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Luke during the JA Trilogy against a living Kun from the Sith War. Who wins?

Kun, as per Luke.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Kun, as per Luke.

I'm looking forward to see what you have up your sleeve son

Yeah, it's undoubtedly Kun now.

Originally posted by HeartThrob
I'm looking forward to see what you have up your sleeve son

Kun's vastly beyond Vader's league.

typo, rip. fixed.

It's weird because JA Luke seems way weaker than DE Luke when we know he's not.

Leia in JA thinks summoning a weather storm.is impossible for a Jedi master lol.

The simplest in-universe rationalization is that Luke is holding back after getting scared from his brush with the dark side in DE. This is actually something one would expect - Luke holds back constantly even when he's far removed from his stint with Palpatine, so immediately afterwards you'd be surprised if he didn't exhibit an even clearer backlash.

Notes:

1. The statement about Luke growing more powerful doesn't contradict the above.

2. The statement about Luke noting that he should not abuse his powers after JA doesn't preclude him from holding back before.

3. Luke doesn't really lose to Kun in a fair fight anyway but that's something I'll save for the Revan/Vader debate.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The simplest in-universe rationalization is that Luke is holding back after getting scared from his brush with the dark side in DE. This is actually something one would expect - Luke holds back constantly even when he's far removed from his stint with Palpatine, so immediately afterwards you'd be surprised if he didn't exhibit an even clearer backlash.

Notes:

1. The statement about Luke growing more powerful doesn't contradict the above.

2. The statement about Luke noting that he should not abuse his powers after JA doesn't preclude him from holding back before.

3. Luke doesn't really lose to Kun in a fair fight anyway but that's something I'll save for the Revan/Vader debate.

Focus on the super fight, not these small skirmishes.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Kun, as per Luke.

My friends, I am eagerly waiting to see what wank you have digged up.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Kun, as per Luke.

Luke, as per objective sources.

no objective source says luke > kun kek

Luke, lol.

Literally every source on the matter says Kun.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
no objective source says luke > kun kek

I believe two do(at least spirit Kun anyways) and also there's their clash as spirits, on a DS nexus, where Luke overpowered Exar pretty quickly. I'd take that as an indicator that Luke is superior.

The sources state Luke > Kun before Kun begins his stuff with Gantoris.

A weakened Kun crippled Luke and his students. I don't know how would Luke fare against flesh and blood Exar Kun. Once, he thought that if Tavion resurrects Ragnos would be terribly bad. On top of that, even Luke holds the ancient Sith in high regards. He knows these guys are dangerous.

Can we get some quotes for these objective sources saying Luke is better, or Kun is better?

Not until Ant stomps Ell, I'm afraid. Though Kun > JA Luke will hardly be the biggest revelation.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Not until Ant stomps Ell, I'm afraid. Though Kun > JA Luke will hardly be the biggest revelation.

You're right, the biggest revelation is SF Malak >>> Kun

Which is debunked by Kun >> Vitiate >> Revan >> SF!Malak.

Which is debunked by the fact that Kun being the "darkest power in the galaxy" is actually a much older quote than Malak on the SF being > him. It's been retconned.

Originally posted by MythLord
Which is debunked by the fact that Kun being the "darkest power in the galaxy" is actually a much older quote than Malak on the SF being > him. It's been retconned.

The complete SW encyclopaedia states that Kun was :



This quote came out in 2008

The Malak Quote came out in 2003

Unless Post Nathema Vititate isn't a sith, in which case sidious doesn't get guaranteed scaling over him.

Once yes, but then Malak surpassed him.

If the text is to be believed, yes. (in the star forge)

But Kun being the darkest power in the Galaxy, at his time, (entities aside) isn't retconned. That was the point.

Myth clearly on something LSDMB gave him. Kun being more powerful than Vitiate, prior to considerable and faster power growth via the dark holocron, completely shits all over the idea that Malak was ever even close to surpassing Kun. A weakened version of an inferior incarnation of the Revan who Vitiate-who at the most generous/conservative estimate may have caught up with Exar Kun in his prime-, one-shotted in an actual raw power exchange, could still defeat him after being given all of the advantages he could've wanted.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Which is debunked by Kun >> Vitiate >> Revan >> SF!Malak.

Damn so I guess Ant isn't going to stomp me.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Myth clearly on something LSDMB gave him. Kun being more powerful than Vitiate, prior to considerable and faster power growth via the dark holocron, completely shits all over the idea that Malak was ever even close to surpassing Kun. A weakened version of an inferior incarnation of the Revan who Vitiate-who at the most generous/conservative estimate may have caught up with Exar Kun in his prime-, one-shotted in an actual raw power exchange, could still defeat him after being given all of the advantages he could've wanted.

This is actually pretty convincing.

When you consider the general rule of growth/plateaus, it doesn't make much sense that having spent a thousand years undercover after the nathema ritual, Vitatiate goes from being weaker than Kun to much much stronger in the last hundred. And all this has to magically align itself because of a single quote claiming SF is far more powerful than either Kun or Nadd.

More to the fact, I bet you if someone asked Leeland Chee on twitter if that blog quote could be considered subjective, he would say that it was.

I don't think Kun's quote applies to Vitiate. Vitiate didn't exist when that line was written.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Myth clearly on something LSDMB gave him.

I don't need drugs to have a good time; I'm insane enough as it is.

Originally posted by MythLord
Which is debunked by the fact that Kun being the "darkest power in the galaxy" is actually a much older quote than Malak on the SF being > him. It's been retconned.

And yet, the Sheev brigade never uses this kind of thinking when it comes about their precious OT characters.

Vitiate was a concealed threat at the time of Exar Kun.

Star Wars: The Complete Encyclopedia = perspective of historians.

It has nothing to do with him being a concealed threat, and everything to do with him being created after the quote was published. Just like the quote that claims Darth Sidious was a more powerful dark side expression than Abeloth.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate was a concealed threat at the time of Exar Kun.

Star Wars: The Complete Encyclopedia = perspective of historians.

The Complete Encyclopaedia was indeed an in-universe source.

But it's and in-universe omniscient publication. That's arguably more credible than just out of universe sources.

Characters cannot be omniscient.

Does anyone have an argument for Kun that isn't based on trainee Corran Horn and trainee/manipulated Kyp Durron's opinions?

You're not getting the argument before you reply in the Super Fight, so stop showboating.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Does anyone have an argument for Kun that isn't based on trainee Corran Horn and trainee/manipulated Kyp Durron's opinions?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eix7fLsS058

https://s18.postimg.org/gygub9xeh/tenor.gif

Watching AP cheer on Ant to solidify Malak >>> Kun is like watching Jar Jar Binks grant Palpatine emergency powers. Well, except that while Palpatine had to hide his plans from Jar Jar, AP just walks right into it.

Quoting Mythlord

Why is that relevant?

It's worth nothing that the Star Forge needs dark side energy to work. That means, Malak fed the Star Forge with his own power.

Originally posted by MythLord
Why is that relevant?

AP would much rather, Ant use Exar badly to win the debate against Ellimist, even though he may believe Exar kun to be stronger otherwise.

Much like you voting E.g Mace even though you find, say Yoda to be stronger to win the Vote.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
It's worth nothing that the Star Forge needs dark side energy to work. That means, Malak fed the Star Forge with his own power.

Its rakatan technology, so He will be using captured Jedi to help power it, also he was running it at 300% FYI

The Star Forge only works with dark side energy. He cannot power it with Jedi.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
AP would much rather, Ant use Exar badly to win the debate against Ellimist, even though he may believe Exar kun to be stronger otherwise.

Much like you voting E.g Mace even though you find, say Yoda to be stronger to win the Vote.

Yeah, it's not comparable. In my situation I'm forced to pick between one of two characters, meanwhile AP is just being dishonest.

Ell grasping so desperately at straws rn.

I'll deal with Ant in my own time, boy.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
The Star Forge only works with dark side energy. He cannot power it with Jedi.
Rakatan technology is run using force essence it doesn't matter what alignment it is.

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