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ROTS Darth Sidious vs. ROTJ Darth Vader and ROTS Darth Tyranus

Legends Vader alone is 80% of Sheev so...

Canon is a closer fight, but I'd probably give Sidious the majority.

How do Lucas' comments not apply equally to Canon as they do to Legends?

Sidious.

Vader and Dooku

Sidious rekts.

The gap between Yoda, Sidious and Mace, Dooku, Vader is so everated. Mace is about equal to Vader and Dooku, and he could compete with Sidious. Dooku could compete with Yoda.
That deleted part of Sidious vs Maul and Opress duel is a nice example for me - when Sidious was forced to split his attention to maul and Opress, bros were able to catch him off-guard by TK. It would be much easier for Dooku and Vader, and - unlike bros, Dooku and Vader are quite able Force users.

Originally posted by McP
Vader and Dooku

Vader ragdolls

Sidious controls and annihilates; one whiff of Force Lightning is enough to down Vader

Originally posted by McP
The gap between Yoda, Sidious and Mace, Dooku, Vader is so everated. Mace is about equal to Vader and Dooku, and he could compete with Sidious. Dooku could compete with Yoda.
That deleted part of Sidious vs Maul and Opress duel is a nice example for me - when Sidious was forced to split his attention to maul and Opress, bros were able to catch him off-guard by TK. It would be much easier for Dooku and Vader, and - unlike bros, Dooku and Vader are quite able Force users. On the contrary, the fact that a much more one-sided fight ended up on the screen instead of those nonsensical scenes shows clear intention of huge disparity between Sheev and his underlings. If those deleted scenes indicate anything, it's that they looked at that fight from multiple angles and tried to execute it in different ways to see which works the best, and after careful consideration, they decided that Sheev should dominate them with ease.

Sidious wins, btw.

Dooku was able to contend with Yoda, who (arguably) stalemated Sidious. Therefore I don't believe Sidious, as of ROTS, would be able to deal with both Dooku and Vader simultaneously.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Dooku was able to contend with Yoda, who (arguably) stalemated Sidious. Therefore I don't believe Sidious, as of ROTS, would be able to deal with both Dooku and Vader simultaneously.

being able to compete with Yoda isn't nearly the same thing as actually being on par with him

team loses

Originally posted by relentless1
being able to compete with Yoda isn't nearly the same thing as actually being on par with him

Didn't say it was, and Dooku doesn't have to be on par with Yoda for them to beat Sidious. The fact that he can hold his own against a Yoda, a tier 9, makes me think he could do the same against Sidious, also a tier 9. Add in Vader, 80% of the Emperor at the time of ROTJ , and I think Sidious would be overwhelmed.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Didn't say it was, and Dooku doesn't have to be on par with Yoda for them to beat Sidious. The fact that he can hold his own against a Yoda, a tier 9, makes me think he could do the same against Sidious, also a tier 9. Add in Vader, 80% of the Emperor at the time of ROTJ , and I think Sidious would be overwhelmed.

he didn't really hold his own though, Yoda was toying with him and the only reason Tyranus wasn't killed is because he put Ani and Obi in harms way and escaped

Originally posted by relentless1
he didn't really hold his own though, Yoda was toying with him and the only reason Tyranus wasn't killed is because he put Ani and Obi in harms way and escaped Show me any text where it says Yoda was toying with Dooku

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/c1/eb/a4c1eba571c7139a0bdf2736b8dcadb6.gif

Originally posted by relentless1
he didn't really hold his own though, Yoda was toying with him and the only reason Tyranus wasn't killed is because he put Ani and Obi in harms way and escaped
Dooku fought him for a solid 2 minutes and it certainly didn't look like Yoda was fooling around.

"much to learn you still have"

said by Yoda after he casually absorbs his lightning; said in a border line cocky manner

the whole scene gives off the impression that Dooku was a step behind Yoda in all regards

I wouldn't say "toying" is the right word, but the AotC novelization makes it pretty clear that Yoda solidly outclassed Dooku when they fought.

And the battle looks even more one-sided in the comic book adaptation, for what it's worth. /shrug

Originally posted by relentless1
"much to learn you still have"

said by Yoda after he casually absorbs his lightning; said in a border line cocky manner

the whole scene gives off the impression that Dooku was a step behind Yoda in all regards The AotC transcript has Yoda about to plunge his saber into Dooku's skull if not for the latter's quick reflexes.

So no. Yoda was not holding back, toying, whatever you wanna call it.

Originally posted by Sinious
On the contrary, the fact that a much more one-sided fight ended up on the screen instead of those nonsensical scenes shows clear intention of huge disparity between Sheev and his underlings. If those deleted scenes indicate anything, it's that they looked at that fight from multiple angles and tried to execute it in different ways to see which works the best, and after careful consideration, they decided that Sheev should dominate them with ease.

Well, I like to treat those deleted scenes as a part of that duel. I see Yoda and Sidious duel the same way, and consider that deleted part of ROTS script (when Yoda sidarmed Sidious) as a canon as well.

Anyway, Sidious, even catched off-guard by bros, never was in a real danger. But Maul and Savage are really, really far from Dooku and Vader.

Vader and Tyrannus are likely to win this, but I guess Sidious could pull it off if he played his cards right.

Around Revenge of the Sith, Sidious, comparitively to Tyrannus, is the unquestionable superior, even if Tyrannus could defend himself for a little while.

Around Return of the Jedi, Vader has a similar relationship to a much more powerful Sidious. This gives me the impression that Vader, in RotJ, is much closer to the power of RotS Sidious.

Sidious cannot "out-force" these two, nor speedblitz them. He would have to use specific tactics in order to win. He could potentially try to fight Vader, the more worthy opponent, while keeping Dooku distracted somehow. Or more easily, keep Vader distracted with Force lightning while actually quickly engaging Dooku and trying to finish him off before Vader manages to fend off his attacks. Then dealing with a weakened Vader.

I'd give it to Vader and Tyrannus 7/10

Originally posted by McP
Well, I like to treat those deleted scenes as a part of that duel. I see Yoda and Sidious duel the same way, and consider that deleted part of ROTS script (when Yoda sidarmed Sidious) as a canon as well.

Anyway, Sidious, even catched off-guard by bros, never was in a real danger. But Maul and Savage are really, really far from Dooku and Vader.
I'm not aware of a released script for the deleted tcw scenes. Unless you can provide it, that comparison doesn't make any sense.

The point is to understand what is intended to be shown in these scenes. If you draw a drastically different conclusion from that fight cause of the deleted scenes, you're willfully ignoring the obvious gap of power between Sids and the brothers that is portrayed in the show and this stuff. This is inherently flawed logic, because either these scenes contradict the more canon scenes, or they simply add to what we already see in the episode. Contradiction would result with the elimination of the deleted scenes, and if it's the latter, you can't go from "Sidious toyed with them the whole time and stomped them with ease" to "Maul and Savage gave him trouble".

The scaling provided for Sidious within Legends puts him on another level compared to characters like Dooku and Vader, and Windu performed far better than Dooku or Vader would have in that confrontation. He truly surpassed them by ROTS.

Hasn't Palpatine been shown to pretty casually choke Dooku and zap Vader to shit (and the suicide lightning)?

The topic of Sidious vs Maul and Savage has also been covered by Silver here:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/silver2467/blog/darth-sidious-vs-darth-maul-and-savage-opress-what/125235/

Sidious Unlimited Powers them both!

Team can win, as long as they don't let him divide and conquer.

I have made once a vid with Anakin being Dooku's apprentice.

Sidious one-shots both a once