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Setting: Naboo plains

Starting distance: 30 feet


Who wins?

Arcann is so massively above Ulic that there's really no witty remark to make about it. It's like commenting on the color of the sky, or saying that one requires oxygen to live. A simple statement of fact.

Arcann, yeah.

Arcann.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Arcann is so massively above Ulic that there's really no witty remark to make about it. It's like commenting on the color of the sky, or saying that one requires oxygen to live. A simple statement of fact. Ulic wins.

In the game of who gets one shotted? I agree.

The earth is flat.

Arcann.

Arcann.

Arcann.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Arcann is so massively above Ulic that there's really no witty remark to make about it. It's like commenting on the color of the sky, or saying that one requires oxygen to live. A simple statement of fact. Are we serious?

The same Ulic that was on par with Exar Kun?

The same Exar Kun that can rival Revan to an extent?

The same Revan who would legit ragdoll Arcann and could take both him and The Outlander at once?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Are we serious?

The same Ulic that was on par with Exar Kun?

The same Exar Kun that can rival Revan to an extent?

The same Revan who would legit ragdoll Arcann and could take both him and The Outlander at once?

Exar can rival Revan but is far beneath SF Malak. That makes sense.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Are we serious?

The same Ulic that was on par with Exar Kun?

The same Exar Kun that can rival Revan to an extent?

The same Revan who would legit ragdoll Arcann and could take both him and The Outlander at once? The same Jman who says things only he believes?

The very same.

How the **** is Revan going to ragdoll Arcann, lel? And it'll be a cold day in hell when Revan can take on the Outlander and Arcann at once.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Exar can rival Revan but is far beneath SF Malak. That makes sense.

There is nothing concrete to suggest that Malak's personal power on the Star Forge is better than Exar. And any comparison of power hilariously favours the former. And if quotes are both omniscient and infallible Kun is still stronger than post nathama vitiate. meaning there's a strong possibility he's above Novel Revan.

Oh and !redemption Ulic would probably be a better match for Arcann.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Exar can rival Revan but is far beneath SF Malak. That makes sense. ...How is he below SF Malak?

According to what?

This forum changes opinions way too much.

Sometimes Exar is unstoppable powerhouse juggernaut that gives people like Vitiate and Plaguies trouble, other days he's below SF Malak.

Makes sense.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
How the **** is Revan going to ragdoll Arcann, lel? And it'll be a cold day in hell when Revan can take on the Outlander and Arcann at once. Because The Outlander isn't hopelessly above those same protagonists that Revan was ragdolling.

I know he's grown in power, but I don't see the jump from HoT to The Outlander being extremely high.

The Outlander does go from getting ragdolled by Arcann, to beating him, to losing to Vaylin, to beating a more powerful Arcann, to beating a more powerful Vaylin.

Theres clearly quite a jump.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
...How is he below SF Malak?

According to what?

This forum changes opinions way too much.

Sometimes Exar is unstoppable powerhouse juggernaut that gives people like Vitiate and Plaguies trouble, other days he's below SF Malak.

Makes sense.

Quote in a Wizards Of The Coast article reviewed by Chee.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
reviewed by Chee.

As if this were some smoking gun of sorts?

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Quote in a Wizards Of The Coast article reviewed by Chee. Okay, well then yeah, I guess he's above him.

Weird that he is though.

SF Malak > Kun > Nadd.

:/

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Because The Outlander isn't hopelessly above those same protagonists that Revan was ragdolling.

I know he's grown in power, but I don't see the jump from HoT to The Outlander being extremely high.
The Outlander is so far about the protags that it's ridiculous to even pretend they're remotely the same level they were before, lel.

Going from being ragdolled by Arcann to resisting the same attack that ragdolls a more powerful Arcann indeed is quite the jump. But of course, it's best to know what you're talking about before talking.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Quote in a Wizards Of The Coast article reviewed by Chee.

Which can be interpreted in numerous ways, sure.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Which can be interpreted in numerous ways, sure.

The author has clarified the correct interpretation on Twitter. Hint: It is not yours.

If we're using authorial intent then we have two lines of logic from writers that actually have authority over the characters in reference, that conflict with Cory's.

It's not simple authorial intent when the statement itself is in actual canon, lmao.


A clarification of a canonical statement isn't equal to off-the-record comments made years after the fact by a writer in email or some shit.

What the hell are you talking about? Both Veitch and Avellone were merely clarifying statements in their respective source material too.

Before I bother engage any further - what canonical statement is Tom clarifying again?

Because answering who would win between Palpatine and Exar doesn't count.

All of which is further enforced by I, Jedi.

Let's not forget that the relevance of authorial intent is subject to the times and the way other authors' intents (some of which will actually be put into canonical works) shapes the SW universe. The 90's sentiment about Kun being comparably powerful to Palpatine is as bygone as Avellone's short-lived efforts at hyping up the Ancient Sith. It's just not how the rest of the continuity wants it.

Exar Kun got the only other major Sith accolade besides Sheev in TCSWE. Not to mention that characters still sense his weakened spirit's power to a degree that they mention him in the same list as Vitiate's spirit and Revan's presence during SOR.

Nothing contradicts Kun being a top tier Sith, if that was such a glaring continuity issue then we would've seen such a problem arise upon the republishing of the material depicting him as such. Let alone newer sources, such as the Darth Plagueis novel, still holding up Kun as very much a benchmark of Sith power.

There's nothing bygone about it, as if canon worked that way in the first place.

That doesn't mean anything; TCSWE is hardly a go-to source for accolades anyway. It's more telling that TCSWE shoved Kun aside and made it open season for any Sith that chronologically succeeded him to surpass him in power, which is exactly what's happened since the 90's.

It pushed him aside for Sheev.

Kun's still very much a top dog amongst the Sith and there's been nothing contradictory to that. He's still, canonically, very much above the likes of Darth Nihilus, which doesn't do much for the argument that he's somehow irrelevant now.

Most of us don't seem to hold Nihilus in such high regard anymore. So that doesn't do much for Kun, and that scaling is still erroneous because it's incompatible with continuity outside of Avellone's dreamworld.

I don't really care, his abilities to destroy citadel station and rip fleets out of gravity wells is massively impressive.

It's not incompatible when he's still considered incredibly dangerous by SWTOR. Besides the fact we have Kreia literally saying it herself in the game, all we need Avellone to do from there is assert the accuracy of her claims beyond that point.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I don't really care, his abilities to destroy citadel station and rip fleets out of gravity wells is massively impressive.

It's not incompatible when he's still considered incredibly dangerous by SWTOR. Besides the fact we have Kreia literally saying it herself in the game, all we need Avellone to do from there is assert the accuracy of her claims beyond that point. He said her claims were accurate before, but thats done nothing for other Ancients such as Hord, Sadow, and Ragnos.

Originally posted by ILS
The same Jman who says things only he believes?

The very same.


Originally posted by Jmanghan
Are we serious?

The same Ulic that was on par with Exar Kun?

The same Exar Kun that can rival Revan to an extent?

The same Revan who would legit ragdoll Arcann and could take both him and The Outlander at once?
LEL

Knights of Zakuul are more competent than Jedi (and Sith) on average because they do not restrict themselves to any dogma when it comes to understanding of the ways of the Force.

Now; Force-users significantly vary in capabilities at personal capacity so the best of Jedi (and Sith) are/were better than scores of Knights of Zakuul. However, general impression is that even the strongest Jedi (and Sith) stood no chance against the top-guns of Zakuul in an encounter and had to flee or risk persecution when their paths crossed.

Top-guns of Zakuul include Heskal, Senya, Thexan, Arcann, Vaylin and Valkorion. There are others but not important story-wise. However, Valkorion pinned them against each other through his machinations.

Knights of Zakuul brought both the Republic and Sith Empire to their knees in a major war, with Thexan and Arcann at the forefront of the effort. However, Arcann murdered Thexan in a fit of rage and set his sights on the throne.

---

As for your outlandish claim in regards to Revan:-

But the immortal Emperor could not be vanquished so easily. He evaded death by infiltrating the mind of the Outlander, his most powerful opponent. (KoTET)

That is substantial hype, and not era-restricted. Even if you argue that Revan was relatively superior, so was Arcann.

Valkorion subjected both Revan (Reborn) and Arcann to his Force Lightning Storm on two separate occasions; difference is that Arcann did a better job at resisting such power than Revan (Reborn) - direct comparison.

But;

"You were an exemplary pawn, one I forged into a vessel of supreme power--worthy of preserving my spirit." (Valkorion - endgame)

Valkorion enhanced the powers of the Outlander to a significant degree during the course of KoTFE and KoTET. The Outlander stood no chance against Arcann (and Vaylin) in a fight originally but was able to defeat them later on .

My assessment:

Valkorion > Vaylin = The Outlander > Arcann = Revan