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Angel and Buffy vs Cap (MCU). Comic feats are allowed for Buffy and Angel at normal power levels.

Who wins?

Cap

It's been a while so I'll probably have to go back for feats but I'm pretty sure either one solo's Cap.

Make it Buffy and Cap vs Angel.

Angel still wins, but at least it's marginally closer.

What? Buffy kicked the shit out of Angel quite a few times.

Why do you know all of this?

Two-on-one is rather spite-y against Steve IMO. While I might not hold as high an opinion of Angel as some others, he'd still be able to give Steve a go solo. Same with Buffy. Together, they kick his ass.

I haven't seen BtVS or Angel in years, but from what I recall, Steve is basically Buffy x2. IIRC Angel actually had some pretty sick feats, (even better than Buffy's despite her beating him) especially in the damage soak department. Didn't he get launched off the roof of a building, and basically walk it off?

That being said, I'd still give it to the duo, mainly because their is two of them.

@ SquallX

Can't seem to quote you right now. But my post literally said he could give Steve a go solo, so not sure why you said I think he doesn't measure up. It's the entire reason I said that making it two-on-one feels like spite.

Angel sucking blood from Buffy would amp him a fair bit, probably Steve's would have the same effect so the conditions are great for Angel to be considered as amped by all intents on purposes.

Without amps Angel would still put up a mean fight.

Abhi is right here.

Angellous did try to kill Faith, but lost fair and square.

And not only did he repeatedly lose to Buffy on her show, but he was heavily implied to be her inferior on his own show too.

Now if things changed in the comics, then you are welcome to point them out.


As of the Tv shows though, Cap vs this duo will be a pretty even fight, unless Angel manages to suck his blood, which will make it a stomp for the duo.


Edit- dont know if Comic Angel kept his amp from the finale.

The ONLY time Buffy and Angel/Angelus had a serious fight without love getting in the way, with both going for the kill, was at the end of Buffy season 2 and Buffy beat the everloving crap out of him.

Every other dust-up between the two had emotional baggage all over the place and/or they never really wanted to hurt each other.

Buffy's stats should be above Cap across the board, but TV FX sadly don't have the budget of movie FX, so feats are few and far between. but here's a couple:
She kicked Reilly clear across the room during sparring while still holding back
The troll hammer incident that was already mentioned
Effortlessly bending a shotgun barrel belonging to a werewolf hunter
Effortlessly (again) picks up a steal I-Beam at her construction job after the guy warns her they weigh hundreds of pounds

Originally posted by Scoobless
The ONLY time Buffy and Angel/Angelus had a serious fight without love getting in the way, with both going for the kill, was at the end of Buffy season 2 and Buffy beat the everloving crap out of him.

Every other dust-up between the two had emotional baggage all over the place and/or they never really wanted to hurt each other.

Buffy's stats should be above Cap across the board, but TV FX sadly don't have the budget of movie FX, so feats are few and far between. but here's a couple:
She kicked Reilly clear across the room during sparring while still holding back
The troll hammer incident that was already mentioned
Effortlessly bending a shotgun barrel belonging to a werewolf hunter
Effortlessly (again) picks up a steal I-Beam at her construction job after the guy warns her they weigh hundreds of pounds
None of that puts her above Cap though.

Except maybe the troll hammer one because I don't remember that well.

To recap on the Buffyverse facts here:

1. Buffy is stronger than Angel, he flat out says it and has no reason to lie, and she's beaten him more times than the reverse.

2. Buffy is not significantly stronger than Angel. We've seen them fight plenty of times and Angel fares pretty well and he has the feats on his own show to compete.

3. Angel is faster and more durable than she is, though, by virtue of being a vampire.

4. Angel vs. Faith in season 1 of Angel was a fairly contentious battle. He restrained himself, she went all out to try to goad and piss him off enough to kill her.

5. Angelus vs. Faith in season 4 of Angel was also fairly contentious. Neither of them were, for the most part, trying to kill each other. She wanted to bring him in alive to restore his soul and was drugged, he was largely toying with her in typical Angelus style.

6. Angel vs. Spike in season 5 was fairly close, but Spike did decisively win the fight. However, that was directly attributable to motivation: Spike wanted the cup more and fought harder for it. The same script also says that was the first and only time Spike ever defeated Angel in their fights. Which is why, at the end of season 5, when Spike, Gunn, Wesley, and Lorne all confront Angel in his office, he beats the hell out of all of them and disarms them.

As someone who's thoroughly acquainted with both shows, the general hierarchy is Buffy > Faith > Angel > Spike and they're all close enough to pose a challenge.

Originally posted by Scoobless

Buffy's stats should be above Cap across the board, but TV FX sadly don't have the budget of movie FX, so feats are few and far between. but here's a couple:
She kicked Reilly clear across the room during sparring while still holding back
The troll hammer incident that was already mentioned
Effortlessly bending a shotgun barrel belonging to a werewolf hunter
Effortlessly (again) picks up a steal I-Beam at her construction job after the guy warns her they weigh hundreds of pounds



Thats a BS excuse about the FX budget.

Hercules and Xena easily displayed physical stats equivalent to Cap years earlier.

Nothing you have listed surpasses Caps best strength feats. But his speed, durability and agility is Massively above hers. Massively. Not even comparable.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Why do you know all of this?

I have to admit, I have watched a ton of Buffy and Angel too lol. I love the shows.

Originally posted by Surtur
I have to admit, I have watched a ton of Buffy and Angel too lol. I love the shows.

Even with all the misandry?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Even with all the misandry?

Lol well..Joss Whedon can still write some interesting characters and create interesting universes.

Plus I like Giles. And Angel wasn't as bad with that.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol well..Joss Whedon can still write some interesting characters and create interesting universes.

Plus I like Giles.

At least you didn't say that you liked Spike.

Spike was cool at first. Then he became...I guess what we would now call a cuck.

Originally posted by Surtur
Spike was cool at first. Then he became...I guess what we would now call a cuck.

He might have been a good evil villain, but since he was popular with the female fans, they turned him into a love interest and just basically ignored or made excuses for all the evil things he did. both before and after he started helping.

Originally posted by Silent Master
He might have been a good evil villain, but since he was popular with the female fans, they turned him into a love interest and just basically ignored or made excuses for all the evil things he did. both before and after he started helping.

Yeah...he got better on Angel lol. Less p*ssy whipped. Though I guess if there was a p*ssy to be whipped to..

Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah...he got better on Angel lol. Less p*ssy whipped. Though I guess if there was a p*ssy to be whipped to..

The guy is a rapist, they never should have made him a good guy, hell. I've been told he and Buffy are currently together in the comics.

Originally posted by Silent Master
The guy is a rapist, they never should have made him a good guy, hell. I've been told he and Buffy are currently together in the comics.

He's not a rapist. It's complicated lol. He did all that when he was a soul less demon. When he got his soul he wasn't evil anymore.

I will also admit I have read the comics, but only like season 8 and 9. I did enjoy it, I just haven't kept up with it, this conversation is making me want to. There is one point where Buffy becomes Superman-like in terms of power levels, so does Angel(calling himself Twilight), I think they then have sex and it creates monsters from a universe? It was weird. Then suddenly Buffy was bisexual. Then she was saying that deep down she always felt she'd be with Xander, but he wants Dawn. It's weird, but I liked it.

Anyways as to the fight, one problem is speed. Angel, at times, has shown insane speed, but he never uses it in combat. But somehow he can exit a vehicle in the blink of an eye without you even hearing the door close.

And he can do that whole "be in one place and suddenly he is in another" type stuff. But only one vampire I recall ever used speed in combat, it was Penn, the only vampire Angelus created. Yes, I remember all this lol.

So he technically has the capability to attack Cap before he can react. And he has enough damage soak to get tossed off buildings and get up pretty quickly.

Originally posted by Surtur
He's not a rapist. It's complicated lol. He did all that when he was a soul less demon. When he got his soul he wasn't evil anymore.

I will also admit I have read the comics, but only like season 8 and 9. I did enjoy it, I just haven't kept up with it, this conversation is making me want to. There is one point where Buffy becomes Superman-like in terms of power levels, so does Angel(calling himself Twilight), I think they then have sex and it creates monsters from a universe? It was weird. Then suddenly Buffy was bisexual. Then she was saying that deep down she always felt she'd be with Xander, but he wants Dawn. It's weird, but I liked it.

He never showed remorse even after getting his soul back.

But like you said, back to the topic.

Angel was the original Ed Cullen. Centuries-old creeper, going after teenage girls.

Buffy did love her some necrophilia.

Buffy was suffering from massive mental trauma at the time and there was no way she could be considered able to legally consent. Just more proof that Spike was a rapist.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Buffy was suffering from massive mental trauma at the time and there was no way she could be considered able to legally consent. Just more proof that Spike was a rapist.
Yeah, spike even says that.

I never liked either Spike or Angel on Buffy. On Angel both became far better characters.

My favorite were always Buffy and Wesley on respective shows.

Angel spent around a century wallowing in his misery, until he fell lust with jailbait.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Angel was the original Ed Cullen. Centuries-old creeper, going after teenage girls.

It's even creepier when you find out Angel was spying on her even before she came to Sunnydale. First saw her when she was like 15 and it is implied he fell in love with her at that moment, lol.

Yep, he's a borderline hebephile.

Obviously it goes without saying that Angel is deeply, deeply flawed...

But he tried to kill Wesley because he was (a) super pissed because (b) Wesley acted treacherously and dishonestly (for good reasons, no doubt) and his actions led to Connor being trapped in Qor'toth.

And he later did forgive him.

This thread went into an entertaining tangent. And I am being serious. Haven't seen an in-depth Buffy/Angel discussion in ages.

Originally posted by Surtur
Spike was cool at first. Then he became...I guess what we would now call a cuck.

The dude was about to rape Buffy. He felt guilty about it and got re-souled. That's not being a cuck. That's being a decent human be...err, vampire.

He didn't really feel all that guilty. He was just obsessed with Buffy and knew that getting a soul was his best chance of renewing a relationship that only existed because he manipulated someone suffering from a massive case of PTSD.

Spike was a rapist long before that failed rape episode.

I haven't seen the episode in a while, but when he went into that cave in the last episode of S6 to get his soul back, I remember him looking all broken up. Maybe with guilt, maybe not, but he was definitely after some kind of redemption.

He was broken up because he couldn't have Buffy, the woman he was obsessed with. He has never been about Redemption for redemptions sake, it was always so he can get what he wanted.

Maybe it was a mixture of both selfishness and remorse? I thought the entire point of the later seasons was that Spike still had good in him. He's still a monster, but the fact that he got tortured by Glorificus and didn't tell her that Dawn was The Key showed that he had SOME level of integrity.

Spike pulled something similar when Dru left him. He said it himself, he's loves *****. Take Buffy out of the equation and he never would have tried getting his soul back.