Superman vs Clayface

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Jmanghan
Who wins this match?

leonidas
huh? supes could super speed around him and scatter him across the globe or flash freeze him. clyaface doesn't have a chance here. even wide angle hv would destroy him.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by leonidas
huh? supes could super speed around him and scatter him across the globe or flash freeze him. clyaface doesn't have a chance here. even wide angle hv would destroy him. In YJ Clayface destroyed the entire YJ team without a scratch, which included Superboy and Aqualad.

spetznaz

Delta1938
Originally posted by Jmanghan
In YJ Clayface destroyed the entire YJ team without a scratch, which included Superboy and Aqualad.

Are you going by the cartoon? If so, I can't really comment, only saw most of one season and don't recall Superman doing much. If we're going by the comics, not seeing what Clayface can do beyond being an annoyance.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by Jmanghan
In YJ Clayface destroyed the entire YJ team without a scratch, which included Superboy and Aqualad. That'S Prepman's/Zack M's Clayface and the only reason he didn't stormed this thread and used this version is because Superman is the opponent.

riv6672
Confusing ass thread. eer

Bentley
Wolverine already chopped off the hand of a heavily amped Thor. Don't diss the Wolverine.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Jmanghan
In YJ Clayface destroyed the entire YJ team without a scratch, which included Superboy and Aqualad.

Originally posted by riv6672
Confusing ...



This is actually fairly straightforward.

The powers and ability and interpretation of any given character CHANGES when translated from medium to medium, age to age, and writer/artist team to writer/artist team.

The power level for Superboy is different in the televised version of Young Justice (YJ), for instance, than it is in present-day comics. That's largely an illustration of a medium (animated TV) to medium (present-day comicbook) change.

Age to age? Think of whether or not you'd expect Silver Age (ie from the years of roughly 1960 to 1966) Superman to struggle with what you're apparently thinking Superman now here in 2018 (Modern Age/post-Modern Age) Superman will find challenging.

Writer/artist team? Read the Superman versus Venom action penned by Ron Marz in the infamous mid-1990s crossover and tell me why people think Superman would even be a fully adequate match for Spider-Man, let alone the Zods, Thors, Firelords, and Hulks of the world.

For the record, you'd probably have a good matchup if you took Superman from the CW Live Action Supergirl TV show and matched HIM against animated Young Justice Clayface. Present day mainstream comicbook Superman versus present day comicbook Clayface, though?
Not so much.


However, you could also go the route of a scenario match-up.
In point of fact, in at least 2 story lines I know of, even our current comicbook Superman would have found comicbook Clayface a handful. One of the first coming to mind concern's Superman's little cousin, who, during this time, even as on the CW show now, was physically stronger than Clark:

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37497898_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37497899_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37497900_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37497901_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37497902_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37497903_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37497904_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37497905_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37497906_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37497907_image.jpg

Source: Superman/Batman #19
Writer: Jeph Loeb
Circa: 2006

DarkSaint85
Bluewaterrider, heed the summons!

bluewaterrider
Sorry, D.S.

That topic of "Supergirl versus Marvel bricks" is about as interesting as a wheelbarrow full OF bricks right now. Had me musing for a moment what Jane versus Kara would like from a visual standpoint, though.

DarkSaint85
Boo.

You think Jane Thor is on her level, or is it simply because she too is female?

bluewaterrider
Back to what I was saying, the 2nd point in time where Clayface would have presented Superman with an interesting challenge was during the Wonder Woman Volume 2, #160-161 arc.





https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37497961_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37497962_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37497963_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37497964_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37497965_image.jpg

Source: Wonder Woman v2 #160
Circa: 2000

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by DarkSaint85


You think Jane Thor is on her level, or is it simply because she too is female?


Again, would just be an interesting visual.

Jane as Thor is essentially Supergirl with a hammer.

xJLxKing
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Again, would just be an interesting visual.

Jane as Thor is essentially Supergirl with a hammer.
Jane>Thor

SquallX

leonidas
even there a super speed spin should end it i would think. she also doesn't have freeze breath, and can't blast hv from orbit. i'd need to see a lot of proof clayface could handle instant freezing or boiling, or can retain his form in the face of a super speed spin.

even if clayface went down his throat i'd think supes' lungs strong enough to just expel him...

One Big Mob
Originally posted by leonidas
even there a super speed spin should end it i would think. she also doesn't have freeze breath, and can't blast hv from orbit. i'd need to see a lot of proof clayface could handle instant freezing or boiling, or can retain his form in the face of a super speed spin.

even if clayface went down his throat i'd think supes' lungs strong enough to just expel him... What if deepthroating Superman is right where Superman wants him though?
Who wins then?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Again, would just be an interesting visual.

Jane as Thor is essentially Supergirl with a hammer.

Ok so just because she's female then. Fair enough.

Philosophía
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/milisecondandexplosion2.jpg?hotlinkfix=1518718875164

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/milisecondandexplosion3.jpg?hotlinkfix=1518718875680

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/milisecondandexplosion4.jpg?hotlinkfix=1518718876210

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by SquallX
And you don't think that's just plot induced stupidity (pis)?

I actually hadn't finished posting.
I mistakenly thought no one save for Dark Saint would be posting in reply to this thread today, and so didn't bother to hurry my response. In answer to your questions, direct AND implied however:


https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37507784_image.jpg


Although I found Clayface having strength enough to have launched this truck in the air impressive, and am now
a) wondering if this is Clayface's standard strength level
and
b) wondering how Batman survived him in the past if it was

I don't think that by itself would be enough to fully occupy forum Superman.
Spider-Man, Thing, and even the Rhino, yes, but not necessarily forum Superman.

And I can certainly see where you might consider the apparent bare physical overpowering of Wonder Woman as pis. However, what I'm saying is not that Clayface at THAT level is the forum Superman threat, but Clayface after THIS point:



https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37507785_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37507786_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37507787_image.jpg

Delta1938
(Blue's scans cut to avoid image limit)

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
This is actually fairly straightforward.

The powers and ability and interpretation of any given character CHANGES when translated from medium to medium, age to age, and writer/artist team to writer/artist team.

The power level for Superboy is different in the televised version of Young Justice (YJ), for instance, than it is in present-day comics. That's largely an illustration of a medium (animated TV) to medium (present-day comicbook) change.

Age to age? Think of whether or not you'd expect Silver Age (ie from the years of roughly 1960 to 1966) Superman to struggle with what you're apparently thinking Superman now here in 2018 (Modern Age/post-Modern Age) Superman will find challenging.

Writer/artist team? Read the Superman versus Venom action penned by Ron Marz in the infamous mid-1990s crossover and tell me why people think Superman would even be a fully adequate match for Spider-Man, let alone the Zods, Thors, Firelords, and Hulks of the world.

For the record, you'd probably have a good matchup if you took Superman from the CW Live Action Supergirl TV show and matched HIM against animated Young Justice Clayface. Present day mainstream comicbook Superman versus present day comicbook Clayface, though?
Not so much.


However, you could also go the route of a scenario match-up.
In point of fact, in at least 2 story lines I know of, even our current comicbook Superman would have found comicbook Clayface a handful. One of the first coming to mind concern's Superman's little cousin, who, during this time, even as on the CW show now, was physically stronger than Clark:


Source: Superman/Batman #19
Writer: Jeph Loeb
Circa: 2006

Despite the mental gymnastics and ignoring you do to justify otherwise, Supergirl was not stronger than Superman. On top of that, Clayface seems to be saying he has real Kryptonite in one of the last few scans you posted. So using a weaker Kryptonian fighting Clayface arguably with Kryptonite proves what?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Back to what I was saying, the 2nd point in time where Clayface would have presented Superman with an interesting challenge was during the Wonder Woman Volume 2, #160-161 arc.







Source: Wonder Woman v2 #160
Circa: 2000

Even ignoring that Superman is stronger than Wonder Woman (even you don't argue in regards to the time frame Clayface facing Diana happened), and has options for dealing with Clayface that Wonder Woman lacks, this example is highly questionable for Clayface against anybody but Wonder Woman. He somehow removed clay from her, gaining powers, in the scene you posted, but left that part out.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-grGL8TSvVEE/VnfnOvmz6kI/AAAAAAAAEys/oab1mE-XgPA/s1600-Ic42/RCO017.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-g_ZSuXGg514/VnfnOgbWPFI/AAAAAAAAEyY/92-zG18Wa8E/s1600-Ic42/RCO018.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8vMU1l2AyAQ/VnfnPY-1X6I/AAAAAAAAEyY/a8LQJSvXEdQ/s1600-Ic42/RCO019.jpg


Even when she was able to somewhat reintegrate herself he had part of her power.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IbGgIstE2AU/VnfnPVRifDI/AAAAAAAAEyY/WpT-PjajwVg/s1600-Ic42/RCO020.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-s_n2chYHAvU/VnfnPa8Ys6I/AAAAAAAAEyY/iLeuD__9La4/s1600-Ic42/RCO021.jpg

Just to confirm.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sQMqvjfbSjE/VnfnYiqRvmI/AAAAAAAAE10/2eH2lBLFCwE/s1600-Ic42/RCO006.jpg



So neither example really backs Clayface being a threat under normal circumstances.

Delta1938
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I actually hadn't finished posting.
I mistakenly thought no one save for Dark Saint would be posting in reply to this thread today, and so didn't bother to hurry my response. In answer to your questions, direct AND implied however:


https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37507784_image.jpg


Although I found Clayface having strength enough to have launched this truck in the air impressive, and am now
a) wondering if this is Clayface's standard strength level
and
b) wondering how Batman survived him in the past if it was

I don't think that by itself would be enough to fully occupy forum Superman.
Spider-Man, Thing, and even the Rhino, yes, but not necessarily forum Superman.

And I can certainly see where you might consider the apparent bare physical overpowering of Wonder Woman as pis. However, what I'm saying is not that Clayface at THAT level is the forum Superman threat, but Clayface after THIS point:



https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37507785_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37507786_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37507787_image.jpg

So you posted again while I was typing my post.

Did you actually read the storyline? Clayface didn't have all of Diana's power(and even a full powered Wonder Woman is<<Superman) and Wonder Woman got her power back by the end. Clayface had her power for all of an issue and a half or so.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Delta1938

neither example really backs Clayface being a threat under normal circumstances


Hey, Delta.

I see you got caught by the same time-posting mechanics as me.
Your post came exactly 1 minute after I'd begun explaining how the magic boost is what makes Clayface in this arc forum-Superman worthy, not Clayface under normal conditions.

Delta1938
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Hey, Delta.

I see you got caught by the same time-posting mechanics as me.
Your post came exactly 1 minute after I'd begun explaining how the magic boost is what makes Clayface in this arc forum-Superman worthy, not Clayface under normal conditions.

You posted him containing her first, leaving out where he took her powers. That coupled with the Supergirl fight certainly looks like you were arguing Clayface is just that powerful. Why even post the scans of Clayface containing her then later the power stealing?

But even if the OP intended a very specific time for Clayface in a two issue storyline, he didn't have Wonder Woman's full power, who's inferior to Superman anyways without counting things like heat vision or freeze breath. And I predict how you'll reply to freeze breath.

DarkSaint85
OP is referring to YJ version of Clayface.

Who doesn't have magic/Kryptonite etc.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Delta1938
So you posted again while I was typing my post.

Did you actually read the storyline? Clayface didn't have all of Diana's power(and even a full powered Wonder Woman is<<Superman) and Wonder Woman got her power back by the end. Clayface had her power for all of an issue and a half or so.


1. We might have to agree on posting timetables if this keeps up.
We keep tripping over each other.

2. I actually read the storyline. I'm not sure you did, because Diana comments that Clayface seems more powerful than JUST taking a portion of Diana's power should have made him.
Note Clayface's WW160 flashtrans as Zeus.
The discussion in WW161 expands on what that might mean.

3. Yes, Clayface had his extra power for an issue and a half or so.
That's why I suggested to the original poster of this thread that he make a SCENARIO matchup, and not a standard one.

Also, to go with #3, you are mistaken about Supergirl. Superman in the same situation would not have even GOTTEN to Clayface. Notice as I repost the rest of the answer to this point that Supergirl successfully resisted Poison Ivy's SYNTHETIC kryptonite attack ALONG with whatever radiation Clayface was kicking out. Superman was brought under Ivy's control with Synth-K all by itself.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

For the record, you'd probably have a good matchup if you took Superman from the CW Live Action Supergirl TV show and matched HIM against animated Young Justice Clayface. Present day mainstream comicbook Superman versus present day comicbook Clayface, though?
Not so much.


However, you could also go the route of a scenario match-up.
In point of fact, in at least 2 story lines I know of, even our current comicbook Superman would have found comicbook Clayface a handful. One of the first coming to mind concern's Superman's little cousin, who, during this time, even as on the CW show now, was physically stronger than Clark:




https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37497902_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37497903_image.jpg


Source: Superman/Batman #19
Writer: Jeph Loeb
Circa: 2006

SquallX

bluewaterrider
The problem is not Clayface using Thing-level attacks against Wondy.
The problem is that his clay form is able to interact with her clay form and adopt the magic properties of her clay. To essentially replace Wonder Woman as a vessel for her Pantheon's power and then some.

https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37508282_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37508283_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37508284_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37508285_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37508286_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37508287_image.jpg

abhilegend
You can post a fight between Superman and a crippled old guy on deathbed and Blue would still argue against Superman.

It's like carver, only more retarded if it is possible.

bluewaterrider
Might as well show how the rest of this goes ...

Note that Clayface is able to make a convincing impersonation of Superman, even as he did so with Diana in the previous selection:



https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37508289_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37508290_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37508291_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37508292_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37508293_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37508294_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37508295_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37508296_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37508297_image.jpg

bluewaterrider
Wrap up of Pantheon-powered Clayface.
This would make a decent feat for the Donna Troy Respect Thread, assuming we have one:


https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37508299_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37508300_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37508301_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37508302_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37508303_image.jpg

Source: Wonder Woman v2 #161

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Delta1938
You posted him containing her first, leaving out where he took her powers. That coupled with the Supergirl fight certainly looks like you were arguing Clayface is just that powerful. Why even post the scans of Clayface containing her then later the power stealing?


Because that's the order things happened in the story?

Are you saying you would have posted them in reverse?

SquallX

bluewaterrider

bluewaterrider
The author of that Clayface story actually may have known a great deal about Wonder Woman.

Clay reversion was a strategy I first remember tried against Wonder Woman by Circe, in a 4 issue story called "War of the gods".

A little later on, John Byrne would explore a similar theme, arguably expanding the scope of the phenomenon:


https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37526109_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37526110_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37526111_image.jpg

Source: Wonder Woman v2 #122

Notice that Diana's power waxes and wanes depending on proximity to her Pantheon here. In other stories the amount of prayer they and she receive is the lynchpin. Here, not only Diana but ALL the Amazons find themselves devolving, and that WITHOUT someone like Basil trying to help that process along.



The mechanics we see in this Clayface arc have precedent.

bluewaterrider
Lamentable how slow these boards are from their heyday a decade or so ago.

Even the people posting these threads don't bother to check on them.

Small wonder posters like DarkSaint have taken to personally requesting member participation.

Incidentally, I think D.S. Is right -- the OP likely is curious to know how we think Young Justice show's Clayface would fare against YJ Superman, in the arguably mistaken belief that the animated show characters are of similar prowess to their paper book counterparts.

I did notice one thing of interest, though ...

From Wikipedia:

In earlier appearances, Basil Karlo had no powers, but wore a clay mask based on one of his movie roles. In recent comics, Basil Karlo's body is made out of mud upon taking the DNA of Clayface III and IV, enabling him to gain the combined powers of both. In The New 52, these are improved to a level in which he can mimic the DNA of others.



" ... can mimic the DNA of others?"

THAT has some interesting implications ...

One Big Mob
I don't think I've ever read a full bluewater post to completion. Not even a joke either. Sometimes I catch tidbits like Luciferian and serpents, but I don't think it's ever happened.
Hell of a poster though.

bluewaterrider
Here's one.

And thank you.

Jmanghan
Clayface is incredibly strong and durable in his own right, as seen above, I just think Batman has the right tools to deal with him, and that brute strength is the wrong way to go about killing him.

SquallX

Jmanghan
Brute strength isn't the way to deal with Clayface, he's a shape-shifting mold of clay.

Ever tried punching Clay? It does nothing, Superman punching Clayface wouldn't do shit.

abhilegend
ermm

Are you simply trolling now? In what world is clayface a threat to Superman?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Brute strength isn't the way to deal with Clayface, he's a shape-shifting mold of clay.

Ever tried punching Clay? It does nothing, Superman punching Clayface wouldn't do shit.

Lol

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Bentley
Wolverine already chopped off the hand of a heavily amped Thor. Don't diss the Wolverine.

plus u know he started oiut fighting hulks and wendigos. people are idiots

Jmanghan
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol Clayface is a malleable man, you can punch him all day, all it's gonna do is leave indents that he'll recover from.

Zack M
The only elemental Superman lost to, was Swamp Thing. And he owned him.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Bentley
Wolverine already chopped off the hand of a heavily amped Thor. Don't diss the Wolverine.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
plus u know he started oiut fighting hulks and wendigos. people are idiots

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/icons/v2/icon12.gif

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Clayface is a malleable man, you can punch him all day, all it's gonna do is leave indents that he'll recover from.

I don't think you realize the level of punching strength an all out Superman can bring lol.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Clayface is a malleable man, you can punch him all day, all it's gonna do is leave indents that he'll recover from.

How is your Black Knight thread? haermm2

SquallX
Originally posted by Jmanghan
Clayface is a malleable man, you can punch him all day, all it's gonna do is leave indents that he'll recover from.

You know a mere flick from Kal can change the environment right?

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by SquallX
You know a mere flick from Kal can change the environment right?


That's true of everybody, though:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect


It might help to get an idea of J's starting point, which he as good as told us was/is an animated DC show that has been translated into DC comics:

https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/37696076_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/37696078_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/37696079_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/37696080_image.jpg

Source: Young Justice #13
Circa: 2012

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Jmanghan
In YJ Clayface destroyed the entire YJ team without a scratch, which included Superboy and Aqualad.

I don't follow the show, and finding a YouTube clip of whatever fight you're talking about might get taken down anyway, making it a waste of my time, but, besides doing what he did to the team collective at once, as shown above in my previous post, Clayface ALSO later took out the members of Young Justice individually. So in the comics, at least, Clayface has singlehandedly TWICE taken down Young Justice, a team that presumably frequently takes on Superman-level opposition:

https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37697949_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37697950_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37697951_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37697952_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37697953_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37697954_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37697955_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37697956_image.jpg

Source: Young Justice #13
Circa: April 2012

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
OP is referring to YJ version of Clayface.

Who doesn't have magic/Kryptonite etc.

The YJ (Young Justice) version of Clayface, as shown above, apparently doesn't need magic or Kryptonite to defeat the Young Justice version of Superboy.

From the little I could glean from the Young Justice comic, that might make a very good case that Clayface would take the Young Justice of Superman as well, if, ignoring the fact Clayface took Aqualad, Miss Martian, Kid Flash AND Superboy at the same time doesn't already do it. Certainly, presented with that and something like the following, it's easy to draw that conclusion:



https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37698210_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37698211_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37698212_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37698213_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37698214_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37698215_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37698216_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37698217_image.jpg

Source: Young Justice #6
Circa: September 2011

One Big Mob
Jumanji is making a lot of great points here. Punching clay? What is Superman, a badger?

Jerkstain probably has never seen clay in his life and assumes it's just loose dirt.

SquallX

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by leonidas
even there a super speed spin should end it i would think. she also doesn't have freeze breath, and can't blast hv from orbit. i'd need to see a lot of proof clayface could handle instant freezing or boiling, or can retain his form in the face of a super speed spin.

even if clayface went down his throat i'd think supes' lungs strong enough to just expel him...

Originally posted by One Big Mob
What if deepthroating Superman is right where Superman wants him though?
Who wins then?


It's worth pointing out that, in many iterations, mainstream OR otherwise, Kryptonians DO need to breathe. Even so-called "pre-boot" Kryptonians find themselves gasping for air if deprived of it for too long, as demonstrated by Superman's cousin, Supergirl, here:

https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37698219_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37698220_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37698221_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37698222_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37698223_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37698224_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37698225_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37698226_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37698227_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37698228_image.jpg

Source: Supergirl #23
Circa: January 2008

bluewaterrider

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Squallx


Batman took down CF. Is Batman>every leaguers now?



If you're the longtime DC reader you present yourself as, you should know better than this. Batman is one of the greatest overachievers in comicdom, and frequently outperforms his supposed peers.

To give only one example, examine the following:


https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37701828_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37701829_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37701831_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37701833_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37701834_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37701835_image.jpg

Source: JLA #4
Circa: April 1997

The above is useful for illustrating several things.

In no particular order:

-- Superman is vulnerable to suffocation attacks from a powerful enough opponent

-- Retcons even of characters' basic physical properties occur with some frequency. Note that here White Martians need air to breathe and Wonder Woman defeats her opponent by depriving her of it. When these characters are introduced a 2nd time into this title, their very goal is to deprive Earth of breathe-able oxygen to rule an airless world where fire cannot be used against them.

-- Superman struggles with his lone opponent but defeats him, not through any intrinsic power, but through clever use of the environment, exploiting the Martian weakness to heat by relocating them to where geothermal energy knocks most of the fight out of Protex.

-- While Superman presents having overcome ONE White Martian, Batman presents having at least THREE of them helplessly in tow.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Squallx


Superman has legitimately threaten actually elemental tha were as big as mountains with his presence alone.




Most of Superman's truly dangerous enemies are smaller than a rhino.
Size isn't usually the primary determinant of threat level in comics.


Having said that, inasmuch as you seem to think very highly of what is, ultimately, a convincing speech by Superman, not an action, I'll go ahead and post the episode you refer to:

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37704309_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37704310_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37704311_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37704312_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37704313_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37704314_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37704315_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37704316_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37704317_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37704318_image.jpg

Source: Superman #209, Volume 2
Writer: Brian Azzarello
Circa: November 2004

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Squallx


Batman took down CF. Is Batman>every leaguers now?

Superman has legitimately threaten actually elemental tha were as big as mountains with his presence alone.




Again, Batman is one of comicdom's greatest overachievers.

Superman convinced 4 entities he was capable of and would destroy planet Earth?

Batman convinced Darkseid, conqueror of worlds guarded BY supermen, that he would destroy planet Apokolips -- IF he did not accede to Batman's wishes.

Darkseid not only complied, but told Batman the threat would NOT have worked had it come from either Wonder Woman or Superman himself:


https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37704344_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37704345_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37704346_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37704347_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37704348_image.jpg

Source: Superman/Batman #12
Writer: Jeph Loeb
Circa: September 2004

bluewaterrider
I'd collected these to illustrate that Supes and Wondy, despite all their power, still need to breathe in most incarnations. 2 of them I've covered; I think the middle one is from Flashpoint #3:

https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37704551_image.jpg

https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37704552_image.jpg

https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37704553_image.jpg

DarkSaint85
Solar flare.

bluewaterrider
???

confused

DarkSaint85
Look it up.

bluewaterrider
https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37704603_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37704604_image.jpg

Quite a few people's hopes dashed with that news, I imagine ...

Depending on how many light years distant that event is, though, that's probably an event long passed. I'll give it some more research attention in a bit, though.

abhilegend
This just gets more hilarious by every post. Freeze breath anyone?

DarkSaint85
Freeze breath, HV, Solar flare....or just sonic attacks.

abhilegend
Or simply punch him once.

abhilegend
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
The YJ (Young Justice) version of Clayface, as shown above, apparently doesn't need magic or Kryptonite to defeat the Young Justice version of Superboy.

From the little I could glean from the Young Justice comic, that might make a very good case that Clayface would take the Young Justice of Superman as well, if, ignoring the fact Clayface took Aqualad, Miss Martian, Kid Flash AND Superboy at the same time doesn't already do it. Certainly, presented with that and something like the following, it's easy to draw that conclusion:

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37698215_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37698216_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37698217_image.jpg

Source: Young Justice #6
Circa: September 2011

I shouldn't even be surprised why you cropped the last scan.

https://s17.postimg.org/e2ktrrwqj/image.jpg https://s17.postimg.org/slryt6xl7/image.jpg https://s17.postimg.org/4i174wmu3/image.jpg https://s17.postimg.org/fhmegikyz/image.jpg https://s17.postimg.org/w5dwj0v63/image.jpg https://s17.postimg.org/57jzhai8r/image.jpg https://s17.postimg.org/h9fdbg6wr/image.jpg

For anyone who was wondering, the full scene.

DarkSaint85
Wow. Very dishonest of bluewaterrider...

abhilegend
Is anyone even surprised?

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Freeze breath, HV, Solar flare ...or just sonic attacks.



You're positing this as a pretty desperate fight if you're suggesting Superman would resort to "solar flare" level effort to take Clayface down.

The first instance of this, after all, was last-ditch, accidental, burned things for miles, including Superman's own armor, knocked Superman out ALONG with his opponent, AND left Superman powerless for 20+ hours afterward:


https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37706333_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37706334_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37706335_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37706336_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37706337_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37706338_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37706339_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37706340_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37706341_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37706342_image.jpg

Source: Superman #38
Circa: March 2015

DarkSaint85
Rebirth Superman didn't have that though.

More, your scans are showing what.....that Clayface would choke him out, and then, despite literally dying as he's choking, he WOULDN'T use the flare or HV etc?

bluewaterrider
It's actually a little difficult to say exactly what Nu52 Superman would do if someone like Clayface were empowered and got the drop on him. That particular version of Superman was more wild and ruthless as a fighter than most of the other versions of Superman that we've seen.

The setting and circumstances of the fight are going to matter quite a bit here.
No in-character version of mainstream Superman is going to deliberately place the lives of innocents in deadly peril if he can help it.

On the other hand, Nu52 was usually savvy and powerful enough to relocate the fight to a location where he COULD safely use a fuller extent of his power without hurting others. Assuming DC didn't already feature it, Clayface versus Nu52 Superman could have made a good comic book read.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I don't think you realize the level of punching strength an all out Superman can bring lol.

Share with us the level of punching strength "standard" Superman can bring.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Share with us the level of punching strength "standard" Superman can bring.

Why did you change my words?

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why did change my words?


Perhaps he figured you should have a taste of your own medicine, as you certainly had no trouble trying to alter what I wrote on page 1 of this thread.



I made an interesting discovery today; particularly so in light of me including mention of 1960s Superman several pages ago.



Clayface versus Silver Age Superman, Part 1.

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37710282_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37710283_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37710284_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37710285_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37710286_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37710287_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37710288_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37710289_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37710290_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37710291_image.jpg

bluewaterrider
This entry is noteworthy for several reasons:

-- Features Clayface taking on, arguably, THE most powerful conventional version of Superman ever published.

-- Effectively explores Clayface's ability to mimic an opponent's DNA before genetics was a thing.

-- Shows us a Clayface, who, even at "normal" Clayface power levels, proved able to thwart environmental conditions used in later years to subdue him.
(Note in the previous post Clayface actually swims to safety. Contrast that episode to his run-in with Loeb's Supergirl several decades later.)



Clayface versus Silver Age Superman, Part 2.

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37710333_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37710334_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37710335_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37710336_image.jpg

Source: World's Finest #140
Writer: Dave Wood
Circa: March 1964

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Perhaps he figured you should have a taste of your own medicine, as you certainly had no trouble trying to alter what I wrote on page 1 of this thread.


Oh? So you'd be equally attracted to the mental image of the two fighting if they were male?

bluewaterrider
erm Just can't help yourself, can you?

Least you're consistent ...



For the record, considering how Romita drew World War Hulk versus Sentry, and later, as shown a little earlier, Ulysses versus solar-flaring Superman,

Romita drawing Sentry versus Ulysses, or even Romita drawing Sentry versus solar-flaring Superman would also make an interesting visual.




Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Bluewaterrider, heed the summons!

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Sorry, D.S.

That topic of "Supergirl versus Marvel bricks" is about as interesting as a wheelbarrow full OF bricks right now. Had me musing for a moment what Jane versus Kara would like from a visual standpoint, though.



Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Boo.

You think Jane Thor is on her level, or is it simply because she too is female?


Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Again, would just be an interesting visual.

Jane as Thor is essentially Supergirl with a hammer.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ok so just because she's female then. Fair enough ...

Parmaniac
Why is this still going?

bluewaterrider
Clayface versus Superman is Clayface's engagement to win in a well thought out scenario matchup.

The match is fairly interesting if Superman is limited to hand-to-hand combat without recourse to environmental resources.

Forum matches, however, need to provide some means of dealing with Superman's intrinsic, considerable command of heat and cold to be competitive.

The remainder of what I'll show, with few if any exceptions, will underscore the above assertions. If on review I discover I haven't given a cover scan so the book these images come from can be tracked down, I might later provide reference information.

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740618_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740619_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740620_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740621_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740622_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740623_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740624_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740625_image.jpg

bluewaterrider
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740663_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740664_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740665_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740666_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740667_image.jpg

bluewaterrider
https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37740676_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37740677_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37740678_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37740679_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37740680_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37740681_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37740682_image.jpg

bluewaterrider
https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37740689_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37740690_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37740691_image.jpg

One Big Mob
OZfbpWmy9Y

bluewaterrider
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740702_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740703_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740704_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740705_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740706_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740707_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37740708_image.jpg

bluewaterrider
https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37740750_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37740751_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37740752_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37740753_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37740754_image.jpg

Source: Supergirl #33
Circa: November 2008

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