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Neutral ground.

15 meters distance.

All out.

Who wins?

Krayt probably takes Vitiate at this stage, so team 2.

I feel like the Wrath would beat Maul before your theory could be tested tbh.

Toss up on who takes who. Maul's the weakest one here, but Krayt has a good shot at soloing if he plays his cards right.

Btw I'm assuming this isn't Outlander Wrath.

no bites today, unfortunately.

I am curious about Krayt vs Vitiate though. I figure that will be the deciding battle.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Btw I'm assuming this isn't Outlander Wrath. There is only one Outlander and his last name is Tython

Unless Vitiate immediately removes Maul(possible but less likely given it's novel Vitiate), Krayt should just go after the Wrath.
Originally posted by Sinious
There is only one Outlander and his last name is Tython
Nope.

Vitiate could absolutely mindfvck Maul. Wrath vs Krayt would be a good fight and Vitiate would own Maul in a single attack so that match-up would be advantageous for team 1 imo.

Krayt absolutely needs to lock down Vitiate and stop him from spamming his Force powers.

Originally posted by ILS
no bites today, unfortunately.

I am curious about Krayt vs Vitiate though. I figure that will be the deciding battle.

Can Krayt resist Vitiate's TP or sorcery?

Team 1.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Can Krayt resist Vitiate's TP or sorcery? Undoubtedly. But I'm gonna hold off on commenting on Krayt for a little while. You shall see why soon.

Maul is a massive weak link

Originally posted by ILS
Undoubtedly. But I'm gonna hold off on commenting on Krayt for a little while. You shall see why soon.

I'll be interested to see what you've got up your sleeve. For myself, Vitiate is a far superior sorcerer and telepath than Wyyrlok and the latter did floor a Reborn Krayt.

Vitiate vs Krayt would be awesome.

I'd let both of them more or less, around Plagueis level.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate could absolutely mindfvck Maul.
Yeah...no. If the HoT is too powerful in Chapter 3 for SWTOR Vitiate, there's absolutely no way he's dominating Maul as Novel Vitiate.

For a vastly weakened Vitiate. And the Hero had experienced Vitiate's TP before and had Scourge who could have taught him Revan's technique to resist Vitiates version of TP. Maul doesn't have any preparation for Vitiate and he's fighting him at full power.

ILS is being so disrespectful to both Krayt and Vitiate lately tbh mad cuck

Krayt and Maul win.

Originally posted by Nephthys
For a vastly weakened Vitiate. And the Hero had experienced Vitiate's TP before and had Scourge who could have taught him Revan's technique to resist Vitiates version of TP. Maul doesn't have any preparation for Vitiate and he's fighting him at full power.
And at no point after does Vitiate even attempt trying to take over their mind despite only gaining power, and fails to do so with even Lana, who never experienced it, so back to point one. The HoT is too powerful and needs no special technique to do it. Neither would Maul, who has comparable raw power, if not greater. Vitiate would attempt to mind rape Maul and Krayt, would fail spectacularly, and while he's distracted he and the Wrath get cut down. It's a gg.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'll be interested to see what you've got up your sleeve. For myself, Vitiate is a far superior sorcerer and telepath than Wyyrlok and the latter did floor a Reborn Krayt. Krayt wasn't even phased. The image of him falling apart was a fabrication of reality (e.g it has his armour falling apart and his body as an anorexic mess, which wasn't actually the case.) Hence "this is not your trap--it is mine." And that's with Wyyrlok, someone who can will powerful Sith like Andeddu to die via telepathy, knowing all of Krayt's greatest weaknesses intimately.

Personally, I'm quite impressed with Krayt's ability to "eat" and "infect" Cade's mind as a spirit, despite the fact a much less powerful Cade practically laughed off Muur's attempts to overpower him, despite putting on his amulet.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And at no point after does Vitiate even attempt trying to take over their mind despite only gaining power, and fails to do so with even Lana, who never experienced it, so back to point one. The HoT is too powerful and needs no special technique to do it. Neither would Maul, who has comparable raw power, if not greater. Vitiate would attempt to mind rape Maul and Krayt, would fail spectacularly, and while he's distracted he and the Wrath get cut down. It's a gg.

Only talking about Vitiate? Afterwards he's in a weakened state as a ghost and is a bit preoccupied controlling the entire population of Ziost simultaneously. We see what the Dread Masters are able to do when they're at full strength in spite of being feebs compared to Vitiate.

Even Revan used a technique to defend against Vitiate, saying that this time he knew how to counter Vitiates technique. The Hero has Scourge right there, of course Scourge would teach him how to defend against Vitiate's attacks. Unless you think the HoT is > novel Revan? In which case he'd still be completely out of Mauls league.

Maul gets mindraped and turns against Krayt. Krayt gets gangbanged.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Only talking about Vitiate? Afterwards he's in a weakened state as a ghost and is a bit preoccupied controlling the entire population of Ziost simultaneously. We see what the Dread Masters are able to do when they're at full strength in spite of being feebs compared to Vitiate.

As per Boyd saying the Outlander's showings on Ziost were came much closer to harming Vitiate than Revan in the novel, The Outlander, as KotFE which is weeks, if that, after Ziost is the most powerful opponent Vitiate has ever faced, I think it's pretty safe to conclude that the Vitiate on Ziost, at that point, is above the novel incarnation of himself. Given it's a 300+ year gap and that he's sort of feeding off death and destruction, this is not that hard to imagine.

Too bad this is not what the story tells us. Even then, Scourge says that only the Hero of Tython is powerful enough to resist Vitiate. It has nothing to do with the special technique Revan had, and more to do with the fact that after a certain threshold, he simply cannot mind rape you. And yeah, we're told the Outlander as of Ziost is above novel Revan. Given they're the only ones able to put up even a fight against SoR Revan's TK and their performance on Ziost, I don't find that hard to believe. But you keep equating Vitiate on Ziost to him during the end of the class story, which is hardly accurate.

He doesn't mindrape Maul, and Krayt can solo anyway.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
As per Boyd saying the Outlander's showings on Ziost were came much closer to harming Vitiate than Revan in the novel, The Outlander, as KotFE which is weeks, if that, after Ziost is the most powerful opponent Vitiate has ever faced, I think it's pretty safe to conclude that the Vitiate on Ziost, at that point, is above the novel incarnation of himself. Given it's a 300+ year gap and that he's sort of feeding off death and destruction, this is not that hard to imagine.

In that the Hero came close to thwarting the vulnerable Vitiates plan to resurrect himself whereas Revan stood no chance in direct combat, yes. And nah, I don't think its safe to make that conclusion at all.

But wait, you're arguing for Maul right? Seems a bit counter productive to be arguing that Ziost HoT is that strong in that case. If Ziost Hero is stronger than the guy who roflstomped Malak and Nyriss then I don't see how Maul compares. Plus don't forget that this thread is Ziost Wrath who does the same things the Hero does.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Too bad this is not what the story tells us. Even then, Scourge says that only the Hero of Tython is powerful enough to resist Vitiate. It has nothing to do with the special technique Revan had, and more to do with the fact that after a certain threshold, he simply cannot mind rape you. And yeah, we're told the Outlander as of Ziost is above novel Revan. Given they're the only ones able to put up even a fight against SoR Revan's TK and their performance on Ziost, I don't find that hard to believe. But you keep equating Vitiate on Ziost to him during the end of the class story, which is hardly accurate.

Too bad Revan already specified that you need a specific technique to resist him then. I'm not saying power had nothing to do with it, just that its highly probable that Revans technique also came into play. Maul doesn't have that, nor experience against Vitiate. But please, continue arguing the Hero is better than Revan, it gives me a chub every time.

You're the one who brought up Vitiate post-death in the first place bro.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He doesn't mindrape Maul, and Krayt can solo anyway.

Nah.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In that the Hero came close to thwarting the vulnerable Vitiates plan to resurrect himself whereas Revan stood no chance in direct combat, yes. And nah, I don't think its safe to make that conclusion at all.

What does this have to do with Ziost where the HoT didn't even come remotely close to stopping Vitiate?

Because Chapter 3 is when the HoT becomes too powerful to mindrape, and that's long before Ziost, SoR, or Oricon, the only times the ToR protags begin to surpass Maul.


Revan isn't omniscient, last I checked. If he were, he probably would have seen Vitiate's Lightning, Scourge's lightsaber, and his death coming. Revan was wrong, and this was proven several times over when Sith with absolutely no connection to Vitiate are able to resist him, not to mention KotFE where the HoT flatout says the reason Vitiate can't dominate him is his power.

Vitiate on Ziost is above the one in the novel is the entire point. Equating this to the one that the HoT fought, vastly below the one in the novel, is stupid.


Yep.

I like how Valkorion displays utter mental and spiritual domination over the Outlander, Arcann and Vaylin in KOTET's finale but that doesn't count. (Even though the spirit of Dramath is capable of contending with either of the latter in combat alongside the Outlander in a DS playthrough. This being the thousand year maddened spirit of the same Dramath who Tenebrae mindraped as a pre-teen before severing his Force connection and trapping his spirit in his own holocron to torture him for eternity. This Tenebrae being a fraction as powerful as he is in the novel.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Revan isn't omniscient, last I checked. If he were, he probably would have seen Vitiate's Lightning, Scourge's lightsaber, and his death coming. Revan was wrong, and this was proven several times over when Sith with absolutely no connection to Vitiate are able to resist him, not to mention KotFE where the HoT flatout says the reason Vitiate can't dominate him is his power.

The difference is, Revan had already felt Vitiate's technique, when he was dominated with Malak, just after the Mandalorian wars, meaning he has first hand experience of it. It would be a stretch to say he is wrong in this case, not to mention he taught Meetra, how to resist the Emperor's power. Which futher solidifies Revan's statement.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I like how Valkorion displays utter mental and spiritual domination over the Outlander, Arcann and Vaylin in KOTET's finale but that doesn't count. (Even though the spirit of Dramath is capable of contending with either of the latter in combat alongside the Outlander in a DS playthrough. This being the thousand year maddened spirit of the same Dramath who Tenebrae mindraped as a pre-teen before severing his Force connection and trapping his spirit in his own holocron to torture him for eternity. This Tenebrae being a fraction as powerful as he is in the novel.

Could be due to Valkorian possibly having Part of control(possession) of his Body. That Valkorian could release His true power. Either that or Valkorian was trolling the outlander the whole time.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I like how Valkorion displays utter mental and spiritual domination over the Outlander, Arcann and Vaylin in KOTET's finale but that doesn't count. (Even though the spirit of Dramath is capable of contending with either of the latter in combat alongside the Outlander in a DS playthrough. This being the thousand year maddened spirit of the same Dramath who Tenebrae mindraped as a pre-teen before severing his Force connection and trapping his spirit in his own holocron to torture him for eternity. This Tenebrae being a fraction as powerful as he is in the novel.
Maybe because he absorbs the power of Vaylin and/or Arcann? Like let's ignore context just to *****, even though he flat out says he needed Vaylin to do that. Second, let's also ignore that Dramath killed himself just trying to hurt Valkorion and has no impact on this battle whatsoever for the most part. He plainly states he needed Vaylin's power to overwhelm the Outlander's mind, this is why he had them kill her, and tried to, at least, get them to kill Arcann, so he could use their spirits to attack the Outlander while he overwhelms them from within. It's almost like you don't know what you're talking about, AP. Either that or you're super disingenuous. I believe both, and either is a reason for why you shouldn't speak.
Originally posted by Haschwalth
The difference is, Revan had already felt Vitiate's technique, when he was dominated with Malak, just after the Mandalorian wars, meaning he has first hand experience of it. It would be a stretch to say he is wrong in this case, not to mention he taught Meetra, how to resist the Emperor's power. Which futher solidifies Revan's statement.
He's clearly wrong when it's used by no one after him, and we're given other reasons for why he's no longer able to do that.

Indeed? I'm sure his absorption of Vaylin's essence had nothing to do with the fact that he died and required replenishment of his reserves lost upon his death. I'm sure Valkorion wouldn't have been able to replicate the same at full strength. My eyes just did a 360.

I like how you've also managed to ignore the rest of my argument.

Vitiate could almost certainly TP Maul, it's not really that debatable.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Indeed? I'm sure his absorption of Vaylin's essence had nothing to do with the fact that he died and required replenishment of his reserves lost upon his death.

Yeah, it actually probably has nothing to do with that since Vaylin, no matter how powerful is one person, and he couldn't even do it on Ziost. Is able to strengthen the Outlander, and then fight them, Vaylin, and Arcann all at the same time. Just a thought.

Then maybe he should have instead of just hollowing people out, which is kind of a requirement for Essence Transfer to work by all accounts including Leland Chee and Valkorion himself.

Given that is was based on nonsense that isn't supported by anything but your opinion, I really don't need to address it.

As soon as you show how Maul isn't comparable to the Hero of Tython despite being able to go toe-toe with Yoda tier characters like Mace, then sure. Otherwise, you have no leg to stand on.

And given that SoD is a continuation of TCW, you can't even dismiss with that drivel. Establish parity or it's very much debatable, if not certain, that Valkorion will be dominating no one.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And at no point after does Vitiate even attempt trying to take over their mind despite only gaining power, and fails to do so with even Lana, who never experienced it, so back to point one. The HoT is too powerful and needs no special technique to do it. Neither would Maul, who has comparable raw power, if not greater. Vitiate would attempt to mind rape Maul and Krayt, would fail spectacularly, and while he's distracted he and the Wrath get cut down. It's a gg.
Lana Beniko spent weeks in preparing her 'mental defenses' for her mission on Ziost in advance, and she still found it difficult to resist Vitiate's telepathic intrusions during the course of her mission per her own words. Conversely, Vitiate was utilizing his telepathic powers to bring the entire population of Ziost to his fold. Under these circumstances, even if a few slipped through his clutches - understandable. Beniko is an invalid analogue nonetheless.

The 'HOT is too powerful' mantra can be re-interpreted as 'HOT has honed his defenses by now' - context.

Raw power is not much of a factor in this matter; 'mental defenses' are - strongly apparent from disclosures of Revan and Lana.

Nothing implies that members of Team 2 are prepared for telepathy of Vitiate's caliber.

Didn't Vitiate use Ziost's dark side nexus to unleash that 'void-y' Force blast?