DS Sentry Vs PC Fatal Five

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riv6672
http://pm1.narvii.com/6178/9b0e62c8323d75a6bf2f0f575e42de3354ff3a20_hq.jpg

No prep.
No BFR.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/46/e9/f1/46e9f1c4af4a4f880dd86a23a0f31fac.jpg

RealityWarper
DSS stomps. Mismatch.

riv6672
I've no idea who wins, personally, but seeing as you're pretty insane on the subject of Sentry i'm hoping i get confirmation on that.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by riv6672
I've no idea who wins, personally, but seeing as you're pretty insane on the subject of Sentry i'm hoping i get confirmation on that.

And here you go with the personal attacks.

riv6672
Hey, i've read the Sentry/Lucifer thread. I was being kind.
Now, you can threaten to put me on ignore like you just did Zack M, or simply do it, but i'll still be hoping to get confirmation on DSS 'stomp'ing five PC characters that regularly gave arguably the most powerful version of the LoSH Reason to fear.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by riv6672
Hey, i've read the Sentry/Lucifer thread. I was being kind.
Now, you can threaten to put me on ignore like you just did Zack M, or simply do it, but i'll still be hoping to get confirmation on DSS 'stomp'ing five PC characters that regularly gave arguably the most powerful version of the LoSH Reason to fear.

They don't have the feats and the power-sets to beat him.

Zack M
If space worm can KO Sentry, then Validus punched him into oblivion.

riv6672
Originally posted by RealityWarper
They don't have the feats and the power-sets to beat him.
^^^Oh my dear lord you're serious.

Again, not sure who'd win, but statements like that either show your ignorance or your bias.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^Oh my dear lord you're serious.

Again, not sure who'd win, but statements like that either show your ignorance or your bias.

I know PERFECTLY all the characters involved in that match-up.

That's clearly not your case.

Continue your personal attacks. That's the mark of a good debater and pretty much a standard here.

Zack M
laughing out loud

riv6672
Originally posted by RealityWarper
I know PERFECTLY all the characters involved in that match-up.

That's clearly not your case.

Continue your personal attacks. That's the mark of a good debater and pretty much a standard here.
Uh huh.

Because i'm not taking you at face value based on prior posting history just means i know PERFECTLY what happens when you get involved in certain threads.
You have a thin skin, RW.

Post a reply or dont, i really dont care. Unless i hear better arguments than yours, i'll remain undecided.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by riv6672
Uh huh.

Because i'm not taking you at face value based on prior posting history just means i know PERFECTLY what happens when you get involved in certain threads.
You have a thin skin, RW.

Post a reply or dont, i really dont care. Unless i hear better arguments than yours, i'll remain undecided.

Nice Genetic Fallacy...

Damn, the level on debating in here...

I don't care what you think, really.

riv6672
^^^thanks for replying. thumb up

RealityWarper
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^thanks for replying. thumb up

Yeah yeah just to bump your thread where DC fans will say that DC wins while woefully ignoring the ability of one character and highballing/misinterpreting the abilities of the team.

Predictable.

riv6672
Appreciate it. thumb up

You might want to wait a day or two to Bump the thread, though. It doesnt need it yet.

MrMind
validus shoves sentry up his own arse, clenches so hard, diamonds come out

Sin I AM
Validus vs Sentry would be pretty good...maybe EE takes a few. The rest i cant remember

Insane Titan
Validus one shots Sentry.

Prof. T.C McAbe
Originally posted by Insane Titan
Validus one shots Sentry.

thumb up This, especially the PC Version. Horrible matchup for Sentry.

Stoic
I'm really not seeing how they can actually defeat him. This may go against the grain here Riv, but they truly don't have the right power sets to stop him. I mean what are they actually going to do to him? Cut him up? Crush his face? Crush his body? This is the very same guy that ripped open his own head while speaking, which shows that physical pain or physical assaults wouldn't work against him.

If the original story on the Sentry remains without a retcon, Sentry is a solidified concept of Bob's mind. Kind of like a living puppet that if destroyed can immediately reform. Hitting him appears to be like us punching water, it just reforms around our fist.

I can't see how they can defeat him, while I can see him killing the majority of them by tossing them several light years away like he did to Thor.

The Worm was a plot device, it was the only way that the story could end without having DS Sentry effortlessly kill Thor, and Wasp. Goofy ending but that's the way of it. If I were them, I would have had Sentry make an ominous speech, and fly off.

RealityWarper
Sentry put the molecules of the team in orbit on a thought.

/thread

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
I'm really not seeing how they can actually defeat him. This may go against the grain here Riv, but they truly don't have the right power sets to stop him. I mean what are they actually going to do to him? Cut him up? Crush his face? Crush his body? This is the very same guy that ripped open his own head while speaking, which shows that physical pain or physical assaults wouldn't work against him.

If the original story on the Sentry remains without a retcon, Sentry is a solidified concept of Bob's mind. Kind of like a living puppet that if destroyed can immediately reform. Hitting him appears to be like us punching water, it just reforms around our fist.

I can't see how they can defeat him, while I can see him killing the majority of them by tossing them several light years away like he did to Thor.

The Worm was a plot device, it was the only way that the story could end without having DS Sentry effortlessly kill Thor, and Wasp. Goofy ending but that's the way of it. If I were them, I would have had Sentry make an ominous speech, and fly off.

It's PC Fatal Five.

Persuader could probably just cut his soul in two or something stupid. He cut GRAVITY in half, lol. One version cut Raven's soul self, according to the wiki, but meh I don't know enough about that to comment.

riv6672
^^^Yeah, thanks for replying to Stoic. It was a good question.
Persuader's axe is an incredibly haxx, almost cartoonish weapon, and Validus is Powerful to the point of absurdity in hus PC version. These would obviously be the biggest threats. EEs magic was no joke then either, then Tharik/Mano pull rear guard.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's PC Fatal Five.

Persuader could probably just cut his soul in two or something stupid. He cut GRAVITY in half, lol. One version cut Raven's soul self, according to the wiki, but meh I don't know enough about that to comment.

What you see doesn't have a soul. That's what I am saying. The Sentry is a solidified concept. They'd have to get into the pocket dimension that Bob goes to in order to do any damage at all, and that is if he isn't the God of that dimension. We got a glimpse of it when the Avengers fought the Void, and Emma went into that pocket dimension to communicate with Bob. Whatever damage they do, he would simply regen from, or pull himself back together. They'd be fighting a nightmare, which at first may appear to make them look like they were winning until he began knocking them off one at a time.

PC don't mean a thing. They'd have to know how to get to Bob.

riv6672
^^^see, this is what i never understand, when a debate gets to the 'my character can do all these things and your character can do absolutely nothing' stage, why even bother to continue the conversation.

tkitna
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^see, this is what i never understand, when a debate gets to the 'my character can do all these things and your character can do absolutely nothing' stage, why even bother to continue the conversation.

I thought it was interesting that two sides had two different stomps. Lol. There was no in between

meep-meep
Originally posted by tkitna
I thought it was interesting that two sides had two different stomps. Lol. There was no in between

'Merica.

Stoic
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^see, this is what i never understand, when a debate gets to the 'my character can do all these things and your character can do absolutely nothing' stage, why even bother to continue the conversation.

It as RW mentioned. Sentry himself is pretty much invincible, but without the full knowledge of what he has up under the hood. DS Sentry was fully aware, and he showed it on panel. Unless you believe that when he split his head open that it was an illusion? This is probably the biggest reason why Marvel wanted to deep six him. He's too powerful to be interesting. I mean how do you use him in a team environment.

Shit in the current Dr. Strange book, it almost seems as if Marvel is trying to back away from the DS Sentry idea, as we no longer see him. We'll see how it plays out, but from what I know, the only thing that seemed to weaken him as the Sentry (Not DS Sentry) is the Negative Zone. This may not be the case with DS Sentry as he is whole. He is both the Sentry and Void together. The Void was at his strongest when he was in the Negative Zone if you may recall? While Sentry was near ready to pass out.

Hey man, this is the same thing that would happen if you put the Fatal Five up against Doctor Manhattan. They just don't have the tools to deal with the Sentry. Just accept it, like people accept forum Flash beating entire teams before they batted an eye.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Stoic
It as RW mentioned. Sentry himself is pretty much invincible, but without the full knowledge of what he has up under the hood. DS Sentry was fully aware, and he showed it on panel. Unless you believe that when he split his head open that it was an illusion? This is probably the biggest reason why Marvel wanted to deep six him. He's too powerful to be interesting. I mean how do you use him in a team environment.

Shit in the current Dr. Strange book, it almost seems as if Marvel is trying to back away from the DS Sentry idea, as we no longer see him. We'll see how it plays out, but from what I know, the only thing that seemed to weaken him as the Sentry (Not DS Sentry) is the Negative Zone. This may not be the case with DS Sentry as he is whole. He is both the Sentry and Void together. The Void was at his strongest when he was in the Negative Zone if you may recall? While Sentry was near ready to pass out.

Hey man, this is the same thing that would happen if you put the Fatal Five up against Doctor Manhattan. They just don't have the tools to deal with the Sentry. Just accept it, like people accept forum Flash beating entire teams before they batted an eye.

Very good post.

riv6672
Originally posted by tkitna
I thought it was interesting that two sides had two different stomps. Lol. There was no in between
I know.
Kinda defeats the purpose of debating. Why should one side waste time putting forth an argument when the other's just going to respond with 'no'.
Having said that, leaning towards the FF, since they were represented fairly at least.

On to the next thread.

panthergod
yeah, Validus punches him into the beginning of time where Entropy destroys him.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
What you see doesn't have a soul. That's what I am saying. The Sentry is a solidified concept. They'd have to get into the pocket dimension that Bob goes to in order to do any damage at all, and that is if he isn't the God of that dimension. We got a glimpse of it when the Avengers fought the Void, and Emma went into that pocket dimension to communicate with Bob. Whatever damage they do, he would simply regen from, or pull himself back together. They'd be fighting a nightmare, which at first may appear to make them look like they were winning until he began knocking them off one at a time.

PC don't mean a thing. They'd have to know how to get to Bob.
Like I said,'or something'.

It cuts through dimensions as well. As I said, it's pretty haxx, cutting through gravity and magnetic fields (as stupid as that sounds).

Saying it would cut a concept like Sentry isn't far fetched, even if solidified.

abhilegend
Validus oneshots Sentry.

RealityWarper
Sentry rips them in half.

Zack M
Validus punts Sentry's head to tha moon!

Stoic
Originally posted by riv6672
I know.
Kinda defeats the purpose of debating. Why should one side waste time putting forth an argument when the other's just going to respond with 'no'.
Having said that, leaning towards the FF, since they were represented fairly at least.

On to the next thread.

How was it that I didn't represent Sentry properly Riv? Everything that I wrote actually happened on panel. Is it that you don't like what marvel did with the Sentry, or is it that you won't accept it? either way he isn't my creation, I was just stating that he can't die unless he wanted a particular group of characters to believe that he's dead. He's done this from his inception.

Hid his existence by erasing himself from everyone's mind.

Did it again at the end of Siege.

How many times does he actually have to do this before people believe that he can't die? He even brought his dead wife back from death if I recall correctly.

People have always hated the character. Just look at every thread that he's in. The only thing that I read is that he get stomped without any evidence. Meanwhile no one can explain how he will be stomped. Or why he gets stomped.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Like I said,'or something'.

It cuts through dimensions as well. As I said, it's pretty haxx, cutting through gravity and magnetic fields (as stupid as that sounds).

Saying it would cut a concept like Sentry isn't far fetched, even if solidified.

How would Persuader know this? It's like you're drawing straws to see which one will work DS. They will see DS Sentry. They won't even know where to begin in order to stop him from reforming, and all the while he would be taking them out one at a time. How strong is DS Sentry exactly? How do we know that he isn't much stronger than Validus? He casually threw Thor so hard that he traveled over a light year. If that isn't a ridiculous feat of strength, I'm not sure what is?

Unless this was one of those threads that people were supposed to chime in to say the Fatal Five win, because they were from the non canon PC age. In this case, it really isn't good enough.

Reality Warper is getting the raw end of the deal. He's actually brought forth scans showing what the Sentry could do while at a much weaker state in character development. What he did to Owen Reece, and Loki were on panel. Do we ignore it? He either turned Owen's own powers back on him, or overpowered him using molecular control. If you can, pull up all of the scans. Then look at his Celestial feat, look at all of his insane feats. How do they resist being dispersed on a molecular level?

Marvel has obviously slated this guy to be one of the big guns, with only one weakness. Himself.

You don't have to go with anything that I'm writing, but in all fairness, you should check the credibility, and ask yourself how they are supposed to stop him. The axe probably isn't going to cut it, pardon the pun.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
How was it that I didn't represent Sentry properly Riv? Everything that I wrote actually happened on panel. Is it that you don't like what marvel did with the Sentry, or is it that you won't accept it? either way he isn't my creation, I was just stating that he can't die unless he wanted a particular group of characters to believe that he's dead. He's done this from his inception.

Hid his existence by erasing himself from everyone's mind.

Did it again at the end of Siege.

How many times does he actually have to do this before people believe that he can't die? He even brought his dead wife back from death if I recall correctly.

People have always hated the character. Just look at every thread that he's in. The only thing that I read is that he get stomped without any evidence. Meanwhile no one can explain how he will be stomped. Or why he gets stomped.



How would Persuader know this? It's like you're drawing straws to see which one will work DS. They will see DS Sentry. They won't even know where to begin in order to stop him from reforming, and all the while he would be taking them out one at a time. How strong is DS Sentry exactly? How do we know that he isn't much stronger than Validus? He casually threw Thor so hard that he traveled over a light year. If that isn't a ridiculous feat of strength, I'm not sure what is?

Unless this was one of those threads that people were supposed to chime in to say the Fatal Five win, because they were from the non canon PC age. In this case, it really isn't good enough.

Reality Warper is getting the raw end of the deal. He's actually brought forth scans showing what the Sentry could do while at a much weaker state in character development. What he did to Owen Reece, and Loki were on panel. Do we ignore it? He either turned Owen's own powers back on him, or overpowered him using molecular control. If you can, pull up all of the scans. Then look at his Celestial feat, look at all of his insane feats. How do they resist being dispersed on a molecular level?

Marvel has obviously slated this guy to be one of the big guns, with only one weakness. Himself.

You don't have to go with anything that I'm writing, but in all fairness, you should check the credibility, and ask yourself how they are supposed to stop him. The axe probably isn't going to cut it, pardon the pun.

What do you mean,how would they know this?

It's an axe. He cuts things with it. It's not rocket science, lol. He has like one attack, and it uses the axe.

Stoic
He wouldn't actually hit him unless he wanted to be hit by it. If he was hit by it, he would simply reform.

Look at Thor's hammer throw.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111174806/4295485-void+11.jpg

He's pretty damned strong too. Not at all some pushover that many people have attempted to fallaciously paint him as. He's the real deal, and much larger than the Fatal Five are as a collective.

The Sentry is more of a Doctor Manhattan clone, than he is a Superman clone he isn't anything like Superman in the least tbh.


Check out his speed. I wouldn't claim hyperbole on this showing. Imagine how many would then be able to legitimately claim how this is a double standard, and that if we could accept another speed feat from another character, then why not this one as well?

Sentry is moving at this speed effortlessly, and appears to not be affected in the least by high velocities. he could probably go much faster, but Thor wouldn't have been able to survive at those speeds.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/62547/3525600-uncanny+avengers+10.jpg

He even appears to live in the time stream with his statement above in the scan. It was always said that the Sentry lived several seconds into the future as well.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11120/111209450/4489891-3532871-uncanny_avengers_010-018_zpsd55eb96e.jpg

If anyone were to accuse me of trolling at this point, it would be an unwarranted accusation.

Are they as fast as he is? He's capable of doing multiple times FTL speeds.


Sorry if things are a bit out of order. I didn't have much time.

DarkSaint85
thumb up he certainly has the speed to wipe the floor with them.

My initial point, was in answer to your post, which asked if they had any tools to deal with him.

My answer is the Atomic Axe.

Whether they have the speed to utilise this, is another matter.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
thumb up he certainly has the speed to wipe the floor with them.

My initial point, was in answer to your post, which asked if they had any tools to deal with him.

My answer is the Atomic Axe.

Whether they have the speed to utilise this, is another matter.

It wouldn't work because Bob could make whatever he wanted them to see from his mind, into a solidified concept that they can interact with in the physical universe.

What you see, isn't what is with this guy., which is what most people don't seem to get. You have to really go back and delve into what Marvel created when they created this guy. He will likely be hanging out with Franklin Richards in the future, if he truly is to become a universal protector he'd be protecting it from things that the Thought Robot would combat. He was talking about protecting the Universe from higher up the chain despotic cosmic beings out to destroy reality.

They really have nothing to defeat him with DS. Seriously, go back and read up on the Sentry. Many people haven't fully understood what Marvel has released. He's pretty much invincible unless you are able to go to Bob's pocket universe and defeat him there. Anything on the outside is a solid projection of his mind. Void, Sentry, Death Seed Sentry. None can be physically vanquished, because they aren't really truly there. Lol. Sentry is messed up for real, but They can't beat him.

quanchi112
Sentry wins.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
It wouldn't work because Bob could make whatever he wanted them to see from his mind, into a solidified concept that they can interact with in the physical universe.

What you see, isn't what is with this guy., which is what most people don't seem to get. You have to really go back and delve into what Marvel created when they created this guy. He will likely be hanging out with Franklin Richards in the future, if he truly is to become a universal protector he'd be protecting it from things that the Thought Robot would combat. He was talking about protecting the Universe from higher up the chain despotic cosmic beings out to destroy reality.

They really have nothing to defeat him with DS. Seriously, go back and read up on the Sentry. Many people haven't fully understood what Marvel has released. He's pretty much invincible unless you are able to go to Bob's pocket universe and defeat him there. Anything on the outside is a solid projection of his mind. Void, Sentry, Death Seed Sentry. None can be physically vanquished, because they aren't really truly there. Lol. Sentry is messed up for real, but They can't beat him.

As I said.

The axe cut through Raven's soul self. It cuts metaphysical stuff, dimensions, gravity, magnetism. It's weird. It cuts things that shouldn't be cut.

Adam Grimes
Any member solos

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
As I said.

The axe cut through Raven's soul self. It cuts metaphysical stuff, dimensions, gravity, magnetism. It's weird. It cuts things that shouldn't be cut.

what are you suggesting that it would cut? DS Sentry isn't a soul. He's a concept. You can't compare Raven to him. They aren't remotely alike, nor is he some metaphysical entity like Rune King Thor, he isn't magic, but more along the lines of a Psionic projection or construct, given the power of whatever Bob envisions him to have. They may as well be cutting an ocean of water, because that's exactly akin to how easily he'd reform.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11129/111297632/5720802-4781929-uncannyavengers15d.jpg

Who's soul was he talking about here? His or Bob's? The answer is simple. He is given power by Bob's soul. He doesn't actually possess one. Being a conceptual entity. Go back and look at when the Avengers were trying to defeat the Void. Bob wasn't actually present. He was in his pocket universe like a puppet master while the Void creature was his autonomous puppet. This wouldn't be like the Fatal Five vs Larfleeze. You can hit Larf. Not Bob though.

DarkSaint85
Thats what I'm trying to say.

The axe cuts things that aren't physical.

Gravity has no molecules. No waves. It's a force. There is literally nothing to cut.

It isn't even energy. It's a physical concept

Persuader cut it.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thats what I'm trying to say.

The axe cuts things that aren't physical.

Gravity has no molecules. No waves. It's a force. There is literally nothing to cut.

It isn't even energy. It's a physical concept

Persuader cut it.

Okay so it cuts him? Then he reforms. The Axe will not stop Bob from simply putting the projection back to it's original state. Then there's the speed factor. The question here is who would win? DS Sentry would. He can't lose the life that he doesn't have. He's just a product of Bob's mind. He can be brought back immediately. Can he be killed? Nope

They can't win brother, they don't have the tools to keep him from coming back instantly.

DarkSaint85
He reforms because all the attacks he has met up until now, weren't attacking him on a....whatevsr level it is he exists on.

They've only been attacking him on a physical plane. Punches, blasts, whatever.

The axe is broken enough to attack on a conceptual level, as seen with gravity (which isn't a thing, but a description of the relationship between things or some such ).

Iow, it'll put him down for good.

If you want to argue that he wouldn't have the chance to cut Sentry, due to his superior speed, that's a different argument. Im sure people LIKE galan or whatever have scans of Him reacting to PC kryptonians and daxamites or slicing energy in half, whatever.

But this is similar to the Thanos thread, imo. Speed vs versatility.

And speed wins.

I just don't think the FF lack the ability to hurt him. Assuming they get the chance to.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thats what I'm trying to say.

The axe cuts things that aren't physical.

Gravity has no molecules. No waves. It's a force. There is literally nothing to cut.

It isn't even energy. It's a physical concept

Persuader cut it.

I noticed you state physical concept. He is a Psionic construct, that is not truly there, and can be reformed. He was able to make the entire human race forget that he existed as well? Wouldn't these guys be play things for an entity capable of doing that?

Anyway I don't see how they can stop him. The Axe would cut him and if it were actually capable of doing this he would just reform. I'm not arguing about persuader's Axe. I've read a few comics with the F5 in them.

They're dealing with forces way above their station. Unless a retcon is written that nerfs him down, as of this moment there really is no hard evidence to support them being able to actually defeat him.

Stoic
I'm taking off. Be back later.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by Stoic
I noticed you state physical concept. He is a Psionic construct, that is not truly there, and can be reformed. He was able to make the entire human race forget that he existed as well? Wouldn't these guys be play things for an entity capable of doing that?

Anyway I don't see how they can stop him. The Axe would cut him and if it were actually capable of doing this he would just reform. I'm not arguing about persuader's Axe. I've read a few comics with the F5 in them.

They're dealing with forces way above their station. Unless a retcon is written that nerfs him down, as of this moment there really is no hard evidence to support them being able to actually defeat him.
Dude it literally cuts concepts!
It cuts soul!
Soul is spiritual

Regardless, he will get mine ****ed by the TP here anyways

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
I noticed you state physical concept. He is a Psionic construct, that is not truly there, and can be reformed. He was able to make the entire human race forget that he existed as well? Wouldn't these guys be play things for an entity capable of doing that?

Anyway I don't see how they can stop him. The Axe would cut him and if it were actually capable of doing this he would just reform. I'm not arguing about persuader's Axe. I've read a few comics with the F5 in them.

They're dealing with forces way above their station. Unless a retcon is written that nerfs him down, as of this moment there really is no hard evidence to support them being able to actually defeat him.

Oh I meant it's to do with physics, not that it's a physical 'thing' you can hold.

Gravity is a relationship. A concept. Not a particle, or a wave,or energy, or anything like that. At it's most abstract, gravity is an equation.

And he cut it.

It also responds instantly to his thoughts:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/527137/Previews/3c3be283c7ecff1dedf683ba264048e3._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

Again (this is from his first showing):
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DklWzD4DTDo/WELJ1J3FZKI/AAAAAAAAAjU/259DGGLVkvYxp5ypz9Rsi5PC6O7Yp_ewgCEw/s1600/ADV_352%2BPersuader%2B%2528800x793%2529.jpg

xJLxKing

leonidas
oops wrong thread

cdtm
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AhEeDnfNlec/WELJ401PVDI/AAAAAAAAAjs/EnjfIYVkBlsIPBG3OdiOyV0MPujrWwLRwCEw/s1600/LSH_269%2BPers%2B%2528640x583%2529.jpg

Mon-El is as powerful as Superboy, and this implied it would cut right through him.


There was one story where Persuader failed to cut Mon-El's arm. Resulted in a huge explosion and no damage to him. But I don't think Levitz or any of the major writers did it, so I chalk it up to PIS. The same way Iron Fist failing to even scratch Warhawk ( A character who had an earlier process done that gave Cage his steel hard skin. Main difference being Warhawk looks metal), when he proved he could KO a more powerful Luke Cage (Cage brought down Warhawk in the same story.)

DarkSaint85
Do you have scans of him cutting intangible stuff? The weirder the better

leonidas
didn't he cut time....?

Stoic
Didn't Sentry stop the inertia of Thor's hammer when it was tossed at him? Which really isn't the point here. You guys aren't understanding.

So what if he cut's DS Sentry, what stops DS Sentry from reforming? Why are we stuck in this moment?

Bob's only weakness if it can even be considered a weakness isn't exactly public knowledge. Thor had no idea about what Sentry was, or what he was talking about. he just thought that he was spouting some gibberish as he assumed that the Void had addled his brain.

They would have no idea where to cut. Bob's pocket universe may not even be in the immediate area. So again what is he cutting? If you mean that he would cut DS Sentry, then fine so he cuts right through him, and then DS Sentry immediately reforms which does no damage to Bob, because Bob is not the one being hit, only the solidified concept.

Again we saw Bob in a pocket universe when Emma visited him, while the Void was out in the real world treating all of Earth's heroic teams like they were less than fleas to him. That Void creature was just a solidified concept of Bob's mind. DS Sentry is Bob in full control of his mind, or in a stable state of consciousness. meaning the Void and Sentry are no longer separated, but while still not being Bob, but a concept of how strong his mind has become. Whatever people may think about the character, is their choice, but he isn't weak by any means. He's actually monstrously powerful.

DarkSaint85
That's because he's only been attacked on a physical plane. Hence he could always reform.

This time, if he gets cut,it's not just him who gets cut.

The idea of Sentry,the concept of Sentry,will be cut.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's because he's only been attacked on a physical plane. Hence he could always reform.

This time, if he gets cut,it's not just him who gets cut.

The idea of Sentry,the concept of Sentry,will be cut.

Okay now I get what you're seeing. let me explain it a little better.
If Persuader were to cut Hal Jordan's Light construct, it would not stop Hal from creating another one. now let's say that Hal was creating the constructs while existing in another universe that you can't see and is not close by, how do you ever stop Hal from creating more constructs? This is what Bob does, while also being able to control molecules on or above the level of the Molecule Man, or Firestorm.

That is only a fraction of what these guys would be up against. Sentry was actually stated as being able to live several second into the future. DS Sentry appeared to have been able to enter the time stream itself. But that's not 100% proof positive. The F5 are in over their heads here.

Zack M
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh I meant it's to do with physics, not that it's a physical 'thing' you can hold.

Gravity is a relationship. A concept. Not a particle, or a wave,or energy, or anything like that. At it's most abstract, gravity is an equation.

And he cut it.

It also responds instantly to his thoughts:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/527137/Previews/3c3be283c7ecff1dedf683ba264048e3._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg

Again (this is from his first showing):
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DklWzD4DTDo/WELJ1J3FZKI/AAAAAAAAAjU/259DGGLVkvYxp5ypz9Rsi5PC6O7Yp_ewgCEw/s1600/ADV_352%2BPersuader%2B%2528800x793%2529.jpg

Nice.

JBL
Mon-El stopped that ax with his arm. Zero damage.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
Okay now I get what you're seeing. let me explain it a little better.
If Persuader were to cut Hal Jordan's Light construct, it would not stop Hal from creating another one. now let's say that Hal was creating the constructs while existing in another universe that you can't see and is not close by, how do you ever stop Hal from creating more constructs? This is what Bob does, while also being able to control molecules on or above the level of the Molecule Man, or Firestorm.

That is only a fraction of what these guys would be up against. Sentry was actually stated as being able to live several second into the future. DS Sentry appeared to have been able to enter the time stream itself. But that's not 100% proof positive. The F5 are in over their heads here.

Except the Persuader could just cut his will power.

That's what I mean by haxx.

It's PC silliness here.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by JBL
Mon-El stopped that ax with his arm. Zero damage.

Mon El was nearly KOed by the shaft, he wasn't even hit by the blade.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except the Persuader could just cut his will power.

That's what I mean by haxx.

It's PC silliness here.

I get the PC era crazy stuff, but, and I have read a few old schol LOSh comics with the P5 in it, and noticed that yes he could cut anything with that axe, but I also noticed that he saw what he was striking. In this case he wouldn't be told a thing, or know much more than the Avengers do about Sentry, and how his powers actually work, because they're a mystery to the general population of Earth. Most just view him like people in the DC U view Superman, but he is completely different than Superman in terms of power set.

I just can't see how Persuader is cutting something that he isn't aware even exists. While Bob can turn them all into ashes. That's all that I'm saying here. PC won't save them, and that's how haxx DS Sentry is presently.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
I get the PC era crazy stuff, but, and I have read a few old schol LOSh comics with the P5 in it, and noticed that yes he could cut anything with that axe, but I also noticed that he saw what he was striking. In this case he wouldn't be told a thing, or know much more than the Avengers do about Sentry, and how his powers actually work, because they're a mystery to the general population of Earth. Most just view him like people in the DC U view Superman, but he is completely different than Superman in terms of power set.

I just can't see how Persuader is cutting something that he isn't aware even exists. While Bob can turn them all into ashes. That's all that I'm saying here. PC won't save them, and that's how haxx DS Sentry is presently.

He can't see gravity or magnetic fields.....he cut them just fine. He slashes through dimensions....like Leo said, he cut time (possibly).

He slashes at things and they get cut. That's...just how it is.

Unless you have proof he needs a target to, well,target,that's just speculation on your part.

Again,not saying they win.

Am saying they have the tools to hurt him. Whether they get the chance to, is a diff matter.

riv6672
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He can't see gravity or magnetic fields.....he cut them just fine. He slashes through dimensions....like Leo said, he cut time (possibly).

He slashes at things and they get cut. That's...just how it is.

Unless you have proof he needs a target to, well,target,that's just speculation on your part.

Again,not saying they win.

Am saying they have the tools to hurt him. Whether they get the chance to, is a diff matter.
This is what i meant by haxx, too. Add Validus and EE...it seems a good fight.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He can't see gravity or magnetic fields.....he cut them just fine. He slashes through dimensions....like Leo said, he cut time (possibly).

He slashes at things and they get cut. That's...just how it is.

Unless you have proof he needs a target to, well,target,that's just speculation on your part.

Again,not saying they win.

Am saying they have the tools to hurt him. Whether they get the chance to, is a diff matter.

Like you said before PC silliness as it is. He still had a focus to where he was aiming that axe. in this case he has no idea what he should be striking at, and it's not even a certainty that he'd be able to cut Bob within his pocket universe. It wouldn't be fair to say that the laws of one universe had the right to supersede the laws of another universe.

PC age ran by it's own laws. Persuarder would have no idea where to strike. We both know this. Arguing in circles now.

Not up to doing this. DS Sentry does have the power to end them, if he was able to mess Owen up while only discovering that he had those abilities. DS Sentry would be able to screw Owen up even faster. DS Sentry is well versed with the knowledge of what he can do as opposed to who he was during Siege. Is there a reason why the F5 wouldn't be turned to molecules the moment that this began?

Don't care about the axe any longer. So it can cut him. I don't believe that it stops him from reforming. because it wouldn't, and Bob isn't exactly the type that would tell them either.

leonidas
hmm, feels like some no-limits going on here.... maybe sentry is invulnerable but how exactly does he hurt a guy who is a dozen times more powerful than pc superboy? pc characters bounce off validus like ping pong balls. and who knows what effect his psychic lightning would have on a nut job like sentry. this sentry talk is something else.

stoic what are u basing all these thoughts of sentry on? what do you mean he's not really "there" to be cut?

riv6672
You're speculating again.
I counter with speculation that once cut with that axe, the one you no longer care about but are trying to take off the table, things don't just reform.

Stoic
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, feels like some no-limits going on here.... maybe sentry is invulnerable but how exactly does he hurt a guy who is a dozen times more powerful than pc superboy? pc characters bounce off validus like ping pong balls. and who knows what effect his psychic lightning would have on a nut job like sentry. this sentry talk is something else.

stoic what are u basing all these thoughts of sentry on? what do you mean he's not really "there" to be cut?

Reread all that I wrote. Sentry is a solidified concept of Bob's mind. He can't die because he isn't truly alive in the same sense as a normal human, which is why he can continue coming back from apparent death.

Do you think that the Molecule Man could defeat Val? Well during Siege, Sentry came by the realization that he could do what Owen could. It happened on panel.

Stoic
Originally posted by riv6672
You're speculating again.
I counter with speculation that once cut with that axe, the one you no longer care about but are trying to take off the table, things don't just reform.

And if he turned them all to ash, then what?

Stoic
@Leo, you don't actually have to have no limit to your power in order to defeat the F5.

leonidas
Originally posted by Stoic
Reread all that I wrote. Sentry is a solidified concept of Bob's mind. He can't die because he isn't truly alive in the same sense as a normal human, which is why he can continue coming back from apparent death.

Do you think that the Molecule Man could defeat Val? Well during Siege, Sentry came by the realization that he could do what Owen could. It happened on panel.

do we know this version of sentry retained the knowledge he previously had? didn't seem to exhibit any of those powers.

and could the version of owen sentry beat beat val? i dunno tbh. and true you don't have to have no limits, but the limits you're extending him too are well beyond what we saw this version do afaik... his mental state has ALWAYS been his ultimate governor. because of that, not sure how we can extend something he did (or realized) pre death seed, to this version. it should certainly be a question when we never really saw him use that power set in this version. owen's powers would have come in handy against a celestial, the worm and even thor.

Stoic
Originally posted by leonidas
do we know this version of sentry retained the knowledge he previously had? didn't seem to exhibit any of those powers.

and could the version of owen sentry beat beat val? i dunno tbh. and true you don't have to have no limits, but the limits you're extending him too are well beyond what we saw this version do afaik... his mental state has ALWAYS been his ultimate governor. because of that, not sure how we can extend something he did (or realized) pre death seed, to this version. it should certainly be a question when we never really saw him use that power set in this version. owen's powers would have come in handy against a celestial, the worm and even thor.

Would you forget that you could walk after you'd done it before, especially if you stated that you were more aware of yourself than you were in the past? I'd expect that you'd be able to run in this case. Seems like an attempt to discredit. I think it's a poor means of arguing tbh. Like I said before, Sentry has been one of the most hated characters in comics, but it's no reason to refuse that he's crazy powerful.

Stoic
Originally posted by leonidas
do we know this version of sentry retained the knowledge he previously had? didn't seem to exhibit any of those powers.

and could the version of owen sentry beat beat val? i dunno tbh. and true you don't have to have no limits, but the limits you're extending him too are well beyond what we saw this version do afaik... his mental state has ALWAYS been his ultimate governor. because of that, not sure how we can extend something he did (or realized) pre death seed, to this version. it should certainly be a question when we never really saw him use that power set in this version. owen's powers would have come in handy against a celestial, the worm and even thor.

Owen had no problem using his powers Leo, he just had no defense against similar powers working on him in reverse. The Sentry has his abilities, and others that he doesn't possess.

As DS Sentry, he was completely in control of his mental state, if you didn't notice when he ripped Thor away from his team to give him a message of his importance in the coming future. He wasn't there for a huge display of power, and was just toying with Thor. He could have killed him at any time.

riv6672
Originally posted by Stoic
And if he turned them all to ash, then what?
I speculate EE would block that move.
See, it works both ways.

And, proving my point, this type of back & firth gets us nowhere as its not a debate.

JBL
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Mon El was nearly KOed by the shaft, he wasn't even hit by the blade. let me go through my comics collection and see, but I believe persuader was about to kill shadow lass and Mon-el let the blade hit his arm and stopped it.

leonidas
Originally posted by Stoic
Would you forget that you could walk after you'd done it before, especially if you stated that you were more aware of yourself than you were in the past? I'd expect that you'd be able to run in this case. Seems like an attempt to discredit. I think it's a poor means of arguing tbh. Like I said before, Sentry has been one of the most hated characters in comics, but it's no reason to refuse that he's crazy powerful.

you say discredit, i say you're crediting him unduly. i have as much evidence that he CAN'T go all owen level in this state, as you do that he CAN, so careful with the claims of poor argumentation. my guess would be that one scot likely has all relevant scans. maybe i'll hit him up or if he's lurking he can post them. me and you aren't, nor will we be on, the same page with regards to sentry. if i can round up the scans that will at least give others a chance to judge for themselves.

riv6672
^^^that'd be nice.

tkitna
Originally posted by leonidas
you say discredit, i say you're crediting him unduly. i have as much evidence that he CAN'T go all owen level in this state, as you do that he CAN, so careful with the claims of poor argumentation. my guess would be that one scot likely has all relevant scans. maybe i'll hit him up or if he's lurking he can post them. me and you aren't, nor will we be on, the same page with regards to sentry. if i can round up the scans that will at least give others a chance to judge for themselves.

Dsentry did show molecular manipulation when he created the sand giants in my opinion. Some say he did it with TP, but I disagree. I admit that it was never stated on panel though as to how he was doing it.

Enzeru
Originally posted by leonidas

i have as much evidence that he CAN'T go all owen level in this state, as you do that he CAN, so careful with the claims of poor argumentation.

So your argument is, that because Death Seed Sentry didn't erase Thor on a molecular level, he can't do it...
... beeecauseee Death Seed Sentry is not Dark Avengers Sentry?

Come on. He was the same character with a piece of Celestial tech in him, which allowed him to tap into more of his potential power. We've seen it with other characters in the past like for example with Mystique. She was not only able to shapeshift into other people, but was also able to morph her entire body into all kinds of forms.

The thing with Sentrys power set is, that he warps the reality on a molecular level. The Death Seed didn't give him any additional powers. At the very max it just gave him more control over his ability. But I would still argue, that everything Death Seed Sentry had done, the Sentry himself had already done before: regenerating from all kinds of damage, offensive telepathy, life creation.

Death Seed Sentry would have been able to kill Thor with offensive molecule manipulation like he did it to Loki... and he was on the brink of doing it to Thor as well, before Wasp BFRed him with the plot-device-worm.

During Dark Avengers he used his tentacles to destroy a weapon his wife tried to kill herself with:
https://imgur.com/H3i6OAv
https://i.imgur.com/UJrneOY.jpg

During Siege he used his tentacles to kill Loki:
https://imgur.com/ypF0lT6
https://imgur.com/W0pQZVg

And during Uncanny Avengers he beat Thor into submission a couple of times, but once he saw that he couldn't convince Thor to listen to him, he went for the kill... again with his tentacles:
https://i.imgur.com/gjax3Aj.jpg

Thor would have been dispersed into a bunch of molecules right there.

leonidas
hey don't blame me for his lack of power displays in this form. and it has nothing to do with thor. it has everything to do with the fact that he did NOT display the same powers in the ds form. the seed can and did change the mentality of others. if his power is based on his mentality, it may well have had some effect on his power set overall. personally i don't care if it did or didn't. i simply am not willing to assume it didn't like others are. and until i see proof of this sentry using molecule man beating powers, i'm not gonna buy that he has them. at all. ever. if this character has proven one thing over the years, it's that he is ridiculously inconsistent. /shrug

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by JBL
let me go through my comics collection and see, but I believe persuader was about to kill shadow lass and Mon-el let the blade hit his arm and stopped it.

Thanks.

Incidentally, he can control the axe with his mind:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ngNqQSPLBdM/WELJ6gp_nyI/AAAAAAAAAj4/xQATGfzKL3I8wgzFRzgj5XBSYB33RlVPACEw/s1600/SUP%2B198%2BPers%2B%2528365x640%2529.jpg

IOW, this has now become a speed of thought attack. If he thinks to attack with his axe, it will attack. At the speed of thought.

And his attacks are pretty instant. In one cut, he actually drains Superboy completely:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ddkR2xznp08/WELJ55dXRYI/AAAAAAAAAj0/eRRtbQIaB-8bxd8WJXAatFvRPM25r8Z6ACEw/s400/SLSH%2B246%2B%2528640x348%2529.jpg

Stoic
I can't believe that Scot isn't in on this yet. LOL. Now that's irony.

riv6672
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thanks.

Incidentally, he can control the axe with his mind:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ngNqQSPLBdM/WELJ6gp_nyI/AAAAAAAAAj4/xQATGfzKL3I8wgzFRzgj5XBSYB33RlVPACEw/s1600/SUP%2B198%2BPers%2B%2528365x640%2529.jpg

IOW, this has now become a speed of thought attack. If he thinks to attack with his axe, it will attack. At the speed of thought.

And his attacks are pretty instant. In one cut, he actually drains Superboy completely:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ddkR2xznp08/WELJ55dXRYI/AAAAAAAAAj0/eRRtbQIaB-8bxd8WJXAatFvRPM25r8Z6ACEw/s400/SLSH%2B246%2B%2528640x348%2529.jpg
Thats pretty potent haxx. I dont think my opinion's wrong in this thread.

Adam Grimes
Lmao, I love how Sentry is always using MM beating powers despite only ever using matter manipulation in one comic. Smh

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Lmao, I love how Sentry is always using MM beating powers despite only ever using matter manipulation in one comic. Smh

*molecule manipulation, which only requires one thought to put the other team in oblivion.


Lmao, I love how Superman is always speedblitzing people and is untouchable on forums despite the fact he is slow, unskilled and a punching bag in the comics.

At least Sentry has proven he can destroy people on a whim and avoid doing it because he is afraid the Void does the same in a evil way and hundreds of times worse. Superman doesn't even have the excuse to be written as a bad fan-fiction on the battle forums. The writers must be laughing their ass off.

Have a good day. thumb up

Adam Grimes
Reading your babbling makes my day good, indeed. Thanks thumb up

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Reading your babbling makes my day good, indeed. Thanks thumb up

You are talking about yourself again. Nice try thought. thumb up

You still have zero arguments like usual, no proofs, zilch. Have a good day. laughing out loud

Adam Grimes
You are still wrong. That makes my day good too. Thanks thumb up

Pd: and becoming upset; even better.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
You are still wrong. That makes my day good too. Thanks thumb up

Pd: and becoming upset; even better.

I cannot be wrong about something that happened, crystal clear, on panel.

The fatal five ends like this:

http://i.imgur.com/T15c2UM.jpg

Have a good day. thumb up

PS: Nobody is more upset than you, pal. That's why you come whining everytime without anything to support your stance. thumb up

Adam Grimes
On average it wouldn't. It will be a good day when you start understanding words like that, lol.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
On average it wouldn't. It will be a good day when you start understanding words like that, lol.

There is nothing "average" in the way the Molecule Manipualtion is utilised as it simply requires an effortless thought from the user.

You could know that if you actually had the ability to make your own researches and understand them, instead of following the group thinking like a good little sheep.

Have a good day. thumb up

Adam Grimes
So you agree it happened only once, right?

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
So you agree it happened only once, right?

Twice, effortlessly as a direct attack.

It is still happening all the time because that's how Sentry uses his powers.

He manipulates the reality. Period.

The way that power manifest itself only needs a thought to work.

I don't care what your stance is actually, I'm just informing you how wrong you are about how his abilities works.

Adam Grimes
Concession accepted. thumb up

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Concession accepted. thumb up

Nice.

I can see that you are improving your debating style. Congrats. thumb up

Sentry erases the DCU on a whim. Have a good day. thumb up

Adam Grimes
I see your trolling is deteriorating even more. thumb down

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
I see your trolling is deteriorating even more. thumb down

I'm not even trolling.

Adam Grimes
That's sad my friend.

riv6672
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Lmao, I love how Sentry is always using MM beating powers despite only ever using matter manipulation in one comic. Smh

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Reading your babbling makes my day good, indeed. Thanks thumb up

Once i figured out he wasnt interested in actually debating, but would just naysay any argument out of hand i put him in the comedy relief camp.
Everyone has that character they go nuts over. I firmly belueve Ted Kord can beat true form Darkseid. yes

RealityWarper
Originally posted by riv6672
Once i figured out he wasnt interested in actually debating, but would just naysay any argument out of hand i put him in the comedy relief camp.
Everyone has that character they go nuts over. I firmly belueve Ted Kord can beat true form Darkseid. yes

Instead of trying to being judgemental about my character, try to counter the points I have made about Sentry's abilities.

Zack M
FF wins,

playa1258
RW wanks Sentry as much as CBR does Silver Surfer and Comicvine does Martian Manhunter.

It is the way of things.

riv6672
Originally posted by Zack M
FF wins,
Thanks for the Bump.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by playa1258
RW wanks Sentry as much as CBR does Silver Surfer and Comicvine does Martian Manhunter.

It is the way of things.

I'm not wanking anything.

I strictly follow what the characters in the comics said about Sentry, I strictly follow what the writers said about him and I strictly look at his feats objectively because I know how his state of mind affect him.

I can see that you have nothing up your sleeve to disprove the arguments for Sentry.

You can continue to post your childish behaviour in those pages and try to play the card of the Genetic Fallacy.

That's already too much at your debating-level.

Have a good day. thumb up

riv6672
^^^SSDNR

carver9
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Instead of trying to being judgemental about my character, try to counter the points I have made about Sentry's abilities.

Who is the weakest person iyo that could beat Sentry?

RealityWarper
Originally posted by carver9
Who is the weakest person iyo that could beat Sentry?

Only characters in his class or some with insane prep'.

carver9
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Only characters in his class or some with insane prep'.

Who could overpower him without prep?

RealityWarper
Originally posted by carver9
Who could overpower him without prep?

Maybe Molecule Man.

I don't know if Sentry will win a second round but he won the first because of his raw power, despite the massive gap in skills between them.

Zack M
Hulk SMASH

riv6672
^^^he usually DOES. thumb up

Mindship
Stalemate. I don't see Death Sentry putting down PC Validus or even getting the best of him ... but I don't know how Validus would permanently terminate DSS either. Could those mental bolts, like, disintegrate Sentry? And could Sentry recover from something more thorough than a simple anatomical smash? Can he pull a Dr Manhattan? If not, then I could see Validus winning.

I jus' dinna ken.

Delta1938
Originally posted by riv6672
^^Oh my dear lord you're serious.

Again, not sure who'd win, but statements like that either show your ignorance or your bias.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130312013034/random-ness/images/f/f0/Why_not_both.jpg

riv6672
Originally posted by Mindship
Stalemate. I don't see Death Sentry putting down PC Validus or even getting the best of him ... but I don't know how Validus would permanently terminate DSS either. Could those mental bolts, like, disintegrate Sentry? And could Sentry recover from something more thorough than a simple anatomical smash? Can he pull a Dr Manhattan? If not, then I could see Validus winning.

I jus' dinna ken.
No one kens.

Mindship
Originally posted by riv6672
No one kens. Every time I read this I chuckle.

riv6672
Originally posted by Mindship
Every time I read this I chuckle.
stick out tongue

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