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composite luke, vader, yoda, kenobi and maul are transported to time square. they run a gauntlet of teams. how far do they get? (order is not precise though i tried to get it mostly right--certain individuals may cause more trouble than others. i think there is a lot of good discussion to be had. jedi v raven? ghost rider? brother voodoo?) anyway, to arms!

1. new thunderbolts: punisher, rulk, elektra, pool and black tarantula

2. classic champions: herc, angel, ice man, black widow, ghost rider

3. ff: sue, ben, johnny, reed and she-hulk

4. x-men: colossus, storm, cyclops, emma, night crawler

5. suicide squad: croc, harley, enchantress, deadshot and katana

6. titans: nightwing, cyborg, changeling, starfire and raven

7. uncanny avengers: vision, brother voodoo, quicksilver, rogue and sabertooth

8. new champions: chulk, viv vision, cyclops, nova (sam) and ms marvel (kamala)

ADDED BONUS: who do you figure is the most powerful character all 5 at once can take? black adam? unworthy thor? apocalypse? god cable?

just how far can these jedi go??

the shouldnt get past one but if they manange 2 is over and done.

thing

Comic or movies?

Would luke be considered mid herald level based on his comic feats?

Maul and Kenobi are overpowered. Way too powerful for anyone in this thread

I don't see how they make it past the first team. Not with Rulk there.

With composite feats, they easily clear.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Maul and Kenobi are overpowered. Way too powerful for anyone in this thread

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Comic or movies?

Would luke be considered mid herald level based on his comic feats?

realistically, even with composite versions (as i said i was using) i wouldn't place him in mid-herald. digi knows him pretty well, and we had a classic bz at high meta level where he used composite luke. ha can likely beat SOME low metas, but he would certainly lose to some as well. a case can be made that yoda may is a more legit low herald i think, (galan?) and vader can match luke, and maybe exceed him in some areas, but basically i think they range from high mid meta here to maybe high low herald. at least that's how i see them in general terms. though i am open to reinterpretation.

Originally posted by Surtur
I don't see how they make it past the first team. Not with Rulk there.

it would depend on how many were left standing. we saw what a pair of claws into hulk's brain can do. a light saber or 2 should be able to do the same and at the very least get a ko ftw. speaking as devil's advocate of course.

a composite may beat a hulk...stranger things snd what not. but iceman/rider would solo, possibly immortal herc.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
a composite may beat a hulk...stranger things snd what not. but iceman/rider would solo, possibly immortal herc. soul siphon, dark transfer, and bfr should do it. Force storm could also work.

Originally posted by leonidas
realistically, even with composite versions (as i said i was using) i wouldn't place him in mid-herald. digi knows him pretty well, and we had a classic bz at high meta level where he used composite luke. ha can likely beat SOME low metas, but he would certainly lose to some as well. a case can be made that yoda may is a more legit low herald i think, (galan?) and vader can match luke, and maybe exceed him in some areas, but basically i think they range from high mid meta here to maybe high low herald. at least that's how i see them in general terms. though i am open to reinterpretation.

Would depend on if you took their top showings or average, likely. Most of the best Jedi have 1-2 feats that are otherworldly, but most times look solidly mid or high meta.

Composite Luke was starting to put together enough esoteric powers that he was probably pushing the line into low herald. But like, if you just look at traditional combat feats like speed, tk feats, telepathy, etc. he has several equals or betters in high meta.

Originally posted by deathslash
soul siphon, dark transfer, and bfr should do it. Force storm could also work. Just jabbing a lightsaber in would beat Iceman in 99 percent of his appearances.

He's far removed from his 2006 Elemental Ice God Forum Form. Beating Superman and Silver Surfer... suck my ass he ever does that.

I was going to post a long explanation, but decided not to.

Originally posted by leonidas
composite luke, vader, yoda, kenobi and maul are transported to time square. they run a gauntlet of teams. how far do they get? (order is not precise though i tried to get it mostly right--certain individuals may cause more trouble than others. i think there is a lot of good discussion to be had. jedi v raven? ghost rider? brother voodoo?) anyway, to arms!

1. new thunderbolts: punisher, rulk, elektra, pool and black tarantula

2. classic champions: herc, angel, ice man, black widow, ghost rider

3. ff: sue, ben, johnny, reed and she-hulk

4. x-men: colossus, storm, cyclops, emma, night crawler

5. suicide squad: croc, harley, enchantress, deadshot and katana

6. titans: nightwing, cyborg, changeling, starfire and raven

7. uncanny avengers: vision, brother voodoo, quicksilver, rogue and sabertooth

8. new champions: chulk, viv vision, cyclops, nova (sam) and ms marvel (kamala)

ADDED BONUS: who do you figure is the most powerful character all 5 at once can take? black adam? unworthy thor? apocalypse? god cable?

just how far can these jedi go??

I think they could clear up to about #7. I don't know that they always would, though, or how likely some are. Power people like Rulk, Shulk, Herc, etc. could obviously pull wins. But lightsabers' deus ex-style cutting ability is a great answer to bricks of any stature.

And you're right, how they'd interact with people like Ghost Rider (no idea), Raven (I'd probably favor the Jedi, since her primary go-tos are empathic attacks and tk, both of which they can counter handily, and they tend to have a firmer grasp over their emotions, which can be turned against Raven), and magic (again, no idea) throws a monkey wrench into anything resembling certainty.

Are light sabers in the comics really OP? You think they'd slice up Herc?

Waiting for Galan to post how Vader force chokes & snaps their necks while from entire galaxies away and masturbating...

Or you just wanted Luke to be a composite version, Leo?

Originally posted by deathslash
soul siphon, dark transfer, and bfr should do it. Force storm could also work.


no....i cant even recall any of the mentioned using a force storm or dark transfer

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Just jabbing a lightsaber in would beat Iceman in 99 percent of his appearances.

He's far removed from his 2006 Elemental Ice God Forum Form. Beating Superman and Silver Surfer... suck my ass he ever does that.


read more comics...he can as he has recently frozen light speed, frozen someone from inside out and created sentinal sized golems that work independently of him

Iceman sucks most of the time, even when he's supposed to have uber power.

He did have great showings in latest years, though. Most recently against Amped Juggernaut... and Bobby was holding back, as he's no longer going crazy owning everyone in his way.

So yeah, Iceman is a threat. His character sucks, he's literally gay and writers can't decide what to do with him, but he is a threat on vs boards.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
no....i cant even recall any of the mentioned using a force storm or dark transfer




read more comics...he can as he has recently frozen light speed, frozen someone from inside out and created sentinal sized golems that work independently of him by the time he was grand master, Luke had learned everything that he could regarding the force. He was trained by some of the most skilled and knowledgeable force users ever, had access to the spirits of the Jedi that had become one with the force, and had even been trained by Sidious. Even assuming that Luke couldn't use those powers, he can still achieve the same effect as using a force storm by using fold space.

Luke caught Tadar'Ro's eye and smiled a little. Then, before Ben knew what was happening, there was a sharp pop of displaced air. The Vor'cha stick simply vanished from his hands to reappear in his father's. He gaped for a second, and then realized that while he had been studying so hard to learn flow-walking, Luke had readily mastered the other known Aing-Tii Force technique. He laughed a little as Luke tossed the stick back to his son.
Taken from: Fate of the Jedi : Omen

Leo got force-choked to near death here on KMC, that's why he made this thread.

Originally posted by deathslash
by the time he was grand master, Luke had learned everything that he could regarding the force. He was trained by some of the most skilled and knowledgeable force users ever, had access to the spirits of the Jedi that had become one with the force, and had even been trained by Sidious. Even assuming that Luke couldn't use those powers, he can still achieve the same effect as using a force storm by using fold space.

Luke caught Tadar'Ro's eye and smiled a little. Then, before Ben knew what was happening, there was a sharp pop of displaced air. The Vor'cha stick simply vanished from his hands to reappear in his father's. He gaped for a second, and then realized that while he had been studying so hard to learn flow-walking, Luke had readily mastered the other known Aing-Tii Force technique. He laughed a little as Luke tossed the stick back to his son.
Taken from: Fate of the Jedi : Omen

we dont assume he can until he does.

Originally posted by leonidas
sabertooth


re*

Originally posted by Sin I AM
we dont assume he can until he does. .....ok. So you agree that he can teleport them away though?

Originally posted by Damborgson
Are light sabers in the comics really OP? You think they'd slice up Herc?

I think they could, yes. Maybe not OHK, like how diamond is tougher than metal, but you'd need a ton of force to cut through a steel beam with, say, a diamond sword. But yeah, I think everyone would need to be careful around the sabers, including Herc.

Originally posted by deathslash
.....ok. So you agree that he can teleport them away though?


ghost riders can teleport luv

Originally posted by Sin I AM
no....i cant even recall any of the mentioned using a force storm or dark transfer




read more comics...he can as he has recently frozen light speed, frozen someone from inside out and created sentinal sized golems that work independently of him Ice Golems? Well in that case I see no reason why Clark Radd would lose.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Ice Golems? Well in that case I see no reason why Clark Radd would lose.

yes hes basically aoa iceman minus the evil streak

Originally posted by Sin I AM
ghost riders can teleport luv since when?

While we're at it, what's his durability usually look like?

Originally posted by deathslash
since when?

While we're at it, what's his durability usually look like?

ghost rider 1. depends on the rider.

I don't know that they get past 1, simply because of deadpool.

If they do, they should make it to Teen Titans, who put them down pretty handily.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I don't know that they get past 1, simply because of deadpool.

If they do, they should make it to Teen Titans, who put them down pretty handily. Titans are trash and would die like trash. Deadpool also dies very easily.

Originally posted by deathslash
Titans are trash and would die like trash. Deadpool also dies very easily.

Lol, Raven or Starfire alone could potentially take this. Starfire is FTL, and capable of overpowering the likes of Superboy, no-selling WonderGirl, and doing battle with both Wonder Woman AND Superman himself. Raven has similar feats, including being able to overpower the likes of Trigon, as white Raven. That's more impressive than even Grandmaster Luke's greatest feats. Trigon >>>>>>>> Abeloth, and Abeloth was over 10X more powerful than Luke.

Not to mention that the Teen Titans as a team managed to take out Superboy Prime. Given the entire team and some more were present, that's still a helluva feat for their team work. SBP could vaporize anyone here in less than a nano-second.

Also, how are they killing Deadpool? Lol

They're definitely not overwhelming the Titans though, regardless.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Lol, Raven or Starfire alone could potentially take this. Starfire is FTL, and capable of overpowering the likes of Superboy, no-selling WonderGirl, and doing battle with both Wonder Woman AND Superman himself. Raven has similar feats, including being able to overpower the likes of Trigon, as white Raven. That's more impressive than even Grandmaster Luke's greatest feats. Trigon >>>>>>>> Abeloth, and Abeloth was over 10X more powerful than Luke.

Not to mention that the Teen Titans as a team managed to take out Superboy Prime. Given the entire team and some more were present, that's still a helluva feat for their team work. SBP could vaporize anyone here in less than a nano-second.

Also, how are they killing Deadpool? Lol

They're definitely not overwhelming the Titans though, regardless. tell me about how durable their brains, lungs, and hearts are. Most of the Jedi are near relativistic in both speed and reaction. Raven is a notorious glass canon.

They don't need to kill Deadpool. Incapacitation works as well. Ever hear of force stasis? What about force lightning? Also, how would he be immune to having his head crushed? Is he immune to being teleported away?

pool can be ko'd pretty easily too. they don't need to kill him forever, just need a forum ko. /shrug

Any one of them can simply lift him up and pick him apart for the KO. Or choke him unconscious.

None of them really need to be even close to their adversaries, given their senses and range, so most of the fight the opponents wouldn't even know they're being attacked.

I don't have enough knowledge about Ghost Rider to be comfortable commenting on him, but Emma/Raven would be threats, or they get to 7.

i actually think sue could be a big problem if her ff can stop the force like it stops jean's tk. i don't know that any of them could really do anything about simultaneous bubbles in their brains or lungs.

It's the problem with the force, you can't really block it, since there's no point of reference in the DC/Marvel Universe. You can approximate it with TK, but that's only as far as pertaining to its use, the actual nature of it is quite different.

I think only pure durability can really go up against it. As in, your neck can resist something that moves spaceships or whatnot.

I don't think Sue's fast enough to quick draw even one of them, before they just snap her neck . And there's multiple force users. And if they're out of sight, they're unaffected in their use due to their senses, while she is not.

i agree--i could see the ff working though, as easily as i could see them NOT working. since it's essentially unprovable, i guess it falls under preference. i'm also not sure one of them could snap her neck before she gets up a shield--assuming that would prevent it. she thinks as fast as telepaths in marvel, and i don't see any of the jedi out-thinking emma, or charles or any of the other major psi's.

Originally posted by leonidas
pool can be ko'd pretty easily too.

Depends on the writer. Sometimes it's ridiculously hard to put him to sleep...

yeah, i'd agree the higher order jedis can outthink her. young kenobi and maul though? i think a case can be made she could shield before they break her neck. CAN she shield? shrug

Black Tarantula?

I need to check out New Thunderbolts.