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If all the MCU characters were given equal strength, speed and durability... who would be the best fighter?

No powers and no armor. Exception for those who need their power to properly function (like Daredevil's senses).

Fights would be a mix of h2h and melee weapons in an arena setting. One on one, round robin style tournament. Who would end up as the top 3?

Black Widow would rape the majority with equalized stats.
Thor is more versatile with mele weapons tho

Problem with BW is she really hasn't been tested much against quality opponents, which is why I've always been hesitant to mark her up so high.

Daredevil, Melinda May, Iron Fist

Black Widow, Melinda May, Agent Ward

Probably Stick, or Daredevil.

Elektra is actually better than Iron Fist my bad
And lol Black Widow has hardly any feats fighting skilled people

It should be noted that a number of MCU fighters have managed to match up against stronger/more durable opponents due to their skill.

Cap vs. IM, Cap vs. Ultron, Cap vs. Spiderman
Daredevil vs. Black Sky
Thor vs. Hulk, Thor vs. Hela
Melinday May vs. Kree
etc.

They didn't necessarily win these matches but they were able to put up enough of a fight due to their skill.

On the other hand, the few times Black Widow went up against physically superior opponents (Bucky and Crossbones) she was hardly able to put up a fight.

Well her main attack on Rumlow was literally useless against him. Then he threw her before she could change tactics.

And Bucky simply ignored her hits.

Originally posted by KingD19
Well her main attack on Rumlow was literally useless against him. Then he threw her before she could change tactics.

And Bucky simply ignored her hits.

Well yeah, sure. Just saying she still doesn't have as impressive a showing as the others who managed to put up more of a fight despite being outmatched.

The Netflix writers really seem to want to ramp Matt's skill up, especially for Defenders. Not just via feats (like being able to fight multiple centuries-old ninja masters at once, somewhat holding his own against Black Sky etc.), but via dialogue as well. We've now had Elektra, Stick and Iron Fist (via agreeing with Stick) saying that Matt is one of the best fighters any of them have ever encountered, and these are three people who have spent their lives surrounded by fighters.

That being said, purely in human terms, there are a couple of high-tier SHIELD agents who operate on that same level IMO.

Daredevil is in the top three for sure.

Someone who I consider a bit of a wildcard is Stick. Because Stick in The Defenders >>> Stick as shown on Daredevil.

He lost H2H to Matt in S1.
He lost with swords against pre-Black Sky Elektra in S2.
He nearly killed Black Sky Elektra in The Defenders, during a sword fight, but hesitated at the end.

So, either Stick's been holding back (which might be the case, considering he has previously said that Matt and Elektra are the closest thing he has to family), or the writers just randomly amped him for the show.

And what makes it so impressive is the guy is old as shit, and doesn't have the benefit of magical rejuvenation juice, like the Hand guys do.

Black Widow
Gamora
Valkyrie

Wow...All girls!

I think that perhaps Widows biggest claim to fame is that she's hyped to be solidly better than May or Ward.

Daredevil is definitely in. Elektra is probably in as well since I recall her being near to DD and getting better in Defenders. Then its Widow, Stick or Gamora most likely.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think that perhaps Widows biggest claim to fame is that she's hyped to be solidly better than May or Ward.

Daredevil is definitely in. Elektra is probably in as well since I recall her being near to DD and getting better in Defenders. Then its Widow, Stick or Gamora most likely.

I don't think it was ever said anywhere that Widow was a better fighter than May or Ward.

I remember the first season made a big deal that May was more or less the next best fighter after Widow and Hawkeye in Shield and Ward at the end brags to her that he could probably give Rominov a run for her money if he was serious.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I remember the first season made a big deal that May was more or less the next best fighter after Widow and Hawkeye in Shield and Ward at the end brags to her that he could probably give Rominov a run for her money if he was serious.

If you can provide quotes that would be helpful. Because the only thing I remember is numerous mentions of Black Widow being the best spy or top agent. That doesn't mean she's the best fighter. Even Hawkeye said that Widow is a spy, not a soldier.

Equalizing stats, Widow is First Team All Skill. Then probably Elektra. DD relies on radar, Danny Rand is weak sauce, no fist means no wins, Dd showed him whats up. I would actually argue for Nobu for the top three.

Originally posted by FrothByte
If you can provide quotes that would be helpful. Because the only thing I remember is numerous mentions of Black Widow being the best spy or top agent. That doesn't mean she's the best fighter. Even Hawkeye said that Widow is a spy, not a soldier.

I briefly checked out some versus threads and I saw mention that Ward's combat scores were second to Widows and he and May were pretty much even in their fights. May apparently has more black belts then Widow but Nat wasn't exactly trained in a dojo so meh.

Also apparently May whooped a guy who almost killed Hawkeye so that does reflect well on her. Though Widow >> Hawkeye in h2h as well. And Coulson wanted her to work with him on the Avengers Initiative before she requested desk duty. Its unclear If that's just as an agent or as an Avenger though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I briefly checked out some versus threads and I saw mention that Ward's combat scores were second to Widows and he and May were pretty much even in their fights. May apparently has more black belts then Widow but Nat wasn't exactly trained in a dojo so meh.

Also apparently May whooped a guy who almost killed Hawkeye so that does reflect well on her. Though Widow >> Hawkeye in h2h as well. And Coulson wanted her to work with him on the Avengers Initiative before she requested desk duty. Its unclear If that's just as an agent or as an Avenger though.

I don't recall any mention of black belts or combat scores in AoS regarding Black Widow. It would be nice if we could get the entire quote so we don't take the conversation out of context.

Wasn't it brought up in an early episode of AoS that Widow was perceived to be better than her? I cant remember the exact quote, but I thought they alluded to that.

Originally posted by tkitna
Wasn't it brought up in an early episode of AoS that Widow was perceived to be better than her? I cant remember the exact quote, but I thought they alluded to that.

I remember ot being mention Natasha was the better agent, not the better fighter or combatant.

As to the telepath, from what I can recall, she landed all of 1 hit when she "just acted" instead of thought, and was getting whooped and danced around throughout the rest of the fight.

Now, give her a fresh leg and remove the TP, and it would likely be a different story. But let's not pretend like May was getting anything other than her ass kicked by the telepath.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Equalizing stats, Widow is First Team All Skill. Then probably Elektra. DD relies on radar, Danny Rand is weak sauce, no fist means no wins, Dd showed him whats up. I would actually argue for Nobu for the top three.

How are you judging Elektra here? Based on DD s2? Because if you are going to exclude Matt based on senses (even though he has successfully beaten people with abilities tailor-made to counter said senses i.e. the Hand), Black Sky Elektra is excluded as well, as she had not only super senses (as shown when she killed 10 Hand ninjas in total darkness), but superhuman stats as well.

On the topic of May, she hasn't fought Daisy for some time now but it's possible that Daisy might have exceeded May in skill. Daisy has had better feats these last few seasons than May had.

To be fair, the Kree on AoS are kind of weak compared to some we've had in the past. Human level punches hurt them and send them reeling, and they don't even seem to have that much of a strength advantage either. Hell, it took a supposed elite Kree warrior with breaching gear and explosives longer to get through a concrete wall than Luke Cage can with his fists. Or even Elliot Randolph for that matter (the middle-aged Asgardian short-ass).

In contrast, we've had guys like Ronan no-sell hits from Drax and, in return, punch Drax so hard that he flew like 30 feet into an solid metal wall, leaving a huge dent. I have a really tough time seeing Daisy, May, Mack, Coulson etc. bugging Ronan with their hits.

They've basically been given the fodder treatment, which often happens in shows. Whenever a group of villains or bad guys become a main enemy, they get watered down so that the protagonists can fight large numbers of them across a season and still come out on top. Don't get me wrong. Beating them is still a good feat. But not as good as it would have been in the past.

Yeah but Daisy also has that fight against the LMD's and against Ghost Rider, and she took care of Kree easier than May... though that's probably because May is injured.

Oh Daisy is definitely a top fighter. She is one of the high-end SHIELD people I mentioned earlier. The LMDs were more impressive than the current Kree are though IMO. I could honestly see Mack taking one of the current Kree in pure H2H, where I can't see him taking an LMD without his shotgun/axe or some kind of environmental tool.

I've been out of touch with AoS but it sounds like Daisy has really moved up in terms of fighting ability.

As for this thread if this were based exclusively on skill and whatnot I think the top 3 skilled fighters in the MCU would be in the following:
1. Matt
2. May
3. Stick

Which I find funny as I think Danny, Natasha, and Gamora should be on the list but at this point are simply lacking in feats against quality opponents with respect to their own skill. Its especially irksome in Black Widow's case after having 5 films worth of stuff yet still nothing that really sticks out...in terms of martial prowess.

Problem for Natasha is she is a relatively small name in the Avengers compared to the others. So, when it comes to getting cool fighting feats and such, it's likely going to go to Cap or one of those characters instead of her. And considering the huge cast for Infinity War, I don't see much changing there.

However, if her solo film, which has been in talks for years now, ever gets going, she might get some better feats.

But yeah, I would say Daisy is easily the most powerful member (overall) of the current SHIELD roster. Some of the best H2H feats in the group at this point, plus straight-up superpowers. I guess Yo-Yo could blitz her if it really came down to it, but that's not really representative of fighting prowess.

Would figure that in possibly Part 1 of one of the biggest movies in the MCu would finally give Black Widow something to do since she hasn't really had a true moment to show off just how good she's supposed to be.

If Daisy really is that good then I could see her being swapped out for May possibly for my list anyway.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
They've basically been given the fodder treatment, which often happens in shows. Whenever a group of villains or bad guys become a main enemy, they get watered down so that the protagonists can fight large numbers of them across a season and still come out on top. Don't get me wrong. Beating them is still a good feat. But not as good as it would have been in the past.

It's the The Law of Inverse Ninja Strength.

its very much in line with the kree from the comics though who are only twice as strong as humans

and ronans extreme strength could have been his battle suit also like the comics no?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I briefly checked out some versus threads and I saw mention that Ward's combat scores were second to Widows and he and May were pretty much even in their fights. May apparently has more black belts then Widow but Nat wasn't exactly trained in a dojo so meh.

Also apparently May whooped a guy who almost killed Hawkeye so that does reflect well on her. Though Widow >> Hawkeye in h2h as well. And Coulson wanted her to work with him on the Avengers Initiative before she requested desk duty. Its unclear If that's just as an agent or as an Avenger though. Hawkeye was beating BW in Civil War iirc.

Not sure why you rate her way above him.

Thor
Thor
Thor

Isn't that right froth?

1. Black Widow/ Captain America.
2. Gamora/Valkerie/Lady Sif/ Agent May/Hawk Eye
3. Thor, Matt, other.