Weakest character that can overpower juggernaut's defence with brute strength

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Dareangel
so we all know juggernaut is invulnerable to physical damage. however, logic tells us that all of this protection and his powers come from cyttorak, therefor, by logic someone more powerful than cyttorak should overcome the defence. but must that character even be more powerful than cyttorak? i mean its not like cyttorak puts his entire effort into protecting juggernaut. after all, juggy has just some portion of cyttoraks power. with all that being said, which character is the weakest one that can physically overcome all that resistance and harm juggernaut?

riv6672
One Punch Man?

Dareangel
Originally posted by riv6672
One Punch Man?

you believe he can?

riv6672
Originally posted by Dareangel
you believe he can?
By definition, One Punch Man could do it in one punch, man.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by riv6672
By definition, One Punch Man could do it in one punch, man.


Nice segue, Riv.


However, according to the comics, the answer is "Nightcrawler".


https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38435639_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38435640_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38435641_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38435642_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38435643_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38435644_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38435645_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38435646_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38435647_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38435648_image.jpg

Source: Uncanny X-Men #102
Circa: December 1976

Dareangel
in this scan he was hurt by fire in his face, not nightcrawler himself. but juggernauts first appearances didnt exactly portray the juggernaut we know. back in those days, the writers didnt plan to portray him yet as this invulnerable force. even beast was able to hurt him h2h. only a little bit later marvel decided to make juggernaut the juggernaut we know today. hence, in his fight vs beast, when hank took away the gem from him, juggernaut turned into an old man Lol. so on paper they are canon but essentially they are not

riv6672
Thanks!



NICELY played, bwr!

Dareangel
Originally posted by riv6672
By definition, One Punch Man could do it in one punch, man.

so one punch man can destroy TOAA with a punch?

Stoic
Originally posted by Dareangel
so we all know juggernaut is invulnerable to physical damage. however, logic tells us that all of this protection and his powers come from cyttorak, therefor, by logic someone more powerful than cyttorak should overcome the defence. but must that character even be more powerful than cyttorak? i mean its not like cyttorak puts his entire effort into protecting juggernaut. after all, juggy has just some portion of cyttoraks power. with all that being said, which character is the weakest one that can physically overcome all that resistance and harm juggernaut?

You should have used Kuurth or 8th Day Juggernaut. Just saying.

riv6672

Galan007
Originally posted by Dareangel
in this scan he was hurt by fire in his face, not nightcrawler himself. but juggernauts first appearances didnt exactly portray the juggernaut we know. back in those days, the writers didnt plan to portray him yet as this invulnerable force. Mind you, in the same issue Juggernaut tanked(as in: wasn't even scratched by) multiple slash-attacks from Wolverine:

https://i.imgur.com/G2q4MG9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rdencvG.jpg



And there's not many characters this side of abstract who can outright tank slashes from Logan like that... Moreover, that was also before Juggy was given a bonafide force-field to help protect him(IOW, he was just packing raw physical durability in that issue, lol.)

So yeah, even back then he was portrayed as an 'invulnerable' force. Thing is: Cain usually succumbs to PIS/CIS far harder than pretty much any character, ever.

Dareangel
RIV - no, one TAO is not juggernaut. however, if you give one punch man the win by a definition and his name, then that should also work on TAO no?

Dareangel
Originally posted by Stoic
You should have used Kuurth or 8th Day Juggernaut. Just saying.

why? they are a bit overpowered no? thought it would be more interesting with average juggs. but then again, both of the versions you mentioned are more powerful, however are they more durable?

Dareangel
Originally posted by Galan007
Mind you, in the same issue Juggernaut tanked(as in: wasn't even scratched by) multiple slash-attacks from Wolverine:

https://i.imgur.com/G2q4MG9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rdencvG.jpg



And there's not many characters this side of abstract who can outright tank slashes from Logan like that... Moreover, that was also before Juggy was given a bonafide force-field to help protect him(IOW, he was just packing raw physical durability in that issue, lol.)

So yeah, even back then he was portrayed as an 'invulnerable' force. Thing is: Cain usually succumbs to PIS/CIS far harder than pretty much any character, ever.

yes juggernaut was durable, but he was not what we know today. like you said yourself, all the force field and invulnerability came later. i feel like wolverine wasnt able to cut him due to his superman human durability + armor. while as you can see in his first apearances, blunt force did effect him. the most laughable showing is his fight against beast where juggernaut turns into an old man. this portrays perfectly what he was before. its like the opposite with beast. when beast was just introduced, he was intended to be a powerhouse, something like colossus. but later on marvel decided to take that away and make him just a hairy bouncy scientist.

riv6672
Originally posted by Dareangel
RIV - no, one TAO is not juggernaut. however, if you give one punch man the win by a definition and his name, then that should also work on TAO no?
Why?

Dareangel
Originally posted by riv6672
Why?

as i explained, based on your answer.

riv6672
Originally posted by Dareangel
as i explained, based on your answer.
As i asked, based on your elucidation.

Dareangel
i asked if you think one punch man can harm juggernaut, you answered that he can by the definition and his name. therefor, if he can hurt juggernaut just because he is the one punch man, then same thing should apply to TAO as well no?

Enzeru
Originally posted by Dareangel

so one punch man can destroy TOAA with a punch?

No, One Punch Man can not destroy TOAA with a punch, because TOAA is above everything else in fiction. TOAA is supposed to be the creator and controller of the Marvel universe, the arguably biggest fictional universe in existence. You can't even pick the top dog in the DC universe and put him against TOAA, because TOAA would still be a good degree above him.

One Punch Man however can destroy even the most powerful being as long as it can be affected by physical damage. That's what the character was created to be. He is a parody of western superheroes and the japanese shonen manga genre. The superhero part is self-explanatory, but the shonen genre always features these heroes, who continue to evolve and always reach a new level of power, which is needed to win a fight. Look at Boros, who was the final boss in the anime. It was pretty much Broly, who continued to obtain new forms and turned into a Super Saiyan 3 by the end, only to still be one-shot by One Punch Man.
Put the Hulk against One Punch Man and Hulk gets pulverized into oblivion. Put Superman up against One Punch Man and Superman gets pulverized into oblivion as well. That's the entire purpose of the character.

riv6672
Originally posted by Dareangel
therefor, if he can hurt juggernaut just because he is the one punch man, then same thing should apply to TAO as well no?
Why?

Dareangel
Originally posted by riv6672
Why?

read again

DarkSaint85
Lol. You used a bad example.

What does TOAA stand for again? IF Riv is giving it to OPM based on his name...

Dareangel
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. You used a bad example.

What does TOAA stand for again? IF Riv is giving it to OPM based on his name...
but i am not giving anyone anything based on names. i am just pointing out his logic with names, however if we indeed go by names then which name should top the other? ok i will make it easier. the living tribunal vs one punch man. based on riv, one punch man should win

riv6672
Originally posted by Dareangel
read again
Again, why?

Dareangel
Originally posted by riv6672
Again, why?

it was your statement

Magnon
OPM's strength has no limit, literally. Everyone and everything else in OPMU creation has limits imposed on them by god, but not him. Strength-wise OPM is every bit as limitless as the god.

Still, limitless strength probably wouldn't harm the supreme being (why would he be harmed by anything physical?). Juggernaut, however, would be toast.

Dareangel
Originally posted by Magnon
OPM's strength has no limit, literally. Everyone and everything else in OPMU creation has limits imposed on them by god, but not him. Strength-wise OPM is every bit as limitless as the god.

Still, limitless strength probably wouldn't harm the supreme being (why would he be harmed by anything physical?). Juggernaut, however, would be toast.

so one punch man can destroy the living tribunal or thanos with the infinity gauntlet?

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Dareangel
in this scan he was hurt by fire in his face, not nightcrawler himself. but juggernauts first appearances didnt exactly portray the juggernaut we know. back in those days, the writers didnt plan to portray him yet as this invulnerable force. even beast was able to hurt him h2h. only a little bit later marvel decided to make juggernaut the juggernaut we know today. hence, in his fight vs beast, when hank took away the gem from him, juggernaut turned into an old man Lol. so on paper they are canon but essentially they are not


Wow.

Not sure I would have even CONCEIVED something like this if you hadn't told me.

Just about like you said (though I'm not sure the actual gem got taken away as opposed to only Jug's helmet), but, yeah, Beast took on Jug, then took Jug's helmet, then beat Jug into old age, though there was a lot of weird stuff going on in that story:

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447938_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447939_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447940_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447941_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447943_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447944_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447945_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447946_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447947_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447948_image.jpg

Magnon
Originally posted by Dareangel
so one punch man can destroy the living tribunal or thanos with the infinity gauntlet?
Damage their physical forms, if they have those, sure.

Dareangel
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Wow.

Not sure I would have even CONCEIVED something like this if you hadn't told me.

Just about like you said (though I'm not sure the actual gem got taken away as opposed to only Jug's helmet), but, yeah, Beast took on Jug, then took Jug's helmet, then beat Jug into old age, though there was a lot of weird stuff going on in that story:

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447938_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447939_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447940_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447941_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447943_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447944_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447945_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447946_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447947_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38447948_image.jpg

yeah. for me thats the wierdest and most bizare comics to this day.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Dareangel
juggernaut's first appearances didnt exactly portray the juggernaut we know. back in those days, the writers didnt plan to portray him yet as this invulnerable force. even beast was able to hurt him h2h. only a little bit later marvel decided to make juggernaut the juggernaut we know today ...


Armed with this information, the action of the classic X-Men arcade game of decades ago makes sense:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yMFonmGa9VQ


I thought the game designers made Jug vulnerable only out of practical considerations; I never realized they could actually have been ACCURATELY adapting what they might've read in the comics to the playing screen.

Dareangel
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Armed with this information, the action of the classic X-Men arcade game of decades ago makes sense:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yMFonmGa9VQ


I thought the game designers made Jug vulnerable only out of practical considerations; I never realized they could actually have been ACCURATELY adapting what they might've read in the comics to the playing screen.

Lol hope it didnt ruin your childhood memories

riv6672
Originally posted by Dareangel
it was your statement
It was your interpretation.

bluewaterrider
Didn't have room before; posts have a 10-pic max,
here's the ref info for Beast versus Jug turning into an old man:

https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38449509_image.jpg

Source: Amazing Adventures #16
Circa: 1970



Sure am curious to know how they brought Jug back after that, though.
The conclusion of that story, shown earlier, looks as final as the original Black Adam's fate ...

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by Dareangel
so we all know juggernaut is invulnerable to physical damage. however, logic tells us that all of this protection and his powers come from cyttorak, therefor, by logic someone more powerful than cyttorak should overcome the defence. but must that character even be more powerful than cyttorak? i mean its not like cyttorak puts his entire effort into protecting juggernaut. after all, juggy has just some portion of cyttoraks power. with all that being said, which character is the weakest one that can physically overcome all that resistance and harm juggernaut?


Eliminating the "brute strength" part, I'd go with Nightcrawler or Livewire.
I'm not sure if Leslie has super strength outside the Diniverse Superman cartoons. If she does, Nightcrawler might get the nod, with the decider being how strong the very small Kurt Wagner is compared to a reasonably fit 140 pound woman. If he's stronger, Livewire gets the nod, if Kurt's weaker, he takes the crown.

Livewire should be able to down Juggernaut with the high frequency hypersonic trick she used in Flash #237 (Volume 2?) to take down Superman. Nimrod used essentially the same tactic to render Juggs insensible when he was targeting the X-Men. That appears in my Rogue respect thread.
So does Alison Blaire stopping J, incidentally.


Actually, if you want a relatively canon answer with little if any inconsistency, "Rogue" is probably the best answer to this thread.
At her base, she is only a normal woman. With her power active, however, she is either normal woman OR Ms. Marvel level (or even Wonder Man level, hard to keep up with MU these days) AND she has the ability to essentially match the strength and abilities of anyone she touches.
She can do this and debilitate her target, but she can also "borrow" power without harming them now, having gained some control over her ability.

That essentially means Juggernaut would be exactly matched with his OWN brute strength level. If the following is any guide, that's more than enough to make him feel pain:

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38453668_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38453669_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38453670_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38453671_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38453672_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38453673_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38453674_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38453675_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38453676_image.jpg

Source: Marvel Team Up #150
Circa: 1984

carver9
One Punch would punch Juggernaut to dust.

Dareangel
well well well, will you look at THAT!!. what do you think now??

Parmaniac
One Punch Man is a satire character

Dareangel
but what do you think about the scan above? look how the champion humiliated juggernaut

Baziemarc123
Originally posted by Dareangel
but what do you think about the scan above? look how the champion humiliated juggernaut

that's recent? and the pic's small, i also thought juggs had enough power to kill cyttorak now. he also didn't get humiliated, notice how he's still moving in the bottom panel and saying "I Give etc etc"

Dareangel
Originally posted by Baziemarc123
that's recent? and the pic's small, i also thought juggs had enough power to kill cyttorak now. he also didn't get humiliated, notice how he's still moving in the bottom panel and saying "I Give etc etc"

moving? sure but he was owned. he gave up and was in pain by champion. this is very weak man

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