Arcann vs. Darth Maul

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Stigma
Setting: Naboo plains

Starting distance: 20 feet

Who wins?

Nephthys
Arcann ragdolls.

Azronger
Maul stomps

robgod
Originally posted by Nephthys
Arcann ragdolls.

carthage

MythLord
Maul.

ILS
Maul has the feats and accolades to win this, for sure. Though I'd be willing to hear an argument from those who think Arcann wins.

robgod
arcann beat the outlander who is >> maul
he also deflected valkorions lightning
a failed apprentice isnt taking arcann lol

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Going with Arcann, yeah.

AncientPower
Arcann cleans house, to be honest. Maul is probably ACT III Wrath, at best.

ILS
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Going with Arcann, yeah. What makes you say that?

cs_zoltan
He admitted of being a TOR wanker, plain and simple.

ILS
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
He admitted of being a TOR wanker, plain and simple. True, but he's also one of the foremost members of the remaining TOR brigade, so I'm keen to hear his insights on Arcann.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by ILS
What makes you say that?

I'll answer this when I'm not on my phone.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
He admitted of being a TOR wanker, plain and simple.

Good one

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Good one

Why you deny it?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I have them roughly on par. Politics necessitate that I favor Valkorion in such a scenario. smile

FreshestSlice
Arcann wouldn't cry like a ***** when he's electrocuted, or be three shot by Obi-Wan, so leaning Arcann.

NewGuy01
ehh, kenobi>valkorion>>>arcann

FreshestSlice
And yet for some reason thought he needed to wait two decades to even reveal himself to the galaxy.

NewGuy01
took vitiate like a thousand years, dood

FreshestSlice
Yeah, but he always planned to carry out his plans himself, not pawn it out on a baby.

NewGuy01
>vitiate carries out his plans personally, and doesn't make children do it for him

Ever heard of the Children of the Emperor?

Nephthys
Arcann was dominating the Pre-amp Outlander with the Force and all of the Force using classes are more powerful than Maul is. AP is right that its arguable whether Maul even compares to Act 3 Wrath. I couldn't see Maul replicating his Sel-Makor feat for instance. He'd get destroyed.

ILS
Originally posted by Nephthys
Arcann was dominating the Pre-amp Outlander with the Force and all of the Force using classes are more powerful than Maul is. Can you give me the short version of why that is?Same as above. What's so great about the Wrath and his feats?

Nephthys
Originally posted by ILS
Can you give me the short version of why that is?

Same as above. What's so great about the Wrath and his feats?

They just have better feats and scaling. At the start of the game, just after becoming a Jedi the Barsen'thor crumples a 2 story tall, meter thick blast door like paper with a casual 1 hand force blast, while weakened. Shortly before that they throw a bus sized chunk of metal over a hundred feet easily. The feats get better from there. Nox was among the strongest Sith alive on personal merit alone and could further amplify their power with the combined power of 5 Force Ghosts. They were literally backhanding Thanatons lightning like it was nothing. The Hero beat a Vitiate who could demolish the Dark Temple after losing their fight. Etc.

Ant made a pretty detailed respect thread. The specific feat I referenced was the Wrath defeating a darkside God (literally, its the personification Voss' darkside and had enough power to wipe out the planet properly channeled) in the heart of its power after it had possessed Vitiates avatar.

Trocity
The best part is basically all of their feats they do are pre-prime while hindered and weakened and distracted and bloated from dinner.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by NewGuy01
>vitiate carries out his plans personally, and doesn't make children do it for him

Ever heard of the Children of the Emperor?
You mean puppets that are all controlled by personalities he controls? ****ing weak way of showing how he doesn't carry out his own plans, tbh.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Trocity
The best part is basically all of their feats they do are pre-prime while hindered and weakened and distracted and bloated from dinner.

The prime example being 'Thor fighting through an entire capital ship of troops, a number of which were alchemically enhanced, and tanking an explosion that disintegrated a blast door all while highly weakened from repeatedly using a technique that killed previous users and then defeating an ancient Sith Lord who was siphoning power from hundreds of the strongest Jedi Masters.

In act 1.

DarthAnt66
Neph, I recall us arguing years back over that feat. I was always under the impression that the ritual had yet to start based on dialogue.

What indicators are there that he already began siphoning - or are you saying simply having the power to do such an act is beastly (which I agree)?

FreshestSlice
Why are we pretending that LS Barsen'thor is even remotely valid?

Nephthys
Nope. If you kill him Syo calls you up and tells you hundreds of Jedi Masters just died for no reason. Also Vivicar tells you that he can draw strength from all of them as the reason why you're too late and can't possibly defeat him. I just checked though and he says that he performed the ritual "before you even stepped aboard".

DarthAnt66
Interesting. I'm too lazy to check ATM, but are there alternative versions of the fight like the Vitiate vs Hero fight? I know there's some dialogue indicating the ritual had yet to begin.

Nephthys
He does indicate that it takes time to fully siphon the power, saying that soon he'll become the strongest guy everer, but that doesn't contradict him stating that he started it before you arrived. I think thats what you're thinking of.

He definitely already did it though, otherwise the dialogue wouldn't make any sense at all.

AncientPower
The Wrath's list of utter savagery is so great because they all scale off of each other. Which is why I'm being generous by comparing Maul to her.

ILS

Azronger
To reinforce ILS' point, Anakin also has this feat in 21BBY, only a short while after he gets his shit kicked in by Saato and Trenox:

The next storm-shield generator overloaded just as Anakin reached it. He had a split second's warning, one hammer blow from the Force. The storm seemed to hold its breath...

...and then exhaled in renewed fury as the generator erupted in a burning light show of sparks. With a scream like a wounded animal the shield directly overhead collapsed and a maelstrom of theta particles poured through the gap.

He acted on instinct-and out of sheer bloody-minded terror. Throwing up his hands he used the Force to hold back the stream of theta particles, and with a shout of rage became one with the storm shield. Rejected the storm. He thought he could feel his blood bubbling. He was losing himself, disappearing within the scarlet vortex of the Force as it consumed him and transformed him into fire.

And there was his mother, whispering again. He can help yon. He was meant to help yon. Furious, Anakin stood alone against the storm.

"It was the most awful thing I've ever seen, " Qui-Gon had told him, so many years ago. "Theta storms kill in two ways, you see. If you're contaminated from a distance, well, it takes a long time to die. But if you are in the storm's path it trill rip you to pieces and then melt your bones. I've seen it kill both ways, and both ways arc cruel. Better to be swallowed alive by a sarlacc. "

Anakin felt the explosion heartbeats before it happened. Sweating and trembling with the effort of holding back the theta storm, ignoring the villagers who'd come to see what was going on, he tried to send Obi-Wan a warning-but his mind was so bludgeoned by the quicksilver torment of keeping the raging storm at bay that he couldn't feel his former Master's presence.

And then the refinery went up like Coruscant fireworks on Republic Day.

Screams and shouts sounded as panic surged through the Force, bright and white and stunning. Vision smearing and blearing, Anakin sought in the crowd for Teeba Jaklin. She'd come from the charter house to see what the fuss was about and remained because she couldn't believe her own eyes.

"Jaklin! Teeba Jaklin!"

She pushed and shoved and swore her way to him through the jostling villagers who pointed and gasped and were beginning to break for the refinery.

"Yes, Markl?" She scowled. "If that's even your name. "

"It's my name at the moment, " he said, his teeth gritted against the relentless pain of the storm. "Teeba Jaklin, please. Find Yavid for me. Make sure he's all right. "

The explosion's echoes rolled around the village, trapped beneath the barely holding shield. The red stormglow beyond it was matched by the red glow of leaping flames. The refinery was burning. He and Jaklin stared at each other as the rest of Torbel's people ran to help, shadows in the glare of the storm. Some headed for the artesian well, for water. Others made straight for the burning building full of raw damotite.

A chilling thought struck him. Was the mineral itself flammable? That smoke-was it a toxic cloud poised to poison every last man, woman, and child beneath the storm shield?

"Teeba Jaklin! Is there danger from the..."

Her eyes were full of fear. "Yes. Not drop-dead-on-the-spot trouble but even with our secret protection we'll all of us be sickly in the next few days. " She looked up at the thrashing theta storm over their heads. "Unless that clears quick soon and we can down the shields so the smoke gets to blow clean away. "

"Which..." He had to pause, to rebalance himself. The effort of fighting the storm was threatening to drive him to his knees. He'd started to breathe in harsh gasping pants. "Which is-worse? The theta particles-or the damotite-smoke?"

The question made her laugh grimly. "The storm-unless it don't clear and we're left breathing smoke for hours on end. Then we'll be likely done for whichever way you slice the bread. "

Of course they would be. The universe had a stinking sense of humor.

"You need-to find Yavid, " he gasped. "If he's-not hurt he-can help you. "

The look on her face said she thought they were all beyond help. "I'll look for him. How much longer before you fail, Teeb?"

He didn't know. He didn't want to think about that. "I'm- all right. Go. Please. " Another deep, shuddering breath. "Find Yavid. "

They were alone now, save for the men working on the shield generator. Jaklin turned away from him. "Guyne! How soon before that generator's fixed?"

The oldest of the four feverishly tinkering men spared her a glance. "Going as fast as we can, Jaklin. Half the circuits are burned out. "

Anakin tightened his hold on the Force, feeling the seethe and surge of the storm like living fire. "I can-hold on, Teeba. Don't-worry-about me. Just go. Co!"

Half step by half step, Jaklin retreated. In the garish light her eyes were narrowed. A muscle worked along her jaw. "I know what you are, young Teeb. You're..."

"Not-now, " he said, almost groaning. "Please. Find Yavid. Tell him-I'll get there-soon as-I can. "

Instead of answering, she turned to look at Guyne one last time. "Could he our lives are with you now, old Teeb, " she said, her voice cracking. "Don't you be letting us down. "

His teeth showed briefly in his thin, seamed face. "Not planning to, old Teeba. Get on now. Rikkard'll have need of you. "

Anakin took another rib-cracking breath. "Teeba..."

"I know, " she snapped, retreating. "Yavid. I said I'd look, and I will. I'm an honest one-even if you aren't. "

She broke into a flat-footed run. He watched her for a few short, uneven strides, feeling Guyne's measured stare.

Don't look at me, old man. Fix that generator, would you?

Anakin hurt so much now it would be easy just to... give in. Give up. Let go. But he couldn't do that. Hundreds of lives were depending on him. He had to stand here and take it until the generator was fixed-or his heart gave out. So he closed his eyes. Whether it made sense or not he always found it easier to focus his will when cocooned in darkness.

With sight denied him all his other senses leapt to keener life. The stink of the shield generator's scorched circuitry. The stink of burning damotite from the exploded refinery. The stink of his own sweat. He heard-felt-three more explosions. Smaller this time, in swift succession. There were shouts, sirens. Sounds and echoes drumming. The worst of the Force's insistent warning had faded, leaving him scoured hollow and stunned. Now all he felt in the Force was confusion, fear and pain. Everything he usually felt, no matter where he was. It was terrible and yet, in the strangest way, also comforting. He knew how to deal with that.

It was the unknown that made him nervous.

How long had he been standing here, holding back the storm? Probably less than an hour. It felt like days. Years. He didn't have much time before the choice of whether to let go or endure would be out of his hands. Even the Chosen One had limits.

He remembered himself as a small boy, boasting to Qui-Gon at his mother's rough table.

Has anyone ever seen a Podrace? I'm the only human who can do it.

And now he was probably the only Jedi who could turn himself into a living storm shield.

It isn't boasting. It's the truth. I've got a knack for beating the odds.

Now all he had to do was beat these odds for just a little bit longer...

Sweat pouring, heart pounding, dimly aware that he was burning himself out, Anakin clung to the Force like a child to its mothers hand. Time passed. He passed with it, in silence.

"All right, " said Giuyne at last. "I think that's got it. Teeb Markl..."

Stirring, he opened his eyes. "Teeb?"

"We're going to try the generator. Get ready. "

He managed to nod.

The other three men stepped back from the generator as Guyne, sore and sorry and tired, took a deep breath and reconnected the power supply. He flipped a series of switches, waited-waited-then activated the shield.

With a sizzling hum the storm shield came back online. Guyne and his three friends cheered, tiredly ecstatic... and Anakin slumped, falling boneless and graceless to the hard, dry ground.

Master. "I know you couldn't. I'm not angry. If anything, I'm astonished. Anakin, what you managed..." Obi-Wan shook his head. "I'm not certain that Yoda himself could've held this wretched storm back the way you did, for as long as you did. You saved the village. "

Clone Wars Gambit: Siege

Tanking a theta storm that can melt bones for an hour? Anakin is up to the task. Compare that to Arcann not lasting a minute against a lightning storm that could only kill not even disintegrate like the theta storm. laughing out loud

Arcann dies horribly against Padawan Anakin. Pitting him against Maul is the very definition of mismatch. laughing

SunRazer
Nice post from ILS. Pretty sure blind feat scaling wars won't go well for the TOR crew.

It helps the Obi-Wan comparison that in the TCW novel itself, Anakin is pushing AT-TE's with enough power that the impact possesses the kinetic force of a bomb going off:



The "bus-sized" metal block feat pales in comparison.

The Ellimist
Besides, the starting distance is 20 feet - I can easily see Maul just rushing in and overwhelming him in sabers.

MythLord
Originally posted by Azronger
Tanking a theta storm that can melt bones for an hour? Anakin is up to the task. Compare that to Arcann not lasting a minute against a lightning storm that could only kill not even disintegrate like the theta storm. laughing out loud

Also, that's a single bolt of lightning that melts bones, meanwhile Anakin was exhausted and shielded a considerable part of a village from a storm... The feat sh!ts on Arcann's by all accounts.

Nephthys

Azronger
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111282615/6087298-arcann+dies+3.png

A premonition of things to come. Arcann's days on KMC are numbered smile

Nephthys
Originally posted by Azronger
To reinforce ILS' point, Anakin also has this feat in 21BBY, only a short while after he gets his shit kicked in by Saato and Trenox:

The next storm-shield generator overloaded just as Anakin reached it. He had a split second's warning, one hammer blow from the Force. The storm seemed to hold its breath...

...and then exhaled in renewed fury as the generator erupted in a burning light show of sparks. With a scream like a wounded animal the shield directly overhead collapsed and a maelstrom of theta particles poured through the gap.

He acted on instinct-and out of sheer bloody-minded terror. Throwing up his hands he used the Force to hold back the stream of theta particles, and with a shout of rage became one with the storm shield. Rejected the storm. He thought he could feel his blood bubbling. He was losing himself, disappearing within the scarlet vortex of the Force as it consumed him and transformed him into fire.

And there was his mother, whispering again. He can help yon. He was meant to help yon. Furious, Anakin stood alone against the storm.

"It was the most awful thing I've ever seen, " Qui-Gon had told him, so many years ago. "Theta storms kill in two ways, you see. If you're contaminated from a distance, well, it takes a long time to die. But if you are in the storm's path it trill rip you to pieces and then melt your bones. I've seen it kill both ways, and both ways arc cruel. Better to be swallowed alive by a sarlacc. "

Anakin felt the explosion heartbeats before it happened. Sweating and trembling with the effort of holding back the theta storm, ignoring the villagers who'd come to see what was going on, he tried to send Obi-Wan a warning-but his mind was so bludgeoned by the quicksilver torment of keeping the raging storm at bay that he couldn't feel his former Master's presence.

And then the refinery went up like Coruscant fireworks on Republic Day.

Screams and shouts sounded as panic surged through the Force, bright and white and stunning. Vision smearing and blearing, Anakin sought in the crowd for Teeba Jaklin. She'd come from the charter house to see what the fuss was about and remained because she couldn't believe her own eyes.

"Jaklin! Teeba Jaklin!"

She pushed and shoved and swore her way to him through the jostling villagers who pointed and gasped and were beginning to break for the refinery.

"Yes, Markl?" She scowled. "If that's even your name. "

"It's my name at the moment, " he said, his teeth gritted against the relentless pain of the storm. "Teeba Jaklin, please. Find Yavid for me. Make sure he's all right. "

The explosion's echoes rolled around the village, trapped beneath the barely holding shield. The red stormglow beyond it was matched by the red glow of leaping flames. The refinery was burning. He and Jaklin stared at each other as the rest of Torbel's people ran to help, shadows in the glare of the storm. Some headed for the artesian well, for water. Others made straight for the burning building full of raw damotite.

A chilling thought struck him. Was the mineral itself flammable? That smoke-was it a toxic cloud poised to poison every last man, woman, and child beneath the storm shield?

"Teeba Jaklin! Is there danger from the..."

Her eyes were full of fear. "Yes. Not drop-dead-on-the-spot trouble but even with our secret protection we'll all of us be sickly in the next few days. " She looked up at the thrashing theta storm over their heads. "Unless that clears quick soon and we can down the shields so the smoke gets to blow clean away. "

"Which..." He had to pause, to rebalance himself. The effort of fighting the storm was threatening to drive him to his knees. He'd started to breathe in harsh gasping pants. "Which is-worse? The theta particles-or the damotite-smoke?"

The question made her laugh grimly. "The storm-unless it don't clear and we're left breathing smoke for hours on end. Then we'll be likely done for whichever way you slice the bread. "

Of course they would be. The universe had a stinking sense of humor.

"You need-to find Yavid, " he gasped. "If he's-not hurt he-can help you. "

The look on her face said she thought they were all beyond help. "I'll look for him. How much longer before you fail, Teeb?"

He didn't know. He didn't want to think about that. "I'm- all right. Go. Please. " Another deep, shuddering breath. "Find Yavid. "

They were alone now, save for the men working on the shield generator. Jaklin turned away from him. "Guyne! How soon before that generator's fixed?"

The oldest of the four feverishly tinkering men spared her a glance. "Going as fast as we can, Jaklin. Half the circuits are burned out. "

Anakin tightened his hold on the Force, feeling the seethe and surge of the storm like living fire. "I can-hold on, Teeba. Don't-worry-about me. Just go. Co!"

Half step by half step, Jaklin retreated. In the garish light her eyes were narrowed. A muscle worked along her jaw. "I know what you are, young Teeb. You're..."

"Not-now, " he said, almost groaning. "Please. Find Yavid. Tell him-I'll get there-soon as-I can. "

Instead of answering, she turned to look at Guyne one last time. "Could he our lives are with you now, old Teeb, " she said, her voice cracking. "Don't you be letting us down. "

His teeth showed briefly in his thin, seamed face. "Not planning to, old Teeba. Get on now. Rikkard'll have need of you. "

Anakin took another rib-cracking breath. "Teeba..."

"I know, " she snapped, retreating. "Yavid. I said I'd look, and I will. I'm an honest one-even if you aren't. "

She broke into a flat-footed run. He watched her for a few short, uneven strides, feeling Guyne's measured stare.

Don't look at me, old man. Fix that generator, would you?

Anakin hurt so much now it would be easy just to... give in. Give up. Let go. But he couldn't do that. Hundreds of lives were depending on him. He had to stand here and take it until the generator was fixed-or his heart gave out. So he closed his eyes. Whether it made sense or not he always found it easier to focus his will when cocooned in darkness.

With sight denied him all his other senses leapt to keener life. The stink of the shield generator's scorched circuitry. The stink of burning damotite from the exploded refinery. The stink of his own sweat. He heard-felt-three more explosions. Smaller this time, in swift succession. There were shouts, sirens. Sounds and echoes drumming. The worst of the Force's insistent warning had faded, leaving him scoured hollow and stunned. Now all he felt in the Force was confusion, fear and pain. Everything he usually felt, no matter where he was. It was terrible and yet, in the strangest way, also comforting. He knew how to deal with that.

It was the unknown that made him nervous.

How long had he been standing here, holding back the storm? Probably less than an hour. It felt like days. Years. He didn't have much time before the choice of whether to let go or endure would be out of his hands. Even the Chosen One had limits.

He remembered himself as a small boy, boasting to Qui-Gon at his mother's rough table.

Has anyone ever seen a Podrace? I'm the only human who can do it.

And now he was probably the only Jedi who could turn himself into a living storm shield.

It isn't boasting. It's the truth. I've got a knack for beating the odds.

Now all he had to do was beat these odds for just a little bit longer...

Sweat pouring, heart pounding, dimly aware that he was burning himself out, Anakin clung to the Force like a child to its mothers hand. Time passed. He passed with it, in silence.

"All right, " said Giuyne at last. "I think that's got it. Teeb Markl..."

Stirring, he opened his eyes. "Teeb?"

"We're going to try the generator. Get ready. "

He managed to nod.

The other three men stepped back from the generator as Guyne, sore and sorry and tired, took a deep breath and reconnected the power supply. He flipped a series of switches, waited-waited-then activated the shield.

With a sizzling hum the storm shield came back online. Guyne and his three friends cheered, tiredly ecstatic... and Anakin slumped, falling boneless and graceless to the hard, dry ground.

Master. "I know you couldn't. I'm not angry. If anything, I'm astonished. Anakin, what you managed..." Obi-Wan shook his head. "I'm not certain that Yoda himself could've held this wretched storm back the way you did, for as long as you did. You saved the village. "

Clone Wars Gambit: Siege

Tanking a theta storm that can melt bones for an hour? Anakin is up to the task. Compare that to Arcann not lasting a minute against a lightning storm that could only kill not even disintegrate like the theta storm. laughing out loud

Arcann dies horribly against Padawan Anakin. Pitting him against Maul is the very definition of mismatch. laughing

That feat isn't even better than Tott Donetta's.

Azronger
Holy shit Neph sucks dinosaur balls

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Nephthys
That feat isn't even better than Tott Donetta's.

If wookieepedia is accurate those heat storms Tott partially blocks reach like 300 degrees celsius, wheres theta storms could melt bone (melting point of 1670 c).

Nephthys
Melt it? Thats cute.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111242954/4720733-lsumxffa.png

MythLord
It looks more like it's engulfing the bones, and we see charred skeleton remains later, so no it's obviously not melting.

And good feat for Tott, I guess he beats Arcann too.

AncientPower
Tott wasn't even as powerful as Nomi, Arcann would eviscerate him.

MythLord
Nomi would beat Arcann as well, I suppose.

Azronger
Yeah, considering Tott's feat, he'd probably just walk right through that pathetic lightshow Valkorion put up. Not that Tott Doneeta has anything to do with this anyway; Arcann still dies horribly to Maul.

DarthAnt66
Valkorion is infinitely more powerful than Tott, lol.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Nephthys


Your entire opening point with regards to Anakin is based on the extremely exaggerated material related to the old CW cartoon. It's well out of sync with his standard showings and completely worthless to me. Build your house on concrete instead of sand next time. I appreciate how much effort you put into it though. .

Not that I have a dog in this fight, but I'm just gonna use this as a jump off point.

But given everything else in regards to showings and the like with other characters and even just standard non-named characters, why exactly are some considered exaggerated, yet when there are showings which are comparable are seen as not?

Azronger
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Valkorion is infinitely more powerful than Tott, lol.

Not in the body of the Outlanded, it seems.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Not that I have a dog in this fight, but I'm just gonna use this as a jump off point.

But given everything else in regards to showings and the like with other characters and even just standard non-named characters, why exactly are some considered exaggerated, yet when there are showings which are comparable are seen as not?

Hint: it's stuff he doesn't like, lol.

Given accolades, author intent, word of god, etc. all depict Anakin as a being of unprecedented connection to the Force, it stands to reason that he would outperform the vast majority of other characters in the magnitude of his showings when exhibiting comparable effort levels.

Obviously there's other factors like emotional and mental states, but I would think that if there was a contradiction between showings, the higher showings would make more narrative sense for the son of the Force itself.

LordOfTheLight
Originally posted by The Ellimist
If wookieepedia is accurate those heat storms Tott partially blocks reach like 300 degrees celsius, wheres theta storms could melt bone (melting point of 1670 c).

It doesn't matter what internal energy these storms possessed or how much damage they could cause to normal people, what matters is how big the storm is and its "kinetic" energy, which is a more reliable indicator of whose feat is better.

Example-A smuggler picks up a lightsaber and strikes at a Jedi. At the last possible instant, the Jedi deflects the blade, which hsn't made contact with him at all, just by Tk. Do we now say that the Jedi has disintegration level Tk? No. Because all he did was deflect the mass of the lightsaber away. It would have been more impressive had it been a force user holding the lightsaber, because the speed of it would be greater and consequently the feat.

DarthAnt66
That's blatantly ignoring the fantasy element of a space fantasy. It should be clear as day that a Force-user deflecting lightsaber blows is crazy shit.

LordOfTheLight
With Tutaminis? Sure. Or if the lightsaber touches his hand and is repelled? Again, sure.

So long as it is away from him, it might as well be another stick.

DarthAnt66
-

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Nephthys

Your entire opening point with regards to Anakin is based on the extremely exaggerated material related to the old CW cartoon. It's well out of sync with his standard showings and completely worthless to me. Build your house on concrete instead of sand next time. I appreciate how much effort you put into it though.

When you can't address an argument, characterize it so you don't have to.

That said, Anakin isn't a great basis for scaling since he regularly outperforms his usual level when pushed to the brink.

In other words...


This is why ILS said we shouldn't just "blindly scale"

Sirion_Of_Doom
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
When you can't address an argument, characterize it so you don't have to.
Rocky's recent insistence on pointing out other people's fallacies/errors(^),
as if he's some sort of intellectual scholar on the matter, is pretty cringe,
especially considering his own incompetence.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Sirion_Of_Doom
Rocky's recent insistence on pointing out other people's fallacies/errors(^),
as if he's some sort of intellectual scholar on the matter, is pretty cringe,
especially considering his own incompetence.
I was unaware scholarship was a prerequesite to commenting on a forum about which fictional character is more op.

Imma need to get that PHD in versus discussion now.

Sirion_Of_Doom
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I was unaware scholarship was a prerequesite to commenting on a forum about which fictional character is more op.

Imma need to get that PHD in versus discussion now.
No, it's just a pretty funny pattern you've followed for the last couple of weeks/months now.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Sirion_Of_Doom
No, it's just a pretty funny pattern you've followed for the last couple of weeks/months now.
You've been tracking me for months? blink

Sirion_Of_Doom
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
You've been tracking me for months? blink
Nah, I'm just one of the few people who haven't put you on ignore yet, bro. So I read your posts.

Stigma
So who wins this?

ILS
Maul, as I'm going to show in my next reply to Neph.

Stigma
Originally posted by ILS
Maul, as I'm going to show in my next reply to Neph.
thumb up

TBH I have Maul taking 9/10, accounting for the possibility of a streak of bad luck Maul may encounter, like him slipping on a banana peel right before he cuts Arcann down.

But I reserve my judgement for now.

cs_zoltan
Maul is like 4 times as fast as Arcann, he blitzes.

Deronn_solo
I'm backing Arcann.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I'm backing Arcann.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/ca/cc/6ecacc9ab8bc02b0fab36593c8ad101b.gif

Deronn_solo
I'll end ILS' career, tbh

cs_zoltan
The only career you ended so far is your own.

Geistalt
Arcann takes Force and all-out. Make it sabers only.

DarthAnt66
Arcann.

AncientPower
Yeah, Arcann wins every single time.

Azronger
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I'll end ILS' career, tbh

Kbro has ended more careers than you at this point. You'll soon become a LeGenD-tier walking meme if you keep bragging and then not replying.

Rockydonovang
i would have originally went with arcann, but Nova made a great case here:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/arcann-vs-darth-maul-1759741/?page=2

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Azronger
Kbro has ended more careers than you at this point. You'll soon become a LeGenD-tier walking meme if you keep bragging and then not replying.
Nah DC has a good reason, he's busy getting ready for CV rap batt-

Wait no, he's not, DC's trash, mad mad mad

MythLord
I think DC's threats to end careers actually motivate debaters to go on and prove him wrong, therefore actually improving their careers. That's a genuinely good thing. Brings life to the forums. thumb up

Deronn_solo
Lal @ you bottom feeders taking shots at me.

Specifically Zotlan, dude used to br my homie now you act like you don't know me.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I'll end ILS' career, tbh How high are you? And how serious? mmm

Deronn_solo
You do know, I've debated and got the better of ILS in the past, right?

Lmao.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
You do know, I've debated in the past, right? I heard the Legends yeah.

ILS

ILS
Originally posted by Ursumeles
I heard the Legends yeah. http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/choofed.gif

ILS
To put the topic of what is exaggerated and what isn't to rest, I thought I'd share this little gem from Matt Martin, member of the Story Group.
]https://i.imgur.com/H9XCbjA.jpg

TFU and SWTOR are exaggerated in "different ways," and anything "way more powerful than in the films" can be considered exaggerated.

R.I.P?

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Specifically Zotlan, dude used to br my homie now you act like you don't know me.

Hey I like you still. But your false bravado is painful to watch.

Nephthys
Originally posted by ILS
To put the topic of what is exaggerated and what isn't to rest, I thought I'd share this little gem from Matt Martin, member of the Story Group.
]https://i.imgur.com/H9XCbjA.jpg

TFU and SWTOR are exaggerated in "different ways," and anything "way more powerful than in the films" can be considered exaggerated.

R.I.P?

I really couldn't care less how people respond to leading questions in twitter. Its worth less than garbage to me.

I'll try to reply tomorrow, but this place is low on my list of priorities atm.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by ILS
To put the topic of what is exaggerated and what isn't to rest, I thought I'd share this little gem from Matt Martin, member of the Story Group.
]https://i.imgur.com/H9XCbjA.jpg

TFU and SWTOR are exaggerated in "different ways," and anything "way more powerful than in the films" can be considered exaggerated.

R.I.P?

May wanna try the link again, the ] got into it and it's not showing up.

ILS
Originally posted by Zenwolf
May wanna try the link again, the ] got into it and it's not showing up. https://imgur.com/H9XCbjA

or

https://i.imgur.com/H9XCbjA.jpg

Should work.Originally posted by Nephthys
I really couldn't care less how people respond to leading questions in twitter. Its worth less than garbage to me.

I'll try to reply tomorrow, but this place is low on my list of priorities atm. Unfortunately, nobody cares about what you personally place value upon either. And it seems much of your argument relies on your personal preferences.

AncientPower
Yeah, when we have random Dark Council members reducing a citadel to rubble, and Thana Vesh as a child unleashing so much devastation that it burned down an entire Kaas city block; which are all towers/skyscrapers, I really don't think any Dreadnought feat or some such is really relevant. Given how massively the main TOR characters scale above people like Thana Vesh(ACT II Wrath killed her in less time than it took a massive base to collapse, and for the Wrath to escape), basically mid-tier TOR character at best, this shit is amateur hour.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by ILS
https://imgur.com/H9XCbjA

or

https://i.imgur.com/H9XCbjA.jpg

Should work. Unfortunately, nobody cares about what you personally place value upon either. And it seems much of your argument relies on your personal preferences.

The exaggerated argument is pretty dumb anyway, oh TFU and OCW series are exaggerated?

Well what about TOR then? Or Kotor games? The comics/novels?

Nephthys
Originally posted by ILS
Should work. Unfortunately, nobody cares about what you personally place value upon either. And it seems much of your argument relies on your personal preferences.

Someones personal opinion on twitter has as much official weight as what I left in the toilet just now. Furthermore you seem to have misunderstood the situation somewhat. You asked me for some information on some characters which I provided, which you appear to have took as an invitation for a debate. I have no particular interest in that, but I've humored you since you were being somewhat polite up until now.

ILS
Originally posted by Nephthys
Someones personal opinion on twitter has as much official weight as what I left in the toilet just now. Furthermore you seem to have misunderstood the situation somewhat. You asked me for some information on some characters which I provided, which you appear to have took as an invitation for a debate. I have no particular interest in that, but I've humored you since you were being somewhat polite up until now. Your personal opinion that OCW is too exaggerated to be used is me "building my foundation out of sand rather than concrete," but a member of the Story Group clarifying what it means for a source to be exaggerated is worth throwing in the toilet? Sounds like a double standard to me.

Neph, you spent this whole thread "debating", that is arguing for why Arcann wins, so I'm not sure why you're backing down now.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yeah, when we have random Dark Council members reducing a citadel to rubble, and Thana Vesh as a child unleashing so much devastation that it burned down an entire Kaas city block; which are all towers/skyscrapers, I really don't think any Dreadnought feat or some such is really relevant. Given how massively the main TOR characters scale above people like Thana Vesh(ACT II Wrath killed her in less time than it took a massive base to collapse, and for the Wrath to escape), basically mid-tier TOR character at best, this shit is amateur hour.
And you know, we have random padawans holding capital ships over their heads. So I'm not sure what your point is. Maul, being one of the most powerful, knowledgeable and highly trained Sith ever no doubt shits all over Thana Vesh too.

My sticks are still bigger than yours.

Also, provide quotes. I don't have access to the codex.

TenebrousWay
I don't remember well but wasn't the theta storm feat considered by Obi Wan to be something even Yoda would struggle with? That alone would render the "feat by association" thing irrelevant as the feat performed by Anakin is above the capacity of Obi Wan as well.

This brings back the pertinence of Nova's point about Anakin unique status as the Chosen One and his capacity to perform unusual feats, given certain circumtances.

ILS
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
I don't remember well but wasn't the theta storm feat considered by Obi Wan to be something even Yoda would struggle with? That alone would render the "feat by association" thing irrelevant as the feat performed by Anakin is above the capacity of Obi Wan as well.

This brings back the pertinence of Nova's point about Anakin unique status as the Chosen One and his capacity to perform unusual feats, given certain circumtances. Obi-Wan and others have been dead-wrong about these things before. Case in point: Mace Windu thought Kar Vastor had similar strength in the Force to Yoda, and he had no chance of defeating him; yet in the same book he beats Vastor up. Windu thought Yoda would be incapable of stopping a speeding train in Labyrinth of Evil, which we also know isn't true.

So there's nothing suggesting Anakin's feat is only something he can do, given how fallible these characters are.

ILS
Here's the Thana Vesh "feat" from the codex, for the record.



Thana Vesh, who was not a child at the time, "lashed out" and caused a fire, which burned down the city block. Ouch. Not as good as we thought, yet again.

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by ILS
Obi-Wan and others have been dead-wrong about these things before. Case in point: Mace Windu thought Kar Vastor had similar strength in the Force to Yoda, and he had no chance of defeating him; yet in the same book he beats Vastor up. Windu thought Yoda would be incapable of stopping a speeding train in Labyrinth of Evil, which we also know isn't true.

So there's nothing suggesting Anakin's feat is only something he can do, given how fallible these characters are.

The question isn't what Obi Wan thinks about Yoda's abilities. The relevant point is, by suggesting Yoda would struggle with it, it clearly implies he, himself couldn't replicate the feat, thus rendering the accolades of the early Clone Wars about Obi Wan being more powerful than Anakin invalid regarding the association of this feat in particular.

Presented by such revelation by Kenobi, I'd consider the most reliable course of action to affirm if he could or not replicate Anakin's feat to be the existence of a similar feat performed by Obi Wan as well.

ILS
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
The question isn't what Obi Wan thinks about Yoda's abilities. The relevant point is, by suggesting Yoda would struggle with it, it clearly implies he, himself couldn't replicate the feat, thus rendering the accolades of the early Clone Wars about Obi Wan being more powerful than Anakin invalid regarding the association of this feat in particular.

Presented by such revelation by Kenobi, I'd consider the most reliable course of action to affirm if he could or not replicate Anakin's feat to be the existence of a similar feat performed by Obi Wan as well. Mace Windu has been wrong about his estimations of self before, and I can certainly find a time where Obi-Wan has been too. So I don't see how character opinions amount to an argument.

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by ILS
Mace Windu has been wrong about his estimations of self before, and I can certainly find a time where Obi-Wan has been too. So I don't see how character opinions amount to an argument.

A character should be an authority about himself. Even in your post above you typed "and I can certainly find a time where" seemly appealing to the exception.

The fact is: Obi Wan doubted if someone vastly more powerful than him could replicate the feat; by association, he certainly didn't believe he could replicate the feat; and he never replicated the feat. Worth of note is the fact Obi Wan's assesment was post facto, so it wasn't based on the preconceptions about the ammount of energy the storm would unleash or how much Force Power Anakin could bring to the table - He witnessed the event and considered himself incapable of replicating it.

So, I'll argue, presented the above, that the evidence weigh far more the side that he can't replicate the feat than the contrary..

LordOfTheLight
Well, TW, if we want to go that route, Obi Wan in these series of novels, thinks he is more powerful than Yoda. At least if we go by the premise you are trying to establish here.

ILS
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
A character should be an authority about himself. Even in your post above you typed "and I can certainly find a time where" seemly appealing to the exception.

The fact is: Obi Wan doubted if someone vastly more powerful than him could replicate the feat; by association, he certainly didn't believe he could replicate the feat; and he never replicated the feat. Worth of note is the fact Obi Wan's assesment was post facto, so it wasn't based on the preconceptions about the ammount of energy the storm would unleash or how much Force Power Anakin could bring to the table - He witnessed the event and considered himself incapable of replicating it.

So, I'll argue, presented the above, that the evidence weigh far more the side that he can't replicate the feat than the contrary.. No, sorry, it's not appealing to an exception, it's simply an observation that characters can be wrong about things; characters don't necessarily know their own limits when all the chips are down. Case-in-point, Windu thought Depa Billaba was his superior in lightsaber combat, he was wrong. At one point, Maul thought he could kill Sidious when previously he couldn't, just due to a change in circumstance, but it doesn't change the fact he was wrong.

I think characters may be an authority about what they can do, to an extent, but their opinions are not limiting factors without evidence. I don't accept that Obi-Wan can place an upper limit on himself he has never tried to exceed that upper limit.

AncientPower
Lmao @ Rivi Anu scaling.



So no, my fine friend, I'm afraid your micro-series CW wank is probably one of the least reliable sources of actual information in the mythos.

Ignoring all of that, however, Rivi Anu's feat has been implied to be oneness.

As far as Vesh is concerned, how the **** did you read 'childhood' and assume adulthood? More importantly the devastation she unleashed burned down an entire city block.

I don't know what it is with you and Maul but whenever you wank him, you go one step forward and then perform epic mental gymnastics. If you're going to do it right, could you not use feats that involve Anakin level potential or at least not solely relying on feats from a series that Lucas himself said aren't even possible?

Rockydonovang
-

Rockydonovang
Characters can be wrong, but that doesn't mean we should assume they are. Whether or not Kenobi was accurate in his assessment regarding Yoda's ability to replicate Anakin's feat, his belief that someone vastly more powerful than him couldn't replicate something that an inferior in actualized power was able to petform implies Anakin wasn't operating at the level he normally perfoms at. This is supported by the text's description of the feat which goes along with what people consider oneness.

It's also worth pointing out the context of the showing, Anakin was protecting an entire city of people and the text describes Anakin pushing himself to his limits because he was protecting other people.

Anakin often performs well beyond his typival levels when pushed in such a way for such reasons.

For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=groYO_51bwY

And while Kenobi's opinion may be fallible, the holistic intent is pretty clear here.

Anakin is using far more of his raw power than he typically was capable of using at this point. Hence scaling from this sort of feat should be taken with a grain of salt.

AncientPower
For once, we're in agreement Kbro.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by AncientPower
Lmao @ Rivi Anu scaling.



So no, my fine friend, I'm afraid your micro-series CW wank is probably one of the least reliable sources of actual information in the mythos.

Ignoring all of that, however, Rivi Anu's feat has been implied to be oneness.

As far as Vesh is concerned, how the **** did you read 'childhood' and assume adulthood? More importantly the devastation she unleashed burned down an entire city block.

I don't know what it is with you and Maul but whenever you wank him, you go one step forward and then perform epic mental gymnastics. If you're going to do it right, could you not use feats that involve Anakin level potential or at least not solely relying on feats from a series that Lucas himself said aren't even possible?

Well there's kind of a difference between the Geonosian Arena and where Mace Windu was in the OCW.

But I mean what exactly is deemed exaggerated now? Are the comics/novels and all the games and their cutscenes exaggerated cause we didn't see anything like what they did in the movies?

ILS

AncientPower
OCW related media is essentially junked by TCW, basically. Canon or Legends. TCW related Legends material always retcons OCW related material. I'm pretty sure Leland even said OCW was N-canon prior to the Disney buyout but I can't find the quote.

ILS
In your mind, perhaps.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by AncientPower
Lmao @ Rivi Anu scaling.

Yeah, you can't scale characters off characters they don't get scaling off. Maul doesn't scale off rivi anu in any way. An absence of evidence for Rivi-Anu isn't sufficient here. If you're going to take that feat as combat applicable, it would place her above Maul, Kenobi, or basically anyone not named Mace, Anakin,or Yoda, all of whom are placed above her.

Furthermore, the showing was a last resort, full-effort expression of potential, I don't think she can replicate that readily. That said, you can't use the latter point to discredit the feat if you're going to try to scale characters off Vash's feat where she "lashed out" and expressed her potential which she never actually achieved.

Not that starting a fire is that impressive of a showing.

I wasn't aware we were restricting characters to what they've done in the movies,

TBH, trying to disqualify the micro series showings basedon being exaggerated and then taking stwor feats as valid sounds to me like:

ILS
Yeah, I'm sure someone who was just recently knighted and who gets taken out by blaster bolts which Ki-Adi-Mundi had no issues deflecting, is above Maul, Dooku, Kenobi etc. Makes so much sense.

https://imgur.com/a/6NYKD

Rockydonovang
Yeah, STWOR is just as junk as OCW is.
Que

AncientPower

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by ILS
No, sorry, it's not appealing to an exception, it's simply an observation that characters can be wrong about things; characters don't necessarily know their own limits when all the chips are down. Case-in-point, Windu thought Depa Billaba was his superior in lightsaber combat, he was wrong. At one point, Maul thought he could kill Sidious when previously he couldn't, just due to a change in circumstance, but it doesn't change the fact he was wrong.

All these circumtances presented feats that dispelled dubious notions. That's exactly why I originally asked the same for Obi Wan: if he's wrong, where's the evidence?



Oh, I completely agree with you. Except I consider the fact he never replicated the feat, in addition to the circumtances I explained in my previous post, enough evidence to conclude my point of view is, indeed, correct.



I, too, don't accept Obi Wan can do something he never did and tought he couldn't do.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by AncientPower
Do you have any idea how the Legends system even works? I'd advise Force and Destiny. It might be educational. Essentially, Legends are myths in Canon. .
So stwor is a myth, yeah, you don't have an argument.

ILS
@AP
Yeah, I'm perfectly aware that's how it works now. And considering nothing you have mentioned is even slightly congruent with canon, I'm not sure you have a leg to stand on.
OCW doesn't contradict legends. Mace army busting contradicts Canon during the Geonosis battle, as per the quote you posted. So nice job making another blunder.
So yeah, it's a shitty "feat."
I'm following exactly the same protocol as you and Neph; to quote "superior feats and scaling." Given that Maul and Kenobi definitely scale above padawan Anakin and mooks like Rivi-Anu, which there has been no refutation for, your argument is bust. Likewise, there is no proof Anakin or Rivi were in "Oneness" - in fact, Anakin is smiling in the next page after the dreadnought feat.

You're starting to sound unhinged again. I'm really hoping skillz, Ant or Deronn can pick up your slack.

ILS
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
All these circumtances presented feats that dispelled dubious notions. That's exactly why I originally asked the same for Obi Wan: if he's wrong, where's the evidence?I actually don't think there's enough proof to say Obi-Wan can do it or he's > Anakin at that time, as the feat occurs after Obi-Wan is shown to be Anakin's superior. Anakin could have caught up to Obi-Wan at that time. I'm simply disputing the idea that Obi-Wan's opinions and dialogue are more important than what we actually see these characters do.

That's fine. It's not what my argument ever relied on either way.

AncientPower
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
So stwor is a myth, yeah, you don't have an argument.

SWTOR's a far higher source you moron. Tons of SWTOR related material is actively placed in Canon. There are Revan references in TLJ. laughing out loud

More importantly, Disney doesn't touch their era, the TOR era is a continuation of Legends of which they have free reign to retcon whatever they please. TOR is the primary Legends source now.

ILS
Disney doesn't touch any of legends, they use it as a resource for ideas. There is no hierarchy within the legends themselves, because all of it is non-canon.

The only moron we can positively identify in this thread, AP, is you.

TenebrousWay
Originally posted by ILS
I'm simply disputing the idea that Obi-Wan's opinions and dialogue are more important than what we actually see these characters do.

That's not the idea I defended at all although I admit it's easy to get lost with AP cluttering the thread.

ILS
Fair enough. thumb up

TenebrousWay
thumb up

LordOfTheLight
Originally posted by TenebrousWay
All these circumtances presented feats that dispelled dubious notions. That's exactly why I originally asked the same for Obi Wan: if he's wrong, where's the evidence?

According to Wild Space, yeah, from an event like this, he thinks that he is more powerful than Yoda. At least if we go by "x character performs stuff that is huge and I doubt if even Yoda could do it" type kind of stuff.

ILS
This thread in a nutshell:

https://i.imgur.com/iLarJ2o.png
https://i.imgur.com/MDBstNl.png

Azronger
thumb uplaughing

Arcann dies.

AncientPower
Originally posted by ILS
Disney doesn't touch any of legends, they use it as a resource for ideas. There is no hierarchy within the legends themselves, because all of it is non-canon.

The only moron we can positively identify in this thread, AP, is you.

That's categorically wrong. Whilst none of it is Canon, SWTOR for instance has been confirmed to be its own universe that continues under the Legends banner. They have in fact gone so far as to say that SWTOR is untouched because they have no plans for visiting that era. There is an internalised hierarchy within Legends. You claim you've read Force and Destiny, and yet ignore what it actually says.

SunRazer
There's no hierarchy in Legends only, lmao.

ILS
Originally posted by AncientPower
That's categorically wrong. Whilst none of it is Canon, SWTOR for instance has been confirmed to be its own universe that continues under the Legends banner. They have in fact gone so far as to say that SWTOR is untouched because they have no plans for visiting that era. There is an internalised hierarchy within Legends. You claim you've read Force and Destiny, and yet ignore what it actually says.
I'd love to see you post the relevant material for SWTOR being "it's own universe" that is not subject to the same rules as the rest of the EU.

https://i.imgur.com/H9XCbjA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VJC4Tlk.png

Freedon Nadd
Pablo's message was in 2016. When did SWTOR guys confirm SWTOR is mostly its own expansion?

ILS
I'm not aware that anyone ever confirmed that. It's just part of legends.

AncientPower
Thana Vesh causing such devastation so as to burn down a city block as a child before two decades of 'prodigal' growth:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/1/17/Kaas_City.png

Yet she's not even more powerful than her own master who is sub-Dark Council. She also got wrecked by Act II Wrath:



Darth Qalar and Darth Victun reducing this citadel to rubble as an effect of their duel:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/b/b7/Imperial_IntelligenceHQ.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091116160537

Yet couldn't kill each other, so were executed thereafter by stronger members. They weren't even the most prominent members of the Dark Council in their time. Yet it's implied that the Dark Council as of SWTOR is the most competitive it's been. So pretty much every DC member in SWTOR of note we know of is capable of similar feats.

Wrath went through Masters Yonlach & Yul-Li, Yonlach single-handedly was considered so strong the Dark Council couldn't manage to get him killed. Who per Malavai Quinn, were more dangerous than an entire army of a 1,000 elite Republic forces, in which featured Jedi Knights as platoon leaders. All led by powerhouse great war veteran Generals with anti-Force user battle armor and weaponry. An army strong enough to kick the Sith Empire, including Darth Lachriss, off of Balmorra completely.

Then he thoroughly defeated Master Nomen Karr, who was considered the most dangerous opponent the Wrath had faced. Scaling him off of everything prior. He also defeated Darth Baras, and was a Jedi master who infiltrated the Sith empire and managed to escape the depths of Sith space single-handedly when Baras uncovered him.

He went through Master Wyellett faster than a cave collapsed, who is once again beyond any opponent the Wrath had faced prior. Not just considered so powerful that he's a living superweapon; nevermind the fact he defeated Darth Baras and took his lightsaber, but that's all before achieving decades of enlightenment where his power multiplied.

The next victim on this list is Darth Ekkage, Baras' sister, noted by the Wrath himself to be the most difficult opponent he's ever fought. She was so incredibly powerful and skilled that she could've won the war for the Empire and is considered quite possibly the greatest Sith assassin in history up until her time. This'd include Darth Sion, Darth Thanaton and more.

Then of course we have Darth Baras himself. Baras is incredible, he was a mere apprentice to Darth Decimus, being beaten by Nomen Karr and Wyellett and frankly nothing more than a possible equal to Great War Satele Shan. Until of course he bound the spirit of Darth Traya using a ritual. What this allowed him was not just the ability to use her powers to see the future with incredible accuracy, but to drain her powers over-all. Better yet, he made a deal with Sel-Makor to gain even more power. Strong enough in fact to bring Draagh back from the brink of death, heal him, and him even stronger than before, so much so that he could trap Darth Vowrawn with a death field that was destroying him by the second. He'd gained so much power that he was considered nigh indestructible and convinced some members of the Dark Council that he was the Voice of the Emperor. Obviously meaning he had the power to destroy the Dark Council single-handedly. Yet the Wrath engages Darth Baras and 'ruins' him in combat.

Then the Wrath grows more powerful through the war over Ilum, the battles against Soa and the World Razer, the battle of Makeb, the entire Dread war, and the Revanite war. Each of those battles/events are at least one year apart. All prior to facing the cataclysm of Ziost. Then he finally fights Arcann and:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140132/4873049-1766022748-zhOaT.gif

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140132/5372617-5755788469-giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/EboxKs7MHNpba/source.gif

Then Arcann gets vastly more powerful in KOTET, where he's gained the potential to overthrow Vaylin per Valkorion.

Not one ounce of Oneness scaling anywhere, Maul dies.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by AncientPower
Given how massively the main TOR characters scale above people like Thana Vesh.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Lmao @ Rivi Anu scaling.

I don't think I ever witnessed such flagrant double standard.

AncientPower
She's confirmed to be subservient to her master in all manner, she's actively looking for the strength to kill him. Yet her master is sub-DC.

Rivi Anu was experiencing Oneness and displayed a feat a few dozen times better than anything Maul did with telekinesis.

Totally comparable.

cs_zoltan
Thana Vesh after two decades of "prodigal growth" lost to non force sensitive scrubs at every corner. I suppose that nameless cathar waving a metal sword around also gets city busting scaling?

Also your precious Shitlander with the help of Havoc Squad couldn't beat a handful of droids and needed rescuing from peasants. So much for city busting laughing out loud

AncientPower
Maul meanwhile obviously bench-presses Venators and gets mauled by dogs. But let's not go about using logic when it applies to PT.

Sirion_Of_Doom
Originally posted by AncientPower
Maul meanwhile obviously bench-presses Venators and gets mauled by dogs. But let's not go about using logic when it applies to PT.
Proof that Rivi Anu experienced Oneness?

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by AncientPower
Maul meanwhile obviously bench-presses Venators and gets mauled by dogs. But let's not go about using logic when it applies to PT.

Nice try retard, but that's canon not legends. Meanwhile everything I said was in the same game erm

AncientPower
It's almost as if she was using her full potential and was desperate to save her friends. It's almost as if it'd be a massive outlier that puts her on Yoda tier otherwise.

AncientPower
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Nice try retard, but that's canon not legends. Meanwhile everything I said was in the same game erm

Oh I'm sorry, brain death anonymous, I must've been using the same logic ILS started this with in the first place. laughing out loud

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh I'm sorry, brain death anonymous, I must've been using the same logic ILS started this with in the first place. laughing out loud

Take it up with ILS then, I just find it funny how you want to discredit OCW because it's inconsistent with canon then wank the shit out of swtor that's not even consistent with itself.

Sirion_Of_Doom
Originally posted by AncientPower
It's almost as if she was using her full potential and was desperate to save her friends. It's almost as if it'd be a massive outlier that puts her on Yoda tier otherwise.
So conjecture. Got it.

Inconsistencies happen across all sources in Star Wars. Fact. The OCW is referenced by other canon (in Legends) sources, so clearly, its material should be considered. Let's not cherry pick because it doesn't align with our preferences.

SunRazer
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Take it up with ILS then, I just find it funny how you want to discredit OCW because it's inconsistent with canon then wank the shit out of swtor that's not even consistent with itself.

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AncientPower
I don't want to discredit OCW, I'm pointing out that OCW directly conflicts with Legends TCW material in numerous ways and that's more than enough of a reason to reconsider how much weight it really holds.

SWTOR is entirely different in many ways and isn't a saga era depiction.

Zenwolf
TCW shouldn't even be Legends in the first place(as a whole, minor things aside), it should just be Canon only while the Legends timeline has the CWMMP.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by AncientPower
Thana Vesh causing such devastation so as to burn down a city block as a child before two decades of 'prodigal' growth:

She involuntarily unleashed her potential and successfully managed to...
start a fire.

Impressive AP, most impressive.

Azronger
Originally posted by Zenwolf
TCW shouldn't even be Legends in the first place(as a whole, minor things aside), it should just be Canon only while the Legends timeline has the CWMMP.

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Rockydonovang
Originally posted by ILS
Yeah, I'm sure someone who was just recently knighted and who gets taken out by blaster bolts which Ki-Adi-Mundi had no issues deflecting, is above Maul, Dooku, Kenobi etc. Makes so much sense.

https://imgur.com/a/6NYKD
Why would we gauge telekinetic prowess based on blaster deflection rather than, you know, telekinetic prowess?

Not to mention I'm willing to bet that some of the stwor characters you're using this scaling to place kenobi and maul above also can deflect blaster fire better.

If you're going to take the feat as something Anu can replicate at will(because if it's simply an expression of potential, you can't scale from it), it being far more impressive than anything Kenobi or Maul have done would place her as more powerful than they are.

Her rank isn't remotely relevant. If she's stopping star destroyers with one hand, she clearly a prodigee, you'll need more than an absence of evidence here. In absence of scaling, the character who's demonstrated greater power should be taken to be more powerful.

You can't give characters scaling they don't get.

Geistalt
It was a Kaas City block. They're made of metal, and under constant rain. But lowball as much as you like. Whatever helps you feel good at night.

cs_zoltan
There's no need for that, Thana lowballs herself.

FreshestSlice
Thana is shit even by TOR standards, but let's keep pretending she's some all powerful god that could blow up city blocks.

Metal burns in fires too. It's like talking to a bunch of 9/11 truthers.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
TCW shouldn't even be Legends in the first place(as a whole, minor things aside), it should just be Canon only while the Legends timeline has the CWMMP.

No, because Legends only content, like the Jedi Path, involve TCW characters. TCW is in the same place as the movies.

Geistalt
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Thana is shit even by TOR standards True.

Child Thana's still done more impressive things with the Force than anything I've seen from Maul. Though I'm sure Maul's a better duelist.

This is why I have saber-only and Force-only rankings.

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