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First thing's first, I'm not talking about the stereotypical sweatshop, I'm talking about something a lot more beneficial to the children in question. The simple truth of the matter is that older foster children are EXCEPTIONALLY difficult to place successfully. Their situations cause all kinds of mental and emotional issues that can haunt them their entire lives and keep them from properly functioning adult society. So in my mind, it seems like a good alternative would be to give them the option(it'd be a voluntary program) of signing up to work for the government in various work camps. They'd work for below minimum wage but be provided a place to live and food to eat for no cost. They'd get to keep half of their paycheck and the other half would go into a trust fund that they'd get access to when they turned 18. And there'd be different kinds of camps available where they could learn trades in agriculture, manufacturing, computers, etc. The goods and services they provide could be used as a way to help pay for the camps themselves to minimize the amount of money the government has to subsidize. This way, by the time the kids turn 18 they've learned to manage personal wealth effectively, they have money saved so they can hit the ground running in regards to finding a place to live and a means of transportation, and they'd already have a few years of experience in a trade.

I know such a thing would require a LOT of over site to make sure the kids weren't actually being abused or forced to stay there against their will, but if it was handled correctly I really think it could be beneficial to kids that would otherwise have a really tough life in store for them after they turn 18.

exploiting children for labor, but with oversight. what could go wrong.

How about they go to school like a normal kid, and upon turning 18, then they can learn a trade or something.

with 20% of our military budget we could probably just clone them all new parents.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
exploiting children for labor, but with oversight. what could go wrong.
It's not exploiting them, because there'd be no way for the government to turn any kind of profit. The whole thing is voluntary and the kids could go back into the foster system any time they wanted to.

Originally posted by BackFire
How about they go to school like a normal kid, and upon turning 18, then they can learn a trade or something.
Because the current foster system sucks and the older kids who are constantly bounced around frequently don't do well anyway. And there could still be some kind of educational tutoring programs at the facilities.

What kind of tutoring? What would the ratio be between educating them and having them do cheap labor? How many hours a day would they be forced to work/do tutoring? How would this actually be an improvement? Who would oversee this? And wouldn't this cause some normal people to lose their jobs, as companies begin trying to make deals to get cheap child labor to do the work that employees once did?

Damm orfuns steelin are jubs

Squall:

I can't imagine anyone caring enough to teach a kid survival skills these days.

Just look at nursing homes. The elderly represent the opposite side of the coin of vulnerable people at the end of their days, as opposed to orphans at the start of theirs. The people paid to care for these seniors simply don't give a shit. And no one managing gives a shit.

I know this from personal experience, both from family in the system, and from a friend who's mother works as a nurses aid.


The people involved simply DO.NOT.CARE.


I'd imagine it's the same for orphans. Nobody cares enough to give these kids a shot.

We should make the old people in nursing homes sew for money. Worked in Happy Gilmore.

Look I'm not saying that this is anywhere near an ideal system, but it's a pragmatic way to help thousands of kids who currently suffer under the status quo. While the country argues trying to agree on something everyone considers "perfect" there are a whole bunch of 18 year olds who get cut loose every year with damaged social skills, a limited education, and virtually no work ethic. This system could start helping those kids while we keep arguing over what would constitute a better system.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Look I'm not saying that this is anywhere near an ideal system, but it's a pragmatic way to help thousands of kids who currently suffer under the status quo. While the country argues trying to agree on something everyone considers "perfect" there are a whole bunch of 18 year olds who get cut loose every year with damaged social skills, a limited education, and virtually no work ethic. This system could start helping those kids while we keep arguing over what would constitute a better system.

That's what the porn industry is for, silly.

Originally posted by darthgoober
It's not exploiting them, because there'd be no way for the government to turn any kind of profit. The whole thing is voluntary and the kids could go back into the foster system any time they wanted to.


thats just offering a carrot and a stick. totally fair choice to impose on those lazy orphans.

I'm sympathetic towards the idea of making it easier to learn a trade in general. I think we should offer more options in public high schools to concentrate more on a trade like plumbing or auto repair or something. Auto repair is an elective at schools today, but there's no real benefit to taking it. Make it possible to be a more central role in high school progression and I think that would help a lot.

well yeah education and skill training are definitely the way to go. but that has to be the requirement, not an option.

Originally posted by jaden101
That's what the porn industry is for, silly.

The lucky ones who don't get ground up into pork for chinese food..

Originally posted by BackFire
What kind of tutoring? What would the ratio be between educating them and having them do cheap labor? How many hours a day would they be forced to work/do tutoring? How would this actually be an improvement? Who would oversee this? And wouldn't this cause some normal people to lose their jobs, as companies begin trying to make deals to get cheap child labor to do the work that employees once did?
Hell I don't know, that's something that could be worked out though. If nothing else they could get some old computers and let the kids study and take classes that way. Most of the average school day is filled with "busy work" so honestly just 2 or 3 hours on the computer should be plenty.

And no, the way I'm picturing it people losing their jobs to cheap labor would never actually be an issue because only government work camps would be allowed. That would be an absolute necessity because if you gave the option to private businesses the stereotypical hellhole sweatshop would be inevitable. You have to keep the system small enough that it can be adequately supervised.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
thats just offering a carrot and a stick. totally fair choice to impose on those lazy orphans.
And you think giving them no choice and forcing them to remain in the current system is better for them?

Originally posted by BackFire
I'm sympathetic towards the idea of making it easier to learn a trade in general. I think we should offer more options in public high schools to concentrate more on a trade like plumbing or auto repair or something. Auto repair is an elective at schools today, but there's no real benefit to taking it. Make it possible to be a more central role in high school progression and I think that would help a lot.
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
well yeah education and skill training are definitely the way to go. but that has to be the requirement, not an option.

The school system isn't the problem for these kids, it's the foster system. Too many of them end up in a home with abusive foster parents who view them as little more than a source of income and outlets for the parents anger.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
with 20% of our military budget we could probably just clone them all new parents.
A scenario for a whacky sitcom if I ever heard one.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
exploiting children for labor, but with oversight. what could go wrong.

Isn't this what the Democrats want for all those DACA kids?

No.

If the sweatshops are allowed to pay the children only in peanut butter and jelly sandwiches...I'm all for it.

After 3 years they can earn the right to a pillow and move on up to blankets from there.

yea this is a dumb idea. they need nurturing and education not slave labor.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
yea this is a dumb idea. they need nurturing and education not slave labor.

Can't they just bring tutors to the sweatshop and tutor the kids on their 12 minute lunch breaks?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
yea this is a dumb idea. they need nurturing and education not slave labor.
It's not slave labor, they'd be getting paid, educated, and trained in a useful job skill that they volunteered for. I fully agree that the best possible thing for a foster child is to grow up in a nurturing house hold for for those who have that option I wouldn't even open the program to them. This wouldn't be for the kids who are easily placed in loving homes, it'd be for the 15 year olds that no one wants because of the attitude problems they've developed from being bounced around repeatedly and physically and/or sexually abused by someone in their foster families. Kids that are likely to end up as homeless runaways anyway.

I'm reasonably sure that the kids who spent years going through that kind of thing would agree with me that the option I'm talking about is better than forcing kids to stay in a system that allows for them to be repeatedly victimized.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No.

Oh I forgot. You prefer Homosexual Sex Slave Shops.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
with 20% of our military budget we could probably just clone them all new parents.

Do you even know how underpaid a soldier is? Especially a brand new private?

A person working a 9-5 job makes more than an E-1. The only reason a private survives, is because the military gave them a place to live.

Summer Camps main reason isn't to Entertain the Kids. Its to give the Parents a F-ing Break.

LoL @ the retards in here who are pushing for sweatshops/child labor.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL @ the retards in here who are pushing for sweatshops/child labor.

Much better to just Abort them all and just end the hassle before it starts. Huh robbie?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i was i retired

a brand new e1 makes about 19000 a year. divide that by 2080 and he makes about 9.25 an hour. Minimum wage is 7.25 (in texas,sc where army/marine/airforce basic training is) and 8.25 in illinois (where navy boot camp is) so not your first statement was wrong. add in the fact that most new enlisted soldiers get promoted twice AUTOMATICALLY within that first year (unless they phuck up) they wont be sitting at 9.25 for long. add in free medical, free dental, life insurance and dependents they make wayyyyyy more.

second part youre comparing forced fun with forced labor

Concise and accurate post

But your facts can't compete with feelings and playing victim. Sorry.

Originally posted by Robtard
Concise and accurate post

But your facts can't compete with feelings and playing victim. Sorry.

i suppose. just have to shutdown false narratives. Enlisted dont get paid as much as officers but the do get paid well considering they are fresh out of high school with no college education. Everything from clothing to housing to food is free. Your paycheck is YOUR paycheck.

as far as the kids labor thing goes i wish people would place themselves in those circumstances rather than spewing stuff they don't know about.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i suppose. just have to shutdown false narratives. Enlisted dont get paid as much as officers but the do get paid well considering they are fresh out of high school with no college education. Everything from clothing to housing to food is free. Your paycheck is YOUR paycheck.

as far as the kids labor thing goes i wish people would place themselves in those circumstances rather than spewing stuff they don't know about.

Oh, I know. I've never served and I knew all of that. Even if I just had free medical that would be a nice chunk of cash back in my pocket every month. Perks like free med, dental, housing, meals, marriage exceptions, child exceptions etc., all need to be factored in when comparing the wages of a soldier who gets that and a civilian who doesn't if we're being accurate/honest. Even if they both make $12.00 an hour, the grunt has less overhead chipping away at their earnings. As you said "Your paycheck is YOUR paycheck."

If only we still needed newsies we'd have a place for these orphans.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
have you ever been in a group home, half-way house, etc? what you are basically describing is job corps which is already in place. Troubled ophans dont need a job they need a family. Use those resources to find a suitable home. Not some shit job.


If enough suitable homes existed that were inclined to take in a troubled teen then there wouldn't be a problem in the first place now would there? There are too many foster kids, not enough homes for them, and an aversion to accepting a troubled older teen into the home preventing your ideal from ever actually being a reality. Happy stable households typically want babies and small children, they don't want a 15 year old with an attitude problem and/or violent tendencies even if those issues are rooted in the fact that the teen was repeatedly physically and sexually abused by their previous foster family. A lot of these kids aren't going to get families anyway and are simply going to be tossed out on the street to fend for themselves with zero life skills when they turn 18, how is preparing them to be able to fend for themselves worse than that fate?

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL @ the retards in here who are pushing for sweatshops/child labor.
Do you really think that voluntary child labor in a safe environment is worst than the sex trafficking that currently plagues the system,...

http://foster-care-newsletter.com/sex-trafficked-foster-kids-common-think/#.WqrAPejwa00

Look people in most places it's already ok for a 15 year old to get a job so I'm really not understanding what the big deal is here. I'm not talking about forcing an 8 year old to work 12 hours a day in a 100 degree factory for 25 cents an hour here, I'm talking about giving teens with a low probability of being placed in a loving home a chance to get a leg up on the real world before they're cut loose on their 18th birthday.

Sex = Fun
Work = Not Fun.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Do you really think that voluntary child labor in a safe environment is worst than the sex trafficking that currently plagues the system,...

http://foster-care-newsletter.com/sex-trafficked-foster-kids-common-think/#.WqrAPejwa00

Something being worse doesn't mean that another bad idea is good by that merit. They're both bad; one just happens to be worse.

Has been said before in here: what's wrong with these orphans going to school like non-orphaned children? Do some soul-searching, dude. You're better than this.

Originally posted by Robtard
Something being worse doesn't mean that another bad idea is good by that merit. They're both bad; one just happens to be worse.

Has been said before in here: what's wrong with these orphans going to school like non-orphaned children? Do some soul-searching, dude. You're better than this.
I already said that a system for basic education could be worked into it. I'm not proposing that we send the message that math's and English isn't necessary, I just happen to believe that the opportunity to spend 6 hours a day doing busy work in school probably isn't worth being raped repeatedly to those who have to suffer through it.

Or hell let's meet in the middle, would you be ok with the idea as long as the kids at the camps got bused to school everyday?

Or you know, just crack down on the sex-offenders instead of sending orphans to labor camps?

It doesn't have to be an: "you go to the sweatshop or you get anally raped, little Billy." either/or scenario as you're trying to force it to be.

Originally posted by Robtard
Or you know, just crack down on the sex-offenders instead of sending orphans to labor camps?

It doesn't have to be an: "you go to the sweatshop or you get anally raped, little Billy." either/or scenario as you're trying to force it to be.
We've been trying to crack down on the problem for years, it's still not going anywhere. So why wait for some magic remedy to people being pieces of shit if there's something we can do to help the problem NOW?

Well, if labor camps are the only solution in stopping orphans from being raped apparently, what happens when an orphan gets raped while at labor camp? *plot thickens*

Originally posted by Robtard
Well, if labor camps are the only solution in stopping orphans from being raped apparently, what happens when an orphan gets raped while at labor camp? *plot thickens*
That's why I talked about strict oversight of the whole thing. I'm not talking messing around when I say "strict", I'd damn near want to big brother the entire camps. What's more, it's still a voluntary program. One of it's primary appeals is that the kids are safer from rape, if rape becomes a problem no one's going to choose to stay there. Then they'd have to work AND be raped as opposed to just sitting around the house and being raped.

You're a weird, dude. You know that.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're a weird, dude. You know that.
I'm simply pragmatic. As we've discussed before, I don't have faith in human beings. I have no patience in waiting around for some magical shift in human nature or in simply hoping that one day things will somehow work out while children are abused DAILY. The foster system has been broken pretty much since it's inception so I think what we need to focus on is trying to make sure that more and more kids aren't screwed up forever while people who aren't currently suffering under it daily wish as hard as they can for someone to appear with a magic wand that suddenly makes all the bad stuff go away.

Right now under the current system, the kids I'm talking about are just screwed plain and simple. I think it's time we at least gave them another option even if it's not an ideal option.

darth you don't belong here. Go back home to the vs. Forum where you belong.

There's a thread right now about SS combat speed!

Originally posted by darthgoober
We've been trying to crack down on the problem for years, it's still not going anywhere. So why wait for some magic remedy to people being pieces of shit if there's something we can do to help the problem NOW?
So if u can't crack down on it on orphan homes, tell me why sweat shops will be different?

Your the one proposing the"magic remedy" atm. "Help the problem NOW" Tends to require magic. Real solutions usually aren't easy.

The best solution to "there's an issue with the foster system" is to fix the foster system, not sweatshops, lal.

Originally posted by Facee
darth you don't belong here.

Yeah, he belongs in a sweatshop.