Ahsoka Tano vs. Quinlan Vos (Canon)

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Rebel95
Canon only, who wins?

Galan007
Quinlan's only chance is if he goes full berserker-rage and taps the dark side(ala Dark Disciple.)

Sans that, Ahsoka wins solidly. sad

Kurk
Hard to tell tbh. Both use somewhat similar forms; Vos defeating Dooku is somewhat circumstantial, but Ahsoka losing to Vader is too.

Hmmm...

I'm going to say because Vos is a man he has more upper-body strength and endurance than Tano. He'll wear her down like Vader smile .

Rebel95
Originally posted by Kurk
but Ahsoka losing to Vader is too.
How was that circumstantial?

Darth Thor
It wasnt. He KOd her once with TK. And in the final season we see only a Time Paradox saved her life in a pure Saber clash.

As for this, wont be much different to Vos vs Maul. The 3 of them are in the same league.

Nephthys
Unfortunately, canon Vos is retardedly strong so he wins.

Underachiever59
Vos, solidly. DD Vos made a fool out of Grievous and Asajj, both opponents that Ahsoka couldn't take. He also was a able to contend with, and circumstantially defeat, Count Dooku. Way more impressive than taking out a pair of mook Inquisitors or losing to Darth Vader.

Only way I see her having a chance is if morals are on and Vos isn't tapping into the Dark Side.

Darth Thor
Rebels Ahsoka couldnt take Canon Grievous? Ha!


FYI Those nook Inquisitors are all former Jedi.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by Darth Thor
It wasnt. He KOd her once with TK. And in the final season we see only a Time Paradox saved her life in a pure Saber clash.

As for this, wont be much different to Vos vs Maul. The 3 of them are in the same league. Not to say she was going to win (far from it), but her jamming her lightsabers into the ground and leaving herself open isn't exactly a pure saber clash. She gambled on it working quick enough and would have lost. She would have either "won" (in reality taken both of them) or lost due to that move, but it really had nothing to do with a saber fight in why she was going to be swiped. Her losing led up to it, but the moment itself wasn't pure saber skill.

It also kind of makes no sense since if she were taking both of them down, why not avoid Vader until the temple blows?

Galan007
Originally posted by One Big Mob
It also kind of makes no sense since if she were taking both of them down, why not avoid Vader until the temple blows? Ahsoka believed that fighting/killing Vader one-on-one was essentially her way of avenging her former master.

Vader: "Anakin Skywalker was weak. I destroyed him."
Ahsoka: "Then I will avenge his death!"


She could have just danced around the entire time or whathaveyou, but that would have undermined her resolve. She wanted to fight Vader.

One Big Mob
Yeah but, what did she think her bfr stunt would have done that a temple explosion wouldn't have? Was she planning to shiv Vader in the fall or something?

Galan007
Two possibilities, imo.

1.) It was just a last ditch effort. Ahsoka knew she wasn't going to defeat Vader, so maybe a fall + explosion combo might do what she could not.

2.) She was actually protecting Vader from getting hit with the blast at point blank range, so she triggered the fall.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Not to say she was going to win (far from it), but her jamming her lightsabers into the ground and leaving herself open isn't exactly a pure saber clash. She gambled on it working quick enough and would have lost. She would have either "won" (in reality taken both of them) or lost due to that move, but it really had nothing to do with a saber fight in why she was going to be swiped. Her losing led up to it, but the moment itself wasn't pure saber skill.

It also kind of makes no sense since if she were taking both of them down, why not avoid Vader until the temple blows?


Yeah Jamming her Sabers into the ground was a last ditch move to try and survive the fight by a possible BFR. But Her tactics are her choice. Vader needed none.

By pure Sabers I meant that TK was not used like the first time he KOd her.

Underachiever59
According to a Rebels Recon from Season 2, Rebels Ahsoka is less skilled with a lightsaber than she was in The Clone Wars. Her skills with a blade have grown rusty due to lack of frequent use. Her Force powers have grown a bit, maybe, but even that's speculative. All we know for a fact is that she's gained wisdom in the years since The Clone Wars. And since we know TCW Ahsoka couldn't take Grievous (he ragdolled her in Season 5, during their last encounter, which happened shortly before she left the Order), it's safe to assume Grievous would still be able to ragdoll Rebels Ahsoka, given her saber skills have declined, not grown.

And yes, I know the mook inquisitors are former Jedi. Doesn't make them anyless mooks. They're near-featless, aside from two of them working together being enough to defeat Kanan, a half-trained Padawan at the time. TCW Ahsoka fought an Inquisitor in the Ahsoka novel. She held her own against him unarmed with little difficulty, and even mentioned to Bail that any properly trained Jedi could handle such a foe.

The Inquisitors, aside from the Grand Inquisitor himself, are all mooks. Just like Sha'a Gi is a mook. Or Coleman Trebor. Or most of the Jedi who died in the Geonosis Arena. Being able to dispatch two weak Inquisitors does not equate to being superior to Grievous or Assaj, and it certainly doesn't equate to being able to take on Dooku and have a hope of winning.

Ahsoka's most impressive feat was holding her own against Vader, an extremely circumstantial duel which she still would have lost if it hadn't been for Ezra's temporal interference. Vader was driving her back almost the entire duel, despite her speed advantage, despite her mobility advantage, and despite her weapon advantage.

A fight against DD Vos using the Dark Side would be like a fight against a slightly weaker Vader, but without the speed and mobility disadvantages, and without the style familiarity that let Ahsoka contend with a combatant on Vader's level to begin with. I just can't see her coming out on top here. All Ahsoka has on Vos is paired lightsabers against a single saber. Vos, meanwhile, has beaten three opponents in Dark Disciple that all could take Ahsoka on their own.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by Galan007
Two possibilities, imo.

1.) It was just a last ditch effort. Ahsoka knew she wasn't going to defeat Vader, so maybe a fall + explosion combo might do what she could not.

2.) She was actually protecting Vader from getting hit with the blast at point blank range, so she triggered the fall. Maybe. It just seems a little pointless to me. Unless she were just trying to only bfr him, but then the temple explosion and her being on the shattered ground...

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah Jamming her Sabers into the ground was a last ditch move to try and survive the fight by a possible BFR. But Her tactics are her choice. Vader needed none.

By pure Sabers I meant that TK was not used like the first time he KOd her. Just saying the ground plunge shortened the fight. Who knows how long it would have went on otherwise? He was going to win, but I doubt it would have been the next swing like the ground plunge/no Ezra swing would have been.

Galan007
Ahsoka was quite fatigued by that point, so the battle wouldn't have lasted much longer at all, me thinks.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Rebel95
How was that circumstantial?
Dark side nexus. There's enough holistically implying his superiority anyhow, but it's stupid to claim there's a signficant gap, at least as of that point in Vader's career. Vader almost certainly wasn't in his prime. That said this version of vader has spent ten years growing since being able to pull down a freighter much larger than the one TCW Maul dragged and disintegrating lileks, so it's still very impressive.

She also drove back Maul on the aforementioned nexus, and held her own against Sidious's lightning before being overpowered.

As for the fight, Ahsoka is unquestionably more powerful, but if Dooku ragdolling Vos twice didn't prevent him from losing, I'm not sure what Ahsoka's gonna do. She prolly isn't on par with the count as a duelist.

Kurk
I'd like to see the source for Rebels Tano being < TCW Tano in saber skill

Underachiever59
Originally posted by Kurk
I'd like to see the source for Rebels Tano being < TCW Tano in saber skill

Watch the Rebels Recon from Season 2. It's in there. I don't quite recall which, but I'll find it if you need it.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Underachiever59
According to a Rebels Recon from Season 2, Rebels Ahsoka is less skilled with a lightsaber than she was in The Clone Wars.
85% sure they never say that.

Underachiever59
Well, I didn't remember the exact quote quite right. They never say TCW Ahsoka is > Rebels Ahsoka. Instead, they imply that Rebels Ahsoka hasn't really grown much as a fighter, and has more grown in terms of fighting mentality and spirituality.



Both Henry Gilroy and Pablo Hidalgo basically say the same thing during this Rebels Recon (Season 2, episode 9). Her fighting style hasn't changed, but she's more in control of it. She's grown in terms of mentality and spirituality, but her actual prowess as a fighter hasn't appreciably grown, just changed gears to something more focused.

At least, that's my interpretation of what they're saying. And it makes perfect sense, too. During the Clone Wars, Ahsoka was using her lightsaber daily, in life-or-death situations on the battlefield. After Order 66, she didn't use a lightsaber again for almost a year. And even after the Ahsoka novel, she wasn't taking part in battlefield combat like she'd been doing before. She was an intel agent for a budding Rebel Alliance. She might have occasionally used it against stormtroopers, maybe, but she wasn't an openly practicing Jedi like Kanan became during Rebels. It was only after Vader learned of Ahsoka's existence in Season 2 that Ahsoka would get the opportunity to engage in another lightsaber duel. Her fight against the Inquisitors was the first lightsaber duel for her in over a decade and a half. It doesn't make sense for her to have grown considerably in lightsaber skill during that time. But spiritually, mentally? Sure, I can totally buy that she's way more capable in those regards.

So, to sum up, I'm of the opinion that Rebels Ahsoka is not more skilled that TCW Ahsoka as a combatant. Just less flashy and more focused. With the massive disparity shown during Ahsoka's fight against Grievous in Season 5, I believe Grievous would still stomp Rebels Ahsoka, with a bit more difficulty, perhaps.

Meanwhile, back on the topic at hand, DD Quinlan Vos jobbed Grievous hard. The fight was less than a minute long, and Vos almost immediately managed to disarm Grievous. This is the same Grievous who has defeated Jedi Master Depa Billaba twice, defeated Adi Gallia in seconds (mostly off-screen during one of the droid-centric episodes of TCW), defeated Obi-Wan Kenobi (and nearly defeated him multiple times), and contended well with Assaj Ventress near her prime. DD Quinlan Vos beat Dooku. I don't know what else we need to say in this thread. Rebels Ahsoka isn't beating Dooku. She's not on that level. Vos is.

Rockydonovang
Nothing in the quote implies she didn't grow lal. It even acknowldges the possibility she honed her skills. This is pretty desperate stretching lal. And no grievous wouldn't stomp someone who's driven back Maul on a nexus.

Underachiever59
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Nothing in the quote implies she didn't grow lal. It even acknowldges the possibility she honed her skills. This is pretty desperate stretching lal. And no grievous wouldn't stomp someone who's driven back Maul on a nexus.

The fact that the question is, "How has she grown as a fighter?" and his response is "Her growth is more spiritual in nature" is what implies she didn't grow as a fighter. Yes, the quote implies she's had time to hone her skills. You know who else had time to hone their skills? Old Ben Kenobi. Yet people make the same argument for why RotS Kenobi is > than ANH Kenobi.

RotS Kenobi spent three years at war against the CIS, during which time he tested his skills daily and kept his skills sharp. After Order 66, he didn't have anyone to train with, and he didn't have a war to fight. Therefore, his skills grew rusty, and while he definitely grew spiritually and grew in terms of the Force, he was weaker as a combatant.

Ahsoka spent three years at war against the CIS, during which time she tested her skills daily and kept her skills sharp. After Order 66, she didn't have anyone to train with, and wasn't fighting an open war, instead working as an intel agent. Therefore, it makes sense to believe her skills grew rusty, and while she definitely grew spiritually and grew in terms of the Force, it makes perfect sense for her to be weaker as a combatant.

Can you not see the parallels here? She was basically brought into Rebels to be a parallel to Ben Kenobi. Wise older mentor who seems to be ready to guide the main characters in their paths to explore the ways of the Jedi, only to seemingly die by Vader's hand shortly after they were introduced into the story, yet 'survive' due to some obscure Force ability.

And even if I am wrong about Rebels Ahsoka not being far stronger than TCW Ahsoka, I still can't picture Rebels Ahsoka nearly defeating Dooku, the way that Quinlan Vos did (twice) in Dark Disciple. So we can go back and forth all you want over whether or not Ahsoka grew more powerful, but I have yet to see any argument placing her on Vos' level, which is the point of this thread.

As for Ahsoka driving Maul back on a Nexus, first off: Maul in Rebels is weaker than he's ever been. It was Sam Witwer who was the one to basically state this in a Rebels Recon. His words to Ezra when they first met, about Maul having grown weak, were true to a degree. Maul's lines about being old and weak, and no longer having the power he did, are true. It's not just a deception to fool Ezra into helping him, it's deception laced with sincerity.

Second: It's more accurate to say that Ahsoka held her ground against Maul for 20 seconds on Malachor, before retreating and leaving a recently blinded Kanan to deal with Maul. 20 seconds really isn't a meaningful length of time in the realm of Star Wars duels. Nearly every duel on screen has lasted for far longer than that one. Heck, Finn lasted longer against Kylo Ren, and AotC Kenobi lasted longer against Dooku. These were some of the most one-sided duels we've seen, and yet they lasted longer than Ahsoka stood against Maul. For the very few seconds we can see Ahsoka and Maul fighting, both are shown giving ground, but ultimately it's Ahsoka who jumps away. To me, the fact that she wasn't willing to stay and trade blows against Maul alongside a blinded Kanan is proof enough that she couldn't hold her own against Rebels Maul for any real length of time.

So basically, Ahsoka hasn't "driven back Maul on a Nexus," she was driven back by Maul, who was weaker than we've seen him at any other point in Star Wars. This just further supports the idea that Grievous would defeat her, or at the very least, it would be a close fight between the two. And yet again, this still doesn't put her anywhere near Vos in terms of ability, as he completely jobbed Grievous in Dark Disciple, in under a minute.

Darth Thor
Spiritual growth is a pretty big factor for a Jedi/Lightsider actually.

Shitface Filoni attributes Rebels Kenobi clear superiority over Maul almost exclusively to spiritual growth.


Originally posted by Rockydonovang
someone who's driven back Maul on a nexus.


Stop that nonesense.

Galan007
^ I was just going to mention that. thumb up

Darth Thor
^ Yeah that and the other one (perhaps the same interview) where he says he doesnt believe Maul and Kenobi can be equals in Saber combat because Maul never learned to be selfless like Kenobi.

Your quote likely explains it better but Interestingly he never actually attributes Kenobis superiority to superior combat skill or natural ability in the Force.

It seems to be more to do with a greater connection to the light side. Something Post ROTS Yoda and Obi-Wan pass onto Luke in spades.

So yeah, Ahsoka growing spiritually IS Ahsoka growing more powerful.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Stop that nonesense.
I apologize that the source material doesn't gel with your fan theories.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I apologize that the source material doesn't gel with your fan theories.


The irony of you saying this.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.