Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Simple question. Who has the best feat demonstrating their power?

Overpowering Yoda or overpowering the Outlander?
mmm

Sidious, obviously.

Blasting Mace Windu with torrents of Force lightning.

Sidious

Valkorion one-shot Marr with a lightning blast and Sidious needs multiple blasts to kill Windu. Seems illegal.

Killing a planet is just as good as feat Sheev is sporting, even at his peak.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Valkorion one-shot Marr with a lightning blast and Sidious needs multiple blasts to kill Windu. Seems illegal.

Also, pre-prime as Vitiate, besting Revan semi-easily.

One shotting entire Dark Councils

Insta-draining Ziost

Among others.

Didn't the last two take place on a dark side nexus?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Killing a planet is just as good as feat Sheev is sporting, even at his peak.

Your trolling skills are plainly appalling.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Valkorion one-shot Marr with a lightning blast and Sidious needs multiple blasts to kill Windu. Seems illegal.

For some reason it still doesn't seem to have occurred to you that Mace could just be stronger than Marr?

"But he only used one attack!" I guess Palpatine killing Gentis with one attack is as good as Valkorion killing Marr, then?

You may want to consider more variables than just the number of attacks.

Sidious could kill planets quickly and on command. So Sidious is my answer.

Palpatine's cosmic feats put him over Valkorion even as of TPM.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Killing a planet is just as good as feat Sheev is sporting, even at his peak.

Now mind posting the evidence where Failkorion accomplished that without a ritual?

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Didn't the last two take place on a dark side nexus?
So did the first.

Originally posted by Azronger
Now mind posting the evidence where Failkorion accomplished that without a ritual?

The burden is on you to prove it was, since --you know, no ritual was stated, or shown to be used.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Didn't the last two take place on a dark side nexus? All of them do, but the nexus on Dromund Kaas clearly does little to amp Vitiate, and it clearly didn't do shit to Revan either.

Also, if Ziost was a nexus, it's offset by the fact that Vitiate at the time was severely weakened.

Valk's already got the best feats in the mythos, ROTS Sheev is nothing.

Originally posted by darthbane77
All of them do, but the nexus on Dromund Kaas clearly does little to amp Vitiate, and it clearly didn't do shit to Revan either.

Also, if Ziost was a nexus, it's offset by the fact that Vitiate at the time was severely weakened.

Yavin's nexus didn't cut it, so he went to Ziost.

Bending a lightsaber blade with lightning impresses me almost as much as overpowering Yoda.

Originally posted by CuckedCurry
Bending a lightsaber blade with lightning impresses me almost as much as overpowering Yoda.
Thanks for reminding me how retardedly wanked this feat is.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Killing a planet is just as good as feat Sheev is sporting, even at his peak.
Lal, ROTS Sids shifted the balance of the galaxy on his own.

But why are we discussing only drain?

How about lightning?
Sids bends a lightsaber, Valk does, what exactly?

Tk? Sids sinks he lumiskya, Valk does, what exactly?

TP? Sids holds trillions of beings in check, his predecessor reached out to everyone in the galaxy. Valk did, what exactly?

Stop tryna compare Drake to Nas, lal. Sheev was ilimatic, and he's stillmatic.

Valk "so far gone" from Sheev's tier.

Ziost is far better than anything RotS Sidious has done.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ziost is far better than anything RotS Sidious has done.
What moves you up from lmao to lmfao?

Lmao's a more potent lmfao, not the other way around.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Lmao's a more potent lmfao, not the other way around.
I see, quality over quantity.

How can I earn the lmao, ant?

"It cannot be taught - it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects first-hand."

As i'd rather not have my butt leave my body, imma pass. Till next time ant.

Originally posted by SunRazer
For some reason it still doesn't seem to have occurred to you that Mace could just be stronger than Marr?

"But he only used one attack!" I guess Palpatine killing Gentis with one attack is as good as Valkorion killing Marr, then?

You may want to consider more variables than just the number of attacks.

Good to know that Windu>=Palpatine.

And you cannot even compare a non-sensitive to a Force sensitive. The latter has the capacity to resist Force powers.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Lal, ROTS Sids shifted the balance of the galaxy on his own.

But why are we discussing only drain?

How about lightning?
Sids bends a lightsaber, Valk does, what exactly?

Tk? Sids sinks he lumiskya, Valk does, what exactly?

TP? Sids holds trillions of beings in check, his predecessor reached out to everyone in the galaxy. Valk did, what exactly?

Stop tryna compare Drake to Nas, lal. Sheev was ilimatic, and he's stillmatic.

Valk "so far gone" from Sheev's tier.

You ever hear about Context? I thought about it. It's not a story the KMC would tell you. It's an Educational legend.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Palpatine's cosmic feats put him over Valkorion even as of TPM.

Oh, for god's sake. Those were two of the strongest Sith joining their powers in fighting the Force's will. Not to mention that Tenebrous had a hand in it too. Jesus Christ! Stop taking out of context this stuff. Not to mention how much disharmony was in the past too. All these things put together would benefit Plagueis and Palpatine of causing a "cosmic" imbalance in the Force.

Originally posted by MythLord
Overpowering Yoda or overpowering the Outlander, Vaylin & Arcann simultaneously?
mmm

Fixed.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ziost is far better than anything RotS Sidious has done.

Ziost is more impressive than Nihilus, tbh.

Nihilus consumed more worlds than 'Ziost'.

_



Palpatine doesn't scale above either.


When was the last time you checked your literature doctor?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ziost is far better than anything RotS Sidious has done.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Ziost is more impressive than Nihilus, tbh.

Isn't there a comic panel showing Nihilus wrecking a planet's surface with a black cloud or something?

Orbital bombardment.

Well Palpatine has a few superweapons that would put that to shame then mmm

In either case, ILS never said it wasn't political power.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Orbital bombardment.

Stop trolling around. Visas has confirmed there is no orbital bombardment involved.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Lal, ROTS Sids shifted the balance of the galaxy on his own.

But why are we discussing only drain?

How about lightning?
Sids bends a lightsaber, Valk does, what exactly?

Tk? Sids sinks he lumiskya, Valk does, what exactly?

TP? Sids holds trillions of beings in check, his predecessor reached out to everyone in the galaxy. Valk did, what exactly?

Stop tryna compare Drake to Nas, lal. Sheev was ilimatic, and he's stillmatic.

Valk "so far gone" from Sheev's tier.

1.Full context thanks.

2.Tbh, that's more of a feat for mace's physical amplification. Other than that it's below Nyriss tier. As it is proven time again, even by Sidious against Yoda, Lightsabers become redundant against lightning attacks, as they over whelm ones physical amplification to hold on to said lightsaber.

3.Sub Malak level.

4.Context, thanks.

We really need to separate quantitfable from the unquantifiable.
Which I find is used heavily in an argument.

Sure the unquantifiable is clear, to put them into the top echelons of force users.
But it's the quantifiable that can only truly gauge combat.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Fixed.
That's still not quite as good as overpowering Yoda, ngl.

plagueis reaching out to everyone in the galaxy is more impressive than ziost lal

Originally posted by Haschwalth

2.Tbh, that's more of a feat for mace's physical amplification. Other than that it's below Nyriss tier. As it is proven time again, even by Sidious against Yoda, Lightsabers become redundant against lightning attacks, as they over whelm ones physical amplification to hold on to said lightsaber.


-> Bending a lightsaber blade
-> Knocking someone's light saber out of their hand

I think u can work out the difference

For god's sake. If one puts enough power in their Force lightning and constantly assault an adversary with it, they can bend a lightsabre's blade. That's what Palpatine did. It wasn't just a normal lightning attack, it was Palpatine pouring all his strength into it. Call me when Valkorion shows his full power in games, because as far as I have seen, he does not have too.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
plagueis reaching out to everyone in the galaxy is more impressive than ziost lal

The first doesn't even require mental defenses nor is a display of Telepathy. It's a just a metaphor. It's similar to what Jedi do when they can contact other individuals across the galaxy. Not that it is the case here given it is a metaphor. Because I am pretty sure Plagueis wouldn't be stupid enough to send his thoughts and intentions across the Jedi's Foresight.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
-> Bending a lightsaber blade
-> Knocking someone's light saber out of their hand

I think u can work out the difference

you missed the point, whats keeping the lightsaber from being flung out of maces hand, his Physical amplification, this leads to a build up of strain on the lightsaber, hence it started to bend. to bend a lightsaber, you clearly have to overpower said weapon, we have seen force barriers/tutamini's match the power of a lightsaber, infact, with the case of Arcann/Valkorian it is evident that his force barrier>>arcanns lightsaber, as weaker force users have done the same with said lightsaber. except the difference, is it's not offensive, hence the lightsaber wouldn't bend unless one applied enough force on the lightsaber, which could only happen via augmentation strong enough, which generally is not the case. You seriously overrate the bending of a lightsaber, via the force. when you have unuthul bending back turbolazers, each far more powerful than a lightsaber, etc. think of it comparatively in terms of energy. You have people TKing ships, yet unable to barely move an opponent armed with the force.

He didn't actually bend the lightsaber, its just a metaphor.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He didn't actually bend the lightsaber, its just a metaphor.

Even if it is, it doesn't matter because the feat is not that great, ngl.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He didn't actually bend the lightsaber, its just a metaphor.
-> Explicitly described in the novel
-> Is shown in the movie just as the novel described it
-> Just a metaphor

1. Mace, with his Vaapad amp managed to hold Sidious's lightning at bay, and yes this is an indication of maces's Physical amp, being able to hold onto the lightsaber without it blowing away. Sidious has shown no such thing during his ROTS incarnation, to be greater than Vitiate's lightning.

2.what are you on? a lightsaber gives of a certain amount of energy per second, it's consistent. blocking it with a force shield is matching said energy from a lightsaber per second. to overwhelm a lightsaber you need to give off more energy per second than the lightsaber can put out, which is easy considering Valkorian is far beyond Foundry Revan, who could already sustain lightsaber blocking barriers. Your whole notion of it being impressive is silly, ngl.

3.Prove that claim.

4. Their has to be some parity, otherwise Tking or lightning would be pointless in battle, As you would always opt for the more potent attack. Say, you can tk a star destroyer, but when you use that same strength tk, on a more powerful force user, it will do shit. You proceed to use lightning, that you claim is not the same in terms of energy, it would then do nothing to said opponent, as it is not powerful enough.

Their is always a certain level of power(energy) that we have to scale in fiction to get a good idea of how potent their strength is. It's like saying a Grenade is useful in a fight between nuclear weapons.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
-> Explicitly described in the novel
-> Is shown in the movie just as the novel described it
-> Just a metaphor

'Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone.' is not explicit, something being bent back is just a rhetorical way of saying its being pushed back.

Nor is it shown happening in the movie. The literal opposite is, actually. Mace is constantly able to push his lightsaber forwards towards Sidious. I assume you mean when the prop wobbles in Jacksons hand a bit, in which case lol.

Besides which when Satele grabs Malgus' lightsaber the physical strain of him pushing it towards her actually cracks the blade so it really wouldn't be that impressive even if this myth were true (it isn't).

Plus, frankly, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize bending a lightsaber blade isn't as good as vaporizing all life on a planet, ffs.

Does Palpatine even have any force powers? I was under the assumption his lightning came from his immense political powers.

He just constantly rolls 6's to bluff.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Does Palpatine even have any force powers? I was under the assumption his lightning came from his immense political powers.

Jar Jar gives a small hint to it when he gives Sheev emergency power.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nor is it shown happening in the movie. The literal opposite is, actually. Mace is constantly able to push his lightsaber forwards towards Sidious. I assume you mean when the prop wobbles in Jacksons hand a bit, in which case lol.

The novel also has Mace pushing against Sidious, lal, the're no difference here. The movie has the lightsaber blade bend towards Mace as the novel describes. I'm not going to accept "prop wobble" as an explanation without proof.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
1. Mace, with his Vaapad amp managed to hold Sidious's lightning at bay, and yes this is an indication of maces's Physical amp, being able to hold onto the lightsaber without it blowing away. Sidious has shown no such thing during his ROTS incarnation, to be greater than Vitiate's lightning.

Sorry, but Mace's physically amplified strength does not exert more power than Sidious's lightning, this is common sense.

-> Matching something for a second <<<<<<< Overpowering something for a duration of time.

The feat you cited isn't in the same league as what Palpatine did.

You've done it for me:

This feats beat any feat of a similar kind Valk has to offer, hence saying Palp is inferior in this regard to Unuthul is pointless.


What? No, there can be parity between users, but that doens't remotely imply their's parity between what the attacks do. The greatest environmental lightning feat is setting a landscape ablaze. Even second tier tk showings have more impressive effects on the enviroment/ Lightning and tk serve different purposes. Lightning is an option to use against opponents you can't just tk as they're too close to you. Lightning is also a constant attack that can be used to constantly subdue while TK is a one off baring a significant power gap. The reason why i've compred sids and valk on each power separately is because cross power comparisons rarely work out so well. Eitherhow, as Valk has nothing in the league of Palp's tk showings, this tangent is rather pointless.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
The novel also has Mace pushing against Sidious, lal, the're no difference here.

I just checked it and it doesn't so that's a flat out lie.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
The movie has the lightsaber blade bend towards Mace as the novel describes.

No it doesn't. I just watched the scene in slow-mo on youtube and it wobbles back and forth as he moves it. So maybe try explaining how Sheevs lightning also bends it towards him as well if you will.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I'm not going to accept "prop wobble" as an explanation without proof.

Do you even know how they do the lightsaber effects in the movie? The prop is a long plastic tube that they CGI the effect over later. If the blade wobbles in the movie, the prop must also have wobbled in Jacksons hand since that's how the effect works. QED.

1. No, it shows the Mace can at least counter the strain of the force lightning via his lightsaber. Generally when a person is over whelmed physically, it gets blown away.

2.Facepalm, you don't really grasp what is occurring.(It's not a great feat FYI) And in no way is that close to ending a Dark council of 9 sith Lords within a flash.(Obviously referencing his lightning, as that is his primary offensive skill.

3.Razing a planets surface>>>>>Bending back a barrage of turbolasers. It was done via his own personal power. And just please don't go off on a tangent, saying stuff like, b-but, Valkorian hasn't shown this level of strength via Telekinesis, it's a stupid argument. You can nearly always scale the level of tk they have, via the feats they have done. Otherwise you would have planet razors barely being able to life ships.

4.what.... I was referring to parity in terms of energy between attacks(Lightning,Tk) e.g. you fire a canon at a concrete wall it goes right through(this is telekensis, over whelming opponents force Barrier.) you then proceed to through a basketball, at a rebuilt wall, it will bounce off, because it did not have enough force to break the wall(Barrier).(this is force lightning in your opinion.) I'm saying the lightning has to be as potent as the TK to break through the barrier. even though it's not shown to be as impressive, with affects on the environment.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
1. No, it shows the Mace can at least counter the strain of the force lightning via his lightsaber. Generally when a person is over whelmed physically, it gets blown away.

This has nothing to do with the blade bending lal. Sidious's lightning has more power than Mace's arms, hence your claim Mace's arms are what caused the blade to bend are nonsense.

You've reverting to back to unsupported claims to cover how weak your reasoning is. We're done here.

3.Razing a planets surface>>>>>Bending back a barrage of turbolasers. It was done via his own personal power. it's good Valk never did that with lightning lal.

Valk's inability to affect planets with tk or lighting renders this assertion of yours nonsense.

However, say we act like powers have the same effects, Sidious shifting the balance of the force himself or Plagy telepathically reaching out to everyone in the galaxy are far more impressive than razing a planet.

Not to mention that Sidious has showcased vastly more impressive showings in pretty much everything save for the one straw you're grasping to, force drain.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66


Plus, frankly, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize bending a lightsaber blade isn't as good as vaporizing all life on a planet, ffs.
Hasch decided to focus only on the lightning feat i mentioned while neglecting all the others shifting this to a lightning only discussion. Now he's cheating and trying to force tk and drain comparisons, but I never made any comparison outside of lightning comparisons after Hasch's shift.

1. My claim is that the lightsaber started to bend from the force applied from both Mace/Sidious's lightning pushing against each other. It's not hard to grasp.

2.We are because you don't grasp how energy works.

3.You brought up unuthuls Turbo Lazer feat which is completely irrelevant when claiming unu thul>Valkorian, that has nothing to do with lightning. So I brought up Valkorion's planet razing feat as a counter, in terms of power.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66


Plus, frankly, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize bending a lightsaber blade isn't as good as vaporizing all life on a planet, ffs.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66


Plus, frankly, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize bending a lightsaber blade isn't as good as vaporizing all life on a planet, ffs.

I haven't seen a good rebuttal to EoTPM Sidious's unbalancing feat, which strikes me as the most potent demonstration of power to that point in galactic history.

Lmao, ok sure thing give Sidious Plagueis' help and several months of intense meditation and he can beat Valk you win.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lmao, ok sure thing give Sidious Plagueis' help and several months of intense meditation and he can beat Valk you win.

No, I'm referring to the events described in the prologue to Plagueis (aka the chronological end).

Originally posted by The Ellimist
No, I'm referring to the events described in the prologue to Plagueis (aka the chronological end).

Plagueis's death?
I'll bring up Valkorion's.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
No, I'm referring to the events described in the prologue to Plagueis (aka the chronological end).

Plagueis' death sends ripples through the Force and somehow that's Palpatine's feat/power?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
No, I'm referring to the events described in the prologue to Plagueis (aka the chronological end).

Then I don't know what you mean.

She talks when those voices cheered Palpatine's name(it was in his head)

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
She talks when those voices cheered Palpatine's name(it was in his head)

Palpatine essentientally powered up from Plagueis's death. The affects however I was sure was due to Plagueis, not Sidious.

He powered up shit. He was just being his normal narcissistic self.

we all know the answer

The answer being Sidious

Sidious. Valk in my opinion is an odd case for power levels. On one hand he can be underrated but on the other hand some people severely overrate him.

Originally posted by Azronger
The answer being Sidious

rots sidious has no power feats to match ziost lmao

Ziost is a better alter feat, by far, than anything Sheev has done.

Willing yourself back from the void of the Force? Like SoR Revan and the Dread Masters haven't done that before.

Traversing the galaxy as a spirit? That's sub-Ziost Vitiate.

Lightning feats? Spirit Tenebrae busts a fleet of freighters and cruisers with the excess of the attack he had focused on Arcann. Not to mention scaling vastly beyond one-shotting a Dark Council thrice.

Busting an army of Knights of Zakuul, as a spirit, after expending energy to essentially warp reality is a death field feat I'd like to see Sheev's answer for.

Shrouding the vision of the Jedi Order? The Sith were doing that casually throughout the GGW.

Causing an imbalance in the Force? I'd wager that maintaining voids in the Force by merely existing is better. Especially given that Revan's continued existence caused the Force itself to go gradually fvcking mental, sending visions to everyone and their grandma, as his own power grew.

Cosmic feats? I haven't seen anything that matches threatening the mental faculties of every Force-user, living or spiritual, in the galaxy. As a side-effect of having his spirit destroyed. It's also telling that Lana Beniko and others have stated that after Tenebrae died was the first time she had ever not felt his presence in the Force.

Oh and there's the fact that as of assimilating the power of Nathema into his own body, he became the most potent dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see. Yet Tenebrae's power grew many times over in the next 1300 years.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Willing yourself back from the void of the Force? Like SoR Revan and the Dread Masters haven't done that before.

Source? Where did they come back from the Void?



Based on what?



Source? Since when did that attack bust "a fleet of freighters and cruisers"? From what I recall it just made some ships' internals short circuit, but I didn't see any fleet of cruisers getting busted.



Sidious scales above Nihilus, but I agree that this is one of Vitiate's more impressive feats.



Source for Vitiate alone shrouding the vision of the Jedi? Or are you trying to equate that to millions of Sith + Vitiate together kind of doing a lesser version of that?



One is galactic/universal, and the other extends over the surface of a planet. One spawned the Chosen One, the other didn't. There's no comparison at all.



Giving people visions doesn't compare to spawning the Chosen One and hindering the precognitive abilities of the entire Jedi Order lol.



Source?



Source?

You left out midichlorian manipulation, assuming we're only talking about RotS Sidious. If one wishes to talk about DE Sidious, they'd have to explain force storms, "chaotic nexus", the Lusankya, and Byss.

Originally posted by Deronn Solo
Killing a planet is just as good as feat Sheev is sporting, even at his peak.
-> didn't kill a planet
-> not even plagueis tier:

also, rots sidious literally unbalnced the galaxy with his mere presence so...

So checkmate gg libtards?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Source? Where did they come back from the Void?

Revan literally says he'd become one with the Force, but half of his spirit split off and resurrected what was literally his dead body. Did you even watch SoR? Dread Master Styrak died, but came back to life on Oricon during the Battle of the Dread Palace. I'm assuming you didn't see the Dread War either.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Based on what?

Based on the fact that he travels between his Voss host and his real body, traverses from Dromund Kaas to Yavin IV, travels back and forth between Valkorion and his original body. He has a lot of frequent fly air miles.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Source? Since when did that attack bust "a fleet of freighters and cruisers"? From what I recall it just made some ships' internals short circuit, but I didn't see any fleet of cruisers getting busted.

Based on what you recall or based on your bias? The fleet has shields, you do realise? They were trying to run the blockade of the Eternal Fleet when they got caught by the excess of Tenebrae's attack on Arcann.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Sidious scales above Nihilus, but I agree that this is one of Vitiate's more impressive feats.

Scales above a savant ability? Master Elli, you disappoint me. Azronger holds you in such high esteem.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Source for Vitiate alone shrouding the vision of the Jedi? Or are you trying to equate that to millions of Sith + Vitiate together kind of doing a lesser version of that?

The First Son; who is a fly on the wall next to his Dad, could cloud hundreds of his extremely powerful siblings from the entire Jedi Order whilst sitting next to the Jedi High Council. Amongst the weakest of said siblings could ragdoll Act II Barsen'thor. When the First Son dies, it is stated that the revealed presence of those Children in the Force caused the dark side to 'scream' such was their collective prowess. Collective prowess which is literally just Tenebrae touching them with his power.

So even if you don't want to take the Sith shrouding the Force from the Jedi at this time as a feat for Tenebrae(who has consistently one-shotted Dark Councils of said Sith), it's a tier of power that we don't have any reason to think Tenebrae isn't beyond given what just one of his children could do with a fraction of his power.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
One is galactic/universal, and the other extends over the surface of a planet. One spawned the Chosen One, the other didn't. There's no comparison at all.

They both overpower the will of the Force. One causes manipulation of its balance, one causes it to cease to exist at all. Apples and oranges I guess?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Giving people visions doesn't compare to spawning the Chosen One and hindering the precognitive abilities of the entire Jedi Order lol.

Your idea doesn't even apply in this context. Revan came back from the dead and got more and more powerful. He was stated to exist nowhere and everywhere as a cyst in the fabric of the cosmic Force that kept getting stronger. Worse he came back with a suicidal plan to resurrect Tenebrae who would've consumed the galaxy if successful. It didn't even have the time to bring a child to term, nevermind have the child grow up. Instead it told everyone with the right power to wake the fvck up and stop Revan.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Source?

As if you haven't seen these before:

https://i.imgur.com/iETG4rD.png



Originally posted by The Ellimist
Source?



By the way, 'largest' in this context doesn't refer to size. It's referring to its capacity/potency.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
You left out midichlorian manipulation.

Which is irrelevant when Sheev never uses it in a way more impressive than anything the Dread Masters couldn't do.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Assuming we're only talking about RotS Sidious.

That'd be the thread's intent, yes.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
If one wishes to talk about DE Sidious, they'd have to explain force storms.

Force Storms which aren't nearly as definitive a showing as you'd like to suggest? Here's some irony for you:

http://i40.tinypic.com/s46fib.png

The very basis for Sidious' magnus opum, his greatest power, was none other than Darth Malgus. Malgus being a dead trainee on Korriban next to Tenebrae in terms of mastery over the dark side and its aspects.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
"chaotic nexus"

You really don't want to be bringing up any nexus right now.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lusankya

Honestly, that's the only feat I see that you could argue to be definitively beyond Tenebrae. Then again you've got Nihilus, who's Malachor V fleet TK is something that Tenebrae scales above too.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Byss.

Dread Master tier.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Revan literally says he'd become one with the Force, but half of his spirit split off and resurrected what was literally his dead body.

What makes you think that half ever went to the Void? I'm pretty sure we see it splitting off before Revan explodes.



Show me the evidence that Styrak came back from the Void on his own power, please.



Show me an example of Vitiate's spirit traveling across space without a nexus or other anchor.



Show me evidence that his lightning was busting shielded cruisers and frigates.



I want to see the source you're using here, to make sure you're thinking of what I think you're thinking of.

It's also funny that you'd bring up savant abilities but then try to scale Vitiate above the Dread Masters.



That's not the same thing at all. One is shielding a specific group of people from the view of the Jedi that happen to be present; the other is clouding the entire Jedi Order from long-term precognition in general 24/7, even when they actively try to pierce the shroud. The two feats are on incomprehensibly different scales.



Again, one is a galactic/universal feat, the other spans the surface of a planet. One the Force felt was clearly a far greater threat, given that it spawned the Chosen One. There's no comparison whatsoever.



How does that support your point? The Force freaked out because of Revan's specific actions, not because he meditated on an island for a long time. That doesn't compare to the nature of Sidious's weight in the Force at all.



Even if we assume that every Force sensitive felt this (though that would make you wonder why there wasn't a mass genocide of Jedi, and why the Outlander and co. didn't nearly black out too) and it wasn't specific to those either particularly in tune with the Force or particularly in tune with Vitiate or the mission, that doesn't seem to compare to Sidious's temporary death literally bringing balance to the cosmic Force on a universal scale and fulfilling the Chosen One prophecy.

Heck, even Tenebrous's master has a greater cosmic feat than anything you've mentioned, given that he pierced the light side bubble formed by the entire 10,000 strong Jedi Order by himself, and Tenebrous casually surpassed him as a padawan.



Isn't that an in-universe source?



The more general point is that he and Plagueis were screwing with the source code of the Force to the point where the Force itself was freaking out and saw them as universal threats. The fact that the Force had to actively flee and retaliate against Plagueis's attempted galaxy-wide TP and attempted conception of Anakin suggests that he could have succeeded if it hadn't intervened. This is to say nothing of the observation that Plagueis was able to regenerate from Sidious's full powered Force lightning with no barrier or defenses aside from MM.



Well you brought up escaping from the Void so shrug.



LMFAO - so I guess Darth Anddedu is greater than Palpatine too, because he learned essence transfer from him? In the Plagueis novel, Plagueis mused that Bane's powers were legendary. There's no reason why Sith can't learn from past Sith that were weaker than them. And this obviously isn't the key source of Sidious's force storms, given that Malgus very clearly can't do them.

Anyway, that's an incredibly vague and evasive response to the observed abilities of force storms, aka swallowing entire fleets of capital ships along with a super star destroyer, teleporting fleets across galactic distances, and tearing the surfaces off of worlds.



Do you have an actual reply?



Where have the Dread Masters done that?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
also, rots sidious literally unbalnced the galaxy with his mere presence so...

When did he do that? Even then he benefited from their ritual(with Plagueis)

Originally posted by The Ellimist
What makes you think that half ever went to the Void? I'm pretty sure we see it splitting off before Revan explodes.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/a0FuPjiLZev4c/giphy.gif



Originally posted by The Ellimist
Show me the evidence that Styrak came back from the Void on his own power, please.

Kek??? The power of the Dread Masters is collective, not singular.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Show me an example of Vitiate's spirit traveling across space without a nexus or other anchor.

That's literally what he did when he died on Voss....

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Show me evidence that his lightning was busting shielded cruisers and frigates.

Prove to me that a fleet of ships attempting to escape a fleet wouldn't be using their shields, with three ships right on top of them.



Not to mention several of the ships visibly burst into flames and nosedive in the cutscene.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I want to see the source you're using here, to make sure you're thinking of what I think you're thinking of.

Link: https://youtu.be/D34rwrhoaDs

Theron makes it clear that there's an entire army prior to this.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's also funny that you'd bring up savant abilities but then try to scale Vitiate above the Dread Masters.

The Dread Masters' union of power comes from their perfection of the Phobis Devices. Yet despite this power, Tenebrae was fully in control of them from the beginning.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That's not the same thing at all. One is shielding a specific group of people from the view of the Jedi that happen to be present; the other is clouding the entire Jedi Order from long-term precognition in general 24/7, even when they actively try to pierce the shroud. The two feats are on incomprehensibly different scales.

Concealing insane amounts of collective dark side power from across the galaxy through sheer force of will, whilst Syo Bakarn and the Order had literally no idea that the First Son was doing this is an incredibly unprecedented feat. We're talking about hundreds of Sith with, at minimum, the power to ragdoll Act II Barsen'thor, who in a deathly state defeated the ancient Sith Lord Vivicar who was draining hundreds of Jedi Masters from across the galaxy.

Though, Tenebrae scales above that shrouding as I'll show you below.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Again, one is a galactic/universal feat, the other spans the surface of a planet. One the Force felt was clearly a far greater threat, given that it spawned the Chosen One. There's no comparison whatsoever.

One is only a cosmic feat, one is a living Force feat. Stop trying to call it galactic when the cosmic Force doesn't operate like the living Force. That's not what the imbalance was affecting. What Tenebrae did, was literally absorb all of its existence, warping the reality of the planet itself to rid it of the color spectrum and time.

The Exile states very clearly that Nathema was far worse by an order of magnitude than a 'colossal geyser of dark side energy' spewing out dark side energy across the galaxy. A dark side imbalance that doesn't even come in first place as far as dark side corruption goes doesn't compare. All hail Lord Krayt.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
How does that support your point? The Force freaked out because of Revan's specific actions, not because he meditated on an island for a long time. That doesn't compare to the nature of Sidious's weight in the Force at all.

Revan's presence was a cyst in the fabric of the cosmic Force that existed everywhere and nowhere, causing the Force to 'roil and convulse' in reaction to his existence. Shrouding the vision of the Jedi order, was literally what Malak was doing:



SoR Revan is massively more powerful than Darth Malak. His effects on the Force is naturally far graver than merely shrouding the vision of the Jedi Order.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Even if we assume that every Force sensitive felt this (though that would make you wonder why there wasn't a mass genocide of Jedi, and why the Outlander and co. didn't nearly black out too) and it wasn't specific to those either particularly in tune with the Force or particularly in tune with Vitiate or the mission, that doesn't seem to compare to Sidious's temporary death literally bringing balance to the cosmic Force on a universal scale and fulfilling the Chosen One prophecy.

The mental effects don't need to be lethal to be incredibly impressive. Oh and the Outlander and co. did feel its effects as Lana states she doesn't feel his presence in the Force anymore, for the first time ever. Tenebrae's death literally causes the instantaneous implosion of life on planets and sends shock waves across the cosmic Force.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Heck, even Tenebrous's master has a greater cosmic feat than anything you've mentioned, given that he pierced the light side bubble formed by the entire 10,000 strong Jedi Order by himself, and Tenebrous casually surpassed him as a padawan.

Malak shrouded the vision of the Jedi Order with the dark side. He's small change compared to Revan, and certainly even novel!Tenebrae.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Isn't that an in-universe source?

It was written in an in-universe style. However, its accuracy is confirmed on the front cover. It's essentially Avellone spewing facts via Kreia exposition all over again.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
The more general point is that he and Plagueis were screwing with the source code of the Force to the point where the Force itself was freaking out and saw them as universal threats. The fact that the Force had to actively flee and retaliate against Plagueis's attempted galaxy-wide TP and attempted conception of Anakin suggests that he could have succeeded if it hadn't intervened. This is to say nothing of the observation that Plagueis was able to regenerate from Sidious's full powered Force lightning with no barrier or defenses aside from MM.

And if the Hero of Tython hadn't fulfilled his own prophecy and prevented the Emperor's Ritual Crisis, then Tenebrae absorbs the galaxy and becomes a galaxy-consuming God until everything is gone and he waits reaper-style for the universe to be reborn and the cycle repeats itself.

The Ritual entailed just one mass death event on any one of the planets the Hero goes to. He needs this because he's pouring all of his own energy into fueling the ritual itself, with that bonus death to feed on, he could unleash another shockwave Ziost-style across the galaxy, even absorbing the power of the stars. He could even do this with such accuracy that he could avoid Zakuul. He is also weakened from the Sel-Makor TP battle/death on Voss at this time. He's also still suppressing Vaylin simultaneously.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
LMFAO - so I guess Darth Anddedu is greater than Palpatine too, because he learned essence transfer from him? In the Plagueis novel, Plagueis mused that Bane's powers were legendary. There's no reason why Sith can't learn from past Sith that were weaker than them. And this obviously isn't the key source of Sidious's force storms, given that Malgus very clearly can't do them.

Anyway, that's an incredibly vague and evasive response to the observed abilities of force storms, aka swallowing entire fleets of capital ships along with a super star destroyer, teleporting fleets across galactic distances, and tearing the surfaces off of worlds.

Way to miss the point.

Sidious took inspiration from Malgus, stating Malgus shows the true key to power is sheer will fueled by hatred. Malgus, who on the same page is shown utilising Force Maelstrom. Something Sheev states is the gateway power to Force Storm. Daniel Wallace confirms this is exactly what he intended. The destructive potential of the Force Storm is due to the technique itself, not the power of the user.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Do you have an actual reply?

Yeah, Tenebrae is an even stronger one than Sheev is. He's also warping reality as a chaotic nexus.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Where have the Dread Masters done that?

I'm underselling them because Fulminiss would've done it on a far grander scale with his seeds, which he created of his own power. Not just the planets but the populations; not merely driving them irreversibly insane but actually corrupting the very anatomies of the people on an individual basis. The Dread Masters simply scale way beyond him.

the dread masters' pure feats are better than rots sidious's tbh

That's certainly arguable, their ability to project their power across the galaxy and fvck around with reactors; whilst simultaneously resurrecting the dead, is pretty insane.

-

-

-

I merely skimmed through that post and died from so much bullshit. I'll reply tomorrow, I'm on my phone atm. Let us just say that your time here will be short and painful with me and others.

Plot twist: Jaggarath is in fact a troll, this has all been a long con. The real Ant is a sock account.