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The Heart of the Force vs The Wise Sage

The Rules:

10 Feet Apart

The Location is Muunilinst

The Judges: EmperorDMB, XSUPREMEXSKILLZ, The_Tempest


This will be fun...

Colorful OP.

Should be fun.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Colorful OP.

Should be fun.

Blame the color on yourself. You rushed me.

If anyone but Ant would do this it would be suicidal tbh. Good luck you two.


Well, ILS will never respond though so yeh

Brace yourselves. It has begun. A darkness that hasn't been seen since the departure of the Supreme Lord Nai.

Ant, you can go first.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Well, ILS will never respond though so yeh

You thinking of DC.

ILS is the new DC.

I am going to enjoy this tbh.

ILS won't.

can i be a judge
i am friend of both parties

I hereby swear on all that is Holy; Hummus, Molymeme, The Church of Sheev itself, as well as Ugandan Knuckles and the Wu-Tang Clan - that I will respond in full to any of Ant's concerns and take them seriously.

https://i.imgur.com/ha2UACQ.png

ILS won't respond and will concede. He's weak.

To clarify, this debate will take place after the agreed-upon debate between Ellimist and myself.

Sounds gewd boi.

"I am not a debater."
"Debating Legends is pointless."



Nah just kidding this is cool.

Grind his dreams to dust, ILS

This might be a dumb question but what does CaV mean?

It's originally a Comic Vine term meaning "Challenge a Viner."

It's a 1v1 debate.

Cool thanks

Aren't there any CaV based on fan works?

Reading a story is more entertaining than watching two guys ripping each other's balls off.

Plagueis wins.

Originally posted by Trocity
It's originally a Comic Vine term meaning "Challenge a Viner." I always thought it meant "Cast a Vote."

bump

Plagueis is Ventress level, so above Revan

The best debater debating his not best character vs the second best debater debating his best character. Should be interesting.

Plagueis rapes.

Votes?

Revan wins.



Your turn, member ILS.

Plagueis lost half his face to assassins and the force let he and his Apprentice unbalance it with months of prep. What does Revan have that compares?

Originally posted by Jaggarath
Revan wins.



Your turn, member ILS. Revan has no counter to midichlorian manipulation

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Revan has no counter to midichlorian manipulation

As if he'd be able to call on that while in the middle of a high speed battle.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
As if he'd be able to call on that while in the middle of a high speed battle. Where was it said he can't?

He already did it successfully against an infinite superior foe to Revan lol

Veruna > Revan?

My predictions were accurate ( as always ). This IS highly interesting :>

Doesn't Revan know Dark transfer, though? I remember Legends, or DA66 posted a statement with Revan reviving some people.

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Revan has no counter to midichlorian manipulation
If the ability's as you describe, I imagine Plagueis would have used it offensively against Sidious.

Or are you saying Revan can't offensively inflict damage on Plagueis? If that's the case, do you think Plagueis can regenerate his midichlorians faster than a lightsaber sweeping across his neck - in the hypothetical scenario Revan does do that?

Originally posted by Jaggarath
If the ability's as you describe, I imagine Plagueis would have used it offensively against Sidious.

Or are you saying Revan can't offensively inflict damage on Plagueis? If that's the case, do you think Plagueis can regenerate his midichlorians faster than a lightsaber sweeping across his neck - in the hypothetical scenario Revan does do that? How did I describe it? Plagueis "stopped short of defending himself" against Sidious out of bravado so I'm not sure I understand your point.

I don't think I said that either.

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
How did I describe it? Plagueis "stopped short of defending himself" against Sidious out of bravado so I'm not sure I understand your point.

I don't think I said that either.
To clarify in order to properly rebut or agree with, you're arguing Plagueis choose to die rather than use midichlorian manipulation offensively against Palpatine?

If not, can you tl;dr your case for midichlorian manipulation in two-three sentences, since it's hard to discuss when you're being terribly vague?

Originally posted by Jaggarath
To clarify in order to properly rebut or agree with, you're arguing Plagueis choose to die rather than use midichlorian manipulation offensively against Palpatine?

If not, can you tl;dr your case for midichlorian manipulation in two-three sentences, since it's hard to discuss when you're being terribly vague? The text made clear that, from Sidious' perspective, Plagueis was confident in his invincibility and simply chose to replenish himself with midichlorian manipulation rather than defend himself.

Sure. Plagueis asks Revan's midichlorians to suffuse into the cosmic Force, they start, and just like that Revan is well on his way to dying. Meanwhile Plagueis fights him in other ways. On top of that he can replenish himself of some injuries should he sustain them.

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
The text made clear that, from Sidious' perspective, Plagueis was confident in his invincibility and simply chose to replenish himself with midichlorian manipulation rather than defend himself.
Doesn't answer my question.

Please explicitly state whether or not you think Plagueis choose to die rather than offensively attack Sidious with MM.

Originally posted by Jaggarath
Doesn't answer my question.

Please explicitly state whether or not you think Plagueis choose to die rather than offensively attack Sidious with MM. Oh, okay:



No, I did not make that argument.

Why do you think Plagueis didn't use MM offensively against Sidious, then?

Who knows?

Do you think there's at least a 25% possibility it's because MM isn't effective against a being more powerful / with greater willpower?

I'd need to see some evidence for that.

> Anyone brings up something Revan can't handle

Ant: Do you know he has good willpower?

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
I'd need to see some evidence for that.
The fact Plagueis doesn't use it against Sidious suggests it's at least possibility, lol.

Originally posted by Jaggarath
The fact Plagueis doesn't use it against Sidious suggests it's at least possibility, lol. Why is that?

Because it's reasonable to think Plagueis would use his most OP weapon to destroy someone trying to kill him that he otherwise can't kill.

The guy could barely knock furniture over at the time so I don't see your point...?

Why not use it at the beginning?

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
The text made clear that, from Sidious' perspective, Plagueis was confident in his invincibility and simply chose to replenish himself with midichlorian manipulation rather than defend himself.

Yes, but "defend himself" can mean different things. "Defend himself" doesn't necessarily preclude counter-attack.

This is why I tried to clarify if you thought "defend himself" includes counter-attack by asking you that earlier question, but you basically said you don't think it includes counter-attack.

You seem to be contradicting yourself terribly or being unnecessarily utterly vague about your concludes for no reason, but maybe you can explain.

He stopped short of defending himself... As in he took on Sidious' lightning without shielding himself or fighting back. As stated in the book.

>dude deliberately doesn't defend himself against his attacker to prove he's invincible
>but he'd totally have killed his attacker ASAP to save himself if he could

Where's the contradiction Ant?

UUHAN UUHAN

CONGREGATION CONGREGATION

I think ILS is saying that the alcohol gave him a sense of bravado that prevented Plagueis from making the smartest choices when it came to defending against Sidious's attacks.

Or, because in order to manipulate Sidious' midi-chlorians he'd have to override Sidious' will over them, he didn't even try because his apprentice's willpower exceeded his own?

Originally posted by Jaggarath


Yes, but "defend himself" can mean different things. "Defend himself" doesn't necessarily preclude counter-attack.

This is why I tried to clarify if you thought "defend himself" includes counter-attack by asking you that earlier question, but you basically said you don't think it includes counter-attack.

You seem to be contradicting yourself terribly or being unnecessarily utterly vague about your concludes for no reason, but maybe you can explain.

Or maybe It is easier to just use MM on yourself than use it offensively on others and given the state Plagueis actually in, he simply chose to use the easiest course of action to save himself there. You can come up with any explanation to justify it because Plagueis being drunk and injured can be excused for not choosing the most logical course of action even if what he did was seemingly not logical which you haven't proved

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Or maybe It is easier to just use MM on yourself than use it offensively on others and given the state Plagueis actually in, he simply chose to use the easiest course of action to save himself there. You can come up with any explanation to justify it because Plagueis being drunk and injured can be excused for not choosing the most logical course of action even if what he did was seemingly not logical which you haven't proved

Nah, it's actually easier to use it on others (which is why Plagueis' feat of using it on himself is so insane). My explanation remains the most plausible one and in-line with the mechanics of midi-chlorian manipulation.

Everything Azronger says, it is sad. . .

Originally posted by NewGuy01
>dude deliberately doesn't defend himself against his attacker to prove he's invincible
>but he'd totally have killed his attacker ASAP to save himself if he could

^ also, Palpatine himself had at least some measure of control over midichlorians, so it probably isn't as simple to sever Sidious as it would be to do it to someone who is both unfamiliar with the technique and less powerful.