Shazam Vs Snowbird

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riv6672
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/2960433-1.jpg

No prep.
No BFR.
Pre New52 Shazam.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c0/fa/0e/c0fa0eb1aec78ecb4dcf39eb98e5b1bf.jpg

TethAdamTheRock
Snowbird if she turns into that demon thingy

Sin I AM
snowbird ftw....good fight though

riv6672
Nice, didnt know SB would win so definitively against a Superman level character, thanks guys.

zopzop
Originally posted by riv6672
Nice, didnt know SB would win so definitively against a Superman level character, thanks guys.
He's not a Superman level character, that's why she wins after a good fight.

riv6672
Agree to disagree.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by zopzop
He's not a Superman level character, that's why she wins after a good fight.

i really like Marvel too. I wish he got more respect, my favorite version was KC

riv6672
^^^That was a great, tragic version, of him. Good choice.

zopzop
Originally posted by Sin I AM
i really like Marvel too. I wish he got more respect, my favorite version was KC
Yup, I even liked Mary Marvel too. She got mad respect in the 90s despite the fact that she was on a 'light hearted' team (Formerly Known as the Justice League). Then it all went down hill for her and her family. Oh well. DC's loss.

panthergod
Captain Marvel wins. Clearly.

leonidas
his resistance to magic would make this his fight to lose for sure imo, regardless of the form she took.

zopzop
Originally posted by leonidas
his resistance to magic would make this his fight to lose for sure imo, regardless of the form she took.
Nah :
https://s17.postimg.org/cg2ttu26z/1015919-incredible_hercules_119_zone_megan_pg20.jpg

MrMind
Shazam was the wizard before flashpoint

anyways... CM wins without difficulty

Rage.Of.Olympus
I think Captain Marvel (Pre-Flashpoint) would win a comfortable majority. Obviously, if Snowbird starts transforming into the forms of the Great Beasts, it's a game changer, that's almost more of a Justice League type threat, but that's not very likely 90% of the time.

riv6672
^^^Fighting in character is still in play, so yeah.

-K-M-

-K-M-
Originally posted by MrMind
Shazam was the wizard before flashpoint

anyways... CM wins without difficulty

Yes. Also Captain Marvel Jr became Shazam around same time too. Sure for this thread means standard Billy

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/freddy-freeman-recruits-shadowpact-trials-of-shazam-1.png

I miss the old Marvel Family sad

tkitna
Originally posted by -K-M-

I miss the old Marvel Family sad

Me too. I always liked Captain Marvel Jr's blue costume.

http://iv1.lisimg.com/image/7665031/500full-captain-marvel-jr..jpg

leonidas
Originally posted by zopzop
Nah :
https://s17.postimg.org/cg2ttu26z/1015919-incredible_hercules_119_zone_megan_pg20.jpg

meh, it's a giant monster. maybe it wins, but even in that form i don't see it as being a sure thing. and she's not likely to take any god forms anyway so it's pretty moot. regardless, the guy walks through the thunderbolt's magic, so whatever magical being he comes up against, i like his odds if he's fighting to win.

of course, that isn't the current version, who i've seen precious little of. /shrug

zopzop
Originally posted by leonidas
meh, it's a giant monster. maybe it wins, but even in that form i don't see it as being a sure thing. and she's not likely to take any god forms anyway so it's pretty moot. regardless, the guy walks through the thunderbolt's magic, so whatever magical being he comes up against, i like his odds if he's fighting to win.

of course, that isn't the current version, who i've seen precious little of. /shrug
It's not the giant monster. It's the tentacles tearing the giant monster apart big grin
But irregardless, she would own the sh|t out of him in that form. She took out an entire army of enslaved gods that were causing Demogorge and crew problems. Hell, when she warned them to flee, Demogorge RAN.

-K-M-

-K-M-

riv6672
^^^nice!
I'd like to see that pitted against CMs lightning.

leonidas
sure, i'll bite. magic has absolutely worked on him in the past, and failed miserably in the past. regardless, what has she done in a great beast form aside from becoming really big that says she kills a near superman level character? assuming of course she does take that form to begin with which i still think is extremely unlikely, moreso given that she's facing a single opponent.

riv6672
All good questions.

zopzop
Originally posted by leonidas
sure, i'll bite. magic has absolutely worked on him in the past, and failed miserably in the past. regardless, what has she done in a great beast form aside from becoming really big that says she kills a near superman level character? assuming of course she does take that form to begin with which i still think is extremely unlikely, moreso given that she's facing a single opponent. Originally posted by riv6672
All good questions.
I already addressed this in my previous post. In her Great Beast form, she took on (and beat) an army of enslaved Gods that were overwhelming the God Squad (which included Demogorge and I assume you'll agree he's MORE powerful than Superman). When she told them to flee because she couldn't control herself in that form, Demogorge himself cut and ran.

She destroys any herald level character in Great Beast form.

EDIT :
CM is NOT a Superman level character either.

-K-M-

-K-M-
Also to note snowbirds god blast stopped the great beasts who the Chaos King and his god army were LOSING against. NO GODS sans super god Hercules did anything close to that feat

zopzop
Originally posted by -K-M-
Also to note snowbirds god blast stopped the great beasts who the Chaos King and his god army were LOSING against. NO GODS sans super god Hercules did anything close to that feat
thumb up

leonidas
so the great beasts>chaos king, and her god blast>the great beasts? is that the allusion being made here...?

and she didn't beat that pack of gods. the whole point was she willingly sacrificed herself to buy time for the team. she also seemingly died (at the time) while fighting them, and the others took off BECAUSE of her sacrifice. all she did in that form was buy them time. not saying it wasn't an impressive form, but from that scene it was hard to tell exactly WHAT it was able to do. how it was that she later reappeared alive i'm not sure was ever explained--at least i don't think i've seen the explanation. maybe had to do with herc's defeat of the skrull god?

afaik the beasts have some good feats and some...less than great feats. so what can she do as a beast exactly? been a long while since i looked back at some of those issues, but this sounds suddenly like snowbird is>>skyfathers and zop's allusion is crystal clear--snowbird>>demogorge too. lol

-K-M-

juggernaut74
He will always be Captain Marvel to me.

-K-M-

juggernaut74

leonidas
oh yeah, the insects.... forgot. thumb up

i'm not buying the comparison of that blast. i've def not read that book so i'm not sure of the context, but if you take that at face value she's what....>>>chaos king? i KNOW you're not suggesting that so how do we view the feat? one off? contextually based? i dunno.

i'm not really downplaying the feat. what appears to have happened is that she became huge and engaged them in a purely physical battle. she was able to hold her own because she became...overwhelmingly large and had...lots of biting mouths? she was huge, and DID hold them off but in that form she didn't really demonstrate any 'power'. i dunno. the durability of those things was basically unknown too but they felt like fodder. anyway, here is the whole scene for those who haven't seen it:

https://imgur.com/a/FALc0

she only took the form because the situation was dire as well. pretty sure the demogorge wasn't at his eating elder gods level either. he was rather disappointing the entire arc tbh.

anyway, maybe scans of her in beast form and some of the things she's done in those forms so people can see for themselves.

riv6672
Originally posted by zopzop
EDIT :
CM is NOT a Superman level character either.
Again, agree to disagree.

One Big Mob
I agree with Mungi, Shazam wins easily.

-K-M-

-K-M-
Originally posted by One Big Mob
I agree with Mungi, Shazam wins easily.

Actually did say that on page 1 stick out tongue

-K-M-
Can't edit my post, but the same God Army you said were fodder steamrolled through every pantheon in the universe. Earth and alien (Shi'ar and the gods of Zenn-La). Even God Squad II didn't do as good against the army. They were FAR from fodder seeing what the actually accomplished.

God Squad II fought Chaos King and his army around the same time between Chaos War #3-4. Panther God (Black Panther's God) was easily killed by 6 "fodder" slave gods for example. Master Pandemonium I think was killed by one

One Big Mob
Originally posted by -K-M-
Can't edit my post, but the same God Army you said were fodder steamrolled through every pantheon in the universe. Earth and alien (Shi'ar and the gods of Zenn-La). Even God Squad II didn't do as good against the army. They were FAR from fodder seeing what the actually accomplished.

God Squad II fought Chaos King and his army around the same time between Chaos War #3-4. Panther God (Black Panther's God) was easily killed by 6 "fodder" slave gods for example good point. Shazam is pretty impressive for beating her here.

-K-M-
Originally posted by One Big Mob
good point. Shazam is pretty impressive for beating her here.

thumb up

zopzop
Originally posted by One Big Mob
I agree with Mungi, Shazam wins easily.
Holy Sh|t, welcome back Bran!

leonidas
what book was that blast in? or if you have some scans showing the beasts, weakened, were winning, that would be something i guess. still, we know ck was weaker at the start but this seems to come when he was pretty powerful, so.... again, i dunno what to make of that. let's just say i'm not willing to say she can at will call up a blast that is greater than the ck's powers. makes no sense in...any way at all, tbh, so we can simply agree to disagree with it. at least until i actually read the story. even then, at most i'd call it an outlier and not something usable in a forum setting. /shrug

again, the monster. the gods did actually DO anything save attack her physically. the only reason they were beating the squad was because of overwhelming numbers. she became a massive giant creature and attacked them physically back. could someone like superman or in this case, cm, move at light speed and simply pierce her brain? heart? i dunno. maybe not. would someone with superman's durability, or cm's against magic, simply be 'eaten' by those teeth? again, i dunno, but i have a hard time seeing it happen for some reason.

could i see cm hurting demogorge? absolutely, especially as he was portrayed in that arc. those random gods hurt him more than once. again, not very impressive in that arc at all. he had tons of chances to consume gods and didn't do it for whatever reason. when he consumes he grows in power, so no, i don't think he WAS meant to be shown at the height of his power. clearly. since even elder gods were terrified of him....what level was he at? i dunno, but not much past the others imo.

could i see cm taking on that horde? no, but again, if he could grow to the size of snowbird's monster, that would be something very different. there was a non-canon story where he DID grow huge--THAT version i think could replicate that feat for sure. punched so hard he made a black hole iirc. or something like that.

anyway, i mentioned some feats of hers while in beast form, but didn't see any. if she fears it, then its even LESS likely she would assume it. how many times has she done it, and what HAS she done as a beast, outside the god squad?

anyway, i know you said she loses this more often than not, so this is just passing the time for me, but i am curious about her as a beast....

-K-M-
going to have to split posts up as wont let me quote erm
===================================
"what book was that blast in? or if you have some scans showing the beasts, weakened, were winning, that would be something i guess. still, we know ck was weaker at the start but this seems to come when he was pretty powerful, so.... again, i dunno what to make of that. let's just say i'm not willing to say she can at will call up a blast that is greater than the ck's powers. makes no sense in...any way at all, tbh, so we can simply agree to disagree with it. at least until i actually read the story. even then, at most i'd call it an outlier and not something usable in a forum setting. /shrug"
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Blast happened in Chaos War - Alpha Flight #1. Here it talks about the Great Beasts WERE NOT at full power against Chaos King and his army. That's why they needed AF to buy time so the 20min timelimit ran out. As mentioned happened between Chaos War #3-4 so yeah he was pretty powerful

1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight005.jpg
2. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight006.jpg
3. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight014.jpg

Here's the entire fight If they wern't betrayed by Snowbird they very may have defeated the Chaos King and his army. They were stated to be winning. We will never know though.

1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight005.jpg
2. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight006.jpg
3. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight007.jpg
4. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight008.jpg
5. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight009.jpg
6. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight010.jpg
7. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight011.jpg
8. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight012.jpg
9. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight013.jpg
10. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight014.jpg
11. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight015-16.jpg
12. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight017-18.jpg
13. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight019.jpg
14. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight020.jpg
15. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight021.jpg
16. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight022.jpg
17. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight023.jpg

Another example the power of the beasts they even amped the dead members of Alpha Flight in power (ones died against Collective +Marrina). Though Tanraq alone made each member of the Crew to be planet busters in Omega Flight.

1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/ChaosWar-AlphaFlight014.jpg

I apologize if some scans don't work but photobucket has blocked most of my links. They don't allow third party hosting.

Doesnt mean her god blast could beat CK. Maybe temp stop him . I actually said on page one I don't see her busting it out here. However, I do find it funny when others have "space cheese" feats it seems far more excepted then when members of Alpha Flight do it. lowball tsk tsk

Any way you look at it Great Beasts did FAR better then any pantheon against CK and his army.
===================================
"again, the monster. the gods did actually DO anything save attack her physically. the only reason they were beating the squad was because of overwhelming numbers. she became a massive giant creature and attacked them physically back. could someone like superman or in this case, cm, move at light speed and simply pierce her brain? heart? i dunno. maybe not. would someone with superman's durability, or cm's against magic, simply be 'eaten' by those teeth? again, i dunno, but i have a hard time seeing it happen for some reason.
===================================
Not at all, even just a few numbers were getting the better of them. So again how are you still trying to downplay the feat. Even if you say oh it's not impressive they got overwhelmed by numbers....Snowbird didnt. As I said earlier the God Army you said were fodder steamrolled through every pantheon in the universe. Earth and alien (Shi'ar and the gods of Zenn-La). Even God Squad II didn't do as good against the army.

God Squad II fought Chaos King and his army around the same time between Chaos War #3-4. Panther God (Black Panther's God) was easily killed by 6 "fodder" slave gods for example They were FAR from fodder seeing what the actually accomplished.

Also seeing magic is bad against Superman and Snowbird was ripping apart magical beings I'm not seeing your comparison here. Superman move at lightspeed to take out the god army? mmmhmmm. Taking a slippery slope Leo if your trying to use outliers for CM and Superman how is this not fair play her using her god blasts or god forms?

zopzop
Quick question, was it ever explained WHY the Great Beasts are so powerful? Are they considered Elder Gods? Minor Abstracts? What?

-K-M-
===================================
could i see cm hurting demogorge? absolutely, especially as he was portrayed in that arc. those random gods hurt him more than once. again, not very impressive in that arc at all. he had tons of chances to consume gods and didn't do it for whatever reason. when he consumes he grows in power, so no, i don't think he WAS meant to be shown at the height of his power. clearly. since even elder gods were terrified of him....what level was he at? i dunno, but not much past the others imo.
===================================

Portrayed in the arc? He wasn't actually portrayed poorly. Skrull Goddess was the perfect kryptonite for him. Do we think Superman is weak when his weakness is exposed? Far from it. Only other "low" showing was being hurt by the alien god. Once again remind you the same god army killed ALL THE EARTH GODS/ELDER GODS/ALIEN GODS/DEMONS/DEVILS etc. in the entire MULTIVERSE. Even just a few nonamed slave gods were easily killing several Earth pantheon gods. Not sure why your low balling them.

Oh and Demo WAS eating the slave gods too. We see him bitting the heads off them

===================================
could i see cm taking on that horde? no, but again, if he could grow to the size of snowbird's monster, that would be something very different. there was a non-canon story where he DID grow huge--THAT version i think could replicate that feat for sure. punched so hard he made a black hole iirc. or something like that.
===================================

size eh? you seem to think that's the greatest advantage and the only reason why she did so well. If size actually mattered Giant Man/Altas would be the most powerful hero. Size only gets you so far you need POWER to do what she did. If size mattered how did the other gret beasts do so well when they werent even a fraction of the size. It's about power. Not even Galactus did that well against the God Army.

If were using non-canon stories Snowbird easily BFR an Elder God *shrugs*. Stick to canon stories please.
===================================
"anyway, i mentioned some feats of hers while in beast form, but didn't see any. if she fears it, then its even LESS likely she would assume it. how many times has she done it, and what HAS she done as a beast, outside the god squad?"

Yes she does, but ever since she came back from the "dead" she doesn't care as much and has been doing it more and more lately. As I said earlier she very likely WOULDN'T use it here. She has transformed into a great beast twelve times or so.

This is her biggest feat taking a form of a Great Beast. Other times she became Tanaraq and ripped out Tanaraq's avatar's heart. When she became Nanook she just swatted some great beasts around. As Tundra only did it briefly to trick Ranark, the Great Beast servent

As since day one she becomes what she transforms. power and all. Here Snowbird takes the form of the mystical Thunderbird of native American myth. She even shoots out lightening out of her mouth

1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlight03pg10copy.jpg
2. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlight03pg11copy.jpg
3. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlight03pg13copy.jpg

Sidenote since Marvel has the strength of Hercules here is Snowbird in her baseform dealing with Marvel Hercules.
1. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Hercules117016.jpg
2. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Hercules117017.jpg

Yes billy has other abilities just showing her contending with herc's strength

-K-M-
Originally posted by zopzop
Quick question, was it ever explained WHY the Great Beasts are so powerful? Are they considered Elder Gods? Minor Abstracts? What?

Considered "Elder Gods of the Night" and I suppose they would be considered very very very minor abstracts. Very loosely. Their older then the Earth itself.

The Great Beasts were embodiments of death on Earth when it was first commencing to come alive. It was stated "the Great Beasts rule over death and decay, and can implore death and decay as a weapon against mankind".

1. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/AlphaFlight38-15.jpg
2. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight44-19.jpg

The Great Beasts come from a time long before good or evil, for that matter, right or wrong. They're hellstorms, nothing more or less--living breathing tornadoes of mystical energy--consuming everything in their path without restraint or remorse.

1. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/x-man_040-11.jpg
2. http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/x-man_040-12.jpg
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In Exiles, Great Beasts are deathless as a fable and are mythology incarnate. They are responsible for making the first men fear the darkness and the cold

1. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/Exilesv10572005puar-DCP18.jpg

Tanaraq mentions his strength is born of sorcery ancient as winter and black as night

1. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/Exiles0582005puar-DCP04.jpg
------
Sorry if scans don't work. Photobucket when full retard

riv6672
^^^yeah Photobucket's a turd, but your descriptions are spot on.
The GBs are an an underrated creation at Marvel.

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