Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Which elites in Marvel (Herald level or below) have greater combat speed than Spiderman? Please explain your reasoning or you can just post scans proving your claim.

Go!!!

2nd question - you can add trans tier for the second round. So it would be trans tier or below.

Please stay within the Herald tier. Nothing below.

Elites?

Did you mean heralds?

How the **** can you not know the KMC terminology yet?

Carver9 - Huge Marvel fan. Very indepth knowledge about the company and all the dudes within. You could even say he is Marvel.
Hates Superman with a passion. Superman has superspeed.

So I don't get why such a high up in Marvel would make a thread like this and expect it to turn out well. You must have some Hulk feat in mind because this thread is bound to piss off everyone except Superman fans.

It'd be like Zackems making spite threads against DC.

Literally no awareness

Originally posted by krisblaze
Elites?

Did you mean heralds?

How the **** can you not know the KMC terminology yet?

Read the OP please. I know its lengthy but the answer to your question is up there.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Carver9 - Huge Marvel fan. Very indepth knowledge about the company and all the dudes within. You could even say he is Marvel.
Hates Superman with a passion. Superman has superspeed.

So I don't get why such a high up in Marvel would make a thread like this and expect it to turn out well. You must have some Hulk feat in mind because this thread is bound to piss off everyone except Superman fans.

It'd be like Zackems making spite threads against DC.

Literally no awareness

Let's sit down together and eat this popcorn I just microwaved as the heat begins to rise.



Yep, I do have some Hulk fts.

Lol. But if you want a real answer...

The first caveat is to say that anyone with decades of comics over 1000's of issues is going to have feats all over the place. Despite the comparative stability of Spidey's speed feats, he's no exception to this rule. Everything below is based on, if not quite "average" (which is an impossible metric to gauge here) at least consistent showings when he's fully applying himself.

Conflating the problem with Pete is spider-sense, which is rebranded precognition. It's impossible to separate his precog from his raw combat speed, because the two compliment each other, so it must be included for anything resembling sanity.

Anyway, Pete has been reliably shown to be half a step below Classic Quicksilver (non-lightspeed)...able to tag him, but not easily. He's got a few such showings against similar speedsters, who can go Mach-something and have combat speed to match. And we can extrapolate that out to being above even most bullet-timers who have 1-2 feats in the same vicinity but nowhere near the consensus of feats Pete has (cue nay-sayers posting his fights against Cap, which relates back to my initial caveat)

Once you start talking about heralds, it gets very circular in a hurry due to wildly varying portrayals. The Firelord and Masterson blitzes - for example - become impossible to reconcile with the entire history of cosmic battles and feats. So the only truthful answer is "it depends" or "it's what the writer wants/needs." So, ya know, comics. I could see Spidey being believably portrayed as dancing around any number of heralds, or laughed off the page even without them using blitz attacks that use flight speed.

And yes, once the nigh-inevitable Hulk scan gets posted, it'll be ridiculous and likely as good or better than anything Pete's done, but it still won't change the fact that any time they've fought (and, likely, any time they will fight in the future), Hulk will have to resort to thunderclaps or something to tag Pete.

None. Their are no Marvel heralds (Surfer, All Three Thors, Gladiator, Hulk, All iterations of Hyperion, Senty, etc) who have combat speed feats that are equal to or greater than Spiderman. The only one who comes remotely close is Monica.

Originally posted by Digi
Lol. But if you want a real answer...

The first caveat is to say that anyone with decades of comics over 1000's of issues is going to have feats all over the place. Despite the comparative stability of Spidey's speed feats, he's no exception to this rule. Everything below is based on, if not quite "average" (which is an impossible metric to gauge here) at least consistent showings when he's fully applying himself.

Conflating the problem with Pete is spider-sense, which is rebranded precognition. It's impossible to separate his precog from his raw combat speed, because the two compliment each other, so it must be included for anything resembling sanity.

Anyway, Pete has been reliably shown to be half a step below Classic Quicksilver (non-lightspeed)...able to tag him, but not easily. He's got a few such showings against similar speedsters, who can go Mach-something and have combat speed to match. And we can extrapolate that out to being above even most bullet-timers who have 1-2 feats in the same vicinity but nowhere near the consensus of feats Pete has (cue nay-sayers posting his fights against Cap, which relates back to my initial caveat)

Once you start talking about heralds, it gets very circular in a hurry due to wildly varying portrayals. The Firelord and Masterson blitzes - for example - become impossible to reconcile with the entire history of cosmic battles and feats. So the only truthful answer is "it depends" or "it's what the writer wants/needs." So, ya know, comics. I could see Spidey being believably portrayed as dancing around any number of heralds, or laughed off the page even without them using blitz attacks that use flight speed.

And yes, once the nigh-inevitable Hulk scan gets posted, it'll be ridiculous and likely as good or better than anything Pete's done, but it still won't change the fact that any time they've fought (and, likely, any time they will fight in the future), Hulk will have to resort to thunderclaps or something to tag Pete.

This.

Basically, it is all down to the writer. BUT, what I will say is, thank you Carver. Because inevitably, I will be able to use these scans that you post in a circular fashion to inevitably prove my point.

Such is the way of comics.

Originally posted by carver9
Let's sit down together and eat this popcorn I just microwaved as the heat begins to rise.



Yep, I do have some Hulk fts. I'll be the popcorn dick this time.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This.

Basically, it is all down to the writer. BUT, what I will say is, thank you Carver. Because inevitably, I will be able to use these scans that you post in a circular fashion to inevitably prove my point.

Such is the way of comics.

Originally posted by Digi
Lol. But if you want a real answer...

The first caveat is to say that anyone with decades of comics over 1000's of issues is going to have feats all over the place. Despite the comparative stability of Spidey's speed feats, he's no exception to this rule. Everything below is based on, if not quite "average" (which is an impossible metric to gauge here) at least consistent showings when he's fully applying himself.

Conflating the problem with Pete is spider-sense, which is rebranded precognition. It's impossible to separate his precog from his raw combat speed, because the two compliment each other, so it must be included for anything resembling sanity.

Anyway, Pete has been reliably shown to be half a step below Classic Quicksilver (non-lightspeed)...able to tag him, but not easily. He's got a few such showings against similar speedsters, who can go Mach-something and have combat speed to match. And we can extrapolate that out to being above even most bullet-timers who have 1-2 feats in the same vicinity but nowhere near the consensus of feats Pete has (cue nay-sayers posting his fights against Cap, which relates back to my initial caveat)

Once you start talking about heralds, it gets very circular in a hurry due to wildly varying portrayals. The Firelord and Masterson blitzes - for example - become impossible to reconcile with the entire history of cosmic battles and feats. So the only truthful answer is "it depends" or "it's what the writer wants/needs." So, ya know, comics. I could see Spidey being believably portrayed as dancing around any number of heralds, or laughed off the page even without them using blitz attacks that use flight speed.

And yes, once the nigh-inevitable Hulk scan gets posted, it'll be ridiculous and likely as good or better than anything Pete's done, but it still won't change the fact that any time they've fought (and, likely, any time they will fight in the future), Hulk will have to resort to thunderclaps or something to tag Pete.


Thor and Silver Surfer have some level of lower end superhuman speed, but have NEVER been true speedsters barring outlier showings for their entire existence. Classic Quicksilver and Spider-Man are WELL above them in reflex/reaction speed. No, FTL lfight across astronomical distances via external devices(board, Mjolnir, or a GL ring for that matter) does NOPT equate to true high end combat superspeed reflexes.

Originally posted by panthergod
Thor and Silver Surfer have some level of lower end superhuman speed, but have NEVER been true speedsters barring outlier showings for their entire existence. Classic Quicksilver and Spider-Man are WELL above them in reflex/reaction speed. No, FTL lfight across astronomical distances via external devices(board, Mjolnir, or a GL ring for that matter) does NOPT equate to true high end combat superspeed reflexes.

Normally I'd agree, and I do agree over the majority of their showings. But most of those you mentioned - as well as several others who aren't shown to be any faster in combat than them - have such feats. It's why things get tricky when you jump tiers like this.

You have to look outside showings against Spider-Man to make these types of characters faster than Peter. One of the big faces of Marvel needs to be relevant if he were ever to come upon these characters. He's not better in anyway and to top it all off he can't even dodge them? Here's a fight against Thor, enjoy.

Spider-Man has to be helpful in these sorts of encounters. They can't just have Spider-Man getting his life ruined everytime. That's not to say I'm discounting what has transpired, I'm just saying why it has. You'd be hard pressed to find a character outside of Spider-Man's rogues or a character who's only power is speed being portrayed as faster than Spideydude. Even harder to have him be consistently faster.

It's just the name of the game. Spider-Man makes it a fight in a comic and then the writers apologize by having him get tagged and the fight ends. Sometimes they don't... and sometimes Spider-Man isn't actually worse in every area but battle speed and cement trucks Hulk. It's the Spider-Man show and he is almost the face of the company. His feats are still his but had he been a little less popular to start off with, this wouldn't be the case imo. Actually if Marvel didn't have most of its most popular characters being that level it'd be different. You can almost smell the distain whenever you read any one of Monica Rambeau's appearances. Sure she's fast but also she should be useless 90 percent of the time too.

Thor would have gotten away with combat speed, if it wasn't for those darn meddling popular kids...and Wolverine. And Cap. I guess they count as old.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/rHqbWKEBAW8cE/giphy.gif

I'm just curious what these secret Hulk feats are. If it's anything but Hulk dancing with afterimages around Spidey-Dude, I will be sorely disappointed.

Originally posted by carver9
Read the OP please. I know its lengthy but the answer to your question is up there. Wow, Carver, please have mercy on him.

Typically only true speedsters (one of their primary powers) should be faster in combat.
Starting at Quicksilver.

Jane Thor has one of melting scalpels while doing surgery and I'm sure the hulk and surfer have a couple somewhere that also massively outdo most of Pete's but probably few. The heralds in Marvel don't use speed like DC or portray it often

Gladiator has some good combat feats.