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Setting: Prague, Charles's Bridge

Starting distance: 50 feet


Who wins?

Valk shitstomps

Hmm... either way.

Valk and it's not close.

Can Valkorion match DE Luke's combat speed?

No

Given that Valk's capable of stomping people who stomp people who can percieve FTL as if time had frozen. Yeah, he can do easily.

Why do people still think Aryn is FTL?

Her perceptions are, not her speed. But she percieved psuedomotion, which is the FTL jump of a ship into hyperspace, as if the ship stretched infinitely. It's something that's been analysed before.

Hmm, fine, I'll bite. I've seen you make this claim, but never saw you actually provide a quote(or you did and I forgot it, perhaps). Can I see it?

Originally posted by MythLord
Hmm, fine, I'll bite.

facepalm

Don't. This is precisely why AP is still around. People are playing right into its hands by giving it attention. Stop.

Originally posted by Azronger
facepalm

Don't. This is precisely why AP is still around. People are playing right into its hands by giving it attention. Stop.

Your ass still that raw?

Yeah, the quote is hyperbolic and describes her as moving in miliseconds, and percieving time in nanoseconds and that she couldn't do it for long and it was taxing her. If we're gonna take this as legitimate, there's plenty of similarly flashy and descriptive feats from people DE Luke would speedblitz.

Still, thanks for the quote.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, the quote is hyperbolic and describes her as moving in miliseconds, and percieving time in nanoseconds

?

It describes what she perceives while doing it, even mentioning that she really is moving so fast she's in multiple places at once. It says how slowed down her perceptions are and then backs it up with what she's capable of perceiving in that state. That's not hyperbole.

Her ability to percieve the stars as they move through hyperspace at FTL is what's important here. And that part doesn't read like hyperbole at all. She does this before getting more powerful and then stomped by Malgus in the end.

If you can dismiss the full description of Aryn watching the event horizon of FTL hyperspace jump - including her full interpretation of the events unfolding - then there's literally nothing that can't be dismissed as "hyperbolic".

What says you can dismiss that? There's no logic being given here. She herself only states that the ship stretching incomprehensibly is obviously just a trick on the eye because that's impossible. Nothing else is.

(He's agreeing with you)

Hu? That's what I stated above.

Sorry, read it wrong. My bad.

So, the feat stands.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Her ability to percieve the stars as they move through hyperspace at FTL is what's important here. And that part doesn't read like hyperbole at all. She does this before getting more powerful and then stomped by Malgus in the end.

Alright, even assuming it's not hyperbolic or an outliar, I must also ask where is she percieving time or her travel in slow motion? She percieves the inside of the ship in slow motion, she percieve Zeerid in slow motion. And that's a good feat, but her percieving the actual travel and hyperspace is the same as we see it. Note:

"As one, the Imperial ships began to stretch in her perception. For a nanosecond, all of them seemed to stretch to infinity, their rear engines a hundred thousand kilometers off Fatman's bow, their forms reaching across and through an incomprehensible distance. She knew it was illusion, that it was a trick of her perception caused by the moment they entered hyperspace seeming to freeze before her eyes.

She engaged Fatman's hyperdrive and the black night of space turned blue.

"Now, Aryn! Now!" Zeerid said, but he was far too late.

She remained immersed in the Force as Fatman surged through hyperspace. The ordinary maddening churn slowed to a crawl of spirals and whorls, the script of the universe writ large in characters of blue, turquoise, midnight, and lavender. She fancied there might be meaning in the lines, an important revelation that hung before her, just beyond the reach of her consciousness."
-- Decieved

This is exactly what it looks like, and exactly what everyone else sees in Star Wars when they jump to lightspeed:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/a/ae/Hyperspace_falcon.png/revision/latest?cb=20130312014242

The only moment that actually seemed frozen to her was when they just entered hyperspace and then everything seemed to be by the books as we know it. Next, in the actual ship she could still hear and see Zeerid move(even if it is slowly) and pushes several buttons when they start leaving hyperspace:

"Zeerid spoke to her from time to time but his words bounced off her perception, ricocheted without her comprehension. In time, something he said penetrated her understanding.

'Coming out, Aryn. Be ready.'

She watched Zeerid, moving in slow motion, pull back on the lever that engaged the hyperdrive.

She readied herself, and the moment the blue of hyperspace started to fade into black, she pushed a series of buttons and switches that turned Fatman cold except for life support, thrusters, and the small amount of power they'd need to create an electromagnetic bond.

The blue disappeared in favor of the midnight of space, and she returned to normal perception."
-- Decieved

To note, for even relativistic speed the entire world should freeze around you, nevermind lightspeed. So unless Zeerid is moving many, many times the speed of sound or comparably to the speed of lightning(I doubt it) there's no way she's percieving time in legitimate nanoseconds.

Now, Luke has done something much better around 3 ABY when he saw Guri -- a superhuman, bounty hunter killing robot who makes blasters seem slow -- move in slow motion and easily dodged her attack:

"He had to trust the Force completely -- Guri slowed, as if she were suddenly mired in thickened time. He saw her hand descending, saw it moving to smash him, but it was so incredibly slow, why, he could easily just roll aside and stand, before she ever reached him..."
-- Shadows of the Empire

It's better and more combat applicable for Luke to percieve and dodge Guri, who to him as moving in slow motion, than Aryn percieving Zeerid that way. Additionally, there's Luke seeing TIE fighters, who move at lightspeed(or comparable to lightspeed) speeds in slow motion, there's Luke keeping up with Vader who 20 years before that was blitzing the likes of Ferus Olin and Aura Sing who also have milisecond and nanosecond timing feats, etc.

What I'm saying is, it's hard to present this as a consistent feat and, as impressive as it may be, it doesn't indicate Aryn is FTL any more than Luke's feats against Guri, the TIE fighters or Vader do as early as ESB.

Raped^ LMAO

Originally posted by MythLord
The only moment that actually seemed frozen to her was when they just entered hyperspace and then everything seemed to be by the books as we know it.

Yeah and in this particular instance her perception is certainly FLT otherwise she wouldn't be able to watch the "redshift" effects of the ships going past the event horizon .

Why wouldn't she? And even being generous and assuming she is FTL in that one moment, it's still one moment that taxed her. It's not an indication of her combative speed in the slightest, and it's not an indication of Malgus' or Valkorion's combat speed by proxy.

The TOR brigade is clinging to this one moment that's quite frankly barely useable in anything that has any semblance of combat, and is ignoring the fact that the supposed FTL Malgus and all the people who get scaled up from him couldn't speedblitz non-Force sensitives.

Jax Pavan, Some Sith from the Lost Tribe, Magnaguards, and even the training droids younglings train with, have all been said to be nanosecond and light speeds, Dooku also is said to move faster than light and Anakin early in the clone wars has a millisecond reaction feat and does a similar hyperspace feat in the cgi show.

Originally posted by MythLord
Why wouldn't she? And even being generous and assuming she is FTL in that one moment, it's still one moment that taxed her. It's not an indication of her combative speed in the slightest, and it's not an indication of Malgus' or Valkorion's combat speed by proxy.

That moment was all that was required from her to proper conduct a hyperspace jump to pig tail the imperial super freighters.

You are putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that Volkorion or Malgus are FTL, only that Aryn genuinely achieved FTL perceptions in order to conduct the hyperspace jump. My previous post only clarified that Aryn's perception going FTL isn't a "hyperbole".



?

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
That moment was all that was required from her to proper conduct a hyperspace jump to pig tail the imperial super freighters.

You are putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that Volkorion or Malgus are FTL, only that Aryn genuinely achieved FTL perceptions in order to conduct the hyperspace jump. My previous post only clarified that Aryn's perception going FTL isn't a "hyperbole"

And that moment was also measured in miliseconds, which is still slower than light. I never put words in your mouth; this entire debate has been with AP, if you haven't noticed, who is legitimately claiming Malgus and Valk are FTL because of this feat.

Originally posted by MythLord
And that moment was also measured in miliseconds, which is still slower than light.

The moment measured in miliseconds were prior to the ships setting for formation to conduct a hyperspace jump.



You adressed my post directly, so I assumed you considered my position as such but fair enough.

If we want to use crappy, slanted interpretations of texts, then DNT Leia is massively FTL in her perceptions as well, lol.

Luke wins dis.

Originally posted by SunRazer
If we want to use crappy, slanted interpretations of texts, then DNT Leia is massively FTL in her perceptions as well, lol.

There's nothing crappy or slanted "interpretation" here, Nova. There's a clear progress of events and narrative backup, including the description of detailed and particular effects that uniquequivocally demonstrates Aryn achieves FTL perception at the moment immediately prior the imperial freighters engage their hyperdrives.

There seems to be a huge chasm of difference in the levels of what Force users can achieve in the safety of a cockpit compared to being on the battlefield.

I'm not arguing she didn't at one point access nanosecondary scale(which is still lightspeed, not actually FTL), my gripe with AP is she's using this one moment that taxed Aryn as proof her combat speed is FTL, despite immediately afterwards she has slower than lightspeed perception, inferior to even ESB Luke.

You and I have no disagreements here, it seems.

Originally posted by MythLord
I'm not arguing she didn't at one point access nanosecondary scale(which is still lightspeed, not actually FTL), my gripe with AP is she's using this one moment that taxed Aryn as proof her combat speed is FTL, despite immediately afterwards she has slower than lightspeed perception, inferior to even ESB Luke.

You and I have no disagreements here, it seems.
We can scale Valkorion from Darth Marr who could move so fast that another Sith Lord could not keep up with his movement and perceived it as an act of teleportation.

There isn't a Force-user in history who has managed to blitz Valkorion in a fight. And he has co-existed with numerous Force-users who have blitzed others in a fight.

VeRy solid argumentation LeG.

Originally posted by MythLord
You and I have no disagreements here, it seems.

Valkorion is a Mary Sue.