Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

what do you think guys?

He's like a street. Wolverine takes him out.

he is like a mid herald with mjolnir so no

On avg, probably. But he can easily punch up. He loses a lot of versatility w/o mew mew. No flight, no teleporting, no matter manip, no energy absorb, no shielding(except with axe), no hammer blitz, no a lot of other stuff.

Yes, mid-herald. Except abstract level vs. Beyonders and Celestials.

No, not really.

I'd put him at low herald.

Originally posted by Dareangel
what do you think guys?

trans tier imo

Originally posted by Sin I AM
trans tier imo

This. He still has the power in him to one shot a lot of heralds without Mjolnir. Good last and norn bolts etc.

i mean honestly, without mjonir, he is hercules.... no?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
trans tier imo

I think some mid heralds can survive the sun though. Probably low.

Originally posted by Dareangel
i mean honestly, without mjonir, he is hercules.... no?
That's if u don't count his weather powers and haxe weapon(pun intended).
He has generally better strength feats too.

He is low-herald. Would lose to most of them, though.

Originally posted by Dareangel
i mean honestly, without mjonir, he is hercules.... no?

no. hercules has been regulated to b list. thors energy projection is what gives him a push

Hercules is not B-list. And he also has his mace within the rankings, so he hits harder than Thor without Mjolnir.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/51779/997989-37123176.gif

yeah the lightning would still give him a majority over herc i think, but w/o the hammer he is likely low/mid. def not high. he even lamented that he could no longer fly now that the hammer was gone. /shrug

Rhino on a bad day with a flu and a fractured femur would probably knock hammerless thor out 55/100, using his quick footedness and top tier slick boxing skills, the likes of which Asgard has never seen.

http://imgur.com/NRRtSUR.jpg

At the ground shockwaves...

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah the lightning would still give him a majority over herc i think
Didn't they retcon Herc into being immune to lightening? Even mortal Herc wasn't fazed by it.

Yes
100%

there was something about him and lightning but i can't recall where i saw that. thor's lightning has ko'd him at least twice that i can recall off the top of my head though. if you have an idea of where the retcon took place i'd love to know it.

Originally posted by leonidas
there was something about him and lightning but i can't recall where i saw that. thor's lightning has ko'd him at least twice that i can recall off the top of my head though. if you have an idea of where the retcon took place i'd love to know it.
This was when he was mortal Hercules and dressed up as Spider-man. He was fighting a few X-Men, among them Storm. She lashed out at him with lightening and he just laughed it off saying his father is the lightening.

EDIT
Here are the scan :
https://s14.postimg.cc/84lcam6fx/spidermanhercules12.jpg https://s14.postimg.cc/f7t7q8jl9/spidermanhercules13.jpg

He loses flight, dimensional travel, energy absorption, energy projection and being able to hit opponents with something really hard. So, he'd be eating a lot more energy blasts (relying more on basic durability), loses a lot of range and manoeuvrability. I think all the heralds would be able to beat him.

Originally posted by zopzop
This was when he was mortal Hercules and dressed up as Spider-man. He was fighting a few X-Men, among them Storm. She lashed out at him with lightening and he just laughed it off saying his father is the lightening.

EDIT
Here are the scan :
https://s14.postimg.cc/84lcam6fx/spidermanhercules12.jpg https://s14.postimg.cc/f7t7q8jl9/spidermanhercules13.jpg



i remember that now, thanks for the scan. and tbh i think at the time i had the same discussion about a retcon with someone and i think i probably said the same thing then as now--we'd have to wait until the next time someone tried lightning on him. i liked the idea he had immunity because of zeus--made sense--but i don't think the one time necessarily offsets the other times it has affected him badly. i'll def keep my fingers crossed though.

Originally posted by leonidas


i remember that now, thanks for the scan. and tbh i think at the time i had the same discussion about a retcon with someone and i think i probably said the same thing then as now--we'd have to wait until the next time someone tried lightning on him. i liked the idea he had immunity because of zeus--made sense--but i don't think the one time necessarily offsets the other times it has affected him badly. i'll def keep my fingers crossed though.
I don't even care about the lightening immunity, although it would make sense given who his father is, I just want Marvel to drop the whole "buddy Herc" image he has. He's a freaking joke character when he could be so much more. I want the serious but good hearted Herc from the 60s up to the mid 80s with his adamantine mace. I'll settle for that and be happy.

Originally posted by leonidas


i remember that now, thanks for the scan. and tbh i think at the time i had the same discussion about a retcon with someone and i think i probably said the same thing then as now--we'd have to wait until the next time someone tried lightning on him. i liked the idea he had immunity because of zeus--made sense--but i don't think the one time necessarily offsets the other times it has affected him badly. i'll def keep my fingers crossed though.

didnt Ragnarok affect him?

wow, judging by what i see here, which also makes sense, this is not thor with or without mjolnir, its mjolnir with or without thor Lol.

Originally posted by zopzop
This was when he was mortal Hercules and dressed up as Spider-man. He was fighting a few X-Men, among them Storm. She lashed out at him with lightening and he just laughed it off saying his father is the lightening.

EDIT
Here are the scan :
https://s14.postimg.cc/84lcam6fx/spidermanhercules12.jpg https://s14.postimg.cc/f7t7q8jl9/spidermanhercules13.jpg

He wasn't just dressed as him, he had Spider powers...

Powerless Herc would've gotten disintegrated and your computer would've shared his fate.

Exactly. His Spider-man-level durability allowed him to no-sell the lightning bolt. If only he was more trained in using his spider upgrade he would've dodged it too.

He got better spider-powers than Pete, if we consider Herc's frame...

Same way Brock was an upgraded Puny Parker.

I git you back Stilt.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Same way Brock was an upgraded Puny Parker.

A superior Spider-man, if you will.

so people are saying that all this years it was mjolnir?

No, you are, but in a series of leading posts designed to drag things out/achieve an agenda.
Its not exactly opaque.

But its entertaining.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He got better spider-powers than Pete, if we consider Herc's frame...
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Same way Brock was an upgraded Puny Parker.

I git you back Stilt.
Originally posted by riv6672
A superior Spider-man, if you will.
You all three are now on my list.

EDIT: Just the two of you. Stilt's been there since 2010.

Originally posted by riv6672
No, you are, but in a series of leading posts designed to drag things out/achieve an agenda.
Its not exactly opaque.

But its entertaining.

i didnt say that. i am just trying to understand if thats what people are saying...
what agenda? if you dont like the direction the thread is going dont blame me. its the people stating their mind. and i dont know how entertaining is it for you, because it sure seems like it triggered you for some odd reason.

i am sorry riv, but you have to face it. thor without mjolnir is less than mjolnir without thor. ok?

Thor's power output is pretty up there. He can have a harder time with some of the heralds listed based on their powerset, but he can really put a hurtin on most if he really wanted to.
He can go on another level even without Mjolnir and the versatility it provides.

Originally posted by Dareangel
so people are saying that all this years it was mjolnir? On the forum? Mjolnir was obviously the big part of Thor's capabilities, both offensive and defensive. It's enough to browse any Thor vs 'x' character debate thread. Or tourney. Or whatever you like. Why are you acting like this is shocking?

he doesnt need mjolnir

Originally posted by Sin I AM
he doesnt need mjolnir Without Mjolnir, he loses to about a third of the low-herald tier in a forum fight and clearly, at the very least.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
he doesnt need mjolnir
I wonder what Aaron will do now when it comes to his new hammer(S). It feels like he's going to go the innate power thing with the hammer as a tool to focus his power. Always been the case even with Mjolnir, but it's going to be interesting since many believe Mjolnir was such a crutch... Which it was at times...

If he becomes just as formidable w/o Mjolnir... Oooooh weeeeh...

Funny thing is one of his greatest if not the greatest showing was Unworthy Thor giving an army of Beyonders a hell of a time.

Low herald actually.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I wonder what Aaron will do now when it comes to his new hammer(S). It feels like he's going to go the innate power thing with the hammer as a tool to focus his power. Always been the case even with Mjolnir, but it's going to be interesting since many believe Mjolnir was such a crutch... Which it was at times...

If he becomes just as formidable w/o Mjolnir... Oooooh weeeeh...

Funny thing is one of his greatest if not the greatest showing was Unworthy Thor giving an army of Beyonders a hell of a time.

i think he will fail initially as he believes his worthiness is wrapped up in an object not himself (which imo is aarons underlying theme) once he discards the notion that he needs a hammer to be a great god he will excel.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
A fully realized Thor doesnt need mjolnir.. The overlap in Thor's abilities, and Mjolnir's abilities, is mostly weather related. The other 95% of the stuff, are abilities Thor doesn't have. Thor is basically defenseless without it. Energy absorption, deflection, redirection, shields etc. Then there's a vast array of offensive stuff, even crazy ones like shrinking people, cancelling magic and whatnot.

Why would you say such stupid stuff?

Thor can't fly without mjolnir. That was the first thing Aaron showed.

And you collect Thor comics? I think not.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor can't fly without mjolnir. That was the first thing Aaron showed.

And you collect Thor comics? I think not.

i see u want attention. Kirby has depicted Thor flying without Mjolnir (as well as others) Aaron has not. But Aarons Thor self-admittedly is less than himself due to mental blocks. Arent you the one always bitchin about mental blocks with your pet characters?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i think he will fail initially as he believes his worthiness is wrapped up in an object not himself (which imo is aarons underlying theme) once he discards the notion that he needs a hammer to be a great god he will excel.
Sounds about right.

They've already touched upon his formidability without Mjolnir on more than one occasion. He's usually come out looking like a world beater.

Vs Apocalypse(Evan), Absorbing Man, Cyclops, Havok
Vs Hela, Proxima Midnight, Black Swan, Collector
Vs combined armies of Hel
Vs Gorr
Vs Orlog(Odin) w/4x his strength.
Vs amped Fenris and amped Loki
Vs amped Fenris and Durok
Vs Beyonders

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i see u want attention. Kirby has depicted Thor flying without Mjolnir (as well as others) Aaron has not. But Aarons Thor self-admittedly is less than himself due to mental blocks. Arent you the one always bitchin about mental blocks with your pet characters?
Are you saying he can't fly because of mental blocks? What an absurd claim since Thor needing mjolnir to fly has been shown across decades and Young Thor in Aaron run couldn't fly either.

Kirby also showed Hulk changing direction in mid flight, guess Hulk can fly too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you saying he can't fly because of mental blocks? What an absurd claim since Thor needing mjolnir to fly has been shown across decades and Young Thor in Aaron run couldn't fly either.

Kirby also showed Hulk changing direction in mid flight, guess Hulk can fly too.

Im saying "Kirby depicted Thor flying without mjolnir". Im saying "Aaron did not". Nice attempt at misdirect with Hulk though, you need to quit sparring with Carver...youre embarassing yourself here.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
how often does he do shrink people, bfr people, teleport, do a god blast, cancel magic etc? Hes constantly written down as a brawler and would rather tank shots than deflect or absorb them. I actively collect thor books so I can answer. Rarely if ever. He can fly without mjolnir yet everyone seems to think he cant. The only thing he used it for was a 99.9 % of the time was a bludgeon and a crutch. Which is the main reason Janes hammer use surprised him.

Quit pretending youre schooling someone when you are not Are you a new member on the forum? Welcome, benign woman!

You should read up on how we treat character's capabilities here. Then realize the massive difference having Mjolnir's abilities has for a full-capacity Thor compared to a hammerless version.

I expect your homework this weekend, monday at the very latest

Originally posted by SamZED
Well, now I feel bad... Sometimes my Spidey fanboism gets in the way.
-hug-

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Im saying "Kirby depicted Thor flying without mjolnir". Im saying "Aaron did not". Nice attempt at misdirect with Hulk though, you need to quit sparring with Carver...youre embarassing yourself here.
What the **** are you talking about now? First mental blocks for Aaron Thor and now deflecting about Kirby Thor?

Unworthy Thor under Aaron can't fly and that has nothing to do with mental blocks.

Glad we all agree Thor does have mental blocks though.

About being worthy and that has only been implied.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What the **** are you talking about now? First mental blocks for Aaron Thor and now deflecting about Kirby Thor?

Unworthy Thor under Aaron can't fly and that has nothing to do with mental blocks.

no deflection i said Thor could fly under other writers not named Aaron. please keep up.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
no deflection i said Thor could fly under other writers not named Aaron. please keep up.
This is about unworthy Thor. Keep up.

Originally posted by abhilegend
About being worthy and that has only been implied.
Funny how you used an implication about Superman (in his favor) recently, and i called you out saying you dont accept implications from others.
And here you are not accepting.
Dude, you cant have it both ways. Well, you -can-, but it undermines your credibility.

Originally posted by abhilegend
This is about unworthy Thor. Keep up.

there was no retcon so its valid

Originally posted by riv6672
Funny how you used an implication about Superman (in his favor) recently, and i called you out saying you dont accept implications from others.
And here you are not accepting.
Dude, you cant have it both ways. Well, you -can-, but it undermines your credibility.

abhi has no credibility

Originally posted by Sin I AM
there was no retcon so its valid



abhi has no credibility
Of course there was. Thor can't fly without mjolnir. He even talks about how it will be nice to fly again.

You talk about credibility? You?

^^^Actually that was me.

You using implications when it conveniences you, and then refusing to accept implications from others in return, has most defiitely -not- been retconned.

Thor has some Mystical abilities people forget, he has his God life force, the lightning. He also has damage soak second to none. Thor is a great character, I don't understand the hate for him these days. Whilst I like Jane Thor. I want real Thor back.

Originally posted by carver9
Glad we all agree Thor does have mental blocks though.




Dynamic

Originally posted by celeyhyga17




Dynamic

yea that too. thor has mental blocks and dynamic strength

Originally posted by Sin I AM
yea that too. thor has mental blocks and dynamic strength

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103503/3825375-fist+bump.gif

^^^damn i miss that cartoon.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/103503/3825375-fist+bump.gif

https://media0.giphy.com/media/oLQEegojp8ck8/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohzdYr1E0hdmI0gBa/giphy.gif

Thor without Mjolnir is no less than Orion without the Astroharness and wrist bracelets.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohzdYr1E0hdmI0gBa/giphy.gif

http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/associatedcontent/1628561.jpg

Originally posted by Sin I AM
yea that too. thor has mental blocks and dynamic strength

Stan lee says otherwise.

Originally posted by panthergod
Stan lee says otherwise.

u place lee over kirby?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/associatedcontent/1628561.jpg

https://carboncostume.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/dawson.jpg

Adventures in Babysitting - "Thor is Gay". Still funny Almost 30 years on.

Even without the hammer, I'm finding it difficult to place Thor in the same weight class as Wonder Man. Perhaps the majority of opinions are correct though.