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who are the top 10 physically strongest characters?

1.comics
2.all of fiction

Ultraman.

Lifting infinite weight is pretty hard to beat, tbh.

Originally posted by Galan007
Ultraman.

Lifting infinite weight is pretty hard to beat, tbh.

doubt He or Superman have anything that tops Hulk lifting Exitar. or the weight of a star, or tetcon plates

You heard of the Book of Limbo, or nah?

Originally posted by Galan007
You heard of the Book of Limbo, or nah?

Oh god how many times was that debunked? Besides that, they don't really have any

This question is almost impossible to answer. To come even close to an answer, you would need to set up a bunch of limitations and rules. If you don't set up rules, then a character like the Hulk, who is known for his strength... wouldn't even make it to the top 50.

There are plenty of omniversal, multiversal and universal characters, who are above concepts like strength and speed. The top 3 spots there would go to the individual uber-Gods of the three biggest comic book universes: Marvel, DC and Image.
For Marvel it would be The One Above All, for Image it would be the Man of Miracles aka Mother of Existence... and for DC it should be the Presence, although I'm not entirely sure how someone like the Over-Monitor compares to the Presence. But you get the idea.

If you take all of those abstract characters out of the discussion and try to go with regular, more tangible characters... it's still very hard to discuss it properly.
Galan mentioned Ultraman due to him lifting the Book of Infinite Pages, but I'm kinda not really feeling that. It's a too easy way out, because it implies infinite strength. But one could make the argument, that the Hulk has infinite strength as well. Beyonder said the Hulk had infinite power, so there must be something to it.

I think that many comic book readers will bring up Superman as an example, when it comes to more tangible strength... But how high up would Superman be on such top 10 list? Would he even make it into the top 10? There is a Marvel villain called Kurse, who is supposedly 4 times stronger than Thor. Is Superman 4 times stronger than Thor? I personally have my doubts. Superman is stronger than Thor, but imagine doubling Supermans strength? Is Superman stronger than that? I don't see it. And now imagine quadrupling Thors strength. There is no way in hell that Superman is stronger than that.

Then it also becomes the question of alternate reality characters. What about Superman-Prime One Million? That's a regular Superman, who spent a lot of time inside the Sun, which fueled his power. By default he should be a looot stronger. But that was a one time deal. I don't think that alternate reality characters should factor in, when it comes to such discussions.

Out of the top of my head, some of the more tangible and canon characters in the top 10 physically strongest characters in fiction, would be (in no particular order)...

Asura from Asuras Wrath:

That guy went up against beings larger than Earth at the beginning of the game and he only got more powerful since then. In the end he was blocking attacks from a god, who was so big, that his eyes had the size of galaxies.

Hyperion (Mark Milton) from Marvel:

Slowed down a planet larger than Earth, that was traveling at 500.000 miles per hour. He supposedly also held the weight of two universes apart and survived their explosion, while being at the center of it.

Hulk from Marvel:

His base form isn't as impressive as some other characters, but his power scales with his rage. Eventually he can reach a state like the World Breaker Hulk, where he simply wrecks shit. Upon colliding with another character he destroyed the planet he was fighting on and cracked a couple of planets around him. And I would call that a low showing for his potential strength levels.

Plutonian from Irredeemable:

The weight of a starsystem got dropped down on him. All of that weight liquified characters, who were strong and durable enough to split planets in half with mere punches. Plutonian just took it without any issue and that while being in a vegetative state. On another occasion he was carrying the weight of a neutron star.

Sentry from Marvel:

A weakened Sentry fought World War Hulk to a standstill. And an amped Sentry (the amp unlocked his own potential) mirrored the strength of over 100 heroes, with some of the heroes being power houses like the Hulk, Hyperion, Blue Marvel and so on. And as the Void he broke the Hulk on multiple occasions and was in the process of ripping Thor in half.

Superboy-Prime:

Pretty much like Superman, but just stronger. And he too has the benefit of being able to amp his strength with solar radiation.

Honorable mentions:

Darkseid, Doomsday, Lobo, Kurse, Mangog, Odin / Zeus (via magical amp).

Disclaimer:

My arguments are based on characters either having insane power levels by default (Sentry / Plutonian), or being able to amp their strength levels (Hulk, Superboy-Prime).
That's why I wouldn't put characters like Thor, Blue Marvel or Black Adam onto the list, because they are more likely to hit limits sooner than later).

Originally posted by Galan007
Ultraman.

Lifting infinite weight is pretty hard to beat, tbh.

This. Superman and Ultraman are about even.

Wasnt infinite in weight. One punch man and Goku is the strongest in all of fiction. I'm saying One Punchman because of what he have done with just a simple slap and I'm saying Goku because he was moving around comfortably with the weight of a black hole on top of him. That isnt the impressive part though. The impressive part is, he was depleted of power. He also almost destroyed a couple of Universes with his punching power and was shedding planets and Suns

In comics. Hulk is obviously the strongest comic book character.

Originally posted by carver9

He also almost destroyed a couple of Universes with his punching power and was shedding planets and Suns

We're talking about physical strength here, and not some mumbo-jumbo mystical waves, which we could see during the fight between Beerus and Goku.

Even in fiction shockwaves get weaker the further away they travel from the source of impact. In DBZ they were the weakest at the center and got stronger the further away they got. At the center they were laughable compared to comic book characters.
There isn't a single strength-based feat in the Dragonball universe, which puts Dragonball characters on the level of comic book high heralds. Not even a single one. Dragonball characters are known for their KI energy projection. Their strength and durability against physical attacks however... barely low herald level.

Pick Thor. Thor wouldn't be affected by Gokus strength. But on the other hand, Thor would kill Goku with a single, serious Mjolnir smack. You know, the smacks, which destroyed planets and cracked nearby moons, which we could see during Thors fight against Gorr? Goku is not surviving those.

Originally posted by Enzeru
We're talking about physical strength here, and not some mumbo-jumbo mystical waves, which we could see during the fight between Beerus and Goku.

Even in fiction shockwaves get weaker the further away they travel from the source of impact. In DBZ they were the weakest at the center and got stronger the further away they got. At the center they were laughable compared to comic book characters.
There isn't a single strength-based feat in the Dragonball universe, which puts Dragonball characters on the level of comic book high heralds. Not even a single one. Dragonball characters are known for their KI energy projection. Their strength and durability against physical attacks however... barely low herald level.

Pick Thor. Thor wouldn't be affected by Gokus strength. But on the other hand, Thor would kill Goku with a single, serious Mjolnir smack. You know, the smacks, which destroyed planets and cracked nearby moons, which we could see during Thors fight against Gorr? Goku is not surviving those.

No matter how much you want to deny this, the shockwaves generated from Goku and Beerus was enough to shed the Universe. It was their physical power that achieved this. The reason the beginning of the shockwaves wasnt ax destructive was due to plot for Earth being saved from the collision, but, it's a universal ft for Goku and Beerus, no matter how much you dislike it. You wouldnt be arguing against it if it was Sentry. With that said, Goku have Universal PLUS strength.

Also, it takes STRENGTH to move around comfortably inside of a black hole.

Question, can you post a scan of a high Herald generating enough force from the punch that the shockwaves destroys a mountain and shake the planet as a side effect. I'm asking you to show me shockwaves turning a mountain to dust.

Originally posted by Galan007
Ultraman.

Lifting infinite weight is pretty hard to beat, tbh.

one punch man LOL. carver get the **** outta here with that nonsense wank.

goku never destroyed or even came close to destroying a "few universes" or even suns. couldnt even destroy the earth LOL

also, enzeru... its no use, he asked SPECIFICALLY for mountain vaporizing planet shaking attacks. it doesnt matter if you post something orders of magnitude better, if its not SPECIFICALLY what he asked for he will use god tier mental gymnastics to either downplay or ask for something even more specific...

Ok, you all are obviously trolling. My answer to this thread stands. You all can add your character. I'm not adding pages of common sense to prove something against people that have no clue on what they are talking about.

Goku isn't half as strong as Superman. He's mid tier at best. Sorry Carter.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, you all are obviously trolling. My answer to this thread stands. You all can add your character. I'm not adding pages of common sense to prove something against people that have no clue on what they are talking about.

Don't let low-level debaters go under your skin, Carver. XD

SP1M
strange visitor superman
thanos with IG
hercules
atlas
silver surfer
captain marvel
superman
thor
hulk

not so confident of this list though...

Originally posted by Galan007
Ultraman.

Lifting infinite weight is pretty hard to beat, tbh.

./thread

Originally posted by carver9
Wasnt infinite in weight. One punch man and Goku is the strongest in all of fiction. I'm saying One Punchman because of what he have done with just a simple slap and I'm saying Goku because he was moving around comfortably with the weight of a black hole on top of him. That isnt the impressive part though. The impressive part is, he was depleted of power. He also almost destroyed a couple of Universes with his punching power and was shedding planets and Suns

In comics. Hulk is obviously the strongest comic book character.

That wasn't a black hole.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
doubt He or Superman have anything that tops Hulk lifting Exitar. or the weight of a star, or tetcon plates

That's nothing.

https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11131/111311038/5727026-4152041617-26756.jpg

Originally posted by cdtm
That's nothing.

https://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11131/111311038/5727026-4152041617-26756.jpg

Show us what is something

Right, I forgot you're borderline illiterate.



According to the WORDS accompanying the pretty pictures, that is a dwarf star. Mon-El is pushing a white dwarf star.

It's a very famous feat, you're probably seen it posted before.

Originally posted by cdtm
Right, I forgot you're borderline illiterate.



According to the WORDS accompanying the pretty pictures, that is a dwarf star. Mon-El is pushing a white dwarf star.

It's a very famous feat, you're probably seen it posted before.

Drax rips and destroy the heart of a star with ease and before this, he destroys a planet...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/98379/2460300-draxstarbusting.jpg

And that same Drax admits She Hulk is much stronger than him...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111186194/4270811-0+%281%29.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111186194/4270812-0+%282%29.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111186194/4270814-01.png

I dont understand why you even try.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/31423/693935-warlockinfinitywatch130ml2.jpg

I know it's not the same Destroyer, ftr. Not replying to Carv there,

Originally posted by carver9
Show us what is something This is not a feat of Superman

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
This is not a feat of Superman

Wasn't meant to be.

So nothing better than Ultramans infinite weight feat? Wow.

Not better but still pretty amazing:
http://i.imgur.com/qzeZEhW.png

Originally posted by carver9
No matter how much you want to deny this, the shockwaves generated from Goku and Beerus was enough to shed the Universe. It was their physical power that achieved this. The reason the beginning of the shockwaves wasnt ax destructive was due to plot for Earth being saved from the collision, but, it's a universal ft for Goku and Beerus, no matter how much you dislike it. You wouldnt be arguing against it if it was Sentry. With that said, Goku have Universal PLUS strength.

Also, it takes STRENGTH to move around comfortably inside of a black hole.

Question, can you post a scan of a high Herald generating enough force from the punch that the shockwaves destroys a mountain and shake the planet as a side effect. I'm asking you to show me shockwaves turning a mountain to dust. lol. Goku isn't even in the top 100 strongest characters in comics. Hell, there are several manga characters that aren't in dbz that would lay him on his ass. The most impressive thing that dbz characters have is their ki blasts/energy powers. Outside of that, I would hesitate to put Goku's physical strength above mid herald level.

Originally posted by cdtm
Wasn't meant to be. That was silver age Mon El right ?

Goku would punch a hole in 99.9 percent of comics at this stage

Originally posted by deathslash
lol. Goku isn't even in the top 100 strongest characters in comics. Hell, there are several manga characters that aren't in dbz that would lay him on his ass. The most impressive thing that dbz characters have is their ki blasts/energy powers. Outside of that, I would hesitate to put Goku's physical strength above mid herald level.

And this tells me that you are clueless on the character. Like I've said before, I'm not going to sit here and discuss things on a COMIC forum with people who have no idea on what they are talking about. I named my characters so you all should take the time and name who you think is the strongest.

Not a black hole.

Originally posted by carver9
In comics. Hulk is obviously the strongest comic book character.

How is he the strongest?

superman&captain marvel lifted the book of infinite pages(infinity divided by 2 is still infinity).
One of strange visitors thousands of avatars suposedly held up the universe until every single being including the gods died.....Imagine What The Original Would Do.

Originally posted by Inedian
How is he the strongest?

By fts.

Ok so there is really no one who can top Ultramans feat? Wow, not even Supremas?

As for DBZ, yeah their phyiscal strength is in the mid herald range at best, so we can forget those. Saitaman is low to mid herald at the moment.

Strongest Anime char is rather difficult but I would go with Sailor Galaxia, she would shitstomp UI Goku and Saitaman at the same time.

Sigh

One of the original - and best - answers to this question:

7yeA7a0uS3A

...

I dgaf what feats have come along since then. You put He-Man in a comic arm wrestling contest with anyone today, and 90% of writers would write it as at least a stalemate.

I agree with you on the He-Man opinion Digi.

He-Man, Superman, and the Hulk are most certainly in the top 10, because no matter what, they can be written to lift just about anything without anyone pausing to wonder how they did it. It's all a part of their thing.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
So nothing better than Ultramans infinite weight feat? Wow.

Not better but still pretty amazing:
http://i.imgur.com/qzeZEhW.png





Aw, man ...

You posted what I was gonna show in this thread ...

Originally posted by Stoic
I agree with you on the He-Man opinion Digi.

He-Man, Superman, and the Hulk are most certainly in the top 10, because no matter what, they can be written to lift just about anything without anyone pausing to wonder how they did it. It's all a part of their thing.

Yeah, that's the thing: it's comics, so feats are all over the place, and we delusionally try to create some objective scale to questions like this. So whatever writer was on the biggest "who gives af" bender at the time of writing gets the crown, and we get stupidity like functionally infinite strength feats. But as you say, there are a handful like those three who will always be as strong as the writer/story needs them to be, and at the heights of their respective wankage, would be written as a stalemate, or as close to it as possible.

Originally posted by carver9
By fts.

But he isn't, also not by feats.

Carter, regarding Drax.

You're posting two different versions.

Let's just talk finite quantifiable feats.

Prime should be the strongest
Moving a Earth sized planet faster than light in little time is astronomically more than stopping a planet from moving 500,000mph in a few seconds.

For example, if it took Prime 3 seconds to move a planet light speed then that would be a force over 10 million Earth weights.
Remember, Prime relocated a solar system to another many light years away in a brief period. He accelerated these planets far greater than light speed.

Normal Superman has a feat over 50 Earth Weights.
Hulk doesn't have any that's at least an Earth weight (except WBH).

When did Prime move planets faster than light?

Originally posted by h1a8
Let's just talk finite quantifiable feats.

Prime should be the strongest
Moving a Earth sized planet faster than light in little time is astronomically more than stopping a planet from moving 500,000mph in a few seconds.

For example, if it took Prime 3 seconds to move a planet light speed then that would be a force over 10 million Earth weights.
Remember, Prime relocated a solar system to another many light years away in a brief period. He accelerated these planets far greater than light speed.

Normal Superman has a feat over 50 Earth Weights.
Hulk doesn't have any that's at least an Earth weight (except WBH).



has prime appeared in the new continuity?

Originally posted by carver9
When did Prime move planets faster than light?

In the same comic Wolverines claws could slice atoms.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In the same comic Wolverines claws could slice atoms.

Is Wolverine in this thread? Stay on track please.

@H1...

So you're taking that sentence as him moving a planet across the Universe?

@H1...

So where are you getting the FTL showing from?

Originally posted by h1a8

Moving a Earth sized planet faster than light in little time is astronomically more than stopping a planet from moving 500,000mph in a few seconds.

That's not how space works, you math genius.
In space you can give an object a slight push and it will continue to float until it hits something. Strength behaves differently at that point.

If Prime has the strength to move a planet out of its orbit, then nothing else is relevant really. At that point Prime was pretty much only flying at speeds faster than light and directing the planet. An example on Earth would be like bringing a big, heavy ball of steel in motion with strength and then just continuing to roll it down hill.

Swap that instance and you have what Hyperion did. Hyperions showing is more impressive, but even his showing is rather wonky, due to how physics work in space.

Originally posted by KidStranglehold
@Enzeru

Wait WTF!?? I skipped out on DBZ Resurrection. But you're telling me that SS God Vegeta died of a planet explosion? God damn is DB inconsistent as *&^%...

Yeah:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8YcvUXqRCk

Dragonball characters don't really have planetary level durability. And most of them can't even breathe in space. That's a clip of Vegeta dying from a planetary level explosion. Another character then reverts time and saves the Earth and Vegeta in process.

That's why I always say: Someone like Superman could solo the entire Dragonball universe, while holding back. Okay, maybe not that much, because Dragonball does have a couple of reality warping super-gods, but the regular warriors, you see duke it out all the time... All canon fodder for comic book high heralds.

Unless you're n00b SSG Goku, who WAS able to survive in space(that's where he fought Beerus, ffs) in the original BoG movie, AND the DBS retelling, AND the manga.

Such a stupid inconsistency, tbh.

Originally posted by Galan007
Unless you're n00b SSG Goku, who WAS able to survive in space(that's where he fought Beerus, ffs) in the original BoG movie, AND the DBS retelling, AND the manga.

Such a stupid inconsistency, tbh. Yeah. They say stratosphere but I mean look at how far they were up... it would have been funny to see them go to the moon and then still maintain Vegeta can't breath in space

Someone should send Toriyama a big old space battle and tell him how little backdrop they'd need. Toei would love that. Stormbreaker would be a good start.

Originally posted by One Big Mob

He can't breath in space. A weakened 4th form Frieza survived it while a Full Powered Vegeta Blue didn't, which means it wasn't the planet exploding, but the lack of oxygen.

There is such a thing like flying away before the planet fully explodes.
If Majin Boo died in the explosion, how come a weakened 4th form Frieza survived it?

Basically trying to make arguments that some characters had the durability to survive it, but died due to the lack of oxygen... is kinda reaching, since we never saw any corpses and the survivors never attempted to get Vegeta, before he suffocates (assuming, that saiyans deal with the pressure better than regular humans - which they most likely do).

Originally posted by Galan007

Unless you're n00b SSG Goku, who WAS able to survive in space(that's where he fought Beerus, ffs) in the original BoG movie, AND the DBS retelling, AND the manga.

Such a stupid inconsistency, tbh.

Toriyama stated, that they were fighting in the stratosphere, where there is still air.

Originally posted by Enzeru
There is such a thing like flying away before the planet fully explodes.
If Majin Boo died in the explosion, how come a weakened 4th form Frieza survived it?

Basically trying to make arguments that some characters had the durability to survive it, but died due to the lack of oxygen... is kinda reaching, since we never saw any corpses and the survivors never attempted to get Vegeta, before he suffocates (assuming, that saiyans deal with the pressure better than regular humans - which they most likely do).



Toriyama stated, that they were fighting in the stratosphere, where there is still air. Because Frieza could barely stand at the time, and it's unlikely he got away before Vegeta could... not to mention he survived a planet blowing up on him while half a corpse before. Pretty likely the lack of air was the killer without going to find a direct quote.

Frieza was more than likely above Buuhan even in that weakened stage anyway. Plus Buu was sleeping and had it actually been covered, would have reformed anyway. Nobody cares enough about Buu to be like "Our entire families are dead, but oh no, also Buu is dead!"

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Yeah. They say stratosphere but I mean look at how far they were up... I know the manga says stratosphere, but mother of god...

Originally posted by carver9
It was said in a canon bio that Cell would have wiped the solar system clean with his blast.

Nothing hinted at the Universe being destroyed? Are you trolling? We see suns and planets evaporating from far distances. The Universe was threatened during their scuffle.
Any on panel proof?

@JL King...

So collateral damage is the way we debate? Frieza only using .025% of his power destroyed a planet bigger than earth with a finger. Are you saying the Kameha blast was weaker than that even though the blast didn't spread? Its 2018 and you all still debate collateral damage from beings who have complete control of their power. Does this apply to all characters or just DBZ? Example, Galactus exerts his energy like he has never done before and didn't destroy the room they were standing in...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0953e52c8b4af17e1049d9cff3d8c13e-c

I can keep going with this but I'm hoping you're getting the point. Now again, does this apply only to DBZ or everyone?

C6liGqolaa8

Can shake an infinite void.

Lost to small arms fire.

Originally posted by carver9
@JL King...

So collateral damage is the way we debate? Frieza only using .025% of his power destroyed a planet bigger than earth with a finger. Are you saying the Kameha blast was weaker than that even though the blast didn't spread? Its 2018 and you all still debate collateral damage from beings who have complete control of their power. Does this apply to all characters or just DBZ? Example, Galactus exerts his energy like he has never done before and didn't destroy the room they were standing in...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0953e52c8b4af17e1049d9cff3d8c13e-c

I can keep going with this but I'm hoping you're getting the point. Now again, does this apply only to DBZ or everyone?

Dragon Ball characters are obviously weak against bricks.

Originally posted by carver9

It was said in a canon bio that Cell would have wiped the solar system clean with his blast.

Get the hell out of here, you fanboi.

Your solar system buster needed an entire minute to power up to a point, where he could destroy Earth. And then he died in process. Lucky for him he found out that he could regenerate from a single cell.

Broly is my favorite anime character. I grew up watching Dragonball and I like it as the next normal person, but let's be honest here... Someone like Superman would punch a hole through Brolys chest.
Broly doesn't have the durability and outside space cheese feats (destroying random ass planets) he doesn't have the damage output to put a high herald down. If Broly had actual power he would have destroyed Earth easily and immediately, while fighting the DBZ warriors during the second movie. But that's where a Dragonball fanboi like you comes in and starts talking about plot this and plot that.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Any on panel proof?

Why do I need to provide on panel proof when the bio clearly tells us enough?

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Yeah. They say stratosphere but I mean look at how far they were up... it would have been funny to see them go to the moon and then still maintain Vegeta can't breath in space

Someone should send Toriyama a big old space battle and tell him how little backdrop they'd need. Toei would love that. Stormbreaker would be a good start.

Sure looked that way.

Didn't they outright say they can't breath in space, at a later story?

Originally posted by carver9
@H1...

So where are you getting the FTL showing from?

So if you move a planet to another galaxy like one moves a chess piece then how is the planet not going ftl?

Also moving a planet under the speed of light would mean that Prime is immortal and has lived for billions of years.

And I'm not saying they can destroy millions of planets with one attack. I'm saying that they are millions of times stronger than characters who have destroyed a planet. A difference.

They've surpassed planet planet destroying far enough that we don't assume the planet destroying would kill them. Plus the universal statements, and it seems pretty obvious they operate above that level.

If they destroy a planet with a casual attack and only destroy a house with a full power attack, we'd assume the full power attack is more powerful, no? And that's how you have to look at DB. Unless we get specific statements, the attacks operate on the damage scope of a small land mass, maybe yard sized. Scope is meaningless in the series for 99 percent of the time... how unlike comics though

Oddly enough though, they are casually destroying an entire land mass of an upgraded form of something previously thought unbreakable in Z. Hell it even broke the Z Sword. So yeah. Though I'm sure this drives Galan up a wall

Beerus stood still in a planets annihilation having a conversation with Whis while the planet was exploding on him and Goku by the end of DBS is more powerful than him.

@JL King...

So you're asking me to show you the Z fighters destroying a solar system during a fight? I need you to THINK about what you are asking me. No villain minus Cell tried to destroy anything other than the planet, so I cant show you what youre asking for. I can show you that bio though,and, its canon. You cant argue against canon. Sorry.

I want to see Wolverines claws slicing atoms. The thread where I ask this is not being seen.

yo carver! did you see the new avengers movie? did you see thanos vs hulk fight? what do you think about that???

Originally posted by One Big Mob
And yet Master Roshi can destroy a moon. You ever wonder if those characters have enough control of their powers to not destroy everything around them?

You're saying this on board that will still likely go nuts in a "can Superman destroy a planet" thread.

They don't have to destroy one in every attack.


https://imgur.com/8uCRRB0
https://imgur.com/uKaTMwi

There's also Whis stating Beerus originally thought it was only going to annihilate Earth and a few neighboring planets, but Beerus was wrong and it was going to destroy the world itself and Whis can't defend against a world destroying attack. Which we would assume wouldn't actually be speaking of a world since even Goku deflected one against Vegeta. And Frieza kicked one away against Vegeta. Especially the first part. But you know, I understand this will be a tough concept.
Either way, the ante was upped from the punches especially when Beerus had to use "100 percent" of his power to negate it.

And you expecting universes to be destroyed in a series specifically devoid of universes and without the plot devices of comics (which is ironic considering the series is named after wishing orbs), or else it doesn't count is asking a lot. We have statements however, and things leading up to those examples. Which is where we'll lead off into with Cell.

Cell's only ever destroyed King Kai's planet. That doesn't mean we ignore things like beings thousands of times less powerful destroying planets. It's really not that large of a leap to take. But I'll let Galan explain it.




Because they literally can't breath in space. It's not a tough concept to grasp. Even a severely weakened Frieza who was cut in half and blasted by Goku who is possibly millions of times less powerful than Vegeta blue survived a planet exploding. Frieza was capable of annihilating planets yet he couldn't kill SS Goku. Beerus could destroy half a planet with a finger tap, yet he wasn't killing Goku with more. The power of a planet destroying power has largely been rendered insufficient. We assume he died from lack of oxygen because that's what happened.
I really don't want to get screens of a scene that I'm 98 percent sure says that a weakened Frieza survived but not a fp Vegeta because Frieza can survive in space.

Yes, why would characters that could destroy planets when they were millions of times weaker ever be compared to heralds? You realize the guy who has survived numerous planets being destroyed is weaker than Goku and Vegeta right?

Nobody can "breathe in space" there is no gaz ffs...

Originally posted by Dareangel
yo carver! did you see the new avengers movie? did you see thanos vs hulk fight? what do you think about that???

Obvious trolling is obvious. Stay tf on topic.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
And yet Master Roshi can destroy a moon. You ever wonder if those characters have enough control of their powers to not destroy everything around them?

You're saying this on board that will still likely go nuts in a "can Superman destroy a planet" thread.

They don't have to destroy one in every attack.


https://imgur.com/8uCRRB0
https://imgur.com/uKaTMwi

There's also Whis stating Beerus originally thought it was only going to annihilate Earth and a few neighboring planets, but Beerus was wrong and it was going to destroy the world itself and Whis can't defend against a world destroying attack. Which we would assume wouldn't actually be speaking of a world since even Goku deflected one against Vegeta. And Frieza kicked one away against Vegeta. Especially the first part. But you know, I understand this will be a tough concept.
Either way, the ante was upped from the punches especially when Beerus had to use "100 percent" of his power to negate it.

And you expecting universes to be destroyed in a series specifically devoid of universes and without the plot devices of comics (which is ironic considering the series is named after wishing orbs), or else it doesn't count is asking a lot. We have statements however, and things leading up to those examples. Which is where we'll lead off into with Cell.

Cell's only ever destroyed King Kai's planet. That doesn't mean we ignore things like beings thousands of times less powerful destroying planets. It's really not that large of a leap to take. But I'll let Galan explain it.




Because they literally can't breath in space. It's not a tough concept to grasp. Even a severely weakened Frieza who was cut in half and blasted by Goku who is possibly millions of times less powerful than Vegeta blue survived a planet exploding. Frieza was capable of annihilating planets yet he couldn't kill SS Goku. Beerus could destroy half a planet with a finger tap, yet he wasn't killing Goku with more. The power of a planet destroying power has largely been rendered insufficient. We assume he died from lack of oxygen because that's what happened.
I really don't want to get screens of a scene that I'm 98 percent sure says that a weakened Frieza survived but not a fp Vegeta because Frieza can survive in space.

Yes, why would characters that could destroy planets when they were millions of times weaker ever be compared to heralds? You realize the guy who has survived numerous planets being destroyed is weaker than Goku and Vegeta right?

Oh yeah, I'm in total agreement that collateral damage isn't the be all, end all. Did In Betweener and a fed Galactus even destroy the planet they were knocking each other into?

Otoh, power scaling is pretty difficult without really knowing what it means. And being much, much stronger then planet busting...?

Well, Silve Surfer created black holes, holding back. He's evolved an entire planet over a short time, and creation usually takes a lot more energy then destruction.

I bet he could waste a solar system or more, if he really wanted to.

Same with someone like Thor or Hulk.. They may not have many star system busting feats, but what they do have is no less impressive..

Originally posted by cdtm
Oh yeah, I'm in total agreement that collateral damage isn't the be all, end all. Did In Betweener and a fed Galactus even destroy the planet they were knocking each other into?

Otoh, power scaling is pretty difficult without really knowing what it means. And being much, much stronger then planet busting...?

Well, Silve Surfer created black holes, holding back. He's evolved an entire planet over a short time, and creation usually takes a lot more energy then destruction.

I bet he could waste a solar system or more, if he really wanted to.

Same with someone like Thor or Hulk.. They may not have many star system busting feats, but what they do have is no less impressive.. Being that much above planet busting means it's a non issue. It means that simply being planet busting in capabilities is meaningless. So much so that it'd be pointless to bring up. For example both Saiyan saga Vegeta and Blue2 Vegeta have only ever said to destroy a planet (well, not Blue2). The former took an attack directly capable of destroying a planet. The latter has only defeated someone capable of thumb flicking an attack through a planet destroyer.
With the disparity of power on display between the two, an attack simply capable at the bare minimum of destroying a planet should bounce off Blue2's eyelids. Yet an attack from Blue2 that only has the scope to destroy a planet would pack a hell of a lot more power.

And whatever solar system busting means in raw power, that became the bare minimum of power. For a collateral damage fan like youŕ average comic fan, that's a pretty important distinction.

Collateral damage is good up to a point to show said scope. Beyond that it gets ridiculous to bring up. Especially when the beings are millions of times more powerful. Though it is important to point out when people are assuming that beings who can't breath in space died from said planet blowing up.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Being that much above planet busting means it's a non issue. It means that simply being planet busting in capabilities is meaningless. So much so that it'd be pointless to bring up. For example both Saiyan saga Vegeta and Blue2 Vegeta have only ever said to destroy a planet (well, not Blue2). The former took an attack directly capable of destroying a planet. The latter has only defeated someone capable of thumb flicking an attack through a planet destroyer.
With the disparity of power on display between the two, an attack simply capable at the bare minimum of destroying a planet should bounce off Blue2's eyelids. Yet an attack from Blue2 that only has the scope to destroy a planet would pack a hell of a lot more power.

And whatever solar system busting means in raw power, that became the bare minimum of power. For a collateral damage fan like youŕ average comic fan, that's a pretty important distinction.

Collateral damage is good up to a point to show said scope. Beyond that it gets ridiculous to bring up. Especially when the beings are millions of times more powerful. Though it is important to point out when people are assuming that beings who can't breath in space died from said planet blowing up.

Non issue how? In the sense that nickling and diming past a certain point becomes like measuring bullet time feats on CBR, where Cassandra Cain blitz's Shiva because one Matrix Stepped bullets and the other didn't?

Originally posted by cdtm
Non issue how? In the sense that nickling and diming past a certain point becomes like measuring bullet time feats on CBR, where Cassandra Cain blitz's Shiva because one Matrix Stepped bullets and the other didn't?

Prove that Thor, Superman, and Orion have planet busting strength. Prove that Darkseid can even destroy a city with a punch (pre DCNU Darkseid).
Prove that Orion have anything close to planet busting, hell, city busting strength. Do the same for Captain Marvel please. Also prove that Black Adam have anything on or greater than planet busting power. I'll wait.

Add Zod, Mongul and Doomsday to this list as well.

Originally posted by cdtm
Non issue how? In the sense that nickling and diming past a certain point becomes like measuring bullet time feats on CBR, where Cassandra Cain blitz's Shiva because one Matrix Stepped bullets and the other didn't? Because no one cares about the potency of a planet destroying attacks anymore nor should a planet blowing up murder these characters. Anyone that cared in the first place like Carver wants them to step it up. And anyone who doesn't give it too much thought just wants the attack to be strong enough to damage the character and kill Gohan 10 times over. They do a decent job of portraying the danger for me. Carver is going in a madhouse waiting for the next scope feat however.

I would like them to be able to breath in space however. A different change of scenery is always nice and it gets rid of pretending to care about destroying Earth and everyone around. They either need to start having snowfights or spacefights because they've done everything else

Originally posted by carver9
Prove that Thor, Superman, and Orion have planet busting strength. Prove that Darkseid can even destroy a city with a punch (pre DCNU Darkseid).
Prove that Orion have anything close to planet busting, hell, city busting strength. Do the same for Captain Marvel please. Also prove that Black Adam have anything on or greater than planet busting power. I'll wait.

Add Zod, Mongul and Doomsday to this list as well.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, Wolverine claws are unique. Wolverine claws have been described as being able to slice an atom in half.

Prove it.

Seems pretty obvious that Corver is thinking about Carvus Glaive
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111184849/4831070-4823683-hulkproxima2.jpg


The closest I can think of is them speaking of Wolverine's skeleton being bonded on a molecular level, and the old forum myth (?) about Wolverine's claws being molecularly sharp

Wait a minute. Darksaint, did you really follow me here in regards to my Wolverine comment? Lol... I have major respect for you because that requires a lot of dedication. In regards to the scan you are asking for, I dont have it.

Originally posted by carver9
Wait a minute. Darksaint, did you really follow me here in regards to my Wolverine comment? Lol... I have major respect for you because that requires a lot of dedication. In regards to the scan you are asking for, I dont have it.

You made it up.

Just like you make up half of the stuff you post, if not more.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Because no one cares about the potency of a planet destroying attacks anymore nor should a planet blowing up murder these characters. Anyone that cared in the first place like Carver wants them to step it up. And anyone who doesn't give it too much thought just wants the attack to be strong enough to damage the character and kill Gohan 10 times over. They do a decent job of portraying the danger for me. Carver is going in a madhouse waiting for the next scope feat however.

I would like them to be able to breath in space however. A different change of scenery is always nice and it gets rid of pretending to care about destroying Earth and everyone around. They either need to start having snowfights or spacefights because they've done everything else

Or at least be able to hold their breath for awhile, like Byrne Superman did it.

I mean, even He-Man can hold his breath for most of an episode, and She-Ra climbed a rope into orbit. The Z crew would need decent lung capacity for those 15 minute screams.

Go away, cd. We're lecturing carver atm and you're interrupting.

...

You can join

Carver, it's time we talkee about your drinking.

You need to start doing it. A lot.

Originally posted by cdtm
Carver, it's time we talkee about your drinking.

You need to start doing it. A lot.



And I think carver should start right away from methyl alcohol...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


And I think carver should start right away from methyl alcohol...

If he'd just drink more, than maybe, just MAYBE, we.can.drink.less.

I agree. There's a small chance it could help us...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You made it up.

Just like you make up half of the stuff you post, if not more.

Nope, not a makeup. This proves that I know more about Wolverine than you do.

Anyways, everything I say, I usually have scans for it but this time I dont and no, I'm not becoming a drunk. I love my liver.

H1, I am about to send you something and I would like to hear your opinion on it.

@JL King...

Wait a minute, you brought up fts and then under the same breath mention they are limited to planetary. How could that be the case for any of the Z fighters when none of them haven't destroyed anything close to a city? That's if we use nothing but fts. Unless you know of something I am unaware of, have they even destroyed a city? Wouldn't Frieza be more powerful in his first form than all of the Z fighters combined AND Whis as well since again, fts is what matters? Answer this, Frieza was able to survive a planet exploding on him while cut in half but Trunks was able to turn Frieza into ashes with a blast that didn't even graze the dirt up under him. Which one is more powerful, the blast that turned Frieza into dust but did no collateral damage or the planet explosion that Frieza survived?

Again, dont forget to tell me why Goku is even mountain level.

Originally posted by carver9
Nope, not a makeup. This proves that I know more about Wolverine than you do.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114841/3672908-4511454731-36534.gif

Originally posted by carver9
Anyways, everything I say, I usually have scans for it but this time I dont and no, I'm not becoming a drunk. I love my liver.

Nobody demands scans from you.

If you don't know the exact issue number, then tell me the book name at least.

And for the record, I know such issue doesn't exist, since you're a compulsive liar.

Ok

This thread is almost popcorn worthy

Originally posted by carver9
Ok

Don't "ok" me, carv.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/l0MYQHkVjWEH7N3ig/200.gif

I admire Bran patience because i realized that when people on KMC have their minds made up, it is next to impossible to change it.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Don't "ok" me, carv.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/l0MYQHkVjWEH7N3ig/200.gif

Lol.

Carter is just straight savaging these guys.

JL King...

Since collateral damage is your thing, here we have Frieza surviving a planet exploding on top of him while hurt...

92uetQySi2U

And here Goku kills the same Frieza with a blast that doesn't even cause a dent in the planet at the area it is shot at...

OJY_AFYn5rA

Doesn't even cause enough collateral damage to take out a small town. Which one is more powerful? I cant believe I am having this kind of debate against seasoned members. I'm still waiting on my Orion answer.

Blue, here is the ft in question. Share your thoughts on it...

bW2c3_PyW3Q

Waves get stronger as they travel outwards.

All that proves is Toriyama doesn't understand physics. May as well use Edward Elric using a tiny little umbrella to perfectly block a fire hoses worth of refined fake philosophers stone.

Originally posted by carver9
Blue, here is the ft in question. Share your thoughts on it...

bW2c3_PyW3Q



Superficially looks like the feat where WorldBreaker Hulk and "WishingWelled"Red She-Hulk collided with one another and destroyed a planet or planets and/or more in Umar's Dark Dimension.


The peculiar trait of the shockwave getting MORE powerful as it travelled away from Beerus and Goku, however, makes me think the writer modeled this with the concepts of either electromagnetism or of atomic orbitals in mind.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Superficially looks like the feat where WorldBreaker Hulk and "WishingWelled"Red She-Hulk collided with one another and destroyed a planet or planets and/or more in Umar's Dark Dimension.


The peculiar trait of the shockwave getting MORE powerful as it travelled away from Beerus and Goku, however, makes me think the writer modeled this with the concepts of either electromagnetism or of atomic orbitals in mind.


It also seems like the mechanics of this ft is to protect earth since earth was literally right there during their clash. Would you call it a strength ft or would you consider it something else?

Originally posted by carver9
It also seems like the mechanics of this ft is to protect earth since earth was literally right there during their clash. Would you call it a strength ft or would you consider it something else?



I'm not a regular watcher of DBZ, though I've seen numerous clips.

Ultimately I'd have to call physics effects THAT singular something other than JUST physical strength.

Physical strength plus insane martial arts skill CAN, apparently, allow a practitioner to select where the force of a blow causes or does not cause great damage, though.

The following, obnoxious music and all, is a decent, if not preferred, illustration of the above:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQAfDXrvRpQ

If you want to make the case that Saiyans can make themselves physically stronger through chi/training/transformations etcetera, the episode where Trunks makes himself capable of performing in the heavy gravity training room of his father, Vegeta, might be a good place to start:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zZawRtkgFCE

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm not a regular watcher of DBZ, though I've seen numerous clips.

Ultimately I'd have to call physics effects THAT singular something other than JUST physical strength.

Physical strength plus insane martial arts skill CAN, apparently, allow a practitioner to select where the force of a blow causes or does not cause great damage, though.

The following, obnoxious music and all, is a decent, if not preferred, illustration of the above:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQAfDXrvRpQ

I agree.

Supergirl would beat both Beerus and Goku, with ease.

How?

are we still fellating DB or are you all done?

Originally posted by krisblaze
How?

Reported.

Originally posted by cdtm
Reported.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm not a regular watcher of DBZ, though I've seen numerous clips.

Ultimately I'd have to call physics effects THAT singular something other than JUST physical strength.

Physical strength plus insane martial arts skill CAN, apparently, allow a practitioner to select where the force of a blow causes or does not cause great damage, though.

The following, obnoxious music and all, is a decent, if not preferred, illustration of the above:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQAfDXrvRpQ

What tier of character do you think could replicate the showing?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm not a regular watcher of DBZ, though I've seen numerous clips.

Ultimately I'd have to call physics effects THAT singular something other than JUST physical strength.

Physical strength plus insane martial arts skill CAN, apparently, allow a practitioner to select where the force of a blow causes or does not cause great damage, though.

The following, obnoxious music and all, is a decent, if not preferred, illustration of the above:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQAfDXrvRpQ

I think that is fake (bricks are rigged). He never showed the bricks before he broke them. And nice try putting a bible on top to make us think you are so honest lol.

Originally posted by h1a8
I think that is fake (bricks are rigged). He never showed the bricks before he broke them. And nice try putting a bible on top to make us think you are so honest lol.


Can't be 100% sure from your language, but:



1. That is not me shown in that video.

2. I'm generally a skeptical person myself, so I look for things that are hard to fake or where people have little incentive to fake and/or where people have known and proven track records, so I can appreciate where you're coming from.

I would trust either of the following more than showings with standard-looking weights or professional Hollywood photography for instance:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uTJKBC1bX5U

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HDVCKEPg85I

3. I doubt the showing is fake, simply because of the number of official ISKA "creative breaking" programs I've seen, coupled with vids discussing the physics of breaking, stress lines, etcetera.

4. In regards to this thread, although it's great to have a real world parallel for illustration, what matters is if writers BELIEVE martial arts can enable beings to do stuff like that with proper training, or at least are writing a fiction where they can do such things. The Legion of Super-Heroes character Karate Kid, pre OR post-Crisis, makes particularly good demonstrations of targeted/sparing destructive force:


https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38513995_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38513996_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38513997_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38513998_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38513999_image.jpg

Source: Legion of Super-Heroes #6, Volume 5
Circa: July 2005

Originally posted by carver9
What tier of character do you think could replicate the (Beerus/Goku residual annihilation wave punch) showing?

KMC would probably peg that somewhere at or above the level of pre-Crisis Kryptonians. Definitely reminds me of the kind of reality warping shenanigans the Bronze and Silver Ages were known for:



https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38514001_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38514002_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38514003_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38514004_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38514005_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38514006_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38514007_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38514008_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38514009_image.jpg

Source: Superman Family #190
Circa: August 1978