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Setting: Parthenon, Athens

Starting disance: 100 feet


Who wins?

Exar Kun

Then Zeus appears and solos them both

Joruus'C'baoth is>them?

Caedus.

Caedus.

Exar Kun wrecks.

Lol.

It's not even debatable. He's arguably not even above Vader.

Luke's own statements back up the interpretation of the backcover quote referring to power in the Force tbh. And Vader rivals/surpasses Kun depending on your interpretation of some of his feats.

Kun.

Originally posted by Naugrim
Luke's own statements back up the interpretation of the backcover quote referring to power in the Force tbh. And Vader rivals/surpasses Kun depending on your interpretation of some of his feats.

Vader has nothing comparable to Kun. Samappo tried that and he's yet to respond.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Vader has nothing comparable to Kun.

lawl

Give me a single Vader feat that Kun hasn't replicated or beaten, I'll be waiting.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Give me a single Vader feat that Kun hasn't replicated or beaten, I'll be waiting.

I'd like to wait for the Vader vs. Revan debate tbh.

Given I've already debunked Vader's much praised TFU II feat then I suspect Ant's not going to make this very enjoyable.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Given I've already debunked Vader's much praised TFU II feat then I suspect Ant's not going to make this very enjoyable.

You mean the frigate feat?

https://dorksideoftheforce.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/319/files/2015/12/anakin-two.jpg

Exactly. The fact that his fight with Luke took that much out of him makes the feat all that much more impressive.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66


https://dorksideoftheforce.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/319/files/2015/12/anakin-two.jpg

http://blog.gentlemint.com/media/photos/colbert-slow-clap.gif

Yes because he'd just been solidly cowed by Luke and then the lightning killed him, albeit slowly. It's really nothing more than durability, in other words I'm not impressed.

Exar Kun lacked any legitimate injuries after Ood Bnar empowered by Ossus Force blasted him. Ood who has an upper power ceiling of protecting himself from ten continuous supernova waves with his Force barrier and not just surviving, but coming up four millennia later with enough strength to destroy Sedriss XL. A dark Jedi with enough power to genuinely threaten Luke Skywalker.

Meanwhile Kun > Pre-Novel Vitiate > Post-Nathema Vitiate > Nihilus is scaling Vader can't hope to contend with.

Exar Kun ~ DE Sidious is also something Vader can't contend with.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes because he'd just been solidly cowed by Luke

What does that have to do with anything?



Even if the lightning did kill him (we'll see in the debate), you're ignoring the part where he walks through the full power of the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history, someone factually above Exar. What has Kun done to match this again?



Yes, because everyone here believes that you would "not be impressed" by Exar Kun walking through any modestly powerful Sith's lightning, and that you wouldn't immediately make a thread about it and bring it up every time Kun showed up in a discussion. You can't possibly accuse others of bias but then look at someone walking through RotJ Sidious's lightning and say "I'm not impressed".



I won't get into more details before my debate with Ant but if you seriously think that a human-sized target getting hit by a supernova from several light-hours away is impressive just because of the word "supernova", you should read up on basic geometry. As it is, this is sub-child Zannah tier.



Why not?

Vader tanks the lightning for all of five seconds and throws him down the shaft. Wow, such feat.

Nah, given Kun's already possessing powers pre-Ulic that Vader's struggling to contend with, I don't need that at all.

The entire area around him turns bright white, it devastates the landscape and reduces 12,000 cities to nothing. Zannah dealt with a firestorm that didn't even kill all the soldiers. That's the worst comparison you've made this year. A new record.

Because Nihilus' feats utterly creams anything Vader ever did.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Vader tanks the lightning for all of five seconds and throws him down the shaft. Wow, such feat.

Yeah, walking through anyone's Force lightning, let alone Palpatine's, for ten seconds clearly isn't impressive.

What does Kun have to compare again?



What?



Way not to engage with the actual point. Anyway, it's not as if it would compare to Vader tanking Starkiller's lightning, which can power a star destroyer-oneshotting cannon.



Lol not sure how this is supposed to be an argument but OK.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes because he'd just been solidly cowed by Luke and then the lightning killed him, albeit slowly. It's really nothing more than durability, in other words I'm not impressed.

Exar Kun lacked any legitimate injuries after Ood Bnar empowered by Ossus Force blasted him. Ood who has an upper power ceiling of protecting himself from ten continuous supernova waves with his Force barrier and not just surviving, but coming up four millennia later with enough strength to destroy Sedriss XL. A dark Jedi with enough power to genuinely threaten Luke Skywalker.

Meanwhile Kun > Pre-Novel Vitiate > Post-Nathema Vitiate > Nihilus is scaling Vader can't hope to contend with.

It actually wasn't the lightning that killed him but the surge of Darkside energy that was released upon Sidious's death. We don't know how badly the lightning injured him if at all.

Yeah, I'm sure a blast which didn't even level the surrounding area contained equivalent power to supernova waves... That was sarcasm in case you couldn't tell, I felt the need to clarify since I know you have trouble distinguishing between your own delusions and reality at times. Regardless, feats Starkiller accomplished casually require far more energy. Unless you've changed your stance on where Galen and Starkiller lie in relation to Vader in recent months, the power Bnar is capable of using and whether or not he used it is irrelevant.

Why not? His handling of Sidious's lightning more then suggests he can contend with such scaling given the aforementioned individuals are TPM Sidious's vast inferiors without considering where they lie in relation to RotJ Sidious.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
You mean the frigate feat?

You realise that; given TFUII power levels don't really differentiate, we see Sheev one-shot Vader and nearly kill him almost as fast as Vader can ignite his lightsaber, right? How is Vader getting one-shotted by Sheev a feat? Am I supposed to be impressed that he doesn't die on contact?



He's confirmed to usurp Nadd's power upon destroying his spirit. A 'great power' that could be felt across the galaxy. Meaning all of those Ommin feats, such as inducing mass rage in a city of millions and one-shotting Nomi with TP, etc., are low-end Kun feats. Then Kun immediately grows more powerful, before unlocking even more power as he mastered Alchemy. All prior to facing Ulic.



These mental gymnastics are glorious.



It's called powerscaling over someone we know via feats and accolades is more powerful than Vader.

Are you referencing a non canon cut scene as evidence? Lol. AP, never change.

None of TFU is canon.

None of Legends is canon. What's your point?

Unless... Holy shit.

Are you trying to claim TFU wasn't canon within the former continuity?

Originally posted by Naugrim
None of Legends is canon. What's your point?

Unless... Holy shit.

Are you trying to claim TFU wasn't canon within the former continuity?

Well it's own continuity might be better way of putting it and it was.

No, I'm inferring you're a moron.

I believe what I actually claimed was that the power levels in TFUII don't change. The Vader and Sheev seen in the Endor DLC would be no different than the ones we see in ROTJ.

I'm still not seeing this majorly impressive feat of Vader not being insta-killed, as, y'know, actually all that great.

Where the fvck are you getting your sources on energy, anyway? A single supernova can caused an energy output 10 billlion, trillion times more powerful than the greatest thermonuclear explosion ever achieved. Which wouldn't just cut a Star destroyer in half, lmfao. This is mind-boggling idiocy.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Well it's own continuity might be better way of putting it and it was.

What are you talking about?

Originally posted by AncientPower
You realise that; given TFUII power levels don't really differentiate, we see Sheev one-shot Vader and nearly kill him almost as fast as Vader can ignite his lightsaber, right? How is Vader getting one-shotted by Sheev a feat? Am I supposed to be impressed that he doesn't die on contact?


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LimpingInsubstantialFlee-max-1mb.gif

Problems:

1. TFUII Vader << RotJ Vader

2. (Here's the kicker) That scene doesn't actually happen in the continuity.

Now, back to the scene that actually happens: stop deflecting and explain what Kun has done to compare.



And none of this scales to RotJ Sidious's lightning or Galen Marek's ISD busting, lol. Inducing mass rage in a city and one-shotting Nomi don't put Exar above Vader, later power growth or nah lmao.



https://media.giphy.com/media/LvVcFbkQajS8M/200.gif

lol you tried to shift away from RotJ Sidious's lightning by invoking a non-canon cutscene, and now you're ignoring feats brought up in the sentences you're quoting with sophistic non-replies. Not sure if the irony is intentional...?



I was trying to ask you to explain your claim, not restate it, lol.

Originally posted by Naugrim
What are you talking about?

Replying to your post.

Originally posted by AncientPower

Where the fvck are you getting your sources on energy, anyway? A single supernova can caused an energy output 10 billlion, trillion times more powerful than the greatest thermonuclear explosion ever achieved. Which wouldn't just cut a Star destroyer in half, lmfao. This is mind-boggling idiocy.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/80/55/518055ce68902287765be56da4490bec.gif

Yes, a supernova releases lots of energy omnidirectionally. That does not mean that Odan several light-hours away has to deal with an appreciable fraction of it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I believe what I actually claimed was that the power levels in TFUII don't change. The Vader and Sheev seen in the Endor DLC would be no different than the ones we see in ROTJ.

I'm still not seeing this majorly impressive feat of Vader not being insta-killed, as, y'know, actually all that great.

Where the fvck are you getting your sources on energy, anyway? A single supernova can caused an energy output 10 billlion, trillion times more powerful than the greatest thermonuclear explosion ever achieved. Which wouldn't just cut a Star destroyer in half, lmfao. This is mind-boggling idiocy.

Except that's clearly not the case since Vader is stated to have multiple confirmed powers growths between TFUII and RotJ and Sidious is constantly gathering more knowledge and power as he gathers knowledge from across the galaxy and continually drains Byss. If you're trying to say that the gap between Vader and Sidious wouldn't change, then refer back to what I said about using non canon events as evidence.

We have no idea the extent to which he was harmed by the lightning if at all tbh. And this was in his weakest state. None of the individuals you mentioned have a feat even close to that in regards to Force shielding.

AP. I'm extremely sorry you don't understand basic math. But shielding a tree sized area from the diluted energy of a wave that has crossed vast distances doesn't equate to tanking the full energy of a supernova. :/

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Replying to your post.

Yes, obviously. I'm asking what you mean when you claim it's not apart of the former continuity.

Originally posted by Naugrim
Yes, obviously. I'm asking what you mean when you claim it's not apart of the former continuity.

Hm? It is apart of the former continuity, I was agreeing with that. I was just saying instead of non-canon, it's in a separate continuity because it's still there, just in a different timeline compared to the current one.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LimpingInsubstantialFlee-max-1mb.gif

Problems:

1. TFUII Vader << RotJ Vader

2. (Here's the kicker) That scene doesn't actually happen in the continuity.

Now, back to the scene that actually happens: stop deflecting and explain what Kun has done to compare.

1.Endor DLC Vader IS RotJ Vader.

2.This isn't relevant. The power levels remain the same.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
And none of this scales to RotJ Sidious's lightning or Galen Marek's ISD busting, lol. Inducing mass rage in a city and one-shotting Nomi don't put Exar above Vader, later power growth or nah lmao

First of all, Vader not instantly dying isn't a feat, unless you're trying to argue that Vader can tank Sheev's lightning outright. Because I'd love it if you did.

Marek didn't actually destroy the ISD. He empowered a cannon that fires ore and the ore itself destroyed the ISD.

The point is that those feats and more, such as one-shotting Vodo from across the galaxy, are already approaching Vader tier. And yet this is nothing compared to what Kun can do after the Ulic duel.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
https://media.giphy.com/media/LvVcFbkQajS8M/200.gif

lol you tried to shift away from RotJ Sidious's lightning by invoking a non-canon cutscene, and now you're ignoring feats brought up in the sentences you're quoting with sophistic non-replies. Not sure if the irony is intentional...?

The lightning one-shotted him and you're claming it's a feat, which is why I'm not taking you seriously right now.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I was trying to ask you to explain your claim, not restate it, lol.

Kun is confirmed to be > Pre-Novel Vitiate prior to major power growth. Post-Nathema Vitiate is confirmed to be > Nihilus in the Revan novel. That's the fact here.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Hm? It is apart of the former continuity, I was agreeing with that. I was just saying instead of non-canon, it's in a separate continuity because it's still there, just in a different timeline compared to the current one.

Ah, gotcha.

Originally posted by AncientPower
1.Endor DLC Vader IS RotJ Vader.

2.This isn't relevant. The power levels remain the same.


Lmfao what the hell are you talking about? It's a hypothetical scene in a hypothetical cut what-if with an unimaginable number of butterfly effects, it bears no relation to what actually happens in RotJ, which contradicts it.



Uh, walking through lightning for an extended stretch of time is a feat, and even if the lightning killed him (it didn't) the point isn't that RotJ Vader > Palpatine, but rather that Vader > Kun. On what basis did you just declare any demonstration that doesn't involve tanking something with no damage can't be used to quantify anything?



Yes, he supplies the needed energy, so it tells us a lot about the energy behind his lightning that Vader tanks on multiple occasions. It's far more energy than Kun, Odan or whoever ever deals with.

(We're talking about the TFUII feat, not the TFUI one)



I keep asking you to explain how this stuff "approaches Vader tier" and you just respond by saying it does, lawl.



Given that even Yoda couldn't do this to a weaker Sidious's lightning, I'm taking it as a "feat", yes. You don't understand what "feat" means.



https://media.giphy.com/media/XsUtdIeJ0MWMo/source.gif

That still doesn't answer my question, ffs. You just repeated yourself, again.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lmfao what the hell are you talking about? It's a hypothetical scene in a hypothetical cut what-if with an unimaginable number of butterfly effects, it bears no relation to what actually happens in RotJ, which contradicts it.

Give me a reason to believe that a DLC with the sole premise of getting involved at Endor is going to drastically alter the power of Vader or Sheev?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Uh, walking through lightning for an extended stretch of time is a feat, and even if the lightning killed him (it didn't) the point isn't that RotJ Vader > Palpatine, but rather that Vader > Kun. On what basis did you just declare any demonstration that doesn't involve tanking something with no damage can't be used to quantify anything?

Except that it had him on his deathbed and his life support systems were crippled. A single source claiming that the burst of Palpatine's death killed him doesn't negate that fact.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yes, he supplies the needed energy, so it tells us a lot about the energy behind his lightning that Vader tanks on multiple occasions. It's far more energy than Kun, Odan or whoever ever deals with.

He went all out and was exhausted by the attempt. Not the same levels of power he was throwing at Vader. But no, it's not even close to a thermonuclear bomb, nevermind even a fraction of a single supernova wave.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I keep asking you to explain how this stuff "approaches Vader tier" and you just respond by saying it does, lawl.

Or how about you provide feats suggesting he's easily beyond mass telepathic manipulation, one-shotting Vodo Siosk-Baas who is evidently > Thon, who could control the massive dark energies of Ambria whilst exhausted? Then we can get to the good stuff.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Given that even Yoda couldn't do this to a weaker Sidious's lightning, I'm taking it as a "feat", yes. You don't understand what "feat" means.

You mean a Yoda who was caught off-guard and otherwise was absorbing Sheev's lightning with unprepared Tutaminis until the collective energies BFR'd him?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
https://media.giphy.com/media/XsUtdIeJ0MWMo/source.gif

That still doesn't answer my question, ffs. You just repeated yourself, again.

You asked how it's an argument, unless you're genuinely brain dead the argument is obvious. Kun scales massively off of Vader.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Give me a reason to believe that a DLC with the sole premise of getting involved at Endor is going to drastically alter the power of Vader or Sheev?


Why would I prefer inventing canon policy about what-ifs over the actual events of RotJ which my feat comes from?



Lmao so what if it's "one source"? It's a valid statement not contradicted by anything that doesn't even stretch one's credulity. I see you using factual claims made in "a single source" all the time, and I now see the desperation leaking out of your non-rebuttals.



I'm referring to the TFUII scene, where there's no evidence he's exhausted by the attempt, whereas he rage-shocks Vader for like a minute.



Wrong. A single star destroyer can reduce a planet's surface to molten slag within hours (see: Base Delta Zeroes) and a shielded ISD can tank another star destroyer's fire for a decent amount of time. It's far more impressive than a thermonuclear bomb.

(You can also just look to Saxton's AotC: Incredible Cross Sections)



It's far more impressive if you do the math (divide total energy by the surface area of a several-light hour radius sphere) or, more directly, if you just look at the intensity of the wave, which is far below the intensity needed to break a shielded ISD in half.



Even Bane scales above Kaan who can do that.



Bane scales above that too, as I'm sure you are familiar with.



Like where you think Exar could walk through RotJ Sidious's lightning? By all means.



He wasn't walking through it, no.



And you still don't give a meaningful reply. How surprising.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Why would I prefer inventing canon policy about what-ifs over the actual events of RotJ which my feat comes from?

Is missing the point your forte?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lmao so what if it's "one source"? It's a valid statement not contradicted by anything that doesn't even stretch one's credulity. I see you using factual claims made in "a single source" all the time, and I now see the desperation leaking out of your non-rebuttals.

One source contradicted by others. Good God, you're dense.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I'm referring to the TFUII scene, where there's no evidence he's exhausted by the attempt, whereas he rage-shocks Vader for like a minute.

He's exhausted by powering the cannon. But thanks for agreeing.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Wrong. A single star destroyer can reduce a planet's surface to molten slag within hours (see: Base Delta Zeroes) and a shielded ISD can tank another star destroyer's fire for a decent amount of time. It's far more impressive than a thermonuclear bomb.

(You can also just look to Saxton's AotC: Incredible Cross Sections)

Firstly, it's a fleet that can do so in hours. A single SD takes a day.

Secondly, it's almost as if the shield wasn't up because it was undergoing repair.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/Lcn0yF1RcLANG/giphy.gif

Thirdly, you're equating two completely different weapons.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's far more impressive if you do the math (divide total energy by the surface area of a several-light hour radius sphere) or, more directly, if you just look at the intensity of the wave, which is far below the intensity needed to break a shielded ISD in half.

A canonically less devastating event incinerated an entire fleet casually. But you're still not accounting for the maths nor the fact that the waves were heading straight for Ossus. Nor was the Star Destroyer shielded, it was undergoing repair.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Even Bane scales above Kaan who can do that.

Kaan manipulated his own followers, Ommin with his first real expression of dark side power turned a city of millions into murderous psychopaths and with utter ease.

Again, this is amateur hour sh!t for pre-Cinnagar Kun.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Bane scales above that too, as I'm sure you are familiar with.

You mean when Zannah amped herself with sufficient energy from Lake Natth to rvpe Bane with tentacles? Again, not even remotely the most impressive thing Kun has prior to fighting Ulic.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Like where you think Exar could walk through RotJ Sidious's lightning? By all means.

Exar could, yes. Like about twenty others could. Because it's not this monumental feat like you're portraying it as.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He wasn't walking through it, no.

No, he was absorbing it and had Sheev panicking before the explosion.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
And you still don't give a meaningful reply. How surprising.

Oh sweetie, I'm just getting started. As soon as you drop the charade that Vader has this immense durability feat, we can get started.

Wasn't RotJ Sidious' Force Lightning what destroyed the Death Star II?

Originally posted by AncientPower
The Vader and Sheev seen in the Endor DLC would be no different than the ones we see in ROTJ.

If you need to resort to citing non canon DLC scenes in video games, you might want to consider just takin an L.

You might want to consider shutting the fvck up.

holy shit.

mad.

Conversing with Kbro is about as useful as debating LeGenD.

OK, we're done here. If you aren't actually going to respond to arguments in any meaningful way, I'll just sit back and let your argumentation continue to drag down the TOR brigade.

Concession accepted.

(A phrase Ant will be repeating soon.)

Are you kidding me? You literally ignored everybody telling you for the last hour that cutscenes from non canon DLC's don't constitute evidence ignored ACTUAL evidence in favor of your own opinion and then willfully plugged your ears when you were told that you don't understand basic math. And you have the gall to accuse someone else of missing the point? I don't think I've ever seen someone as utterly hypocritical or retarded as yourself. Holy shit.

Ell always concedes. Without Azronger the guy just folds like a cheap suit.

Originally posted by Naugrim
Are you kidding me? You literally ignored everybody telling you for the last hour that cutscenes from non canon DLC's don't constitute evidence ignored ACTUAL evidence in favor of your own opinion and then willfully plugged your ears when you were told that you don't understand basic math. And you have the gall to accuse someone else of missing the point? I don't think I've ever seen someone as utterly hypocritical or retarded as yourself. Holy shit.

Even if you ignore Vader getting one-shotted in the DLC, numerous sources state Vader is fatally wounded by Sheev's lightning.

Basic math states that Starkiller charging a weapon to burst through the hull of an unshielded star destroyer doesn't equate to what was factually stated to be the most destructive event the galaxy ever had.

Now go back to irrelevancy sock.

And by the way you ****ing idiot. He's not referring to the ore cannon in TFU he's referring to the Star Destroyer that engaged the Salvation in TFUII. The sad ****ing part is I don't know if you were pretending not to know because you refused to address the point or if it was just out of sheer incompetence.

He's using the ore cannon scene to wank Vader getting immobilised by Starkiller in the end of TFU II. What are you high on?

Holy shit. For my sanity, I'm just going to assume it's incompetence at this point. He's not referring to the ORE CANNON. He's referring to the Salvation's canon which he charged with his own energies.

My bad then, but I'm glad to see how infuriated you are. Please continue amusing me.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Even if you ignore Vader getting one-shotted in the DLC, numerous sources state Vader is fatally wounded by Sheev's lightning.

Basic math states that Starkiller charging a weapon to burst through the hull of an unshielded star destroyer doesn't equate to what was factually stated to be the most destructive event the galaxy ever had.

Now go back to irrelevancy sock.

Please quote me one then.

Please provide evidence that the Star Destroyer in TFUII was unshielded.

You are legitimately the stupidest person I've ever encountered.

Originally posted by Naugrim
Please quote me one then.
i havent been following the debate, nor do i have a quote for this specific instance (havent looked - but will probably get one later on), but i mean there's a 99% probability the quote exists lets be real here lol

Actually, let me be honest here, it's not even that you're especially stupid.

It's just that you're so ****ing confident that you're right, you act like an ass even when you're wrong which makes you look like an utter ****ing chode.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
i havent been following the debate, nor do i have a quote (havent looked), but i mean there's a 99% probability the quote exists lets be real here lol

Tbh it doesn't exist in Az's RT. And he's far more knowledgeable on Sidious's capabilities and sources regarding Sidious then AP.

You're a sock who has hounded me since rebirth, so if you think I actually care to discuss this with you, you're laughably deluded.

But yes I was mistaken regarding which cannon he was referring to. Big fvcking whoop you lobotomy patient.

Originally posted by Naugrim
Tbh it doesn't exist in Az's RT. And he's far more knowledgeable on Sidious's capabilities and sources regarding Sidious then AP.
i mean, im doing homework atm, but ill find you something later

havent been following but please inform on what killed vader if not for sidious' lightning tbh

For AncientPower's benefit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

I honestly don't give a shit what you care to discuss. I'm just pointing that you're wrong so people reading this don't get the impression that you have anything meaningful to say.

But you can't even admit it with any semblance of grace because you're a jaded bitter individual without the ability to interact with any modicum of decency with the rest of the humanity. You're disgusting.

Supposedly the burst upon his death, I'm too lazy to find the quotes stating otherwise because I've had to debate fvcking TFU.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
For AncientPower's benefit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

You do know how close the stars are to Ossus right? Lmfao.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You do know how close the stars are to Ossus right? Lmfao.

Enlighten me.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
i mean, im doing homework atm, but ill find you something later

havent been following but please inform on what killed vader if not for sidious' lightning tbh

"As he watched the agony of his son and the Emperor's glee, Vader finally broke the hold of evil that had suffocated him for so long. Vader grabbed the energy-seething Palpatine and hurled him into the Death Star reactor shaft, where the evil leader was disintegrated. The shock waves of dark power mortally wounded Vader. Luke Skywalker could do nothing for his dying father, the terrible enemy who had saved him in the end." - The New Essential Chronology.

Yeah, I know one quote exists (is it really an IU one i.e. NEC?) stating it's the shock waves, but the script shits on that idea immediately by likening those waves to be mere gusts of wind.

I'd wager at least 90% of all quotes describing the matter state it's Sidious' lightning and not the waves, BTW.

I really ought to go, but I'll be back later tonight with some quotes once done homework.

The Ossus system and the Aurek system are equidescently situated around the Cron cluster. A supernova shockwave has more kinetic energy output than a sun. Incase you need to do the math, that makes an ISD popper look like a firecracker. Ossus was hit ten times successively. Factor in that each successive shockwave has a ripple effect on the ones before it and that output gets even higher and faster. That you're even arguing this is honestly incredible.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
For AncientPower's benefit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law
we just learned that in physics class.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The Ossus system and the Aurek system are equidescently situated around the Cron cluster.

That doesn't tell us how far away it is lol.



LMFAO kinetic energy is a minuscule fraction of the content of either (assuming you mean the sun's per second output as your statement is otherwise nonsensical), but I'm well aware that supernovas are very energetic. The issue here is that if Ossus were as far from its sun as we are from ours, Odan would only have experienced about 1 ten thousand billion billionth of the energy, lawl.



Yeah, that I'm even arguing with someone who tries to lecture me on "the math" but make incoherent statements like "a supernova shockwave has more kinetic energy output than a sun" is honestly incredible.

Caedus. Pretty decisively.

Ellm, you can just spam that Grevious is planetary if this thing keeps spamming that because Ood managed to withstand a portion of the uniformly distributed shockwave that is approximately equal to to his surface area, it somehow proves that it is anything more impressive for him than him being capable of force deflection.

Whats more funny is that Ood is actually more powerful than Kun when amped by Ossus.

"this thing"

>Respect for LotL drastically increases.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yeah, I know one quote exists (is it really an IU one i.e. NEC?) stating it's the shock waves, but the script shits on that idea immediately by likening those waves to be mere gusts of wind.

quote me on that when you have time

semantics, but shouldn't we consider redemeed vader, Anakin?

Obviously some things changed as the Emperor's body didn't spin or arc when it fell down. So this is far from capable of dismissing the source presented before. It would have to be other sources confirming the opposite of that source.

The Ood Bnar Supernova was calculated a while ago, said feat was him only enduring a dozen gigatons iirc. Since the Supernovae are omnidiectional explosions the energy released is scattered. Factor in distance and Bnars size, he is obviously not taking all that energy. Plus, Kun wouldn't scale from him simply because we don't know how said fight would go. Bnar pushed him away a bit, Kun didn't want to waste time fighting him thanks to thr Nova. Completely unknown.

Kun can be put above Vader depending how you interpret Lukes quote in the Hand of Thrawn Duology, but Vader scaling from Starkiller II is definitely better than Bnars scaling.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I won't get into more details before my debate with Ant but if you seriously think that a human-sized target getting hit by a supernova from several light-hours away is impressive just because of the word "supernova", you should read up on basic geometry. As it is, this is sub-child Zannah tier.


https://fi.somethingawful.com/safs/smilies/6/6/chloe.001.png

Jesus, I'm the biggest Zannah backer on this site and even I think its completely insane to compare that attack to a supernova.

If you're sufficiently distant, the effects of a supernova could end up being diminished to the firestorm that Zannah repelled as a kid, or even less.

It's all pretty ambiguous unless we have actual specifications for the distance from the supernova, or at least other effects experienced on the planet or something?

As AP said it vaporised every city on the planet, on top of smashing several nearer planets to pieces and was described as the most devastating thing the galaxy had ever seen. Its not like it was just a normal supernova, it was a cluster of 10 suns. Whereas with the Thought Bomb not only did others survive intact but even parts of trees weren't totally destroyed.

The thought bomb was only localized to the caves.

Sorry, I meant the Firestorm ritual thing Bane helped them perform.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kun is confirmed to be > Pre-Novel Vitiate prior to major power growth. Post-Nathema Vitiate is confirmed to be > Nihilus in the Revan novel. That's the fact here.

Actually, when Kun was confirmed the darkest power in the galaxy, it was post-Nathema because the Ritual took place in 4999 BBY whereas Kun's rise to power happpened in 3995-3996(from an in-universe perspective)

Also nowhere it is said that post-Nathema Vitiate>Nihilus. The Exile only said that the ritual must have made Vitiate stronger than how he was before the ritual. It was a description relative to Vitiate's own power.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Actually, when Kun was confirmed the darkest power in the galaxy, it was post-Nathema because the Ritual took place in 4999 BBY whereas Kun's rise to power happpened in 3995-3996(from an in-universe perspective)

Also nowhere it is said that post-Nathema Vitiate>Nihilus. The Exile only said that the ritual must have made Vitiate stronger than how he was before the ritual. It was a description relative to Vitiate's own power.

What are you talking about? None of this makes sense.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
1. That's because Sidious' Force lightning isn't as potent as people claim it to be?

We saw it used on Windu, and it didn't do to him any considerable damage.
Sidious can turn people into pile of bones only when he is in the presence of a dark side nexus(e.g: Kalakar Six)

Weaker than he'd ever been

Because he just got a beat from his son and the emperor's lightning damaged his life support apparatus?

You didn't even read the full quote... He hadn't even been hit by the lightning prior to the timeframe that statement was covering.

Once he lifted up the emperor, the lightning damaged his life support system and thus resulted in his death.

Originally posted by AncientPower
What are you talking about? None of this makes sense.

Umm, why?
It is well known that the Nathema ritual happened before Kun's rise to power.

Originally posted by Nephthys
https://fi.somethingawful.com/safs/smilies/6/6/chloe.001.png

Jesus, I'm the biggest Zannah backer on this site and even I think its completely insane to compare that attack to a supernova.

Well I know you're not the biggest on math Neph. Regardless, whether it's actually sub "child Zannah" isn't relevant to the point.

Originally posted by Nephthys
As AP said it vaporised every city on the planet, on top of smashing several nearer planets to pieces

Yeah...so sub-shielded-ISD when you're only talking about the cross-sectional area of a human-sized target (Odan Urr).



Not relevant to the specific amount of damage Odan had to injure.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Once he lifted up the emperor, the lightning damaged his life support system and thus resulted in his death.

He's stated to be "weaker then he's ever been" prior to lifting up Vader...

Kun wins agains the guy who get beaten by mandalorians.

Originally posted by Naugrim
He's stated to be "weaker then he's ever been" prior to lifting up Vader...

Sidious lifts up Vader, wtf?!

Caedus>a tree so we'll go with him.

Exar>Mandalorian iron, so we go with him.

Caedus did shatter beskar casually, true.

Really good post member Freedumb Nadd!

Because shatterpoint = raw strength.

Who said it was? Are you feeling well?

Caedus only shattered beskar using shatterpoint.

Yes, he did.

I see you read the book also.

Trollcity - funny member. He failed to realize I was talking about Kun's physical strength. And he calls me dumb.

The point was Caedus is beyond a tree. Kun's vaunted strength didn't amount to much against a propped up log.

And yes, Freedumb, I did call you that.

Shatterpoints ability allows you to find weaknesses in an object and exploit them. It doesn't require much physical strength. Also Kun broke a holocron with bare hands: these devices are designed to endure the passing of time. .

You really are dumb.


Yikes...

So what's with this retarded claim that Ood only has to tank energy equal to his surface area. Because first of all, it's TEN supernovas. The shockwave in reference shattered planets that were only marginally closer to the event. Event ten billion billionth of that energy is still more impressive when the energy output of a single supernova is ten billion trillion times more powerful than a Tsar bomh. Ten of those in succession is completely off the fvckin' charts.

Ok, Trollcity.

Originally posted by Trocity
Yes, he did.

I see you read the book also.

She(?)

Has a point Troc. Darth Caedus uses a technique that's specifically meant to get around the strength of a material to break it, a material that Novice Jedi Exar Kun smashes with his raw might.

And Caedus isn't > a tree either. He is at best > a plant.

Originally posted by AncientPower
So what's with this retarded claim that Ood only has to tank energy equal to his surface area. Because first of all, it's TEN supernovas. The shockwave in reference shattered planets that were only marginally closer to the event. Event ten billion billionth of that energy is still more impressive when the energy output of a single supernova is ten billion trillion times more powerful than a Tsar bomh. Ten of those in succession is completely off the fvckin' charts.

In conclusion: Exar Kun was badangerous.

Kun does one-shot the spirit of Freedumb Nadd though, its not all bad for the Kunt.

Originally posted by Trocity
The point was Caedus is beyond a tree. Kun's vaunted strength didn't amount to much against a propped up log.

And yes, Freedumb, I did call you that.

A tree with an impenetrable barrier and which in a far weaker state blasted back Luke Skywalker and disintegrated Sedriss. This was pre-prime Kun, who has a few months more growth before he's confirmed to be by far more powerful than any one other Jedi besides himself. Which includes Ood.

Doeth it mean Exar Kun>Luke Skywalker?

Originally posted by Conty
She(?)

Has a point Troc. Darth Caedus uses a technique that's specifically meant to get around the strength of a material to break it, a material that Novice Jedi Exar Kun smashes with his raw might.

And Caedus isn't > a tree either. He is at best > a plant.


Caedus can feign defeat and as Kun's jacked manly strong arm comes down for the killing blow, he will conjure his third arm and punch him right in the sack.


Wait is this Vader+ tier Kun prior to 3 massive power growths or is it hindered, weakened prior to Sith holocron and massive power growth Kun?

Nah, they both got thrown back, though arguably Luke had a prepped defense against it and Kun had at best a lesser Force shield ready and was attacked directly.

Originally posted by Trocity
Caedus can feign defeat and as Kun's jacked manly strong arm comes down for the killing blow, he will conjure his third arm and punch him right in the sack.


Wait is this Vader+ tier Kun prior to 3 massive power growths or is it hindered, weakened prior to Sith holocron and massive power growth Kun?

Kun does this whilst he's still a Jedi. He hasn't even actually met Nadd yet.

"Are you a female, Ancient Power? Because I want to profound my dark side studies about you?"
-Freedon Nadd

Don't be that guy.

"I want to access the arcane aspects of the Ancient Power to enrich my Sith knowledge."
-Freedon Nadd

Better.

Bnar only withstood dozens of gigatons from his surface area. Ill link the calculation in a bit.

That would be great.

Neph and AP, you can't keep running from analyzing the supernova feat and trying to use it at the same time, lol.

I just did a fly-by to call you insane, you dummy. Quit imagining arguments with me.

Because you couldn't defend that argument to save your life as anything technical or even conceptually hard would make you screech.

I've already had the calcs done for me and according to him anything touched by the shockwave would be experiencing the equivalent energy of roughly 1,000 Tsar Bombs a second, at the outside, and the shockwave is merely the forefront of energy expelled. The rest of the energy that would dissipate across millennia would still be insanely lethal levels of radiation.

There are so many levels to this that it's not even funny.

Well I eagerly await The Merchant's post. As of now that is, as an intensity feat (and not a long-term durability/endurance one as that doesn't scale to Kun at all) it's not in the same league as the ISD feat, given that a single medium turbolaser from an Acclamator troop transport is about a hundred times more energetic.

You seem to be out of your league on this one and are kinda dodging around with vague non-answers.

You do know we've seen actual turbolaser+ energy hit cities on-screen and that it's nothing like the strength of a Tsar bomb? It took Malak's fleet combined to reduce the populated areas of Taris to a junkyard, which didn't even completely destroy the skyscrapers. Yet that was Rakatan technology and if you've paid any attention to TOR, Rakatan tech levels are so much better that they had flux cannons soloing two fleets of Republic and Imperial ships.

TFUII doesn't happen in the Old Republic era.

Regardless, the ICS's are canon in Legends, and there's a particular quote making this line of inconsistency-arguing moot that I won't reveal before the Revan debate. But if you're going to complain about firepower inconsistencies I'd ask you how Exar Kun ever gets harmed by anything if you think he can tank several dozens of gigatons to the face, and why he even bothers with far weaker rituals or amulets at all, LOL.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Sidious lifts up Vader, wtf?!

Are you really this dense? :/ You know what I was referring to. The quote where it states Vader is at his weakest occurs prior to Vader lifting up Sidious and throwing him down the pit. I'm aware of the typo but because of KMC's editing policy, it's not like I can go back and fix it.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
TFUII doesn't happen in the Old Republic era.

Regardless, the ICS's are canon in Legends, and there's a particular quote making this line of inconsistency-arguing moot that I won't reveal before the Revan debate. But if you're going to complain about firepower inconsistencies I'd ask you how Exar Kun ever gets harmed by anything if you think he can tank several dozens of gigatons to the face LOL.
Irrelevant given the tech gap clearly doesn't close.

Oh I assure you the Revan debate is going to reveal far more than the inconsistencies of Star Wars.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/3faf65a7717f7b8cdf87cd2714d115eb/tenor.gif

Kun's rarely been harmed at all post-Nadd. Though I'm merely equating the power levels of the Jedi he scales massively from.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Irrelevant given the tech gap clearly doesn't close.


Based on what?



LMFAO, so then why doesn't he just one-shot everyone he sees with this continent-wrecking firepower you claim he possesses? Why do we never see it again?

I'm just using your logic here.

Incase you've forgotten, Kun has. But I'll let Ant handle that.

https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/star-wars-feat-ood-bnar-survives-the-cron-cluster-supernovas.22019/

The result was roughly 20 gigatons or 20,000 megatons. Impressive, but a Turbolaser blast from an Acclamator is 200 Gigatons or 200,000 Megatons. Starkiller charging that cannon that split a Star Destroyer in half is far better since iirc a SDs shield is in the petatons. Even its hull can take a volley before penetrated.

Originally posted by The Merchant
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/star-wars-feat-ood-bnar-survives-the-cron-cluster-supernovas.22019/

The result was roughly 20 gigatons or 20,000 megatons. Impressive, but a Turbolaser blast from an Acclamator is 200 Gigatons or 200,000 Megatons. Starkiller charging that cannon that split a Star Destroyer in half is far better since iirc a SDs shield is in the petatons. Even its hull can take a volley before penetrated.

Right, and this is the total yield of a supernova spread over a long timespan, so Odan is experiencing a far less impressive intensity, while Starkiller powers the cannon in a matter of seconds.

Yup, his size plus the Supernovas being omnidirectional in nature he only receives a fraction of a fraction ad infinitum of said energies. That's what was trying to be proven these past pages....

Hopefully the calc explains things better.

Great work guys.

If an Acclamator could hit with 200,000 megatons then how is the superior energy tech of Rakatan ships only destroying a single skyscraper with a dozen shots? The flux cannons of the Emperor's Fortress are inferior tech given that the Interdictors are Star Forge design and yet they were tearing apart two fleets.

Don't even get me started on Eternal Fleet ships using Iokath technology. Three of them had to maintain a barrage of firepower to consume a single Zakuulan city block. Yet a single dreadnought's reactor explosion busted the combined shield of the entire rest of the eternal fleet. Which was no-selling the massed firepower of an Imperial fleet.

There's clearly something off here and it's not me.

Originally posted by AncientPower
If an Acclamator could hit with 200,000 megatons then how is the superior energy tech of Rakatan ships only destroying a single skyscraper with a dozen shots?

I think you just answered your own question. It's clear that they don't possess superior energy tech. At least in regards to their ability to match a Republic era ships's firepower.

Originally posted by AncientPower
There's clearly something off here and it's not me.

This just made it into my sig quotes.

You insist the Rataka have superior tech and scale firepower from that but then insist their firepower is beaten by that of a modern nuclear submarine?

Originally posted by Naugrim
I think you just answered your own question. It's clear that they don't possess superior energy tech. At least in regards to their ability to match a Republic era ships's firepower.

Until you get to the fact that it's stated that a single piece of Rakatan tech can conquer the galaxy through sheer technological prowess.

But anyway, so what's this about Starkiller's cannon feat? Because guess what. It doesn't look like any feat at all.

Does it say anything about firepower? Because if not, it's irrelevant.

Maybe not to you. Lol.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Until you get to the fact that it's stated that a single piece of Rakatan tech can conquer the galaxy through sheer technological prowess.


So you're simultaneously arguing that a single "piece" of Ratakan tech can conquer the galaxy, and that their 300 meter long ships have less firepower than a modern day nuclear submarine?

LOL.

Nah, I'm saying these calcs are off because they've never shown the ability to bring about so much firepower.