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This is a question for both sides.
Is anywhere a source mentioning that he used a ritual?

The codex does suggest a ritual, yes. The most favorable interpretation for Failk is that it was left "ambiguous," but saying it was his own power is baseless.

It's absolutely not a ritual and anyone who says otherwise has never played the game nor watched the content.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's absolutely not a ritual and anyone who says otherwise has never played the game nor watched the content.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's absolutely not a ritual and anyone who says otherwise has never played the game nor watched the content.

I've watched the content.

I say it's a ritual.

Boom, argument debunked.

Maybe he fed on the deaths of the Jedi and Sith who killed themselves on Ziost(mind-controlled by him)?

Originally posted by Azronger
I've watched the content.

I say it's a ritual.

Boom, argument debunked.
There was a third reason there, but I removed it since it was mean.

You fit under it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's absolutely not a ritual and anyone who says otherwise has never played the game nor watched the content.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
There was a third reason there, but I removed it since it was mean.

You fit under it.

Hello there, mister Oppress.

I watched it a while ago. From what I.gathered is he needed to cause death and chaos across the planet by doing his possession, feeding on it until eventually he becomes powerful enough to absorb Ziost.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
There was a third reason there, but I removed it since it was mean.

You fit under it.

Hey I thought we were cool what's your problem bro

Originally posted by The Merchant
I watched it a while ago. From what I.gathered is he needed to cause death and chaos across the planet by doing his possession, feeding on it until eventually he becomes powerful enough to absorb Ziost.
Figured out that too.

But this is weak Vitiate, right?

Maybe not a ritual. But it seems he needed to feed on those deaths to unleash that ability.

What's the basis for it then

'Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.'

The text pretty clearly seperates Ziost's destruction from those caused by rituals or machines and suggests its the corrosive power of the dark side that caused it instead. At the very least it doesn't indicate a ritual at all.

Didn't Vitiate need to feed on those Jedi and Sith to unleash that Force blast?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's absolutely not a ritual and anyone who says otherwise has never played the game nor watched the content.

Go on.

I honestly don't get the point of this think. Rituals require already having the raw power required to power them as well as the mastery and affinity for the Force to use them. If the point was to say Vitiate can't just randomly use it in combat, that argument is pointless. Drain is already stated to be hard to use in combat for anyone. I think if Bane can get over that limitation, Vitiate can. No one in Star Wars has a presence in the Force comparable to an entire planet's population anyway.

It should be noted that even if it weren't a ritual (which seems to be mostly a game of burdens of proof) he doesn't just do this on a whim, it takes quite a bit of effort and build-up. (that he appears to go through the most immediate execution quickly doesn't contradict that fact)

It's not a Ritual, the text clearly indicates otherwise, Revan's comments during the Novel indicating he didn't need as such, indicate it was his own personal power that did this.

Their is more of a case for than against, with the burden of proof being on you guys to prove it were a ritual.

Originally posted by Azronger
What's the basis for it then

Also, I feel like everyone overlooks the fact that Ziost was a dark side nexus, so Vitiate was amped.

Originally posted by Azronger
Also, I feel like everyone overlooks the fact that Ziost was a dark side nexus, so Vitiate was amped.
Vitiate wasn't even at full power.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate wasn't even at full power.
^^

Vitiate, preformed the Death field, and after killing all life on the planet from it, he became even more powerful.

And the amusing thing is he did so, while as a Spirit.(Weakened)

FYI: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/cataclysm-of-planet-ziost/105050/

Expect an update with important in-game dialogues soon.

Originally posted by Haschwalth the text clearly indicates otherwise,

No, it doesn't. The wording of the text is pretty ambiguous.



No, the most Revan's comments imply is that he can pull it off by himself over an unknown period of time on a dark side nexus - that tells us nothing about whether or not it was a ritual.

At this point it's just a question of which explanation is more plausible given the limited direct evidence we have. It doesn't make sense to say "it looked different from Nathema, so it must not be a ritual" (as though Vitiate only had one possible type of ritual) - the guy does all sorts of rituals on a memetic basis, and given that rituals let you do X with greater ease than through raw power, if a ritual were possible logically the energy/time-constrained Vitiate would use it first. None of this proves things either way, but it does establish a good deal of doubt even in the best case for Vitiate.

Now, regardless of whether it was a ritual or not, it certainly required more prep time and buildup than, say, Palpatine's Force storms, which he generates casually in multiple locations across light-years.

Eating a planet and generate a Force storm are not the same things, girl.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate wasn't even at full power.

Irrelevant. He would still be amped by the nexus in his weakened state. Whether that puts him above his natural level is not known, which is why the feat is ambiguous - or a ritual, as the codex implies (note, Skillz: I said implies, not that it definitively states that, so no need to jump on my back, kay?).

Or do you finally have some proof that it factually, inarguably, was a product of his own power, like you have been raving for months now? Here, I'll even link the video, so you can timestamp me.

Az, you are the one claiming that it was a ritual, it is not our job to prove the negative.

No, I said it was implied to be a ritual or ambiguous if you're generous to Failk, based on the codex entry that everyone's familiar with (or if not, I can post it when not on mobile). Your posse's the one that's claiming it was of his own power, and I've been asking for proof this entire thread.

Originally posted by Azronger
No, I said it was implied to be a ritual or ambiguous if you're generous to Failk, based on the codex entry that everyone's familiar with (or if not, I can post it when not on mobile). Your posse's the one that's claiming it was of his own power, and I've been asking for proof this entire thread.

Az, you have misinterpreted that Quote you are referring too.
You are not quite understanding the context of how it was written.

He doesn't understand context in general. 👍🏻 🤛🏻

Originally posted by Nephthys
'Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.'

The text pretty clearly seperates Ziost's destruction from those caused by rituals or machines and suggests its the corrosive power of the dark side that caused it instead. At the very least it doesn't indicate a ritual at all.

lol

Well, Neph is half-right: The text does indeed offer a clear distinction between Ziost and planetary cataclysms of the past.

That distinction is whispered rumors vs. clear displays.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
Az, you are the one claiming that it was a ritual, it is not our job to prove the negative.

Technically Ant was the first one in the thread to make an absolute positive claim about this.

And the quote I used as evidence for my claim was posted by Nephtard (was gonna post it myself but why bother when you have unwitting pawns to do it for you?) so as far as this thread goes, I'm clean of any faulty debating tactics.

Instead, the ones whose backs you should be jumping on, DS0, would be your teammates, who've not posted a shred of evidence for their claims.

Thank you for the compli(men)t

Originally posted by Nephthys
'Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.'

Not sure if it does. In the first sentence it is rumored how planets are snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or dangerous machines. Then, the text tells that Ziost is a clear effect of the Sith ritual.

I mean, don't Sith rituals need the power of the dark side to use them?

The text does not contradict Ziost being a ritual at all.

The purpose of the text is to firstly point out that there had been "whispered rumors" of Sith rituals and machines causing destruction on a planetary level. This part simply exists to point out that such "rumors" are just that so far, rumors and the stuff of legends.

It then says that Ziost is a "clear display" of such power taken to its extreme. The purpose of this whole quote is merely to substantiate the fact that causing destruction on a planetary scale is very much a possibility and not just the stuff of legends if people weren't sure of them.

Didn't see Tempest's post, who already addressed this. Basically what he said.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
The text does not contradict Ziost being a ritual at all.

The purpose of the text is to firstly point out that there had been "whispered rumors" of Sith rituals and machines causing destruction on a planetary level. This part simply exists to point out that such "rumors" are just that so far, rumors and the stuff of legends.

It then says that Ziost is a "clear display" of such power taken to its extreme. The purpose of this whole quote is merely to substantiate the fact that causing destruction on a planetary scale is very much a possibility and not just the stuff of legends if people weren't sure of them.

This!

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Thank you for the compli(men)t

Anytime dude (☭ ͜ʖ &#9773

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I honestly don't get the point of this think. Rituals require already having the raw power required to power them as well as the mastery and affinity for the Force to use them. If the point was to say Vitiate can't just randomly use it in combat, that argument is pointless. Drain is already stated to be hard to use in combat for anyone. I think if Bane can get over that limitation, Vitiate can. No one in Star Wars has a presence in the Force comparable to an entire planet's population anyway.

Isn't a Force ritual's lore to assist/boost your power and skills if you are unable to perform a certain feat?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's absolutely not a ritual and anyone who says otherwise has never played the game nor watched the content.

It's pretty painfully obvious that this is the case. You legit couldn't have played through all of the content and read the novel if you think he needs a ritual for planetary destruction.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
The text does not contradict Ziost being a ritual at all.

The purpose of the text is to firstly point out that there had been "whispered rumors" of Sith rituals and machines causing destruction on a planetary level. This part simply exists to point out that such "rumors" are just that so far, rumors and the stuff of legends.

It then says that Ziost is a "clear display" of such power taken to its extreme. The purpose of this whole quote is merely to substantiate the fact that causing destruction on a planetary scale is very much a possibility and not just the stuff of legends if people weren't sure of them.

I disagree.



No where does the passage indicate it is stuff of legend, only rumors, which is a broad passage, so you cannot make the assumption that it is.

It then goes on to state Arcane machines/Rituals such as what Revan sought to employee.

It then goes on to say But.(which indicates otherwise)


This indicates that it is different to what Revan/the others sought to employee. As if you think about it, why would they indicate Ziost as being, taken to the extreme, when the likes of Revans ritual/etc would do the same, it's illogical.

The passage clearly refers to devoid of all life in which what ambria did, in which what Revan machine would of done etc.

You have Naga Sadow creating Supernovas/manipulating starfire ffs, and this is regarded to the extreme. So it can't possibly mean the affects on the environment, or have any type of device/sith ritual used.

Vitiate is factually superior to Nihilus, who has done similar without a Ritual, Revan stated he may of not need one in the Novel. All the evidence adds up. The ****er was close to finishing a Galaxy draining Ritual. The mental gymnastics you guys must do, to deny this is ridiculous.

Also, why the **** would he, wait till his power had increased on Ziost, when a ritual would of done the job in increasing his power either way, he was shown to be able to possess enough people for it not like it takes much power.

A few things to say here:
1. Don't Sith rituals need Dark Side Power to work?
2. There is no factual proof he is above Nihilus
3. Revan or the novel, IIRC, said that he prepared for the Galaxy Drain for centuries
4. Most KMC members will say that he was able to possess a multitude of people due to him harnessing the power of Ziost's Dark Side nexus

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
A few things to say here:
1. Don't Sith rituals need Dark Side Power to work?
2. There is no factual proof he is above Nihilus
3. Revan or the novel, IIRC, said that he prepared for the Galaxy Drain for centuries
4. Most KMC members will say that he was able to possess a multitude of people due to him harnessing the power of Ziost's Dark Side nexus

1.No shit
2.their is several quotes putting Vitiate greater than Nihilus, being the most powerful force user known, and it's within universe, so Abeloth can't be referred to.
3.he prepared for it, though he didn't start it though, which is different. he only started it with the GGE. And it was foiled by the HoT.
4.that argument is retarded, let alone the fact that after Ziost Vitiate would easily be able to overcome the difference with his new found strength.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
1.No shit
2.their is several quotes putting Vitiate greater than Nihilus, being the most powerful force user known, and it's within universe, so Abeloth can't be referred to.
3.he prepared for it, though he didn't start it though, which is different. he only started it with the GGE. And it was foiled by the HoT.
4.that argument is retarded, let alone the fact that after Ziost Vitiate would easily be able to overcome the difference with his new found strength.

1. Are you going to debunk my point or not?
2. Isn't that happening before Nihilus' rise to power?
3. So what did the preparation mean?
4. It is the only way of fixing inconsistencies. You got a point, however.

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
The text does not contradict Ziost being a ritual at all.

The purpose of the text is to firstly point out that there had been "whispered rumors" of Sith rituals and machines causing destruction on a planetary level. This part simply exists to point out that such "rumors" are just that so far, rumors and the stuff of legends.

It then says that Ziost is a "clear display" of such power taken to its extreme. The purpose of this whole quote is merely to substantiate the fact that causing destruction on a planetary scale is very much a possibility and not just the stuff of legends if people weren't sure of them.


Rituals fall under the corrosive power of the darkside, lal.

Yep.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
1. Are you going to debunk my point or not?
2. Isn't that happening before Nihilus' rise to power?
3. So what did the preparation mean?
4. It is the only way of fixing inconsistencies. You got a point, however.

1.lul what... I never denied they needed to use darkside power, but you missed the point.... the But was their after it stated rituals to indicate it wasn't one of those things.
2.no,there are ones after, during SWTOR.
3.figuring out, how to do such a complex ritual, no power is required there.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang


Rituals fall under the corrosive power of the darkside, lal.

Obviously.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
1.lul what... I never denied they needed to use darkside power, but you missed the point.... the But was their after it stated rituals to indicate it wasn't one of those things.
2.no,there are ones after, during SWTOR.
3.figuring out, how to do such a complex ritual, no power is required there.

1. To confirm the rumors?
2. So, it is after Nihilus' death. Of course Vitiate would be the one.
3. You do have a point post-Ziost. But isn't a ritual's role to help you do what you cannot normally do?

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
1. To confirm the rumors?
2. So, it is after Nihilus' death. Of course Vitiate would be the one.
3. You do have a point post-Ziost. But isn't a ritual's role to help you do what you cannot normally do?

1.No it wasn't to confirm rumors, it was to show that Vitiate could take it to the next, level is what I got. afterall wiping a planet is not to the extreme with the darkside, if you look at Naga sadow's supernova manipulation, which frankly is in another league in terms of power, using rituals. however it makes more sense to be on the extreme end if it were done without any Ritual/device, but pure mastery.

2.yeah, he was portrayed to be a worse threat by the Novel, so clearly he would have quotes by Swtor.

3.Think of it this way. there is around 100 billion stars in the Milky way, so we can assume the SW galaxy would have something similar, it is also quoted somewhere that their is around 10 million habitable systems(quote me if i'm wrong) according to meetras testament, of stars going black, confirmed by Wraths vision of the galaxy being drained, turning black. Vitiate through the use of Ritual would need a considerable amount of power to start such a thing. Is one planet being Death field without ritual really that unbelievable? In comparison to what Vitiate nearly achieved.

Why can't you quite believe it? paired with other statements(revan) etc, and Nihilus's actions to Katarr who is canonically inferior to Vitiate. Vitiates power spent 1300 years passively keeping Nathema as a Void, denying the basis of life.

Afterall their is a basis to assume it was done without use of ritual, going by the context of Swtor, along with other feats/statements. Compared to arguing that it was a Ritual, in which you have no evidence. And the burden of proof falls on to you. We know Ziost occured, and since you have no argument that it was a ritual, nor any evidence, which favors it without use of Ritual, we can comfortably assume he did it from his own power, until evidence comes out suggesting otherwise.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Isn't a Force ritual's lore to assist/boost your power and skills if you are unable to perform a certain feat?
No. But given the general lack of actual thought put into anything else you say, it's not suprising that you would at least claim to think so.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
1.No it wasn't to confirm rumors, it was to show that Vitiate could take it to the next, level is what I got. afterall wiping a planet is not to the extreme with the darkside, if you look at Naga sadow's supernova manipulation, which frankly is in another league in terms of power, using rituals. however it makes more sense to be on the extreme end if it were done without any Ritual/device, but pure mastery.

2.yeah, he was portrayed to be a worse threat by the Novel, so clearly he would have quotes by Swtor.

3.Think of it this way. there is around 100 billion stars in the Milky way, so we can assume the SW galaxy would have something similar, it is also quoted somewhere that their is around 10 million habitable systems(quote me if i'm wrong) according to meetras testament, of stars going black, confirmed by Wraths vision of the galaxy being drained, turning black. Vitiate through the use of Ritual would need a considerable amount of power to start such a thing. Is one planet being Death field without ritual really that unbelievable? In comparison to what Vitiate nearly achieved.

Why can't you quite believe it? paired with other statements(revan) etc, and Nihilus's actions to Katarr who is canonically inferior to Vitiate. Vitiates power spent 1300 years passively keeping Nathema as a Void, denying the basis of life.

Afterall their is a basis to assume it was done without use of ritual, going by the context of Swtor, along with other feats/statements. Compared to arguing that it was a Ritual, in which you have no evidence. And the burden of proof falls on to you. We know Ziost occured, and since you have no argument that it was a ritual, nor any evidence, which favors it without use of Ritual, we can comfortably assume he did it from his own power, until evidence comes out suggesting otherwise.

Nice try, friend. Nihilus ate more than just one planet and he sought only the ones rich in Force/life energy.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No. But given the general lack of actual thought put into anything else you say, it's not suprising that you would at least claim to think so.

Naga Sadow blew off stars, Kun froze an entire Senate(with barely an effort)

Woah! Kun>Nadd>Sadow>Palpatine.

Well, if you cannot be believed the literal fact of Vitiate>Nihilus. I guess I'm done with you.

Based on a hyperbole?

If you go with hyperboles and writer wanking. Then, Kun>Vitiate(post-Nathema)

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Based on a hyperbole?

If you go with hyperboles and writer wanking. Then, Kun>Vitiate(post-Nathema)
There is no hyperbole, your just in denial. You need help Nadd, it's unhealthy not being open to differing opinions.
You probably think, Nihilus would defeat GM luke in oneness with DE Sidious.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
There is no hyperbole, your just in denial. You need help Nadd, it's unhealthy not being open to differing opinions.
You probably think, Nihilus would defeat GM luke in oneness with DE Sidious.

"darkest power in the galaxy"?
Kun's accolade-ic establishment over the ancient Sith?

Sure you do...

Except that when it comes about your precious Valkorion, you highly overrate him and his accolades.




Katarr was not the only planet he consumed, though. So stop judging his power based on one consumed planet.


Where did you get that from? Really?
It was, in fact, stated that the more Nihilus drained, the greater his Hunger would become. His condition is not related to his ability to use a wide-planetary 'Force' drain. The more powerful he became, the more he had to drain. These two are mutable. He isn't that powerful because of his condition but because he drained a lot of worlds(which are rich in Force energy)



Except that Bastila's talent is 'normal' in terms of Force mastery. There are many Force users who are apt in some areas of the Force(for example Exar Kun in Sith sorcery)



1. Yes
2. No
Nihilus drained more worlds than Vitiate, so I would say he is more powerful than Vitiate.



Uh, yes, he did?
That's why he interfered in Onderon's political affairs.



Yes, he did, when he would be hungry. But Nihilus has shown concern for the Sith Order when he is fully fed. It wasn't arrogance that brought his fall, it was a blind trust in Tobin(Kreia's manipulation)



If he was stronger than Nihilus. He'd have shown himself to conquer the galaxy.


He could just drain unknown planets, you know...



Not that much of a boost. And he was using that boost to keep his immortality in check.



Except that he didn't. Whatever reasons you are looking for: Nihilus has shown capable to drain planets(and he drained more than Vitiate) That's a fact.
Whatever reason you are looking for Vitiate that he didn't/couldn't drain planets; it doesn't matter because he hasn't done. Simple as that.



His powers obviously increased. That's why he was able to drain so much Force energy from many planets. But he was using some of the energy he stole to sate his own Hunger.




Because Kreia has been with Nihilus for all their lives?

You do realize that Kreia only sees 'Force drain' in Nihilus? That's all. Anyways, by 'strength' she meant 'advantage'. And this is true because there is no advantage in having that hunger.

Just as Nihilus used some of his stolen power to appease his Hunger, Vitiate used that stolen power to keep his immortality in check.

However, people will use the Ziost's Dark Side nexus amplifying Vitiate's power. But that's irrelevant after draining Ziost because he got his 'lost-long' power back.