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Rules: Darth Vitiate (when Reven attacked him)

Marka humbles him and takea over the Empire.

Vitiate, obviously.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate, obviously.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate, obviously.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate, obviously.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate, obviously.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate, obviously.

There is a specific rule on this forum(in versus battles section) which states that versuses should not occur between unknown characters such as: Marka Ragnos.

We cannot quantify his Force skills since we don't know 'objective' things about him.

13-year old Vitiate impressed Marka Ragnos. Much older and powerful Vitiate would absolutely shit on Ragnos in an encounter.

Ragnos's spirit did not dare to pay a visit to Vitiate either - in part due to Vitiate throwing many in his Dark Temple to siphon energy from.

I also believe that:

Revan (Reborn) >> Ragnos.

Revan's sheer growth in power over the course of years is very impressive (he went from getting one-shotted by Vitiate to exchanging blows with Vitiate in a span of few years). Drew Karpyshyn insist that Revan's connectivity with the Force was extraordinary (very high midichlorian count in short).

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
13-year old Vitiate impressed Marka Ragnos. Much older and powerful Vitiate would absolutely shit on Ragnos in an encounter.

Ragnos's spirit did not dare to pay a visit to Vitiate either - in part due to Vitiate throwing many in his Dark Temple to siphon energy from.

1. What makes you say that? It's just said he impressed Ragnos with his strength in the Force; that's all.

2. Ragnos' spirit is trapped in the Chaos.

You see him on Yavin 4 in SWTOR.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
1. What makes you say that? It's just said he impressed Ragnos with his strength in the Force; that's all.
A 13-year old Vitiate at that.

Centuries old Emperor Vitiate would one-shot Marka Ragnos or such.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
2. Ragnos' spirit is trapped in the Chaos.
No, it wasn't.

Ragnos's spirit interacted with Exar Kun among others. Same is true for the spirit of Naga Sadow. Both kept their distance from Emperor Vitiate because they suspected retaliation.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ragnos's spirit interacted with Exar Kun among others. Same is true for the spirit of Naga Sadow. Both kept their distance from Emperor Vitiate because they suspected retaliation.

Source for the bolded?

Originally posted by ares834
Source for the bolded?
Vitiate's actions were very telling. It is stated somewhere that Emperor Vitiate had ZERO tolerance for ancient Sith spirits.

Found something:

The Emperor knew the spirits of the ancient Sith Lords could be a threat to his power when he returned to the known galaxy a century later....

From Timeline 7: Peace for the Republic?

Emperor Vitiate arranged for elimination of the spirit of Vodal Kressh when it was discovered as an example, due to to his link to Ludo Kressh.

None of that confirms what you stated. If anything it suggests Vitiate was afraid of the spirits rather than the other way around.

Originally posted by ares834
None of that confirms what you stated. If anything it suggests Vitiate was afraid of the spirits rather than the other way around.
Vitiate wasn't afraid of them but regarded them as a threat to his rule; this is why he imprisoned most in the Dark Temple. I have played the game and I came across ample evidence that Vitiate would not spare an ancient Sith spirit if one was uncovered somewhere.

You have a better explanation of why ancient Sith spirits were not willing to interact with Vitiate?

Simple. Because they don't always interact with others. There are plenty of Sith Lords they did not interact with. Ragnos never appears to Revan for example.

Nadd, Geistalt, and LeGenD are competing for who knows the least about what they're speaking on, I see.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vitiate, obviously.

In Marka's days as Lord of the Sith, Vitiate seemed scared of him, but I think thats because he couldn't get a read on how powerful he really was.

A lot of the stuff that comes from the ancients is how powerful they're implied to be.

Tulak is implied to be one of the best lightsaber duelists in the mythos, Marka is implied to be incredibly physically strong and also a powerhouse in terms of force powers.

But... no one knows for sure what these guys are capable of because we've never actually SEEN them do anything that impressive besides a few, notably Tulak Hord, Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, and Karness Murr.

The rest are all wildcards.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A 13-year old Vitiate at that.

Centuries old Emperor Vitiate would one-shot Marka Ragnos or such.


No, it wasn't.

Ragnos's spirit interacted with Exar Kun among others. Same is true for the spirit of Naga Sadow. Both kept their distance from Emperor Vitiate because they suspected retaliation.



Got any evidence for that?



Yes. It was... Exar Kun and Ulic's gauntlet amulets merely re-summoned him(and others) back to the living world for a couple of moments. Then, he returned back to the Chaos dimension.
We know this because Tavion Axmis needed to harness a huge amount of Force energy from several Dark Side nexi. Why would that be necessary if Ragnos' spirit was not banished into another dimension? Unless the scepter was capable to open a stable pathway to Chaos dimension(but it needed huge amounts of Dark Side energy to access it) unlike the Sith gauntlets.
Ragnos - himself states that when the amulets were joined - his comeback was possible.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nadd, Geistalt, and LeGenD are competing for who knows the least about what they're speaking on, I see.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nadd, Geistalt, and LeGenD are competing for who knows the least about what they're speaking on, I see. At least tell me: I win, right?

Nadd wins, I'm afraid.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
In Marka's days as Lord of the Sith, Vitiate seemed scared of him

Completely nothing ever suggests that.

Originally posted by Sinious
Nadd wins, I'm afraid. That's crazy.

WOKbhs0l0QQ

Honestly, a better fight would be Vitiate right before the ritual of Nathema vs Ragnos.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
In Marka's days as Lord of the Sith, Vitiate seemed scared of him, but I think thats because he couldn't get a read on how powerful he really was.
Lord Vitiate didn't fear Marka Ragnos; the former was simply not into the politics of the Empire until the Great Galactic War which changed the calculus for virtually everybody of note.

There isn't much information to draw from in regards to interactions between Ragnos and Lord Vitiate besides the fact that the latter's power at just the age of 13 was sufficient to impress Ragnos and secure his cooperation. The two might be on good terms since.

However, Ragnos's spirit did not bother to get in touch with Emperor Vitiate. I have pointed out a reason for this earlier.

@XSUPREMEXSKILLZ

There must be a reason for them to hate Emperor Vitiate.

Originally posted by Sinious
Nadd wins, I'm afraid.

I knew you were in love with me.

is that enough for you, or are you to stubborn to read it.

vitiate impressed ragnos, not competed for sith lord. there is a large difference. darth maul impressed palpatine, was he a match, no.

Ragnos has NOTHING to suggest that he's remotely close to the emperor's level.

Ragnos is an unknown.

this is not the only source you know, no one ever tried to assasinate him which is just enough to tell you that people were scared of death or worse. let us see, marr attacked vitiate, revan, etc.

nothing suggest that he is bad in any way in power wise.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
vitiate impressed ragnos, not competed for sith lord. there is a large difference. darth maul impressed palpatine, was he a match, no.
Your analogy is ill-suited to draw a parallel with the case of Marka Ragnos and Vitiate.

Do you think that Palpatine and Marka Ragnos think alike? Marka Ragnos might regard Darth Maul as an average joe since he was ruling an Empire where powerhouses were numerous. However, Tenebrae was extraordinary by any measure:

The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

How many 13 year olds have slaughtered Sith Lords left and right and seized control of a planet by force?

Palpatine wasn't ruling an Empire, and Darth Maul was a refreshing sight to him since he was in search for a suitable apprentice. If Palpatine had been ruling an Empire, he would have a list of potential candidates to single out one from for apprenticeship.

As for Tenebrae not challenging Marka Ragnos; this doesn't imply weakness and/or lack of capability. Every strongman is not necessarily a wrestler, by choice. Tenebrae was simply not interested in contending for the throne at the time:

He amasses an army of Sith followers and turn his back on Imperial politics to hone his skills in the dark side.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Ragnos is below Maul, let alone near Vitiate.

Ragnos is an unknown...?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your analogy is ill-suited to draw a parallel with the case of Marka Ragnos and Vitiate.

Do you think that Palpatine and Marka Ragnos think alike? Marka Ragnos might regard Darth Maul as an average joe since he was ruling an Empire where powerhouses were numerous. However, Tenebrae was extraordinary by any measure:

The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

How many 13 year olds have slaughtered Sith Lords left and right and seized control of a planet by force?

Palpatine wasn't ruling an Empire, and Darth Maul was a refreshing sight to him since he was in search for a suitable apprentice. If Palpatine had been ruling an Empire, he would have a list of potential candidates to single out one from for apprenticeship.

As for Tenebrae not challenging Marka Ragnos; this doesn't imply weakness and/or lack of capability. Every strongman is not necessarily a wrestler, by choice. Tenebrae was simply not interested in contending for the throne at the time:

He amasses an army of Sith followers and turn his back on Imperial politics to hone his skills in the dark side.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
'
vitiate was obviously stonger than palpatine at the age of 13, yet vitiate is not stronger than palpatine when he is 88. vitiate got practically all his force power at a young age and slowly developed, palpatine passed him by. so you are telling me that he can beat ragnos at that age. it is stated that no one could come to ragnos and defeat him or challenge him because they were scared, dont tell me that a child could beat him.

Originally posted by ILS
Ragnos is below Maul, let alone near Vitiate.

how in the heck is ragnos below him, maul couldnt make it too the best top 20 sith even! ragnos is the next to palpatine on the chart!

Vitiate as of meeting Ragnos was declared to have supreme power and was able to absolutely dominate Dramath. The same Dramath who's insane spirit could stand his own against Arcann and Vaylin alongside the Outlander. Fast forward a century and Vitiate's stated to have harnessed much greater powers. Then he enacts the ritual of Nathema, stated to make him more powerful than the Exile could imagine, putting him far above Darth Nihilus. As well as becoming powerful enough to passively subvert the will of the Force. Then he only gains immensely in power over a millennia until the novel.

Yeah Ragnos is absolutely fvcked.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Vitiate as of meeting Ragnos was declared to have supreme power and was able to absolutely dominate Dramath. The same Dramath who's insane spirit could stand his own against Arcann and Vaylin alongside the Outlander. Fast forward a century and Vitiate's stated to have harnessed much greater powers. Then he enacts the ritual of Nathema, stated to make him more powerful than the Exile could imagine, putting him far above Darth Nihilus. As well as becoming powerful enough to passively subvert the will of the Force. Then he only gains immensely in power over a millennia until the novel.

Yeah Ragnos is absolutely fvcked.

Following that logic, Revan shitstomps Vaylin/Arcann. If dramath held his own against, them.

Or, you know, Revan wasn't doing nearly as well against the Emperor as people like to think he did. As soon as he tried an actual Force exchange he was completely overwhelmed and subdued.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Or, you know, Revan wasn't doing nearly as well against the Emperor as people like to think he did. As soon as he tried an actual Force exchange he was completely overwhelmed and subdued.

"actual force exchange" I guess Sidious/yoda didn't have any actual force exchanges, I guess mace windu and Sidious had no actual force exchanges, I could go on kek.

No Vitiate charged up his full might over time, Revan responded, with a disadvantage. was only given second degree burns and recovered moments later. he is comparable. if not he would of been incinerated, this is clear, with the type of force technique that was used. Just think about it analytically AP, Nyriss's version was capable of incinerating flesh. and revan casually deflected that. he then took on Vitiates version "infinitely more powerful" and was not incinerated, only receiving second degree burns. There is parity.

Nevermind ignoring what took place during the fight.

Where does Revan stand next to century old Vitiate?

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
Where does Revan stand next to century old Vitiate?

Equal or above tbh.
Vitiate, had another 800 years of growth, which would of been immense.

I am not convinced that Revan and Vitiate as of the novel are comparable, but they should be reasonably close.

If Vitiate's growth would be immense, then I don't see Revan being challenged by him at all.

Proof for Vitiate's growth being immense?

Originally posted by ILS
Ragnos is below Vitiate, let alone near Maul.

Agreed

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight
I am not convinced that Revan and Vitiate as of the novel are comparable, but they should be reasonably close.

If Vitiate's growth would be immense, then I don't see Revan being challenged by him at all.

Proof for Vitiate's growth being immense?

900 years of absorbing essence from force users/gaining knowledge, sure he expended a bit on rituals, but it would of been an upwards trend. As backed by SWTOR Vitiate growing stronger than Novel vitiate over 300 years.
And they are clearly within the same league, revan on the lower end.

You know besides a few lightsaber deflections, which is certainly impressive. All I remember was Revan attempting a Tutaminis defensive stance against a Force storm gathered by Vitiate, and being utterly overwhelmed by it.

ragnos was far more powerful than maul. revan stood no chance to vitiate, revan stands no chance with ragnos either.

Ragnos, at least, made a 'Force' drain gadget.

yes, he did, this already shows stronger power than maul.