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https://i.imgflip.com/25prwa.jpg

Morrison JLA Wally West (arguably Flash at the top of his game.)
All battles would be no prep, no BFR in the middle of the desert.
NOT A GAUNTLET.
Can Flash beat any/all of the following yes or no.

SILVER SURFER
NOVA
FIRELORD
TERRAX

https://i.imgflip.com/25prkz.jpg

Any of the Heralds shitstomps Wally.

Norrin should be able to negate most of the speed force's effects, have tricks of his own (He can freeze time), and have the raw speed.


Firelord and Terrax are kind of jobber heralds. Terrax lost to Space Knights, Firelord lost to Spidey.


Nova... wasn't she captured by Skrulls? Don't really know anything else about her.

Flash beats them all.

Yeah he would beat them, especially if he is going all out.

Can't think of a time Flash had consistent, good track records against Heralds. When he fights them, they usually brush off his attacks. KMC version of Flash clears this with all of them not even knowing what happened when they wake up. The real Flash that we see every week in comics dies immediately by anyone here.

Originally posted by carver9
Can't think of a time Flash had consistent, good track records against Heralds. When he fights them, they usually brush off his attacks. KMC version of Flash clears this with all of them not even knowing what happened when they wake up. The real Flash that we see every week in comics dies immediately by anyone here.

IOW, PIS

This ain't a comic fight

Flash stomps all of them simultaneously before they can react

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
IOW, PIS

This ain't a comic fight

Then don't post scans when debating a character.

Originally posted by carver9
Then don't post scans when debating a character.

Lol.

Can Flash shoot fire from his eyes? We use comics to prove what he can or cannot do.

When people argue for Flash, they use comics to show that he is indeed capable of it. How do we know he has the abilities to beat these guys? We have comics.

Flash never beat a Superman-like character. He has no chance against this team. Period.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Flash never beat a Superman-like character. He has no chance against this team. Period.


https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120267/3357176-5828646591-32268.jpg

Originally posted by cdtm
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120267/3357176-5828646591-32268.jpg

Rofl.

Feats for Zum that put him at Herald-level, please. Not statements that "he is as powerful as Superman'.

I knew that you would post that feat.

Seriously your arguments, as a whole, are BAD.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol.

Can Flash shoot fire from his eyes? We use comics to prove what he can or cannot do.

When people argue for Flash, they use comics to show that he is indeed capable of it. How do we know he has the abilities to beat these guys? We have comics.

So you use comics to prove that he have speed while ignoring capabilities? With that said, Hulk can thunderclap and the near unlimited strength. With that said, i can just say Hulk can thunderclap the Universe to dust?

Originally posted by carver9
So you use comics to prove that he have speed while ignoring capabilities? With that said, Hulk can thunderclap and the near unlimited strength. With that said, i can just say Hulk can thunderclap the Universe to dust?
Hulk doesn't have unlimited strength

he has the potential for that

We do know Flash can steal speed though. We do know he can move several times faster than Light. We do know he is capable of doing IMP

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Hulk doesn't have unlimited strength

he has the potential for that

We do know Flash can steal speed though. We do know he can move several times faster than Light. We do know he is capable of doing IMP

All this.

Has Flash fought within a picosecond?

Yes.

Has he used the IMP WITHIN a nanosecond?

Yes.

Did he move so fast Pre Crisis heroes were unable to see him?

Yes.

Did he blow the Anti Monitor up so quickly, pre Crisis heroes thought he was spontaneously exploding? Yes.

Has he run through billions of possible outcomes within a nanosecond?

Yes.

Has Hulk thunderclapped?

Yes.

Has Hulk used unlimited strength to thunderclapped?

Ermmmm........

See the difference?

Flash wins high difficulty

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Hulk doesn't have unlimited strength

he has the potential for that

We do know Flash can steal speed though. We do know he can move several times faster than Light. We do know he is capable of doing IMP

He nearly over powered an Abstract that possess unlimited power. Let's just take it to Galaxy level thunderclap then. He possess the strength as shown on panel and he has shown that he can thunderclap.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
All this.

Has Flash fought within a picosecond?

Yes.

Has he used the IMP WITHIN a nanosecond?

Yes.

Did he move so fast Pre Crisis heroes were unable to see him?

Yes.

Did he blow the Anti Monitor up so quickly, pre Crisis heroes thought he was spontaneously exploding? Yes.

Has he run through billions of possible outcomes within a nanosecond?

Yes.

Has Hulk thunderclapped?

Yes.

Has Hulk used unlimited strength to thunderclapped?

Ermmmm........

See the difference?

Surfer wraps adamantium around Superman skull and then proceed blasting him with red sun radiation for the 10/10 as soon as the bell ring.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer wraps adamantium around Superman skull and then proceed blasting him with red sun radiation for the 10/10 as soon as the bell ring.

So he has done all of this?

You have scans of him actually finding out an opponent's weakness and acting on it (and not just threatening; otherwise I can use Flash THREATENING to throw a thousand IMPs before a speedster can blink as proof)?

Scan of him wrapping adamantium around opponents' skulls?

I can show scans of Flash speedstealing from speedsters.

Flash throwing IMP within a picosecond, blitzing a speedster.

Running billions of scenarios within a nanosecond etc.

You, have to prove that Surfer can/has done what you say he can/will do.

Is Surfer more versatile? Of course. Yes, he is. 1000% agree.

But versatility doesn't mean anything when one guy is faster.

Flash struggles against a Gorilla when this one doesn't have super-speed.

Batman one-shots silverback gorillas via strikes to the pressure-points.

Nuff said.

The team destroys him.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Flash struggles against a Gorilla when this one doesn't have super-speed.

Batman one-shots silverback gorillas via strikes to the pressure-points.

Nuff said.

The team destroys him.
(a) Gorilla Grodd isn't a regular gorilla.

(b) Using only the lowest showings for the DC char and only the highest showings for the Marvel char is NOT how a forum fight between the two works (unless stated otherwise in the OP). Silver Surfer is known to job as well; to a mexican sledgehammer, and to a peak-human armbar, just to name a few.

Ps. And comparing to the Bat-God doesn't really help with your argument. :P

Originally posted by Magnon
(a) Gorilla Grodd isn't a regular gorilla.

(b) Using only the lowest showings for the DC char and only the highest showings for the Marvel char is NOT how a forum fight between the two works (unless stated otherwise in the OP). Silver Surfer is known to job as well; to a mexican sledgehammer, and to a peak-human armbar, just to name a few.

Ps. And comparing to the Bat-God doesn't really help with your argument. :P

What is Flash highest fighting showing and name those High Heralds he have defeated since you're bringing up Surfer jobbing.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So he has done all of this?

You have scans of him actually finding out an opponent's weakness and acting on it (and not just threatening; otherwise I can use Flash THREATENING to throw a thousand IMPs before a speedster can blink as proof)?

Scan of him wrapping adamantium around opponents' skulls?

I can show scans of Flash speedstealing from speedsters.

Flash throwing IMP within a picosecond, blitzing a speedster.

Running billions of scenarios within a nanosecond etc.

You, have to prove that Surfer can/has done what you say he can/will do.

Is Surfer more versatile? Of course. Yes, he is. 1000% agree.

But versatility doesn't mean anything when one guy is faster.

So you want me to post Surfer using weakness exploiting against opponents?

You want me to post Surfer creating objects out of thin air? Im sure you're familiar with the character and know he is capable of these things.

Good argument, Carver.

Flash throws 1000 imp's. No need to prove it, because I'm sure you're familiar with the character, and know he is capable of these things.

Originally posted by Magnon
(a) Gorilla Grodd isn't a regular gorilla.

He is still depicted as slow as a normal gorilla.



I am using all showings.

Have you read any recent stories with Wally ?



I know. Shame on me.

Originally posted by carver9
So you want me to post Surfer using weakness exploiting against opponents?

You want me to post Surfer creating objects out of thin air? Im sure you're familiar with the character and know he is capable of these things.

Yup.

Scans of him using his powers to determine a characters weakness, then actually doing it. Not just threatening, like he did against Glads.
If you use the Glads showing, then to be fair, we can use Flash ONLY threatening to be able to launch 1000 IMPs as proof.

Then post a scan of him creating adamantium around an opponents skull.

You know, like you actually said.

I say Flash speedsteals. I can post scans of him speed stealing from speedsters. Amazo, who is easily trans.

I say he launches an IMP in a picosecond. I can post a scan of him doing exactly that, with Zoom. The guy who blitzes Flashes.

You say Surfer creates adamantium around someone's skull. Prove it. Scans of him doing so.

You say Surfer is able to discern that someone is weak to red Sun rads, and acts on it. Prove it. Scans of him doing so.

did carver just try to make hulk a galaxy buster....?


http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/laff.gif http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/laff.gif http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/laff.gif http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/laff.gif

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yup.

Scans of him using his powers to determine a characters weakness, then actually doing it. Not just threatening, like he did against Glads.
If you use the Glads showing, then to be fair, we can use Flash ONLY threatening to be able to launch 1000 IMPs as proof.

Then post a scan of him creating adamantium around an opponents skull.

You know, like you actually said.

I say Flash speedsteals. I can post scans of him speed stealing from speedsters. Amazo, who is easily trans.

I say he launches an IMP in a picosecond. I can post a scan of him doing exactly that, with Zoom. The guy who blitzes Flashes.

You say Surfer creates adamantium around someone's skull. Prove it. Scans of him doing so.

You say Surfer is able to discern that someone is weak to red Sun rads, and acts on it. Prove it. Scans of him doing so.

The scan you're asking for concerning the cosmic awareness, I can understand why you're asking for that but adamantium, I do not have to show you him creating adamantium. The only thing I need to show you is him matter manipulating. If I said he can create a candy in front of Superman, this shouldn't be questionable since again, he can matter manipulate.

Originally posted by carver9
The scan you're asking for concerning the cosmic awareness, I can understand why you're asking for that but adamantium, I do not have to show you him creating adamantium. The only thing I need to show you is him matter manipulating. If I said he can create a candy in front of Superman, this shouldn't be questionable since again, he can matter manipulate.

Erm, you claimed he can create adamantium, so prove he can create adamantium, lol. With a scan of him creating adamantium.

Then show him creating it around someone's head, like you claimed.

I claim Flash can IMP within a picosecond. I can back it up with proof. Can he punch? Yes. Can he IMP? Yes. Can he do it within a picosecond? Yes.

Every part of that sentence can be proved.

You claimed Surfer would know to use red sun rads, shoot it, then create adamantium around someone's head.

So prove every part of that sentence.

1. That he knows to use red sun rads.
2. That he can shoot this (should be easy, so I will let you off on this one hehe)
3. That he can create adamantium
4. That he would actually do it around someone's head

Your first post on this subject was that comic Flash was different from forum Flash.

Yet, Flash fans have comic scans to support their forum claims.

Can you prove every part of your forum claims?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm, you claimed he can create adamantium, so prove he can create adamantium, lol. With a scan of him creating adamantium.

Then show him creating it around someone's head, like you claimed.

I claim Flash can IMP within a picosecond. I can back it up with proof. Can he punch? Yes. Can he IMP? Yes. Can he do it within a picosecond? Yes.

Every part of that sentence can be proved.

You claimed Surfer would know to use red sun rads, shoot it, then create adamantium around someone's head.

So prove every part of that sentence.

1. That he knows to use red sun rads.
2. That he can shoot this (should be easy, so I will let you off on this one hehe)
3. That he can create adamantium
4. That he would actually do it around someone's head

Your first post on this subject was that comic Flash was different from forum Flash.

Yet, Flash fans have comic scans to support their forum claims.

Can you prove every part of your forum claims?

I don't need to prove he can create adamantium when he has shown high level matter manipulation.

Flash has imped and it was weak as hell. Surfer is more durable than Zoom and Zoom wasn't damaged at all. He also imped another speedster an they withstood it. Knocked out but no damaged at all. The punch you're calling an imp sucks tbh and Surfer tanks it since he has withstood so much more. If you disagree, please post proof of him koing someone with Herald level durability.

Originally posted by ghostman
did carver just try to make hulk a galaxy buster....?


http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/laff.gif http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/laff.gif http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/laff.gif http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/laff.gif

Read through the thread before insinuating anything. Your hate for Hulk has blinded you.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't need to prove he can create adamantium when he has shown high level matter manipulation.

Flash has imped and it was weak as hell. Surfer is more durable than Zoom and Zoom wasn't damaged at all. He also imped another speedster an they withstood it. Knocked out but no damaged at all. The punch you're calling an imp sucks tbh and Surfer tanks it since he has withstood so much more. If you disagree, please post proof of him koing someone with Herald level durability.

You claimed it, then prove it. I mean, you're the one asking for proof all the time right? Yet, when asked for proof...I mean, when has Surfer ever wrapped someone's head in adamantium? Let's ignore your claim for a minute. When has he wrapped someone's head in anything, full stop?

And now look at you. Moving the goalposts. Asking ME to prove something when you've been caught out.

But I will play.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113402/3588272-3558448-wally%2Bwest%2Bvs%2Banti%2Bmonitor%2B%2815%29.jpg

Dunno who that guy is. He looks quite big though. Let's low-ball and say he's....low herald? High meta?

Now, you please. Please post scans proving your claims of Surfer wrapping adamantium around someone's head. Or any material. Paper, cloth, wood, whatever.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You claimed it, then prove it. I mean, you're the one asking for proof all the time right? Yet, when asked for proof...I mean, when has Surfer ever wrapped someone's head in adamantium? Let's ignore your claim for a minute. When has he wrapped someone's head in anything, full stop?

And now look at you. Moving the goalposts. Asking ME to prove something when you've been caught out.

But I will play.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113402/3588272-3558448-wally%2Bwest%2Bvs%2Banti%2Bmonitor%2B%2815%29.jpg

Dunno who that guy is. He looks quite big though. Let's low-ball and say he's....low herald? High meta?

Now, you please. Please post scans proving your claims of Surfer wrapping adamantium around someone's head. Or any material. Paper, cloth, wood, whatever.

He's trapped Super Skrull's head in an invisible vice(though he was half nuts with grief here)...
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/43640/5936993-ss_v3_105_12a.jpg

And while it's not restricted to his head specifically, he's trapped Galactus for a bit in a head to toe cocoon of hardened energy...
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/combat/FantasticFour50-02.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/combat/FantasticFour50-03.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/combat/FantasticFour50-04.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You claimed it, then prove it. I mean, you're the one asking for proof all the time right? Yet, when asked for proof...I mean, when has Surfer ever wrapped someone's head in adamantium? Let's ignore your claim for a minute. When has he wrapped someone's head in anything, full stop?

And now look at you. Moving the goalposts. Asking ME to prove something when you've been caught out.

But I will play.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113402/3588272-3558448-wally%2Bwest%2Bvs%2Banti%2Bmonitor%2B%2815%29.jpg

Dunno who that guy is. He looks quite big though. Let's low-ball and say he's....low herald? High meta?

Now, you please. Please post scans proving your claims of Surfer wrapping adamantium around someone's head. Or any material. Paper, cloth, wood, whatever.

Lol... why do you debate like this? It's hilarious to me. Hulk have abstract level strength. Thor has Chaos King damaging level blasts. Thor have Celestial tanking durability. Thanos have Galaxy level durability.

Let's make this even sweeter. Surfer took on two Galactus level beings and endured their attacks AND beat them.

https://m.imgur.com/a/U87Fg

Abstract Surfer for the win.
Does this apply to everyone. Single showings, is this the way you always debate? Use one showing to determine a person's power level.

By the way, Anti Monitor was ok after that attack.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... why do you debate like this? It's hilarious to me. Hulk have abstract level strength. Thor has Chaos King damaging level blasts. Thor have Celestial tanking durability. Thanos have Galaxy level durability.

Let's make this even sweeter. Surfer took on two Galactus level beings and endured their attacks AND beat them.

https://m.imgur.com/a/U87Fg

Abstract Surfer for the win.
Does this apply to everyone. Single showings, is this the way you always debate? Use one showing to determine a person's power level.

By the way, Anti Monitor was ok after that attack.

Lol you asked for a showing, so I provided one. Don't cry.

Surfer used the Crunch to beat them. Flash.....didn't use anything to blow his armour up.

Btw, the point was that he blew his armour up.

So now that we got that nonsense out of the way, time for you to show Surfer wrapping adamantium around someone's head. Go for it.

You know, like you claimed.

Not sure you know what you're arguing, carver.

Point 1: you argue that comic Flash is different from forum Flash.
Rebuttal: Actually, comics show Flash doing everything forum Flash is said to be able to do

Point 2: Na-uh! You're using single showings!
Rebuttal: Single showings of.....comics? IOW, COMIC Flash = Forum Flash?

Point 3: Well, well, errr in that case, Surfer (and it's always Surfer) does XYZ to Superman (and it's always Superman).
Rebuttal: NOW forum Surfer is very different from comics Surfer. If you have the scans to prove XYZ, just like Flash fans do, then post them.

Point 4: Errr....here is an unrelated scan of Surfer channeling the Crunch and nearly dying in the process.
Rebuttal: That's.....that's not adamantium or cosmic awareness to pinpoint weaknesses.....

There you have it, carvster. All summarised for you. As usual, you make silly comments, then backtrack and slip and twist in an effort to escape. I'm surprised you didn't try to stretch the page and scan dump with unrelated scans, and only limited yourself to one!

As for the thread, yes, Flash can beat them. He would have to pull his high end showings out, of course, but that is testament to the formidability of his opponents here.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He's trapped Super Skrull's head in an invisible vice(though he was half nuts with grief here)...
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/43640/5936993-ss_v3_105_12a.jpg

And while it's not restricted to his head specifically, he's trapped Galactus for a bit in a head to toe cocoon of hardened energy...
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/combat/FantasticFour50-02.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/combat/FantasticFour50-03.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/combat/FantasticFour50-04.jpg
Totally a black hole inside the brain there.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Totally a black hole inside the brain there.

Flash has been restricted to Morrison's era....and I can still post scans proving what I say. I used the Amazo showing, true, but could have easily used the Cosmic Gamblers showing instead.

Surfer has his entire history to fall back on. Still no scans of what carver claims

People using the anti-monitor scan ? Really ?

Wasn't Flash drawn after the speed force after that feat making it an auto-loss ?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Totally a black hole inside the brain there.
I never said it was. DS asked for an example of Surfer wrapping an opponents head in ANYTHING, so I provided two examples of him doing so.