My Xmen vs JLA

One Big Mob

Originally posted by Stoic
That really doesn't mean that it would happen in an actual comic book right? If Thor was a member of the JLA he would go down as being one of their most powerful members ever. I think that the Juggernaut is being played down on this forum as well when you consider that at his best he could takes hit's from high class 100's as if he was barely touched, if at all. The JL may win this, but it's hardly as one sided as some may believe imo. Juggernaut is a toughy no doubt about that, but he's not an indestructible toughy. That's an important distinction considering that almost his sole avenues of attacks are "walk into my toughy punches".

He should be considered more of a toughy than Superman. But what he should not be is considered tough to the point of invincible to the levels of attacks here. However long it takes, some of the characters here have more than enough gusto to tough his lights out. Maybe he toughs out an attack that would KO Thor tens times over, but eventually it's going to accumulate past his toughness and he'll be all toughed out.

At best he's a perpetual stalemate for one of these toughies. At worst he gets whipped across the battlefield while they team up and force one of these pussies to tough it out two on one against some JLA members.

Him going shot for shot with Superman is different than him being a slow toughy against full power Superman. Even ignoring speed, Superman has the toughness to seperate Juggernaut from consciousness. Again, maybe not instantly, but they're going to add up, and Toughernaut will be sleep

The difference between Juggernaut and the DC bricks you're likely thinking of to contrast the two, is that those DC bricks are arguably stronger than Superman, and they have some degree of superspeed. Juggernaut is not and does not outside very few showings. He'll just be some tough swinging dick here swatting at people on or above his level of strength.
His toughness is offset by his underwhelming strength in comparison. I'd wager that it'd take a comparable number of shots from him to KO Superman as it would for Superman to KO Toughernaut. And that's being fair to him, and it's a lot more likely for Superman to land those shots. Even if you double the amount for Superman. Times it by 10 for that matter.

His tough runs out here. He might knock out Martian Manhunter though.

carver9

A lot of people is missing a huge factor in this fight that the JLA have to cope with while fighting other members of the Xmen. Think about it for a second.

riv6672

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
A lot of people is missing a huge factor in this fight that the JLA have to cope with while fighting other members of the Xmen. Think about it for a second.

You left BFR on, which means even the physically weakest on the JLA team (Flash) is able to IMP Juggernaut and BFR him? I agree.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You left BFR on, which means even the physically weakest on the JLA team (Flash) is able to IMP Juggernaut and BFR him? I agree.

Flash imp is weak if we use on panel showings. Him knocking out mushy people doesn't mean he would send Juggy flying. With that said, like I said before, one important factor here is missing in you alls debate.

DarkSaint85

I'm not talking about a KO.

I'm talking about sending him flying. When he did it to the Martian (someone who has flight) he sent him to Africa, lol.

Juggy is sent into orbit. In the first milisecond.

So numbers advantage go to JLA thumb up

Baziemarc123

Who in the JL have actually shown countering Magneto abilities?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Who in the JL have actually shown countering Magneto abilities?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113932/3456395-8681486931-Magne.jpg

A flying speedster who is nowhere near the JLA in speed......lands three (more?) clean hits on Magneto.

He then grabs Northstar of course - not denying that. But three punches - now imagine they are three Superman level punches. Or WW. MM. Even GL/Aquaman.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Who in the JL have actually shown countering Magneto abilities?

Also:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111275914/5050280-3383766178-25682.jpg

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113932/3456395-8681486931-Magne.jpg

A flying speedster who is nowhere near the JLA in speed......lands three (more?) clean hits on Magneto.

He then grabs Northstar of course - not denying that. But three punches - now imagine they are three Superman level punches. Or WW. MM. Even GL/Aquaman.

Pos the scan after that. Magneto grabbed him when he wanted to grab him.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm not talking about a KO.

I'm talking about sending him flying. When he did it to the Martian (someone who has flight) he sent him to Africa, lol.

Juggy is sent into orbit. In the first milisecond.

So numbers advantage go to JLA thumb up

The Martian isnt anywhere CLOSE to being as physical resistant as Juggernaut.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Pos the scan after that. Magneto grabbed him when he wanted to grab him.

Like I said in my post, Mags grabbed him, no doubt and no denying it.

AT ALL.

But my post still stands. A flying speedster landed three clean hits. Imagine if it were someone like WW. Someone who is faster, and DEFINITELY stronger.

Originally posted by carver9
The Martian isnt anywhere CLOSE to being as physical resistant as Juggernaut.

NOT MY POINT.

Who cares if he is or not? Doesn't have to be KOed or even scratched. Not much he can do in Africa or wherever.

carver9

What I am saying is, he wouldnt be able to even lift Juggernaut off of the ground with those soft punches.

You're missing the point about the Magneto scan. When he was ready to grab him, he did it which tells us he could have countered the initial attack if he wanted. This means your scan was irrelevant.

Baziemarc123

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113932/3456395-8681486931-Magne.jpg

A flying speedster who is nowhere near the JLA in speed......lands three (more?) clean hits on Magneto.

He then grabs Northstar of course - not denying that. But three punches - now imagine they are three Superman level punches. Or WW. MM. Even GL/Aquaman.

we've seen what Dr light who's similar in powerset to magneto and inferior do to Supes, and the JL, even Dr Polaris has managed to take control over the rings before

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
What I am saying is, he wouldnt be able to even lift Juggernaut off of the ground with those soft punches.

You're missing the point about the Magneto scan. When he was ready to grab him, he did it which tells us he could have countered the initial attack if he wanted. This means your scan was irrelevant.

How much does Juggy weigh?

So your point is that Mags is fast enough to outspeed WW's reflexes? If she attempts to blitz him with her battle-honed fight reflexes, he can counter?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
we've seen what Dr light who's similar in powerset to magneto and inferior do to Supes, and the JL, even Dr Polaris has managed to take control over the rings before

GL's ring isn't magnetic anymore, lol.

Baziemarc123

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
GL's ring isn't magnetic anymore, lol.

Yes they are

One Big Mob

Wonder Woman would run right into a shield and get destroyed by half the things she wears or uses being metal.

It'd be like Stilt-Man in a workplace of ladies levels of bad.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Yes they are

Please stop.

Hal Jordans ring is made of his own will power.

Baziemarc123

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Please stop.

Hal Jordans ring is made of his own will power.

first issue of Hal Jordan And The Green Lantern Corps disagrees with you. Hal created a HARD LIGHT metal, shaped it with blacksmith tools, and boom a new ring in that comic

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How much does Juggy weigh?

So your point is that Mags is fast enough to outspeed WW's reflexes? If she attempts to blitz him with her battle-honed fight reflexes, he can counter?

So I can punch Superman off of his feet? I am trying to figure out why you are asking me Juggernaut weight.

Nope; I do think he is fast enough to put a shield up.

One Big Mob

I don't think you could punch a 220 pound dude off their feet

I've always seen you more as a stabber than a puncher for whatever reason

carver9

Originally posted by One Big Mob
I don't think you could punch a 220 pound dude off their feet

I've always seen you more as a stabber than a puncher for whatever reason

laughing out loud

Are you implying I am a serial killer?

-Pr-

Metal =/= magnetic.

Baziemarc123

Originally posted by -Pr-
Metal =/= magnetic.

Magneto controls metal, i thought this was common lore?

-Pr-

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Magneto controls metal, i thought this was common lore?

It is, but there seemed to be some argument as to whether a GL ring was magnetic. The argument that being metal is enough to be magnetic is a bad one to make.

Whether the GL ring is metal at all seems to be the better debate, though most of the League have fought Doctor Polaris before and fared relatively well against him, so Magneto's impact is up for debate, in all fairness.

DarkSaint85

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/hal-jordan-crafts-his-own-green-lantern-ring-4.jpg

It's not made from metal, anyway.

-Pr-

Baziemarc123

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/hal-jordan-crafts-his-own-green-lantern-ring-4.jpg

It's not made from metal, anyway.

I mean there's the infamous reality warper Proteus feat of Magneto

and Dr Light had no trouble having control over the rings

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
I mean there's the infamous reality warper Proteus feat of Magneto

and Dr Light had no trouble having control over the rings

Wait, were you trying to mislead earlier??

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
first issue of Hal Jordan And The Green Lantern Corps disagrees with you. Hal created a HARD LIGHT metal, shaped it with blacksmith tools, and boom a new ring in that comic

Where does it say hard light metal??

Proteus isn't as fast as Superman.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11130/111303655/6387406-0285412357-4HGEf.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11130/111303655/6387408-4788407370-rware.jpg

Baziemarc123

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
a hypersonic feat?

An attosecond feat.

IF you read it properly, he goes BEYOND hypersonic.

FIRST Supersonic.

THEN Hypersonic.

THEN beyond.

Edit: not that X-man couldn't cancel it out. Am just pointing out that MAgneto is the least of their worries.

Baziemarc123

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
An attosecond feat.

IF you read it properly, he goes BEYOND hypersonic.

FIRST Supersonic.

THEN Hypersonic.

THEN beyond.

Edit: not that X-man couldn't cancel it out. Am just pointing out that MAgneto is the least of their worries.

Mags was able to lock onto Kitty Pryde's unique EM signature even though she was inside of an Intergalactic Bullet that was moving in hyperspace (which is WAAAAAAAAAAY faster than MMMMMMFTL.) at least a galaxy away. He did this before the High Evolutionary's long range scanners/sensors even sensed the bullet.:

https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/magnetoredemption30.jpg

at base levels, Mag's reaction time is 15Xs faster than a Normal Human. By tapping into magnetic fields, he can amp this to well over a million Xs faster. Stark learned this the hard way when he used millions of magnets against Magneto. Here's the scan where his reaction time/thought process time was amped up over 100,000Xs faster

https://imgur.com/rjDk5zN

that feat of Superman is nowhere near lightspeed. - I've calced it out, and while it is FAST (stupidly, ridiculously fast), one could do it considerably under lightspeed. Like, a lot.

What makes me laugh in that scan you have above is Clark talking about it buying her an Attosecond. Clearly the writer has no idea how minute amount of time an attosecond is. It's stupid, because the bullet is basically frozen if we're counting Attoseconds (and will be frozen, essentially without getting anywhere, since it is travelling roughly 2.8E-13 MILLIMETERS in an attosecond, which means if it's 5mm to her skull out of the barrel of the gun (I think it's 10mm, but let's go with 5), it'll take the damn bullet ~17 800 000 000 000 attoseconds for it to hit her skull (<-- some numbers here might be off, because this is a quick and dirty calculation, but you get the idea). So her 'buying an attosecond' is somewhat meaningless, here. And smells like BS.

Also because Clark doesn't do stuff in 'Attoseconds'. He's not THAT fast.

And if he was fast enough to work in attoseconds? He could have sat down, read a book or five, left to go pick up something on the other side of the world, come back...and the bullet still wouldn't have appreciably moved further in its journey.

DarkSaint85

Baziemarc123

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Your scan shows Magneto using his magnetic counting powers. Not his reaction speed. He didn't actually sit down and count them like you or I would.... lol. So I guess if this was a counting contest maybe?

Lol.

1. Nobody said it was lightspeed. So your reading comprehension, Mr 1,000,000 hard light metal, is way off.

2.writers not knowing stuff is...well, par for the course. I can sit down and tell you how writers don't know Jack about genetics, and how mutations in your DNA don't mean you can control the EM spectrum, let along control the weather, but hey ho.

3. 'i don't like it, so it doesn't count'. Great arguments all round.

Magneto can react to photons, and even manipulate them so that feat wouldn't really have any relevance

Baziemarc123

I can show you Kyle rayner getting knocked out by a light ray if you want

abhilegend

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Magneto can react to photons, and even manipulate them so that feat wouldn't really have any relevance
So can Hippolyta. And The Atom. Originally posted by Baziemarc123
I can show you Kyle rayner getting knocked out by a light ray if you want
Right, so can I show Magneto getting koed by Gambit.

Baziemarc123

Originally posted by abhilegend
So can Hippolyta. And The Atom.
Right, so can I show Magneto getting koed by Gambit.

The Atom isn't in this lineup

abhilegend

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
The Atom isn't in this lineup
Right, because we need FTL Atom to win this. FTL Magneto and all that.

carver9

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Mags was able to lock onto Kitty Pryde's unique EM signature even though she was inside of an Intergalactic Bullet that was moving in hyperspace (which is WAAAAAAAAAAY faster than MMMMMMFTL.) at least a galaxy away. He did this before the High Evolutionary's long range scanners/sensors even sensed the bullet.:

https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/magnetoredemption30.jpg

at base levels, Mag's reaction time is 15Xs faster than a Normal Human. By tapping into magnetic fields, he can amp this to well over a million Xs faster. Stark learned this the hard way when he used millions of magnets against Magneto. Here's the scan where his reaction time/thought process time was amped up over 100,000Xs faster

https://imgur.com/rjDk5zN

that feat of Superman is nowhere near lightspeed. - I've calced it out, and while it is FAST (stupidly, ridiculously fast), one could do it considerably under lightspeed. Like, a lot.

What makes me laugh in that scan you have above is Clark talking about it buying her an Attosecond. Clearly the writer has no idea how minute amount of time an attosecond is. It's stupid, because the bullet is basically frozen if we're counting Attoseconds (and will be frozen, essentially without getting anywhere, since it is travelling roughly 2.8E-13 MILLIMETERS in an attosecond, which means if it's 5mm to her skull out of the barrel of the gun (I think it's 10mm, but let's go with 5), it'll take the damn bullet ~17 800 000 000 000 attoseconds for it to hit her skull (<-- some numbers here might be off, because this is a quick and dirty calculation, but you get the idea). So her 'buying an attosecond' is somewhat meaningless, here. And smells like BS.

Also because Clark doesn't do stuff in 'Attoseconds'. He's not THAT fast.

And if he was fast enough to work in attoseconds? He could have sat down, read a book or five, left to go pick up something on the other side of the world, come back...and the bullet still wouldn't have appreciably moved further in its journey.

Its hyperbole.

abhilegend

Right.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Magneto can react to photons, and even manipulate them so that feat wouldn't really have any relevance
So can Susan Storm. So that argument has zero relevance. Unless you want to argue that MAgneto (with 15x human perceptions, as you pointed out) is light speed? So light is 15x human speed? OK.

Originally posted by carver9
That's a fast bullet. We rent see any fire from the shot and an attosecond later. fire is coming from the barrel. That must be a back to the future gun.

That's like saying none of the attacks Hulk tanks are all that impressive, because his pants are still intact in all the artwork.

So a stupid argument.

@riv: yes, I agree. Speed is one thing - it's speed backed up by the offensive capability to capitalise on it.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So can Susan Storm. So that argument has zero relevance. Unless you want to argue that MAgneto (with 15x human perceptions, as you pointed out) is light speed? So light is 15x human speed? OK.

That's like saying none of the attacks Hulk tanks are all that impressive, because his pants are still intact in all the artwork.

So a stupid argument.

@riv: yes, I agree. Speed is one thing - it's speed backed up by the offensive capability to capitalise on it.

I dont think you get it. You're asking me how much Juggernaut weigh not knowing that resistance is a factor which is a reason Superman isnt sent flying when Wonder Woman punch him. Superman is in a weight class that exceeds things like that and this the reason Flash cant punch a Beyonder across space. They are in a weight class that prevent things like that. Flash isnt achieving this. This is the reason Hulk and Red Hulk wasnt sent out of orbit when they were punching each other with planet shaking hits...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/22952952/Hulk_2014-_015-006.jpg.html

Resistance/durability.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
I dont think you get it. You're asking me how much Juggernaut weigh not knowing that resistance is a factor which is a reason Superman isnt sent flying when Wonder Woman punch him. Superman is in a weight class that exceeds things like that. Which is the reason Flash cant punch a Beyonder across space. They are in a weight class that prevent things like that. Flash isnt achieving this. This is the reason Hulk and Red Hulk wasnt sent out of orbit when they were punching each other with planet shaking hits...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/22952952/Hulk_2014-_015-006.jpg.html

Resistance/durability.

Lol what does this have to do with my artwork argument?????????

????????

Go to bed, carver.

I will go through my post point by point, slowly for you.

You said the feat was hyperbole because we can see the flame from the gun etc.

My point was that it was just the artwork. Hulk's pants don't disintegrate, they are always drawn, we do NOT negate his showings just because the artists draw his pants.

Therefore, we shouldn't negate this feat just because of the artwork.

And then you start off on another tangent AGAIN, hoping no one catches you out.

Btw, with regards to Superman and being punched:

https://s5.postimg.cc/lwg48u2vb/RCO088.jpg

He can stop himself from flying off, because he has flight.

The White Martian also has flight. Didn't stop him.

And Juggy has.....no flight. He has PLENTY of durability. He wouldn't be KOed. He WOULDN'T EVEN BE SCRACTCHED.

But he would be in Africa. And has no way of coming home.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You left BFR on, which means even the physically weakest on the JLA team (Flash) is able to IMP Juggernaut and BFR him? I agree.

This is what I am talking about. Our argument is straying away from this sentence it seems. I guess you conceded this argument. Let's move on to your hyperbole statement.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
This is what I am talking about. Our argument is straying away from this sentence it seems. I guess you conceded this argument. Let's move on to your hyperbole statement.

See above.

You had the chance to clarify if BFR was on or not. Guess you messed up.

We can swap Flash out for WW if you want. She has Flash-level speed too right? According to you:

Originally posted by carver9

Wonder Woman blitz Pyramid and takes her out of orbit before anyone realized what happened. Hell, Flash didn't even see where Pyramid went along Martian Manhunter and other JLA'ers.

http://imgur.com/a/AcjEr

This is speed. If we need an example of how fast a White Martian can be, then I think this is a good example of that.

http://imgur.com/a/4lrc7 .... Was able to keep pace with Flash. Hell, at one point had an advantage.

Lets move on to reflexes since I did say I would be multitasking during the onset of my blitz because again, the distance between Scoobs and myself is nothing to me. I will cover that distance in no time. Hell, it took her to grab a Martian and carry her in space in almost an instant. To the point that some of the fastest speedsters didn't see her blitz off. So, now we are on reflexes. Wonder Woman beats this dude a** faster than thought (Scoobs thought). Faster than a heart beat. He is gone.

http://i.imgur.com/AikpUTv.jpg

I know, I know, pretty vague. Well, we do have the shattergod ft.

http://imgur.com/a/5dOoi

I know, I guess you're tired of looking at that showing as well. Well, Wonder Woman casually deflect these beams...

http://i.imgur.com/Wa9OIrw.jpg

How fast are these beams? They were made of LIGHT.

http://i.imgur.com/fqPHjsG.jpg

Here we have Wonder Woman intercepting heating vision and blocking all of them casually and this was being shot by Amazo (who had Superman and Wonder Woman super speed during the time... he didn't have her self aware reflexes though).

http://imgur.com/a/Gs9Od

Bell rings, WW blitzes all of them off the bat. Juggy gets sent into space (like she did with Primaid).

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait, were you trying to mislead earlier??

Where does it say hard light metal??

Proteus isn't as fast as Superman.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11130/111303655/6387406-0285412357-4HGEf.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11130/111303655/6387408-4788407370-rware.jpg

This is the scene you posted. This is the slowest attosecond I've seen in my life. He goes faster than he have since Pa and the lady still reacts. We see the bullet still in the chamber with no fire around it. When Superman gets there, the bullets left the barrel already with fire around it. This wouldnt even happen if someone was achieving nano second speeds, let alone attosecond. Stop.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
This is the scene you posted. This is the slowest attosecond I've seen in my life. He goes faster than he have since Pa and the lady still reacts. We see the bullet still in the chamber with no fire around it. When Superman gets there, the bullets left the barrel already with fire around it. This wouldnt even happen if someone was achieving nano second speeds, let alone attosecond. Stop.

Says it there, clear as day. You want to argue about it, sure. Let's BZ it.

You will argue using logic and science, how that cannot possibly be an attosecond because of XYZ (you can insert your arguements). Therefore, it is hyperbole (despite us clearly seeing the effects, and comics supporting this).

I will argue using logic and science, how random mutations in your DNA code cannot possibly give you control of the weather, or the EM spectrum, or of reality, because of XYZ (I will insert arguments later). Therefore, the entire concept of the X-men is hyperbole (despite us clearly seeing the effects, and comics supporting this).

You, of all people, are using artwork to support your arguments. Shall I argue that this scan:
https://imgur.com/a/5uAkN

Shows Hulk resisting a reality warping attack - but his shorts are still there! So that's all hyperbole?

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Says it there, clear as day. You want to argue about it, sure. Let's BZ it.

You will argue using logic and science, how that cannot possibly be an attosecond because of XYZ (you can insert your arguements). Therefore, it is hyperbole (despite us clearly seeing the effects, and comics supporting this).

I will argue using logic and science, how random mutations in your DNA code cannot possibly give you control of the weather, or the EM spectrum, or of reality, because of XYZ (I will insert arguments later). Therefore, the entire concept of the X-men is hyperbole (despite us clearly seeing the effects, and comics supporting this).

You, of all people, are using artwork to support your arguments. Shall I argue that this scan:
https://imgur.com/a/5uAkN

Shows Hulk resisting a reality warping attack - but his shorts are still there! So that's all hyperbole?

Do you honestly ever see me on here doing BZ's? You know this which is the reason you're even mentioning this.

carver9

At the end of the day buddy, I enjoy statements because Hulk is full of them. So I'm guessing since you're accepting that statement, you'll accept this one as well?

Hulk, who can juggle a sun is powerful enough to take on a being capable of killing the entire Celestial race. Tony states that part of him knows that calling in the big boys, using his 25000 ft alien isnt enough to stop the Hulk. NOTHING WILL.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19644404/Original_Sin_-_Hulk_vs._Iron_Man_004-002.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19644345/Original_Sin_-_Hulk_vs._Iron_Man_004-003.jpg.html

Here is Tony Celestial killer...

http://abload.de/image.php?img=8r9uoq.jpg

I hope we both agree on this since Tony IS one of the smartest men on the planet. Share your thoughts so I can post statements from Reed as well.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
At the end of the day buddy, I enjoy statements because Hulk is full of them. So I'm guessing since you're accepting that statement, you'll accept this one as well?

Hulk, who can juggle a sun is powerful enough to take on a being capable of killing the entire Celestial race. Tony states that part of him knows that calling in the big boys, using his 25000 ft alien isnt enough to stop the Hulk. NOTHING WILL.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19644404/Original_Sin_-_Hulk_vs._Iron_Man_004-002.jpg.html
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/19644345/Original_Sin_-_Hulk_vs._Iron_Man_004-003.jpg.html

Here is Tony Celestial killer...

http://abload.de/image.php?img=8r9uoq.jpg

I hope we both agree on this since Tony IS one of the smartest men on the planet. Share your thoughts so I can post statements from Reed as well.

This is why you're the most weaselly hypocritical poster on this site.

Carver: look at this statement saying the Hulk is the bestest!

Poster: look at this statement saying Superman is fast!

Carver: No, hyperbole, look at the art.

Poster: Well....your statement also has differing art from the statement. You seem to accept that just fine.

Carver: LOOK AT THESE HULK STATEMENTS! HUH?? HUH???? ACCEPT THEM!

Look, carver, I think maybe you're...just not that bright? You are making my entire point for me.

You accept statements when it suits you. OK. Then if you do, then you have to accept the Superman attosecond feat. If you don't, 'because of the art', then hey, all of Hulk's feats are thrown out 'because of his drawn pants'.

You obviously accept the Hulk feats. So why not Superman's feats?

As for your other post:
Originally posted by carver9
Do you honestly ever see me on here doing BZ's? You know this which is the reason you're even mentioning this.

Originally posted by carver9
Do you want to battlezone this topic?

You seem content literally a few days ago to enter into A BZ. Different topic, I know, but your so-called aversion to BZs seems to be pretty fluid.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This is why you're the most weaselly hypocritical poster on this site.

Carver: look at this statement saying the Hulk is the bestest!

Poster: look at this statement saying Superman is fast!

Carver: No, hyperbole, look at the art.

Poster: Well....your statement also has differing art from the statement. You seem to accept that just fine.

Carver: LOOK AT THESE HULK STATEMENTS! HUH?? HUH???? ACCEPT THEM!

Look, carver, I think maybe you're...just not that bright? You are making my entire point for me.

You accept statements when it suits you. OK. Then if you do, then you have to accept the Superman attosecond feat. If you don't, 'because of the art', then hey, all of Hulk's feats are thrown out 'because of his drawn pants'.

You obviously accept the Hulk feats. So why not Superman's feats?

As for your other post:

You seem content literally a few days ago to enter into A BZ. Different topic, I know, but your so-called aversion to BZs seems to be pretty fluid.

Hulk pants, Superman suit, Wonder Woman top, Ironman armor getting blown off of him except his bottom, Wolverine clothing getting blasted off of him except for his bottom, this happens because comics cant have penises and breast showing throughout their comics. Kids does read these things. Other companies probably doesn't care but Disney does. Arguments like this is considered hiding. I think at this point we need to agree to disagree because this isnt going anywhere.

I dont know how that argument is helping you by the way. I tend to argue a lot for the Hulk, I have even mentioned this ft before in the ownage thread along with Hulk being compared to the Phoenix force. Everyone knows statements isnt always legit and I sure as hell wouldnt give Hulk a win against a Celestial killer or the Phoenix Force. Fancy statements my friend but I see it like this. If we can accept one statement, why not accept them all? Get what I'm saying? This is called being fair.

leonidas

can't argue with that logic. carver carving up ds. again. thumb up

Bentley

This discussion needs to be added to Carver's respect thread.

Pillow Biter

Rating this fight in terms of how it is likely to be portrayed in a comic, the Xmen appear to have have a raw power edge at first glance.

Classic Juggernaut
God Cable
Exodus
Magneto (classic)
Xman

Are all elite-top tier level powerhouses. That's 5 for the Xmen.

The JLA only has 4:

Superman
Wonder Woman
Martian Manhunter
Green Lantern

However, this is somewhat evened out by the fact that Flash and Aquaman are both much more formidable than Storm.

The key factors seem to be:

1) Juggernaut: Just how invulnerable will he be portrayed as?

2) Superman: How much higher than elite top tier level will the writer let Superman ascend to, if at all, when or if he starts dropping the gloves?

3) Hal Jordan: What level will Hal be portrayed at? I'd say that over the last 15 years, GLs--even the elite ones--have seemed to drop in stock slowly but steadily, and often seemed to be borderline elite top tier at best. However, right now Hal is kicking serious ass in the GL books and has been for a while. They have even explained his superior performance explicitly. However, the key test of a powerup becoming accepted is for it to start showing up in other books than their own. Thus far, I haven't seen much evidence for more formidable GLs, or a more formidable Hal, in other DC books.

In general, I think this will follow typical comic book conventions. Certain power types tend to be unrealistically prioritized over others (strength over speed, etc.), and power set matchup-based advantages that should result in easy, one-sided wins will not be exploited at all, or will at best be allowed to provide a minor edge. I doubt speed nor TP would be allowed to decide the match. Comic fights are biased towards raw, tangible power: strength, durability, raw energy blasts, etc. over more realistic but exotic power uses.

In the above vein, Flash would likely perform as the high mid-tier that he normally is shown to be as. Aquaman would be in the same category, though he is much more formidable than he used to be.

I'm on the fence as to which side I would choose. The Xmen may have a bit more raw power, unless Superman gets frisky; but the Superman factor is somewhat balanced by the fact that Juggernaut could be written as truly invulnerable, and BFR is not always used right away. In fact, BFR isn't used that often in comics, despite it typically being a very effective tactic. However, a truly-invulnerable Juggernaut tends to force a writers hand at some point on this score, resulting in a much greater chance BFR will be used against him.

In the end, I might still lean JLA because of teamwork, experience, grit and a higher ceiling. Superman is very dynamic in power. GLs also seem to be innately dynamic given their power is based on will, which can fluctuate and spike more than physical muscles can. Additionally, the Flash often plays out of his typical mid-tier level and plays with and defeats the big boys. Finally, Aquaman has gotten a lot of push over the last few years and with his Trident, is also able to throw down with the big boys from time to time.

Non the abovementioned increased or higher performance levels are necessarily the norm for those characters, but they are all fairly frequent occurrences.

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
That's pretty stupid. I don't know how you can argue lantern or Diana beating Thor A massively faster character with a sword that cuts Darkseid beating a slowpoke who she can just stab in the eyes? Yeah, that's hard to wrap around.

Hal can simply make a construct separating Thor from Mjolnir, and blast him into pieces, or pierce him, or make constructs inside of his body etc.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
a hypersonic feat? A massively faster than light feat.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Mags was able to lock onto Kitty Pryde's unique EM signature even though she was inside of an Intergalactic Bullet that was moving in hyperspace (which is WAAAAAAAAAAY faster than MMMMMMFTL.) at least a galaxy away. He did this before the High Evolutionary's long range scanners/sensors even sensed the bullet.:

https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/magnetoredemption30.jpg I can look at jets flying overhead at supersonic speeds, too. I couldn't dodge a bullet coming in that fast from a few hundred feet away. Tracking something from far away, and reacting to it attacking you are two very different things.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
at base levels, Mag's reaction time is 15Xs faster than a Normal Human. By tapping into magnetic fields, he can amp this to well over a million Xs faster. Stark learned this the hard way when he used millions of magnets against Magneto. Here's the scan where his reaction time/thought process time was amped up over 100,000Xs faster

https://imgur.com/rjDk5zN What is this shit? What's next, Firestorm is the fastest being in comics by transmutating trillions of trillions of atoms?

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
that feat of Superman is nowhere near lightspeed. - I've calced it out, and while it is FAST (stupidly, ridiculously fast), one could do it considerably under lightspeed. Like, a lot.

How much do you wanna bet that my calculations are better than yours?

Would you bet a self-ban on it?

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
What makes me laugh in that scan you have above is Clark talking about it buying her an Attosecond. Clearly the writer has no idea how minute amount of time an attosecond is. It's stupid, because the bullet is basically frozen if we're counting Attoseconds (and will be frozen, essentially without getting anywhere, since it is travelling roughly 2.8E-13 MILLIMETERS in an attosecond, which means if it's 5mm to her skull out of the barrel of the gun (I think it's 10mm, but let's go with 5), it'll take the damn bullet ~17 800 000 000 000 attoseconds for it to hit her skull (<-- some numbers here might be off, because this is a quick and dirty calculation, but you get the idea). So her 'buying an attosecond' is somewhat meaningless, here. And smells like BS.

Also because Clark doesn't do stuff in 'Attoseconds'. He's not THAT fast.

And if he was fast enough to work in attoseconds? He could have sat down, read a book or five, left to go pick up something on the other side of the world, come back...and the bullet still wouldn't have appreciably moved further in its journey.

I don't think you understand the difference between acceleration/flight speed, and actual perception time.

Flight and superspeed/perception are two different things.

I assume you're familiar with Green Lanterns, no?

RealityWarper

Seriously, Team 1 can stomp with telepathy.

carver9

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Seriously, Team 1 can stomp with telepathy.

This man is a genius. People forgot about telepathy which is the reason I kept saying LOOK AGAIN. That's the main factor here and they are fighting some of the best telepathies in comics. Wouldn't say a stomp but it does play a HUGE factor in this fight.

carver9

They are fighting against beings that can use telepathy and battle at their prime at the same time. That's a dangerous combo because you'll primarily defending against telepathy while getting attacked by elite power, all at the same time.

RealityWarper

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by carver9
They are fighting against beings that can use telepathy and battle at their prime at the same time. That's a dangerous combo because you'll primarily defending against telepathy while getting attacked by elite power, all at the same time. How good is their telepathy while unconscious and bleeding in the upper atmosphere/Mars?

DarkSaint85

You know what? Speed of thought is 30m/s. It's an ACTUAL forum rule:

That's human speed of thought.

Now, just ASSUMING that we are going to bring science and logic into this. Let's assume for an attosecond (lol) that we are going to sit down and analyse things like gun speeds and bullet speeds and when exactly one sees a muzzle flash (lol).

Let's ignore what's been shown on panel (lol). Let's ignore all of that, and say hey, bullets don't work like that in real life, it must be a back to the future bullet (lol).

After ALL that....we are left with some humans with human level 30 meters per second thought impulses....

And the Flash.

And WW, who has entered the SF on her own and has blitzed opponents who Superman couldn't etc etc, with a super sharp sword and super sharp skills.

And Superman, who, whilst no WW in reflexes, is FASTER than her in raw speed.

And Aquaman, who can leap 10,000 feat per second (through water, which, as we all know, is denser and harder to move through than air). That's 3,048 meters per second, btw. So 100 times faster than the nerve impulses in the X-men.

ASSUMING we ignore what's been shown on panel, and let's just use science and logic. Slowest attosecond I've ever seen in my life, says the Carver.

carver9

Glad you brought up Flash. How fast is Flash going here...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111126988/4858435-the+flash.jpg

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Glad you brought up Flash. How fast is Flash going here...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111126988/4858435-the+flash.jpg

Hehehe. You wanna do this dance, carver? OK.

They were CARRIED there UNDER the speed of light. Statement is as clear as day.

He carried them under the speed of light, but the statement says NOTHING about how fast he was going when he was running back into the city.

Guess what?

The comic DOES say, however, how fast the entire operation took (0.00001 microseconds). How many people there were (532,000). The maximum carrying capacity of Flash (max 2 people). How far away he carried them (35miles).

And, crucially, without ignoring it, the ENTIRE time period it took to evacuate them.

From there, it is simple to calculate how fast he was going.

I'm just happy you didn't use a low showing. We are both better than that smile

Edit: a wiser poster once said:

Originally posted by Board Walker
For those arguing it was beneath light speed, we were given very specific numbers. There is no ambiguity to the term 0.00001 microseconds, is there? That is a precise measure of time. There's no ambiguity to the term 35 miles, is there? That's a precise measurement of distance. There's no ambiguity in 532,000 people, is there? What is indirect about these things, that I had to do grade school math?

You can't say he wasn't above lightspeed in the event unless you believe he did not save those people. You can't have it both ways. It is literally impossible for him to save 532,000 people by moving them 35 miles in 0.0001 microseconds (or in a few seconds if you take Jesse's third hand knowledge over the statement in the original comic yourself).

Seriously, if you think, honestly truly believe, Wally was under light speed in this feat, how did the people not die? Just answer me that. This is important because Wally clearly saved those people. You are more worried about Wally being seen as weaker that you ignore what you're arguing for entails. It literally means he can't do what he did.

If you are one of those who say preference should not determine fact. The fact is Wally saved half a million people before a nuke could harm a single soul. Tell me how he did it at under lightspeed and I'll believe you.

Furthermore Jesse didn't correct anything. She literally referenced an event she was not there to witness and we have no idea where she heard about what Wally did from. It's a truly irrelevant page and it's a shame you're so attached to it.

carver9

It was actually mentioned twice on how fast he went. It even tells us why he was fatigued. "As his body sloughs off the screaming after effects of NEAR LIGHT SPEED TRAVEL".

Not only do they tell you once, it tells you twice but gives you a clear indication of why he was fatigued. So again, how fast was Flash going because if he was going FTL, it wouldve said it.

This is what I mean by accepting statements and not accepting it. The picking and choosing is hilarious.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
It was actually mentioned twice on how fast he went. It even tells us why he was fatigued. "As his body sloughs off the screaming after effects of NEAR LIGHT SPEED TRAVEL".

Not only do they tell you once, it tells you twice but gives you a clear indication of why he was fatigued. So again, how fast was Flash going because if he was going FTL, it wouldve said it.

Yes. Because his last run was carrying someone out.

Let's say you're Usain Bolt.

You have two races today, at the Olympics. The 100m sprint, and then later, in the afternoon, an 800m run.

After you run the 800m, you collapse to the floor, absolutely bone-achingly tired, having run 800m in 2 minutes 7 seconds.

Quick maths time, that means the Carver body is sloughing off the screaming after effects of running 800m in 2 minutes 7.

That's 14mph, btw.

Is that your top speed over 100m?

Answer: it is not, lol. Bolt runs 100m at a speed of 23.4mph.

You always ignore that the comic only states he carried them out under the speed of light. It never said how fast he was going on average, over the whole 0.0001microseconds, over 70 miles, with 2 out of 532,000 people.

carver9

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes. Because his last run was carrying someone out.

Let's say you're Usain Bolt.

You have two races today, at the Olympics. The 100m sprint, and then later, in the afternoon, an 800m run.

After you run the 800m, you collapse to the floor, absolutely bone-achingly tired, having run 800m in 2 minutes 7 seconds.

Quick maths time, that means the Carver body is sloughing off the screaming after effects of running 800m in 2 minutes 7.

That's 14mph, btw.

Is that your top speed over 100m?

Answer: it is not, lol. Bolt runs 100m at a speed of 23.4mph.

You always ignore that the comic only states he carried them out under the speed of light. It never said how fast he was going on average, over the whole 0.0001microseconds, over 70 miles, with 2 out of 532,000 people.

Gotcha. So he went FTL to save them but we are told that (even though he went FTL) his body is sloughing off the screaming after effects of near light speed? Make sense.

smile

It's a near light speed showing. That's IF we just use statements as a definite.

carver9

What's more fatiguing on the body... running 14 mph or running 23.4 mph?

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
Gotcha. So he went FTL to save them but we are told that (even though he went FTL) his body is sloughing off the screaming after effects of near light speed? Make sense.

smile

It's a near light speed showing. That's IF we just use statements as a definite.

IF we use HALF statements.

Please post the whole statement: 'They were carried there, one at a time, sometimes two, at a hair breadth's short of the speed of light'.

You are literally being blind to 30% of the statement, lol.

And I'm not sure where your confusion lies, unless you are trying so hard to out-debate me? But it's really not working.

Why are you ignoring all of the other statements? The 0.0001 microsecond, the 532,000 people, the 35 miles?

And then being all triumphant and saying 'Teehee DS, I have you backed into a corner now! IF we only take statements' blah blah blah....when you ignore most of the other statements?

IOW, hypocrite. As I pointed out a page or so ago. You ONLY take statements when they suit you.

I, on the other hand, take all statements. He carried them there, we know how long it took, how many trips etc, how far it was - and we know how long his FINAL trip took.

Think back to my Usain Bolt analogy. If you have actually read this, start your post with the word 'potato'. At the end of the 800m race, when you collapse to the floor - does that mean the pace you just ran is your max in the 100m? Y/N?

Makes sense now? smile

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by carver9
What's more fatiguing on the body... running 14 mph or running 23.4 mph?

Lol. Over what distance?

14mph over 1000miles is a lot more fatiguing than 23.4mph over 10 feet.

Edit: are you rescuing/carrying anyone? Two people?

Edit edit: did you run 14 mph (for 800m) straight after you ran 23.4mph for 100m?

deathslash

Originally posted by deathslash
Blah blah blah speed blitz blah blah blah dynamic strength blah blah blah telepathy.

Alright, I think I've just accurately summed up what the next four pages of butt hurt replies are gonna be about. god, these arguments are getting so predictable.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by deathslash
god, these arguments are getting so predictable.

Lol, actually, if you look, we're arguing about BFRs smile

ghostman

Originally posted by carver9
Its hyperbole.

like alot of hulks feats?

carver9

Originally posted by ghostman
like alot of hulks feats?

Like a lot of Superman fts. smile

Zack M

Originally posted by ghostman
like alot of hulks feats?

yes

One Big Mob

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hehehe. You wanna do this dance, carver? OK.

They were CARRIED there UNDER the speed of light. Statement is as clear as day.

He carried them under the speed of light, but the statement says NOTHING about how fast he was going when he was running back into the city.

Guess what?

The comic DOES say, however, how fast the entire operation took (0.00001 microseconds). How many people there were (532,000). The maximum carrying capacity of Flash (max 2 people). How far away he carried them (35miles).

And, crucially, without ignoring it, the ENTIRE time period it took to evacuate them.

From there, it is simple to calculate how fast he was going.

I'm just happy you didn't use a low showing. We are both better than that smile

Edit: a wiser poster once said: "A wiser poster"

Board Walker

At least Carver has accidentally said something sharp witted throughout his internet debating career. I'm sure Board Walker knows what logic is, but "she" takes a hard right everytime it sneaks up.

I don't even know why people still argue about this feat. It was pretty obvious that the writer had no idea what he was talking about when people are calling Northstar speed feat trillions of times lightspeed or what have you.

Let me explain what's going on with this feat:

There are two answers provided by the author. His tighty whities were about to be marred by the uncouth nature of a frozen burrito. He needed to think of some numbers quick before his own chair island was subject to an explosion. So he did.

He comes back oh let's say 15 minutes later in a more relaxed state. His tighty whities as white as ever, and - I'm exaggerating when I say they were tighty whities. They were loosey whities as they've experienced a stretch over the years and you know what, he lost a few pounds too so good for him. So anyway as he sits down on his chair he watches his balls flip out of his loosey whities and he thinks to himself:

"Boy that was a pretty fast ejection from my off brand loosey whities. I could almost feel the air currents like someone was breathing on me. You'd think the hair would slow them down... for pubic hair my ball hair is pretty thin. Like head hair, wait... hair... breathing... fast. I got it, a hair's breadth of lightspeed!"

So without reading his quickly scrambled together white saving numbers, he throws that in too. No calculator, no further thought, under the assumption that the numbers would sync up because he's a pretty cool guy. He put no effort into it.

So then you ask yourself - What is right?

Well, both of them. This is the speed the writer wanted, and this is what he did. And they are both wrong as well. The answer you want is based on what you dislike or like most. You like speed, so you will go with the sketchy numbers. Carver hates DC so he will go with the stated speed. You could literally argue with yourself the merits of each one if you were so inclined and probably be right.

The author intent is what he said the speed is. His flawed writing that requires calculations that are much like a snowflake where no two answers are ever the same, are the "speed" as well. Bickering over the perpetual loop created by saying the speed you arrived at shows what a stupid thing you're arguing about. Maybe the dumbest argument in comics.

"Well I did the calculations and got a different number than the last 20 guys who did the calculations on the feat and arrived at 3.7 trillion times lightspeed. How do you even think this was under lightspeed?"

"The comic said it was."

Some truly awful shit.

-Pr-

Originally posted by carver9
This man is a genius. People forgot about telepathy which is the reason I kept saying LOOK AGAIN. That's the main factor here and they are fighting some of the best telepathies in comics. Wouldn't say a stomp but it does play a HUGE factor in this fight.

No, nobody forgot about it. The JLA has two telepaths and at least three characters outside of them all that have fought and beaten/resisted telepaths.

Telepathy isn't winning this fight. I mean, jfc, you MADE the thread. Did you NOT do the research?

carver9

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, nobody forgot about it. The JLA has two telepaths and at least three characters outside of them all that have fought and beaten/resisted telepaths.

Telepathy isn't winning this fight. I mean, jfc, you MADE the thread. Did you NOT do the research?

They do have fts but they'll be fighting against being mindraped while defending against power output. It's not as if they are going to be fighting at their Prime while getting their minds tinkered with.

-Pr-

Originally posted by carver9
They do have fts but they'll be fighting against being mindraped while defending against power output. It's not as if they are going to be fighting at their Prime while getting their minds tinkered with.

It's like you didn't read a word I wrote.

DarkSaint85

Originally posted by One Big Mob
"A wiser poster"

Board Walker

At least Carver has accidentally said something sharp witted throughout his internet debating career. I'm sure Board Walker knows what logic is, but "she" takes a hard right everytime it sneaks up.

I don't even know why people still argue about this feat. It was pretty obvious that the writer had no idea what he was talking about when people are calling Northstar speed feat trillions of times lightspeed or what have you.

Let me explain what's going on with this feat:

There are two answers provided by the author. His tighty whities were about to be marred by the uncouth nature of a frozen burrito. He needed to think of some numbers quick before his own chair island was subject to an explosion. So he did.

He comes back oh let's say 15 minutes later in a more relaxed state. His tighty whities as white as ever, and - I'm exaggerating when I say they were tighty whities. They were loosey whities as they've experienced a stretch over the years and you know what, he lost a few pounds too so good for him. So anyway as he sits down on his chair he watches his balls flip out of his loosey whities and he thinks to himself:

"Boy that was a pretty fast ejection from my off brand loosey whities. I could almost feel the air currents like someone was breathing on me. You'd think the hair would slow them down... for pubic hair my ball hair is pretty thin. Like head hair, wait... hair... breathing... fast. I got it, a hair's breadth of lightspeed!"

So without reading his quickly scrambled together white saving numbers, he throws that in too. No calculator, no further thought, under the assumption that the numbers would sync up because he's a pretty cool guy. He put no effort into it.

So then you ask yourself - What is right?

Well, both of them. This is the speed the writer wanted, and this is what he did. And they are both wrong as well. The answer you want is based on what you dislike or like most. You like speed, so you will go with the sketchy numbers. Carver hates DC so he will go with the stated speed. You could literally argue with yourself the merits of each one if you were so inclined and probably be right.

The author intent is what he said the speed is. His flawed writing that requires calculations that are much like a snowflake where no two answers are ever the same, are the "speed" as well. Bickering over the perpetual loop created by saying the speed you arrived at shows what a stupid thing you're arguing about. Maybe the dumbest argument in comics.

"Well I did the calculations and got a different number than the last 20 guys who did the calculations on the feat and arrived at 3.7 trillion times lightspeed. How do you even think this was under lightspeed?"

"The comic said it was."

Some truly awful shit.

Just to say, btw, that there was a third way, which was mine. It enabled BOTH statements ('carried under light speed' & '0.00001 hexajigglyseconds' to be true.

carver9

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's like you didn't read a word I wrote.

You said they have 2 (even though current Aquaman really haven't displayed unique telepathy abilities yet) telepaths that have resisted, etc...

What i am saying is, those 2 (really one) cant defend for the entire team, especially considering they are fighting some of Marvels best telepaths. They do have showings of resisting but do you honestly believe Martian Manhunter can defend the entire team vs 3 high end telepaths? Do you also believe that if Wonder Woman is getting mind attacked, she is just going to fly through it as if it is nothing. That is what is going to have to happen for this not to be a fight (FYI... just using WW as an example).

One Big Mob

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Just to say, btw, that there was a third way, which was mine. It enabled BOTH statements ('carried under light speed' & '0.00001 hexajigglyseconds' to be true. No

Without even pretending to look at the scan I'm fairly certain the numbers are impossible for that to be true. And it would at least double to infinity and beyond the previous numbers.
Plus we'd assume he slowed down quintillions of times slower just to move dudes who aren't even subject to the laws of physics due to the Fast Force in the first place.

The feat is severely flawed and you guys are analyzing it like the guy wrote something super deep and complicated. Sometimes the hidden meaning is just that the writer didn't give a shit. PC Math at best. Carver dragging his balls across his keyboard numbers at worst.

The numbers can't exist together. They are both right and wrong and that makes the scene flawed. One of the things needed to be taken out to make sense.

I don't care that it's posted, but it needs to stop being used as an example that the Carvers or the Darksaints of the world are right about it.

-Pr-

Originally posted by carver9
You said they have 2 (even though current Aquaman really haven't displayed unique telepathy abilities yet) telepaths that have resisted, etc...

What i am saying is, those 2 (really one) cant defend for the entire team, especially considering they are fighting some of Marvels best telepaths. They do have showings of resisting but do you honestly believe Martian Manhunter can defend the entire team vs 3 high end telepaths? Do you also believe that if Wonder Woman is getting mind attacked, she is just going to fly through it as if it is nothing. That is what is going to have to happen for this not to be a fight (FYI... just using WW as an example).

Aquaman hasn't stopped having telepathy unless I missed something.

They don't need to defend the entire team, which you either knew and are misrepresenting, or you didn't because you don't know the characters as well as you say. Which is it?

You either knew that Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern (you said Lantern, so it defaults to Hal) all have at least one world-class telepath as an enemy, that they've beaten numerous times, and you're being misleading because you want the thread to go a certain way, or you didn't because you just don't know those characters that well.

The alternative is that you REALLY think that telepathy is going to be a deciding factor in this fight. And I don't think you're that stupid.

One Big Mob

Hold on a minute now.

Carver's not the dumbest guy in the world but even a completely average intellect like him is capable of some brain frying logic. I wouldn't say one low feat would lower his average but I do think that low feat would be in line with his other low feats if that makes sense. We wouldn't just throw it out like it's his lowest feat for example, but I do think it in line with his lowest portrayals.

He can carve it up with the best of them and he can butcher it down with the worst.

carver9

Originally posted by One Big Mob

laughing out loud

carver9

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Hold on a minute now.

Carver's not the dumbest guy in the world but even a completely average intellect like him is capable of some brain frying logic. I wouldn't say one low feat would lower his average but I do think that low feat would be in line with his other low feats if that makes sense. We wouldn't just throw it out like it's his lowest feat for example, but I do think it in line with his lowest portrayals.

He can carve it up with the best of them and he can butcher it down with the worst.

Which low ft though? I dont think I mentioned any lows.

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by One Big Mob
No

Without even pretending to look at the scan I'm fairly certain the numbers are impossible for that to be true. And it would at least double to infinity and beyond the previous numbers.
Plus we'd assume he slowed down quintillions of times slower just to move dudes who aren't even subject to the laws of physics due to the Fast Force in the first place.

The feat is severely flawed and you guys are analyzing it like the guy wrote something super deep and complicated. Sometimes the hidden meaning is just that the writer didn't give a shit. PC Math at best. Carver dragging his balls across his keyboard numbers at worst.

The numbers can't exist together. They are both right and wrong and that makes the scene flawed. One of the things needed to be taken out to make sense.

I don't care that it's posted, but it needs to stop being used as an example that the Carvers or the Darksaints of the world are right about it. If it helps, the 'lightspeed' stuff in DC varies a lot, and has lots of interpretations on what it 'means'.

Some writers even have it as a 'time stop'. As in, when you reach lightspeed, time literally stops moving . I'd wager to say that the writer went with that interpretation, that the further you go towards lightspeed, the smaller 'time' gets. So he pulled a random fraction of a random fraction of time, because he was 99.9999% lightspeed, to convey that.

To get into the physics of the real world, from a photon's perspective, time is standing still. There's no 'here' or 'there', they're instantly in all locations at the same time. So...something like that, I guess.

carver9

Originally posted by -Pr-
Aquaman hasn't stopped having telepathy unless I missed something.

They don't need to defend the entire team, which you either knew and are misrepresenting, or you didn't because you don't know the characters as well as you say. Which is it?

You either knew that Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern (you said Lantern, so it defaults to Hal) all have at least one world-class telepath as an enemy, that they've beaten numerous times, and you're being misleading because you want the thread to go a certain way, or you didn't because you just don't know those characters that well.

The alternative is that you REALLY think that telepathy is going to be a deciding factor in this fight. And I don't think you're that stupid.

Never held it as the end all be all (telepathy). Earlier, when it was mentioned that telepathy turns this into a stomp, I disputed that. I did say that it could pull some wins for the team though. How many wins, that is up for debate but they could win. Mix telepathy in with the raw power the Xmen team have, this is highly competitive and can go either way.

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by carver9
Never held it as the end all be all (telepathy). Earlier, when it was mentioned that telepathy turns this into a stomp, I disputed that. I did say that it could pull some wins for the team though. How many wins, that is up for debate but they could win. Mix telepathy in with the raw power the Xmen team have, this is highly competitive and can go either way. You're such coward, it's ridiculous.

Stick to your guns and tell Raoul to jerk you off if he doesn't like it. What are you afraid, he'll ban you for making a bait thread?

Zack M

Lanterns have TP too. Pretty much a stomp for the JLA.

carver9

@Phil...

The same words I told Pr, i said it on this page as well.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=652683&pagenumber=4

This isnt a stomp. I dont make bait threads.

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by carver9
I dont made bait threads. To think this is the same page where Bran said you were average.

Then again, do we take you average as 85 or 100?

Bran knows what I mean.

carver9

Lol... that is obviously a typo. I edited it just for you. Please make sure your sentences/paragraphs are put together well because I will be checking each and every last one of them from now on.

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... that is obviously a typo. I edited it just for you. Please make sure your sentences/paragraphs are put together well because I will be checking each and every last one of them from now on. I wasn't even referring to the typo, dumby mcdumbface.

carver9

You couldnt have been talking about bait threads, so let's stick to the typo.

-Pr-

Originally posted by carver9
Never held it as the end all be all (telepathy). Earlier, when it was mentioned that telepathy turns this into a stomp, I disputed that. I did say that it could pull some wins for the team though. How many wins, that is up for debate but they could win. Mix telepathy in with the raw power the Xmen team have, this is highly competitive and can go either way.

hmm

Originally posted by carver9
This man is a genius. People forgot about telepathy which is the reason I kept saying LOOK AGAIN. That's the main factor here and they are fighting some of the best telepathies in comics. Wouldn't say a stomp but it does play a HUGE factor in this fight.

mmm

carver9

Originally posted by -Pr-
hmm

mmm

"Wouldnt say its a stomp".

RealityWarper

Originally posted by deathslash
god, these arguments are getting so predictable.

The "hur dur speedblitz" argument is getting old.

It's not like those characters get tagged or put down in almost every fights doing their best...

xJLxKing

JLA win

They are versatile and without a doubt Work better together.

Vanguard

I don't even like DC other than Deathstroke and Red Hood. But even I can tell you the JLA wins.

-Pr-

Originally posted by carver9
"Wouldnt say its a stomp".

So that's what you cherry pick. Okay.

leonidas

i think this thread has really served to reveal the full breadth and depth of the newly-blossomed relationship between bran and carver. it's like carv is this rescue puppy that bran is caring for and defending. dude jumps to carv's defense like riv defends his threads. it's cute in a weird big-brother way. laughing out loud

carver9

I remember when me and you use to be like that. Rocking chair buddies. Good ole days. smile

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by carver9
Rocking chair buddies. I didn't know leo used to swing that way.

DarkSaint85

Wait is Carver admitting he's like a rescue dog laughing out loud

One Big Mob

Originally posted by leonidas
i think this thread has really served to reveal the full breadth and depth of the newly-blossomed relationship between bran and carver. it's like carv is this rescue puppy that bran is caring for and defending. dude jumps to carv's defense like riv defends his threads. it's cute in a weird big-brother way. laughing out loud

Me and Carver were born of the same mold. Where I was to become a mold for a nice honest company, Carver was a stolen mold used to push out cheap chinese bootlegs that made kids sick in an unfortunate Christmas present. He is my chinese bootleg.

Though I'm not sure this thread is a good example of that... I just said him saying something really dumb would be in line with his portrayals, albeit low end, as opposed to an impossibility...

But we are all just Carver9s and Darksaint85s. Sometimes we will toe the line of the chinese bootleg to fight the tyranny of Asian wrath. Like mice in a wheel, we are all subject to this eternal conflict. To achieve true enlightenment we have to take the bad with the good and balance them ever so precariously on the edge, never tipping a certain direction. You need the edge of Carver to truly to slice through the darkness, just like you need to enshroud in that same darkness of DS to become a Saint. A balance between universal constants, a game of abstract ideas too big for a normal mind to handle.

You need a little Carver in you, otherwise you feed too much into the dark. Then you start peeling back the Carver curtain too much and find out he had his bottom ribs removed as a child and can now put his lips all the way to the bottom of his shaft. That is when light dies. That is when you become Darksaint85.