uatu invades hell

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leonidas
and mephisto wants him dead. can the watcher beat mephisto in hell?

zopzop
Nope.

leonidas
hmm, i dunnno man. there was some intimation that odin would be able to beat him. maybe rage knows what i'm talking about. it was during the arc where odin's soul was in the bag....and ghost rider also beat maephsito not too long ago. that was zarathos iirc (some of those gr's were hard to keep track of...) i'd put uatu in odin's category personally--maybe even slightly above. not sure who takes this tbh. it's close though imo. very very close.

TethAdamTheRock
Odin>uatu

zopzop
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, i dunnno man. there was some intimation that odin would be able to beat him. maybe rage knows what i'm talking about. it was during the arc where odin's soul was in the bag....and ghost rider also beat maephsito not too long ago. that was zarathos iirc (some of those gr's were hard to keep track of...) i'd put uatu in odin's category personally--maybe even slightly above. not sure who takes this tbh. it's close though imo. very very close.
I agree. I'd put Uatu in Odin's category (more or less), I think Starlin did too. The thing is, various writers have repeatedly mentioned that Hell Lord's are near omnipotent in their realms.

Remember that infamous scene where Mephisto catches Mjolnir, melts it to slag, then recreates it and throws it at Thor? People have stated that it was just an illusion but like I said before, he FOR SURE caught the hammer because it was in his hand the whole time he was talking to Thor. Even if you want to debate the slagging/recreating of the hammer, the fact that he caught it really isn't debatable. Zeus himself couldn't hold the hammer more than a split second and even this tiny feat shocked Thor. Mephisto had a whole conversation with Thor while he had Mjolnir in his grip. That's a monstrous feat IMHO.

darthgoober
Originally posted by zopzop
I agree. I'd put Uatu in Odin's category (more or less), I think Starlin did too. The thing is, various writers have repeatedly mentioned that Hell Lord's are near omnipotent in their realms.

Remember that infamous scene where Mephisto catches Mjolnir, melts it to slag, then recreates it and throws it at Thor? People have stated that it was just an illusion but like I said before, he FOR SURE caught the hammer because it was in his hand the whole time he was talking to Thor. Even if you want to debate the slagging/recreating of the hammer, the fact that he caught it really isn't debatable. Zeus himself couldn't hold the hammer more than a split second and even this tiny feat shocked Thor. Mephisto had a whole conversation with Thor while he had Mjolnir in his grip. That's a monstrous feat IMHO.
I'm pretty sure that in a couple of his encounters with Thor Meph has said that within his own realm he's NEARLY as powerful as Odin.

zopzop
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm pretty sure that in a couple of his encounters with Thor Meph has said that within his own realm he's NEARLY as powerful as Odin.
And later writers have state Hell Lords are near omnipotent in their realms. Talk is cheap. big grin

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by leonidas
maybe rage knows what i'm talking about.

Rage's Odin is TOAA level...

BruceSkywalker
Uatu watches as he gets slaughtered lol

Sin I AM
Mephisto is not all powerful in his realm

darthgoober
Originally posted by zopzop
And later writers have state Hell Lords are near omnipotent in their realms. Talk is cheap. big grin
And Odin's been stated as nigh omnipotent also. So yeah... 'bout the same level lol

Galan007
Didn't Galactus beat the 'omnipotent' Mephisto in his own realm rather decisively..?

zopzop
Originally posted by Galan007
Didn't Galactus beat the 'omnipotent' Mephisto in his own realm rather decisively..?
He 'beat' him by attempting to eat his realm. Prior to that, they were fighting on even terms.
Originally posted by darthgoober
And Odin's been stated as nigh omnipotent also. So yeah... 'bout the same level lol
This is what Mephisto thinks of Odin's most powerful enchantments :
https://s17.postimg.org/euej8xzpn/image.jpg https://s17.postimg.org/9izmo8lcr/image.jpg
Like I said, slagging and recreating Mjolnir isn't the feat here, lots' of people have destroyed the hammer. The feat is shitting all over Odin's enchantments : a) returning to Thor's hand and b) the "worthiness" clause.

For comparison's sake, here's classic Zeus vs Odin's enchantments :
https://s17.postimg.org/59uwm8xkr/5299767-thorzeus.jpg https://s17.postimg.org/r91b9gm4r/Tg_Ak_G.jpg
Thor is amazed Zeus was even able to halt it for an 'instant'.

This is someone, who according to THor, Odin 'counts as his equal' :
https://s17.postimg.org/o3gpix3ez/image.jpg

Later writers like Starlin agree :
https://s17.postimg.org/z31wultuz/Thanos-_Annual-1-_Interior.jpg

Galan007
Originally posted by zopzop
He 'beat' him by attempting to eat his realm. Prior to that, they were fighting on even terms. That's exactly my point. If Meph couldn't beat Galactus in his own realm, then we should probably stop acting like he's this omnipotent/unbeatable entity there. He's Galactus-level on a good day.

And for what it's worth, Odin has also given Galactus a damn good fight. So if the consensus is that Uatu is Odin-level, then I'd say the chances of him beating Meph are 50/50, tbh. thumb up

zopzop
Originally posted by Galan007
That's exactly my point. If Meph couldn't beat Galactus in his own realm, then we should probably stop acting like he's this omnipotent/unbeatable entity there. He's Galactus-level on a good day.

And for what it's worth, Odin has also given Galactus a damn good fight. So if the consensus is that Uatu is Odin-level, then I'd say the chances of him beating Meph are 50/50, tbh. thumb up
Difference is, Uatu isn't a warrior and has very few fights under his belt. Odin, Galactus, even Mephisto aren't afraid to get their hands dirty and they have a history of brawls to their names.

Sin I AM
Monies on Uatu. Mephisto is overrated

abhilegend
Adam Warlock has beaten Mephisto in his realm. So has Thor.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by abhilegend
Adam Warlock has beaten Mephisto in his realm. So has Thor.

This guy knows his stuff

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
Adam Warlock has beaten Mephisto in his realm. So has Thor.
Adam had the Soul Gem.

Regarding the fight with Thor, we've seen Mephisto one shot heralds outside his realm before and punk entire teams of heroes. He's also known to throw fights to get what he wants later.

leonidas
surfer has flat out overpowered mephisto too, but in the mephisto v the avengers series he was pretty uber. this is hard to say. uatu handled the rogue watcher aron by EXACTLY getting his hands dirty. that was a pretty awesome display of power from both watchers.

honestly i'm leaning towards a split here. that was also a hungry galactus that stalemated mephisto iirc....

zopzop
Originally posted by leonidas
surfer has flat out overpowered mephisto too,
He NEVER has without invoking 'soul purity' bullsh|t. If Mephisto wanted him dead, he could have killed him anytime he wanted to. He's already ONE shotted Surfer outside of Hell.

leonidas
https://imgur.com/a/U3ozm

ss admitted mephisto was stronger, but....still overpowered him anyway and mephisto could stop him, not through sheer power. i call that overpowering him, but i guess that might just be me. /shrug

regardless, mephisto acknowledged ss was a definite threat to him.

zopzop
Originally posted by leonidas
https://imgur.com/a/U3ozm

ss admitted mephisto was stronger, but....still overpowered him anyway and mephisto could stop him, not through sheer power. i call that overpowering him, but i guess that might just be me. /shrug

regardless, mephisto acknowledged ss was a definite threat to him.
Mephisto was toying with him, here he is when he's not dicking around:
https://s17.postimg.org/vvpgbn4m3/2527159-silver_surfer_judgement_day_44.jpg https://s17.postimg.org/y09tcqdyj/2527160-silver_surfer_judgement_day_45.jpg
One shotting Surfer outside of Hell. Something Tyrant, Tenebrous and Aegis, and I think Odin haven't done.

leonidas
lol toying with him? proof of that?? he tried and failed repeatedly against ss in that issue. your scans don't disprove or invalidate my own. it just shows that mephisto's level isn't consistent. one of the reasons his 'omnipotence' is challenged so often. thor embarrassed him:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-1442139

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-1442140

sure he has some good highs, but he has a lot of lows, enough to make this fight ANYTHING but a sure thing.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
Adam had the Soul Gem.

Regarding the fight with Thor, we've seen Mephisto one shot heralds outside his realm before and punk entire teams of heroes. He's also known to throw fights to get what he wants later.
So?

Mephisto fluctuates a lot, we get it.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor has a very favorable record against Mephisto. The implication from what we've seen, is that Mephisto would give a weakened Odin outside of his realm a good fight, and he doesn't want any business fighting a non-weakened Odin, period.

This is reinforced by Cul being > Mephisto and other Hell Lords. And Hela being equal or close to it against Mephisto (At least from the two showings that come to mind) and we know how she stacks up against Odin.

leonidas
mephisto was terrified by cul... anyway the more i read the more inclined to go with uatu i am for a majority. mephisto is just all over the map.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by leonidas
lol toying with him? proof of that?? he tried and failed repeatedly against ss in that issue. your scans don't disprove or invalidate my own. it just shows that mephisto's level isn't consistent. one of the reasons his 'omnipotence' is challenged so often. thor embarrassed him:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-1442139

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-1442140

sure he has some good highs, but he has a lot of lows, enough to make this fight ANYTHING but a sure thing.

Pics don't load.

Post direct links, please.

leonidas
huh. that's odd. maybe post from the book later. can't recall the issue # off the top of my head. it's where thor seals mephisto in a pit and calls it a day. lol

abhilegend
Thor 205 maybe.

Stoic
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, i dunnno man. there was some intimation that odin would be able to beat him. maybe rage knows what i'm talking about. it was during the arc where odin's soul was in the bag....and ghost rider also beat maephsito not too long ago. that was zarathos iirc (some of those gr's were hard to keep track of...) i'd put uatu in odin's category personally--maybe even slightly above. not sure who takes this tbh. it's close though imo. very very close.

A few people don't realize it, but the Rider in it's purest form can run with Sky Fathers. It's something that the people that have voted for Etrigan over Ghost Rider may not realize. Then again, I guess that it depends on the version being specified as well.

On topic, if we were using Galactus as a measuring stick, Uatu's chances of winning here should be a very tough sale.

Galan007
Originally posted by leonidas
huh. that's odd. maybe post from the book later. can't recall the issue # off the top of my head. it's where thor seals mephisto in a pit and calls it a day. lol Thor #205 (1972):
https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37305118_16.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37305119_17.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37305120_18.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37305121_19.jpg

leonidas
https://i.imgur.com/d3Os2lG.gif

leonidas
Originally posted by Stoic
A few people don't realize it, but the Rider in it's purest form can run with Sky Fathers. It's something that the people that have voted for Etrigan over Ghost Rider may not realize. Then again, I guess that it depends on the version being specified as well.

On topic, if we were using Galactus as a measuring stick, Uatu's chances of winning here should be a very tough sale.

depends as always what state g was in, and turns out i was right. ss and nova fought and saved the planet g was ready to devour so he was def in a hungry state. he even tells mephisto himself in the battle that he he hungry as he begins to devour hell. g was def at less than optimum levels imo when he faced off with mephisto, adding further doubt to the levels of 'omnipotence' he actually has in hell. i'd rank him below odin for certain, which to me would be mean uatu could probably beat him.

Mindset
Uatu is getting that big ass head rocked.

zopzop
Originally posted by leonidas
huh. that's odd. maybe post from the book later. can't recall the issue # off the top of my head. it's where thor seals mephisto in a pit and calls it a day. lol
Mephisto has ONE SHOT opponents that have given Thor a good fight. The Surfer one was already posted, here he is one shotting Wonder Man :
https://s17.postimg.org/tcvj9dwdn/RCO017.jpg
So him being beaten by Thor by being buried in lava is obvious BS. More over, he's done better against the Avengers than Zeus himself. He's causally owned She Hulk/Photon/Iron Man/Wonder Man/Black Knight/etc.. The Black Knight one is huge because even the Ebony BLade was powerless vs Mephisto's Hell fire, yet it absorbed and redirected Zeus' ligthening with ease.
Compare this
https://s17.postimg.org/70xqg3cq3/0b9_JAIL.png
to this
https://s17.postimg.org/rl2kejpwb/RCO010.jpg

Mephisto THROWS FIGHTS for sh|ts and giggles which would easily explain his low showings. More on this later.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor has a very favorable record against Mephisto. The implication from what we've seen, is that Mephisto would give a weakened Odin outside of his realm a good fight, and he doesn't want any business fighting a non-weakened Odin, period.

This is reinforced by Cul being > Mephisto and other Hell Lords. And Hela being equal or close to it against Mephisto (At least from the two showings that come to mind) and we know how she stacks up against Odin.
Mephisto played Hela for a fool on at least one of those occasions for laughs. She couldn't even break the mystic barrier Mephisto placed on Thor. She runs away to try and uses the Avengers as a distraction. Mephisto owns the Avengers, finds Hela, and forces her back against her will :
https://s17.postimg.org/rxtykwnnf/RCO014.jpg https://s17.postimg.org/cp41751or/RCO016.jpg https://s17.postimg.org/akjo627rv/RCO019.jpg

And just when Hela thinks she won :
https://s17.postimg.org/6o6ca57dn/RCO026.jpg

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Galan007
Thor #205 (1972):
https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37305118_16.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37305119_17.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37305120_18.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37305121_19.jpg

Thanks thumb up

basilisk
Interesting fight and some interesting scans.

Mephisto is very hard to judge because at times he seems to be able to do anything and there is the whole hell lords "omnipotent in their own realms" thing.

But the fact is that people have beaten him in his realm. Galactus threatened to destroy hell with Mephisto seemingly unable to stop it. Surfer beat him (OK yes that was due to 'goodness'), Warlock defeated him in hell, and Thor has managed to come out on top at least two or three times with Mephisto even basically saying he couldn't beat the thunder god. Mephisto even tried to consume Thor's soul and it was so strong it broke free.

I also wondered about the hammer slagging incident and if it was possibly just an illusion. After all, Meph outright states he is not engaging in a physical fight but is trying to destroy Thor's will and spirit - and immediately follows up with illusion of Odin. Also, in other fights with Thor, Mephisto is clearing seen trying to avoid the hammer throws and trying other means of stopping it.

As for Zeus, well it is possible he just tried to use physical strength to hold it and was surprised he couldn't. Do we know for certain in those brief moments if he really exerted his full skyfather power to break/halt the enchantment? He didn't exactly seem to be going all out there.

Mephisto also has other low showings such as being captured by Black Panther.

Basically, Mephisto is all over the place and you never know what he is really doing or pretending or whatever. And maybe the writers shouldn't have him getting into fights with earth heroes because it inevitably makes him look bad.

That said, the Watcher is powerful and I don't think Meph can simply take his soul, however I can see Uatu getting into the same situation as Galactus did but without the ability to consume the realm to win out. This also recalls the Stranger vs Pluto in hell fight - Stranger was powerful, and Pluto had to draw on the power of his realm several times to keep fighting, but eventually Stranger had to call on help.

So edge to Mephisto. Outside of hell the fight is perhaps different.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by basilisk
Interesting fight and some interesting scans.

Mephisto is very hard to judge because at times he seems to be able to do anything and there is the whole hell lords "omnipotent in their own realms" thing.

But the fact is that people have beaten him in his realm. Galactus threatened to destroy hell with Mephisto seemingly unable to stop it. Surfer beat him (OK yes that was due to 'goodness'), Warlock defeated him in hell, and Thor has managed to come out on top at least two or three times with Mephisto even basically saying he couldn't beat the thunder god. Mephisto even tried to consume Thor's soul and it was so strong it broke free.

I also wondered about the hammer slagging incident and if it was possibly just an illusion. After all, Meph outright states he is not engaging in a physical fight but is trying to destroy Thor's will and spirit - and immediately follows up with illusion of Odin. Also, in other fights with Thor, Mephisto is clearing seen trying to avoid the hammer throws and trying other means of stopping it.

As for Zeus, well it is possible he just tried to use physical strength to hold it and was surprised he couldn't. Do we know for certain in those brief moments if he really exerted his full skyfather power to break/halt the enchantment? He didn't exactly seem to be going all out there.

Mephisto also has other low showings such as being captured by Black Panther.

Basically, Mephisto is all over the place and you never know what he is really doing or pretending or whatever. And maybe the writers shouldn't have him getting into fights with earth heroes because it inevitably makes him look bad.

That said, the Watcher is powerful and I don't think Meph can simply take his soul, however I can see Uatu getting into the same situation as Galactus did but without the ability to consume the realm to win out. This also recalls the Stranger vs Pluto in hell fight - Stranger was powerful, and Pluto had to draw on the power of his realm several times to keep fighting, but eventually Stranger had to call on help.

So edge to Mephisto. Outside of hell the fight is perhaps different.

Good post

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