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So now that all is said an done, who is the weakest character that can legitimately defeat Barbatos without 'weakness exploitation'(ie. the use of divine metals or w/e)..?

Cannonball

-

Aquarian.

He did give Superman a lot of trouble.

And as we know, even Emperor Joker couldn't stop Superman.

So far we know the following

- He killed the original forger of worlds; who had the ability (from Element X) to create worlds/universe.
- Barbatos has the ability to destroy universe(s) if they are in his realm. We know this because that was essential his entire plan.
- Barbatos clearly did not have the juice to destroy the entire multiverse because his plan to destroy it all at once was using the overmonitor/antimonitor brain/power.
- He can't even brake through the chains that were forged by a weak Overmonitor

He is probably on the level of Nekron/White Lanterns. It seems DarkMetal borrowed a lot of Blackest Night. Definitely below Mxy, Cosmic Armor Superman, COIE AM.

he done nothing impressive on panel

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He is probably on the level of Nekron/White Lanterns. It seems DarkMetal borrowed a lot of Blackest Night. Definitely below Mxy, Cosmic Armor Superman, COIE AM.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
So far we know the following

- He killed the original forger of worlds; who had the ability (from Element X) to create worlds/universe.
- Barbatos has the ability to destroy universe(s) if they are in his realm. We know this because that was essential his entire plan.
- Barbatos clearly did not have the juice to destroy the entire multiverse because his plan to destroy it all at once was using the overmonitor/antimonitor brain/power.
- He can't even brake through the chains that were forged by a weak Overmonitor

He is probably on the level of Nekron/White Lanterns. It seems DarkMetal borrowed a lot of Blackest Night. Definitely below Mxy, Cosmic Armor Superman, COIE AM.

And below Dr. Manhattan, going by what Mxy said.

Yeah, the heroes did blast a hole through the Source Wall... Good thing they have Hal around to patch that shit up:

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38097719_Green_Lantern_-_Lost_Army_2015_006-017.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38097720_Green_Lantern_-_Lost_Army_2015_006-018.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38097721_Green_Lantern_-_Lost_Army_2015_006-019.jpg




But in all seriousness, I'm not really sure where to rank Barbatos in comparison to the Overmonitor. On one hand, the Dark Knights had captured Monitor and were beating the shit out of him... On the other hand, chains forged by Monitor were strong enough to permanently contain Barbatos. /shrug

Originally posted by cdtm
And below Dr. Manhattan, going by what Mxy said.
Personally, (Galan can correct me here), but Mxy seemed to indicate that he was also scared of Mr.Oz but we know how that turned out. Yet, Mxy was scared of some silly trap that can trap him>

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, the heroes did blast a hole through the Source Wall... Good thing they have Hal around to patch that shit up:

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38097719_Green_Lantern_-_Lost_Army_2015_006-017.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38097720_Green_Lantern_-_Lost_Army_2015_006-018.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38097721_Green_Lantern_-_Lost_Army_2015_006-019.jpg




But in all seriousness, I'm not really sure where to rank Barbatos in comparison to the Overmonitor. On one hand, the Dark Knights had captured Monitor and were beating the shit out of him... On the other hand, chains forged by Monitor were strong enough to permanently contain Barbatos. /shrug

They did mention he was recovering from the last crisis.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Personally, (Galan can correct me here), but Mxy seemed to indicate that he was also scared of Mr.Oz but we know how that turned out. Yet, Mxy was scared of some silly trap that can trap him> It is entirely possible(and moreover probable) that Manhattan will indeed turn out to be > Mxy, unequivocally.

That said, pretty much every character is hyped before their reveal -- especially when that character is essential to the plot of an upcoming event(like Manhattan obviously is.) Some characters ultimately live up to their hype, and some fall terribly flat... So I'll wait until Manny is fleshed-out a bit more before I comment on him definitively.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
They did mention he was recovering from the last crisis. Yeah, TBWL stated that Overmonitor was "just starting to reform after the last multiversal Crisis", so it's likely that he was nowhere near full power when they abducted him.

So, was that the Over-Monitor or the original Monitor from COIE?

I'm assuming so...

Originally posted by Zack M
So, was that the Over-Monitor or the original Monitor from COIE?
Somehow...


Originally, the original Monitor represented all the positive matter. Anti Monitor represented all the anti-matter.

Morrison then made OverMonitor in Final Crisis and said that it represented ALL of DCU.

Now, Dark Night Metal says that Overmonitor is the OG.


Doesn't really make sense. Here is hoping they give a bit more clarification.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Morrison then made OverMonitor in Final Crisis and said that it represented ALL of DCU That's the OverVOID(ie. The Primal Monitor.)

Much different than the OverMONITOR we saw in Metal.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's the OverVOID(ie. The Primal Monitor.)

Much different than the OverMONITOR we saw in Metal.


Well, it's not confusing if you put it that way

I assumed they were trying to say that Primal Monitor=COIE Monitor. I could have bet my money they even referred the overvoid as the Overmonitor.

I briefly ran through FC Superman Beyond1-2 just now and they actually never did.

Thanks for clarification.

Yeah, the Primal Monitor was typically referred to as "Monitor-Mind", "OverVOID", or just "Monitor".

We also know the "OverMONITOR" in Metal was intended to be the original Monitor(ala COIE), because he is evidently Anti-Monitor's equal/opposite, and embodied all the positive matter in the multiverse.

That just shows how powerful Anti Monitor is, isn't it?

Indeed.

Also, a weakened AM was used as a battery to power Nekrons armies. Tells you how powerful he is.

Larfleeze level?

pretty impossible to place imo. in his universe he seemed to be more powerful--maybe more powerful than anyone else COULD be in his realm. but he def seemed less than awesome in the regular universe. for some reason i just assumed the chains that bound him were 10th metal. to me, element x was the coolest talking point. it allowed the users to do anything that was "possible". the implications of that and the power implied is....staggering tbh.

the whole thing was such a sh!t show though it's hard to figure out anything with any real confidence.

Originally posted by leonidas
pretty impossible to place imo. in his universe he seemed to be more powerful--maybe more powerful than anyone else COULD be in his realm. but he def seemed less than awesome in the regular universe. for some reason i just assumed the chains that bound him were 10th metal. to me, element x was the coolest talking point. it allowed the users to do anything that was "possible". the implications of that and the power implied is....staggering tbh.

the whole thing was such a sh!t show though it's hard to figure out anything with any real confidence.

Element X sounded a lot like a White Lantern power

Both are the power of creation/sourcewall

Originally posted by leonidas
for some reason i just assumed the chains that bound him were 10th metal. That's what I thought at first too, but then I looked at the panel again and the chains didn't appear to have that trademark 'glow' the 10th metal had. /shrug

maybe we'll see in the future. anyway, barbatos seemed to have some metatextual abilities in the dark multiverse. he seemed capable of fashioning nightmares from stories that he told. not sure if, in the dark multiverse, anyone would be capable of breaking free of those stories. i mean he literally broke batman's will. i don't THINK that has ever been done before....? shrug

in the reg universe he didn't seem to be anything beyond the fairly typical big bad cosmic level villain similar to (insert cosmic baddie).

Any opinions on what the extent of Barbatos' scope of power is?

it's hard to say, really. i mean was he directly responsible for the burning of the library in the dreaming? that would mean multiversal scope (no surprise there) if we attribute that to him. we know in his aspect as the dragon, he had the power to destroy worlds (READ: universes) that were considered failures, and that the forger, whom he killed, had the power to create universes, some of which took shape in the positive mulitverse. he was mentioned as part of the trinity that also included the monitor and AM, so that's another indication. he is at least on par with them, but there was also a scene (with morrison's map) that indicated the DM was far and away larger than the positive matter multiverse.

https://imgur.com/a/gWqIg

that would seem to imply his power>monitor or AM, since they were exact equals. so maybe in the DM his power IS greater than even what they could reach? i could never figure out if this scene was intended to show intellectron fleeing from the carrier, or chasing the thule:

https://imgur.com/a/R7hSO

if one of the gentry is running from barbatos' power, that is a pretty impressive feat as well, but seemed pretty ambiguous. i dunno. we had loads of hype, but not a ton of substance it felt like. i'd wager that very few could walk into the DM and defeat him, but take him out of the DM and he seems....very much less.

I don't think the Gentry were conclusively shown to be chasing or fleeing from anything in that panel, tbh. /shrug

certainly could be seen that way. the only reason i bring it up is because joker bats comments that the multiverse was recoiling in terror at barbatos' scream:

https://imgur.com/a/Uqib1

def a weak connection, but an odd cameo if he was placed in there for essentially no reason. could have been there simply to show the scope of events in the series i guess.

there was also that scene where it was implied the AM's brain might destroy the DM, but we don't know the impact that would have had. kendra said that carter warned them NOT to do that, so it's possible firing the brain would only have somehow done even more damage. could carter have warned them not to do it because it would have helped the DM? again, loads of tantalizing little ideas played with, but so scattered and unformed as to be almost meaningless in the end.

In all honesty, I just think a few members of the Gentry were depicted in that panel, solely because Morrison helped write that specific issue.

Same reason the Ultima Thule and Stubbs also randomly happened to make appearances in the same issue... Same reason the concept of 'Anti-Music' entered the fray in that book as well. /shrug

you may well be right. if that's the case, seems pretty random but again, maybe just speaks to the scope of the story. not sure there is a good solid way to evaluate barbatos' level beyond say monitor/AM. /shrug

where you think he stands?

It's honestly hard for me to justify even putting him on par with AM, tbh. /shrug

Barbatos had a lot of hype but his feats were somewhat unremarkable. We also don't know the context of how he beat the forger, the only noteworthy being he beat. Could have been anything really. So i don't see any reason to rank him on par with AM either.