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Vote in the poll.

I guess Malak because of a random sentence in a random article that Leland Chee liked.

Don't forget to vote in the poll.

Exar Kun wins.

Kun due to superior skill. Should be a close fight, though.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I guess Malak because of a random sentence in a random article that Leland Chee liked.

/reviewed

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
/reviewed

Yes, we all know he dwelled a lot on the implications that statement of relative power had on the continuity (outside of ~2017+ vs. debating, it meant nothing as 99+% of fans and authors didn't even know it existed).

To be clear, I'm not rejecting it.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yes, we all know he dwelled a lot on the implications that statement of relative power had on the continuity (outside of ~2017+ vs. debating, it meant nothing as 99+% of fans and authors didn't even know it existed).

To be clear, I'm not rejecting it.

You could apply this logic to nigh all quotes tho.

This logic doesn't apply. That's the iffy problem.

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
You could apply this logic to nigh all quotes tho.

Hence why I'm not rejecting it, though I don't think it applies to all quotes (e.g. Palpatine has like a dozen supremacy quotes and the non-vs. EU fandom is pretty aware of his position as the most powerful Sith).

Originally posted by Azronger
Kun due to superior skill. Should be a close fight, though.
???

Exar Kun does have better demonstrations of technical skill and knowledge than Malak does to my knowledge, though I doubt that'd be enough to overcome someone "far more powerful" than him if that "power" is actualized.

That's primarily because Malak's a less established character.

Malak's far superior powers should translate to, at the very least, substantially greater physicals. Malak's also noted to have emphasized heavily on lightsaber combat, with his combat achievements in the Mandalorian Wars allegedly just as influential as Revan's military tactics, and apparently pressured Darth Revan to a "desperate" state in their first duel (which is more impressive than beating Vodo). There's really no reason why Kun should win because of an imaginary advantage.

Mainly though, Malak's proven to be highly capable of interweaving his Force powers and lightsaber combat together, so if he's far more powerful than Kun that will definitely determine the fight.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
???

I think Malak's power advantage isn't enough to override Kun's skill advantage. Simple.

Skill in what, lmfao?

Lightsaber combat. What else lol

Oh, this should be good.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/popcorn_2.gif

---

I'd like to see a case how Kun's raw technical skill is so much better than Malak's that it somehow outstrips Malak's stated vast Force superiority.

Is it Kun's genius re-discovery of the double-bladed lightsaber? His circumstantial triumph over Vodo?

Not doing extensive debates until summer, sorry. No popcorn this time.

tl;dr me then

Ant, would you have given this to Malak sans the Wizards quote?

In the past, my constant issue with debating Malak is simply the lack of material on him. While I can definitely see him as far more powerful than Kun without the quote, it's hard to argue in a debate setting without something so meretriciously concrete. With the Star Forge quote in place, it just provides fresh perspective for us to look back and reconsider some of the strange feats he has - such as handling the Star Forge infinitely greater than the Exiles did the Star Maps, blocking a planet-cleansing disturbance in the Force from the Jedi, his mere thoughts rippling out as a disturbance in the Force, his powers just so laughably surpassing mid-game Revan's, being labeled as "virtually unstoppable" by starwars.com, having powers "out of proportion" of the standard d20 stats, etc.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
In the past, my constant issue with debating Malak is simply the lack of material on him.

And that what we know of him makes him a chump?



Well that's easy for the guy who's respect thread claims Revan is > Kun based of comments from people who've never met Exar and thought that Revan was their finest student. It's called thinking with your dick.



It provides the perspective of Cory hendon's personal opinion on his blog. And a the means to look back at Malak's feats and ask what that guy was smoking when he asserted what he asserted.



False equivalency. None of this tells me that Malak has more personal power than Muur or Pall for example. Just that their order was comprised of more competitive individuals willing to fight each other for dominance. EG : like Malak betraying Revan. And in the end, all sith groups were prone to infighting for whatever reason. There's really no direct comparison between Malak and any one exile other than that he had a better weapon.



I'm not sure what this is, so you'll have to elaborate.



In other words, he can communicate with other force users via the force.



Just as Kun was "virtually unstoppable" in combat thanks to his power and skill.



Which are meant for gamaeplay purposes only. Not used as a power chart to confirm which characters are better than others.

DA just stop! Being a retard doesn't do you any good.

@Az: Good stuff. Since you said you're not interested in debates until the summer, should I not respond?

@JMANGO: Will respond in full.

@FNadd: If we polled every single member of KMC active in the last five years, not one wouldn't put you down as an actual retard. 95% of your posts are either outright ignored or, in the off-chance someone reads them, filled with the stupidest shit. I've never seen anyone say the slightest positive compliment to any post here. Every moment you make on KMC is the same as you opening a .txt file and writing in it there, just sometimes Microsoft gets pissed off and tells you how awful you are at everything. It amazes me you have the consistent audacity to insult anyone and everyone that you disagree with. It's like the kid with Down syndrome walking into a club and telling everyone they're a brick. Frankly, just leave.

You can reply if you wish. If your rebuttal's brief, I might write something in response. Don't count on it, though.

And yeah, go **** yourself, Freedumb. I have you on ignore and haven't opened a post from you in weeks, and that's a habit I don't plan on changing. So you're just wasting your time by addressing anything I say.

Kbro and Legend are probably more intelligent than Freedumb, honestly.

---

Malak isn't just stronger than Kun, he's far more powerful than him. I feel that distinction is dismissed by you too easily.

- Force augmentation is Force augmentation. Simply being more powerful than Kun may not mean he's stronger, faster, etc., but being far more powerful rather clearly places him beyond Kun in that regard, not to mention Malak clearly has a high physical base.

- I forget our last conversation about - why did you reject the prima guide again?

- No, it's said Bandon has yet to find his equal in combat pre-KOTOR, not that Revan was the first equal he ever fought. You're mixing it up with the Calo Nord quote.

- Nothing states Kun's armor is cortosis-weaved. A second light-battle suit found by Yavin traders has a cortosis weave, but it's stated that it's unknown Kun ever even wore it.

- Will get into the technical specifics later.

- What distinction is there? The word "far"?

- How? What? I could find several examples of people who have similar physicals but are on a vastly different level of power: Luke and Vader in RotJ, Dooku and Yoda in AotC (were around even in strength), Obi-Wan and Dooku in RotS, Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon and Maul in TPM, and the list goes on.

- You never showed me the statement from the Prima Guide

- You misunderstood what I was saying; I wasn't claiming "until Revan" was part of the quote. Now that I took a look at it again, though, it would seem it's restricted to Jedi. Not grammatically per se, but it'd be pretty odd to have Bandon as a superior overall combatant to Malak when everything else point to Malak being the MVP of the Sith at the time.

- Can you get the exact statement?

- Yeah?

- There's definitely inconsistencies - especially in the movies since Lucas doesn't give a damn about that shit and it's up to the EU writers to reconcile it all - but I'd disagree with all your examples. Kenobi's comparable to Dooku in power, although Dooku's superior power is shown via unleashing a telekinetic attack faster than Kenobi can react. A majority of sources, especially higher sources, put Yoda beyond Dooku in strength - it's really the tertiary sources that allude otherwise. I'd argue Luke is just as powerful as Vader, but regardless Fightsaber identifies his raw potential vastly increasing his instincts and reaction times (similar to how TPM Anakin can operate at speeds way beyond the normal human). With Maul vs Kenobi and Jinn, there's ought to be a dozen different accounts of the fight, ranging from Maul dominating them with physicals to them legitimately contending. Until an extensive collection and analysis of all the sources have been assembled like I did with Yoda vs Dooku, using it is kinda cherrypicking. Sorry that's long, so we can agree to disagree on that.

- I think I showed you the prima guide noting Revan is just trying to take the brunt of Malak's attacks and that Malak will leave the room after he's beaten Revan down enough.

- Eesh, the quote is obviously not suggesting Bandon is a superior combatant to Malak. That's just beyond absurd. The context is clearly stating he never found an equal of the Jedi he's fought.

- "Whether or not Kun ever actually wore the armor, no one can say for sure."

I thought Exar Kun = DE Sidious though mmm

- "Far more powerful" is still kind of arbitrary.

- Sure, that's fine. We can agree to disagree for now.

- No, you never showed it to me. Got a full scan/picture?

- Yeah, that's just what I concluded above.

- Full scan/picture and source, please?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Az: Good stuff. Since you said you're not interested in debates until the summer, should I not respond?

@JMANGO: Will respond in full.

@FNadd: If we polled every single member of KMC active in the last five years, not one wouldn't put you down as an actual retard. 95% of your posts are either outright ignored or, in the off-chance someone reads them, filled with the stupidest shit. I've never seen anyone say the slightest positive compliment to any post here. Every moment you make on KMC is the same as you opening a .txt file and writing in it there, just sometimes Microsoft gets pissed off and tells you how awful you are at everything. It amazes me you have the consistent audacity to insult anyone and everyone that you disagree with. It's like the kid with Down syndrome walking into a club and telling everyone they're a brick. Frankly, just leave.

Because this entire Star Wars KMC is mostly a forum of intellectual retards. If you cannot beat them. Troll them.

And I am pretty sure I have commented at various posts(talking about serious stuff)

You're just pissed off because Exar Kun>Malak.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I thought Exar Kun = DE Sidious though mmm

Originally posted by Azronger
You can reply if you wish. If your rebuttal's brief, I might write something in response. Don't count on it, though.

And yeah, go **** yourself, Freedumb. I have you on ignore and haven't opened a post from you in weeks, and that's a habit I don't plan on changing. So you're just wasting your time by addressing anything I say.

Yes, because you know your posts are the definition of 'shit' and you don't want to get criticized by certain users for what you 'work'. Just because you put me on 'ignore' list that doesn't mean I am done with it. I am still gonna argue with your 'arguments' whenever I see you write something stupid. Putting people on ignore list just further proves me you don't handle being criticized.

Originally posted by Azronger
Kbro and Legend are probably more intelligent than Freedumb, honestly.

They are. You are shit, though.
(In the near future stop calling me 'shit'. Remember that you are the shittiest of them all. Your Palpatine's no dick thread is a proof)

lmfao what a cringefest. Nadd's posting history is possibly the saddest thing I've seen on KMC.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Because this entire Star Wars KMC is mostly a forum of intellectual retards. If you cannot beat them. Troll them.

You can't beat a bunch of intellectual retards?

Just leave.



You have, but your contributions weren't thought of as actually contributional by anyone.

Literally, go and make a thread poll asking for one person to say otherwise.



The "you're just mad" comeback aside, the majority of the forum agrees with me that Malak > Kun. Compared to a poll like this a year ago, I am beyond happy with the current situation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

This fits Nadd perfectly, I believe.

If I was that: I'd add you on my ignore list like Azronger does when he cannot handle criticism.

Whatever you, guys, say - it doesn't change the fact that this SW FORUM is (mostly) full of intellectual retards.

Most SW KMC members have a huge amount of information, and show a great display of lack of understanding the context. Of course there are exceptions: Legend, ILS, Sun Razer, the Big Mole(or something like that), quan chi, Kurk, Darth Ant 66(hoping he keeps it that way) Ancient Power(but sometimes biased)

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@FNadd: If we polled every single member of KMC active in the last five years, not one wouldn't put you down as an actual retard. 95% of your posts are either outright ignored or, in the off-chance someone reads them, filled with the stupidest shit. I've never seen anyone say the slightest positive compliment to any post here. Every moment you make on KMC is the same as you opening a .txt file and writing in it there, just sometimes Microsoft gets pissed off and tells you how awful you are at everything. It amazes me you have the consistent audacity to insult anyone and everyone that you disagree with. It's like the kid with Down syndrome walking into a club and telling everyone they're a brick. Frankly, just leave.

RIP Nadd

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
If I was that: I'd add you on my ignore list like Azronger does when he cannot handle criticism.

I have no possible clue what you are responding to here.



Consider what you just said from everyone else's perspective --

A random member joins a site many of us have been frequenting for a year, three years, five years, a decade, etc. He constantly makes posts unanimously considered stupid - filled with broken English, lacking contextual support, and overall contradictory to years of established, refined, and supported beliefs. When rejected by the board, he ramps up the intensity of both his post count and his insults - directed not just toward specific members but the overall legitimacy of the forum. You see, 'he's not wrong . . . everyone else is wrong!'

It's just embarrassing.



Maybe two decades from now members will read your posts and go, "This guy was ahead of his time. He knew what was up!" but as it stands no one is impressed nor intimidated by your comments.



It's curious that your list is largely those that openly disagree with you.

And not to toot my own horn, but you could spend twenty years of your life and still not come close to something like this -- http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=649895&pagenumber=7#post16541521 (or Andy's posts), ILS' and Nova's blogs, etc. The best of your barely coherent responses are maybe better than Kbro's worst - and that's a maybe.

Just leave.

You are just angry with me because I called you 'retard'. That's all. Which, by now, you should have realized I said it(more) as a joke like the KMC members like to say.

And second: I don't like making Star Wars Respect Threads. It takes too much time(literally). And I like doing other things.

Really? Are you going to judge my understanding based on my non-existent Star Wars "works"?

And to settle things straight:
1. I do give proper answers or ask questions at the threads I am involved in.
2. I do troll when I see pointless threads(such as Did Sheev have a dick?)
3. I always held you and the others ones(I listed) in high regards.
(4. I guess KMC turned me into a dick]



Yes. It's called having an open mind and admit there are people who are 'better' than you. And not be a ***** and block them just because you don't like them criticize you or have a different view.

And, yes, the 'dick' part was meant to Azronger.


And, no, Malak isn't>Exar Kun.

My suggestion: you don't have standing on this forum to "troll" without it negatively impacting your image. Worse, it is nigh-impossible to distinguish your "trolling" posts from non-trolling posts. If I make intentionally "troll" posts, members can generally tell since I've been here for five years with many debates to back my name. You don't, yet somehow act like Raz is your *****.

How do you plan to gain respect by calling most of KMC intellectual retards?

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Execute DarthAnt66.

^ ngl this one was pretty clever

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
My suggestion: you don't have standing on this forum to "troll" without it negatively impacting your image. Worse, it is nigh-impossible to distinguish your "trolling" posts from non-trolling posts. If I make intentionally "troll" posts, members can generally tell since I've been here for five years with many debates to back my name. You don't, yet somehow act like Raz is your *****.

How do you plan to gain respect by calling most of KMC intellectual retards?

The guys I listed above respect me. The other ones(the intellectual retards) I don't really care about. Lol
Of course there are also the unknowns(Myth Lord, Derron Solo, JMango, rocky, darthbane, Newguy, Admiral Thrawn)
I stand here neutral.

No need to make a big fuss out of it(it's not like I accused any of you of twisting historical truths or claiming scientific discoveries) Also, I have joined this forum in 2015. So, I guess I am 3 years old(guess I am on that year list of yours)

Side note: Just because some of you are SW Respect Thread makers that doesn't mean I - or others - have to agree with everything you guys say. You(at least, now) act as if you work in a field of science or literature and every word you say about Star Wars is/and must be law. And if someone disagrees with you, they must leave.


For the sake of this thread. I have no point in continuing it. If you want to 'debate' it further, just PM me.

I never once said making respect threads has anything to do with anything.

But you think being more active on this forum makes some KMC smarter, right?

(KMC is dead. And we killed it.)

"Makes some KMC smarter?" What?

KMC members(I meant)

There's no correlation between current activity and "smartness."

Ok, then. I am not retarded regarding that. So, we are all goooooood.

And Malak is beaten by Exar Kun.

We should make Freedon Nadd take a turing test.

He wouldn't pass

I don't see why Malak wouldn't be above Kun with the Star Forge. It's a relic even Vitiate desired that channels both dark side energies and star energies together to work. Iirc Malak even blocked all the Jedis precognitive abilities throughout the galaxy with it akin to Palpatine blocking the Jedis foresight.

Originally posted by The Merchant
I don't see why Malak wouldn't be above Kun with the Star Forge. It's a relic even Vitiate desired that channels both dark side energies and star energies together to work. Iirc Malak even blocked all the Jedis precognitive abilities throughout the galaxy with it akin to Palpatine blocking the Jedis foresight.

Sorry what states this?(blocking the Jedi's foresight)

Originally posted by Azronger
He wouldn't pass

Of course not. It's meant for retards like you.

Originally posted by The Merchant
I don't see why Malak wouldn't be above Kun with the Star Forge. It's a relic even Vitiate desired that channels both dark side energies and star energies together to work. Iirc Malak even blocked all the Jedis precognitive abilities throughout the galaxy with it akin to Palpatine blocking the Jedis foresight.

This is not a battle of armies where Malak would win. It's a 1v1 versus.

And the Star Forge feeds on Dark Side energy. It doesn't boost your Force strength. It feeds with your power to create droids, and fleets(?).

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Sorry what states this?(blocking the Jedi's foresight)

Bastila Shan says this to Revan during their time as prisoners on Malaks flagship, The Leviathan.

Originally posted by The Merchant
I don't see why Malak wouldn't be above Kun with the Star Forge.

I do. Because the Malak's force powers under the influence doesn't seem to budge much past his base. On the forge, he kills jedi with his with dark side attacks, was he not able to do that by himself? And as Ant mused, he pushes Darth Revan to "desperation" in their duel. Yet under circumstances that should favour him ridiculously, the outcome doesn't change that much against light-side Revan. Please don't pretend your premise has any profound authenticity beyond a sentence that is both hyperbole and subjective in nature. Ant tried, but rather than replying back to a grilling response from myself, he seems intent on a long winded roasting of Freedumb Gonadd



Strong cool story bro. Vitiate probably saw the forge much in the same way Revan did; an inexhaustible fleet of ships billowing forth to crush his enemies. Not as a personal arena for him to curb stomp any lone Jedi challenger. Because while the Forge is decent for the former, it doesn't seem to work to great for the latter.



Is this where we're at now? Giving Malak feats he's not personally responsible for?



Please tell me where it says Darth Malak is the sole constituent for the dark side growing stronger. This feat is nothing similar to what Palpatine achieved on his own.

Good points, Jango's Balls. I would also add that those ripples in the Force Malak sent were just a disturbance. Even Luke did that. Marka Ragnos' spirit. Freedon Nadd's spirit.



Cool story, bro. Did you make it?