Why are Religious Institutions automatically tax exempt?

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Rockydonovang
https://ffrf.org/outreach/item/12601-tax-exemption-of-churches

Playmaker
As said by Chief Justice Marshall, "That the power to tax involves the power to destroy." Their exempt because if the State or Federal Government doesn't like what a Religious Institution is saying they can simply tax them out of existence.

Nibedicus
For that matter, why is PP tax exempt and donations to it tax deductible?

Surtur
Originally posted by Playmaker
As said by Chief Justice Marshall, "That the power to tax involves the power to destroy." Their exempt because if the State or Federal Government doesn't like what a Religious Institution is saying they can simply tax them out of existence.

On the surface this makes sense. But I feel you have religions like Christianity that wield far too much power in the world.

Playmaker
Originally posted by Surtur
On the surface this makes sense. But I feel you have religions like Christianity that wield far too much power in the world.

Can't do much about the world.

Robtard
Churches should be taxed for every donation they receive, what they should be allowed to do is use works of charity as tax deductions. eg I donate 1,000 to my local church (I can use that as a deduction for myself), the government gets it's 3rd (or so) in taxes. Then if the church uses donation money to fund a soup line for the homeless, the money spent to fund said service should be tax deductible back to the church.

Surtur
Originally posted by Playmaker
Can't do much about the world.

WAlTJ8gPJ3M

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Playmaker
As said by Chief Justice Marshall, "That the power to tax involves the power to destroy." Their exempt because if the State or Federal Government doesn't like what a Religious Institution is saying they can simply tax them out of existence.
Right, because the government where atheists haven't got a single representative in is going to go on a anti-religion crusade.


Our pledge of allegiance is openly religious, every president ever says, "god bless America", and we've only ever elected Christians.
Don't think the church needs protection, but hey, whatever it takes to justify centers of indoctrination getting special treatment.
Originally posted by Robtard
Churches should be taxed for every donation they receive, what they should be allowed to do is use works of charity as tax deductions. eg I donate 1,000 to my local church (I can use that as a deduction for myself), the government gets it's 3rd (or so) in taxes. Then if the church uses donation money to fund a soup line for the homeless, the money spent to fund said service should be tax deductible back to the church.
stop attacking religion bro.

ESB -1138
Originally posted by Robtard
Churches should be taxed for every donation they receive, what they should be allowed to do is use works of charity as tax deductions. eg I donate 1,000 to my local church (I can use that as a deduction for myself), the government gets it's 3rd (or so) in taxes. Then if the church uses donation money to fund a soup line for the homeless, the money spent to fund said service should be tax deductible back to the church.

If you want to tax churches then you need to be fair and tax all not-for-profit organizations. So to use your example for a moment, if instead I didn't donate $1,000 to my local church but instead donated that money to a soul line for the homeless, then the government should tax that as well. Otherwise, you're just punishing religious institutions for being religious.

BackFire
They should not be tax exempt. Religions are a business now, they make a lot of money. They should all be taxed.

Playmaker
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Right, because the government where atheists haven't got a single representative in is going to go on a anti-religion crusade.


Our pledge of allegiance is openly religious, every president ever says, "god bless America", and we've only ever elected Christians.
Don't think the church needs protection, but hey, whatever it takes to justify centers of indoctrination getting special treatment.

Give me a reason why churches should be taxed at all. Taxation involves interference by the state. Thomas Jefferson explained it best when he said that church-state separation is not meant to create a religion-free civil society or public sphere. Instead, its purpose is to safeguard our fundamental right to religious freedom, by limiting the regulatory powers of government and by distinguishing between political and religious institutions.

Citation:
Garnett, Richard W. 2015. The Washington Post: Tax exemptions protect religious freedom. We should keep them: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/in-theory/wp/2015/09/15/religious-tax-exemptions-protect-religious-freedom-we-should-keep-them/?utm_term=.88e0c416997a

Robtard
Originally posted by BackFire
They should not be tax exempt. Religions are a business now, they make a lot of money. They should all be taxed.

Some of these pastors live in multi-million dollar mansions and drive Bentleys, or more precisely, have a driver that drives them around in their Bentley, that's barely anything, guy's like that are practically scraping by in life

ESB -1138
Originally posted by Robtard
Some of these pastors live in multi-million dollar mansions and drive Bentleys, or more precisely, have a driver that drives them around in their Bentley, that's barely anything, guy's like that are practically scraping by in life

Okay. And? I can point to many other churches where they're running on a deficit.

dadudemon

dadudemon
On the topic, I think the FairTax would take care of this and I think churches should not be exempt from taxes at all.

Wonder Man
Churches support the freedom of money. As God gave freely so may people.

Robtard
Originally posted by dadudemon
On the topic, I think the FairTax would take care of this and I think churches should not be exempt from taxes at all.

Been reading on the FairTax, it sounds too good to be true and I can't see it ever being implemented as it doesn't benefit the rich all that much. There's a reason why the tax code is written to be nearly indecipherable by anyone except lawyers.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Surtur
On the surface this makes sense. But I feel you have religions like Christianity that wield far too much power in the world.


And yet Christians are the most Persecuted Group in the modern world. Most of which is being done by Secular People.

Nibedicus
Honest question: Why should Planned Parenthood be tax exempt?

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Honest question: Why should Planned Parenthood be tax exempt?

Because to Leftist Fascists their "POLITICS are THEIR RELIGION!"


Abortion = Child Sacrifice.

Tzeentch
Originally posted by ESB -1138
Okay. And? I can point to many other churches where they're running on a deficit. And I can point to many people on welfare who live in squalor yet retards still use Shan'eqa owning a pair of new nikes or a new car as evidence that welfare is evil. Oh well.

snowdragon
Originally posted by BackFire
They should not be tax exempt. Religions are a business now, they make a lot of money. They should all be taxed.

I agree. I also like Rob's idea about allowing exemptions for doing "charitable" works like soup lines etc.

cdtm
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
https://ffrf.org/outreach/item/12601-tax-exemption-of-churches

Why are charities and universities?

cdtm
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Honest question: Why should Planned Parenthood be tax exempt?

I'm no lawyer, but I believe there's a question of a public good used to determine who gets an exemption.

So a non profit would presumably exist not to make someone rich, but to serve the public in some way.

Hence, Yale gets to owns miles of land without being taxed a dime.

Adam_PoE

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Robtard
Been reading on the FairTax, it sounds too good to be true and I can't see it ever being implemented as it doesn't benefit the rich all that much. There's a reason why the tax code is written to be nearly indecipherable by anyone except lawyers.

The "Fair Tax" is simply a new name for the consumption tax, which disproportionately penalizes the poor and benefits the rich. There is nothing "fair" about it.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Honest question: Why should Planned Parenthood be tax exempt?

For every dollar Planned Parenthood receives, U.S. taxpayers save seven dollars. They are a net benefit to the country, and they do not generate a profit.

Now tell me why Lakewood Church should be tax exempt.

Nibedicus
Originally posted by cdtm
I'm no lawyer, but I believe there's a question of a public good used to determine who gets an exemption.

So a non profit would presumably exist not to make someone rich, but to serve the public in some way.

Hence, Yale gets to owns miles of land without being taxed a dime.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
For every dollar Planned Parenthood receives, U.S. taxpayers save seven dollars. They are a net benefit to the country, and they do not generate a profit.

Now tell me why Lakewood Church should be tax exempt.

So basically a non-profit that provides public good is a good reason to be tax exempt?

If PP doesn't generate a profit, where does all the money for lobbying come from?

I don't know what Lakewood Church is so how should I know?

snowdragon
Actually the article stated:



https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/publicly-funded-family-planning-services-united-states

Planned Parenthood is just a clinic that takes insurance and medicaid and could easily be replaced with more local clinics. Realistically it shouldn't be funded by the govt(because its charging for services and is already receving payment via medicaid in many/most cases.) Its services aren't free.

Playmaker
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The "Fair Tax" is simply a new name for the consumption tax, which disproportionately penalizes the poor and benefits the rich. There is nothing "fair" about it.

Then please explain what is fair.

Robtard
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The "Fair Tax" is simply a new name for the consumption tax, which disproportionately penalizes the poor and benefits the rich. There is nothing "fair" about it.

I only skimmed the website, seemed more like everyone benefits as it's consumer based taxes?

Wonder Man
Realistically they are probably tax exempt as they do good for the world for it is good that life remains with the earth.

Emperordmb
My stance is that they should be able to choose between tax exempt or spending money politically but not both.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The "Fair Tax" is simply a new name for the consumption tax, which disproportionately penalizes the poor and benefits the rich. There is nothing "fair" about it.

I think that's a myth perpetuated by Republicans who don't want a FairTax, actually (because their big business partners lose their loopholes):

https://i.imgur.com/f3zEAJM.png

https://i.imgur.com/AEybWRE.png

https://i.imgur.com/8QwD5mA.png

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The "Fair Tax" is simply a new name for the consumption tax, which disproportionately penalizes the poor and benefits the rich. There is nothing "fair" about it.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
For every dollar Planned Parenthood receives, U.S. taxpayers save seven dollars. They are a net benefit to the country, and they do not generate a profit.

Now tell me why Lakewood Church should be tax exempt.

Oh I bet both of these "Points" could be rather easily debated. Or just out right proved WRONG!!!!

Aka Lies of the Left on Parade.

Originally posted by Robtard
I only skimmed the website, seemed more like everyone benefits as it's consumer based taxes?

If you Only Skimmed that means You don't really KNOW what it said. Try again Robbie.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Nibedicus
So basically a non-profit that provides public good is a good reason to be tax exempt?

If PP doesn't generate a profit, where does all the money for lobbying come from?

I don't know what Lakewood Church is so how should I know?

I am done indulging people who can ask questions of others, but cannot answer questions posed to them, for the day.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Playmaker
Then please explain what is fair.

That churches, pastors, and parishioners pay taxes. I think that is fairly clear.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Emperordmb
My stance is that they should be able to choose between tax exempt or spending money politically but not both.

That is the system we have now, and it is clearly not working.

Focus on the Family recently declared itself a church so it does not have to publicly disclose its donors or its earnings.

They are effectively using the tax exempt status granted to churches to launder unlimited amounts of dark money in conservative politics.

dadudemon
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
That churches, pastors, and parishioners pay taxes. I think that is fairly clear.

While I agree that it is fair, you didn't answer "why", you answered "who."





I think it is fair if churches, charities, everyone have to pay taxes. With no one getting an exemption. Because no one can exploit the system and legitimate charities, under certain tax systems, would have no issues paying taxes.

Nibedicus
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I am done indulging people who can ask questions of others, but cannot answer questions posed to them, for the day.

You asked me a question that I have no information on and I answered honestly instead of pretending to know something I do not. How is that not an answer? Why be upset over ppl being honest to you?

ArtificialGlory
Megachurches and Televangelists should be taxed into oblivion.

Rockydonovang
I should have clarified, they --currently-- don't have a representative.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by cdtm
Why are charities and universities?
that's the point, they aren't treated like other non profits.

cdtm
Originally posted by Nibedicus
So basically a non-profit that provides public good is a good reason to be tax exempt?

If PP doesn't generate a profit, where does all the money for lobbying come from?

I don't know what Lakewood Church is so how should I know?

Donations.

It takes money to run anything, or do anything. Only homeless bums can organize without paying.

Wonder Man
God say's to see and you will find your answer. There are many things that will remain unknown to others. If you are careing for someone specific Nibedicus focus on your timetable and keep up the good work.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Wonder Man
There are many things that will remain unknown to others. If you are careing for someone specific Nibedicus focus on your timetable and keep up the good work.
So god's running an oligarchy?

Nibedicus
Originally posted by cdtm
Donations.

It takes money to run anything, or do anything. Only homeless bums can organize without paying.

Isn't it donations+? Doesn't PP charge for its services? Are those services not tax free?

Well, not speaking for all religions here (obviously) but the Catholic Church where I am gets like the vast majority of its income from donations as well. I know there are charges to specific services (like performing ceremonies like weddings). I mean why the want to tax religions now?

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I mean why the want to tax religions now?
I mean if you look at the person who made this thread and their posting history, it should be obvious that they have a particular animus against religion.

Rockydonovang
I don't careif you tax religions, I care that the law is consistently applied. Religious institutions shouldn't be getting especially favorable treatment:





So I take it you support religious institutions getting special treatment that other non profits don't?

And again DMB, you're better off reading what I say than assuming what I said. I asked why the institutions are "automatically" tax exempt when other non profits have to file for their non profit status:




Seriously. Why do people keep consistently misrepresenting what I say?

Nibedicus
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I don't careif you tax religions, I care that the law is consistently applied. Religious institutions shouldn't be getting especially favorable treatment:

So I take it you support religious institutions getting special treatment that other non profits don't?

What law are you saying needs to be consistently applied?

Because religions have special protection under the first amendment (and the Supreme Court agrees), and you do still need the government to recognize your religion (although the requirements for such aren't as stringent as they should be, and I agree it should be strict). If the SC agrees that religion does get special treatment, doesn't it look more like that you disagree with the law (freedom of religion and separation of Church and state) rather than want it consistently applied?

Robtard
Freedom from taxation is in the First Amendment?

Nibedicus
Originally posted by Robtard
Freedom from taxation is in the First Amendment?

Did I say that?

Robtard
You implied it when you said "Because religions have special protection under the first amendment" and the discussion is about taxing religious institutions.

Nibedicus
Originally posted by Robtard
You implied it when you said "Because religions have special protection under the first amendment" and the discussion is about taxing religious institutions.

Pls reread the quotes and what I was replying to. I am careful about separating (via paragraphs) replies to specific comments. Normally I number them but I found it unnecessary as there are really only 2.

My comment was specific to Rocky's question about:

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
So I take it you support religious institutions getting special treatment that other non profits don't?

My reply was "it gets special treatment (vs other non-profits) because the constitution actually does give it special treatment (via the first amendment)". So my question was predicated on his concern for consistency on the application of law.

Robtard
Okay

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Pls reread the quotes and what I was replying to. I am careful about separating (via paragraphs) replies to specific comments. Normally I number them but I found it unnecessary as there are really only 2.

My comment was specific to Rocky's question about:



My reply was "it gets special treatment (vs other non-profits) because the constitution actually does give it special treatment (via the first amendment)". So my question was predicated on his concern for consistency on the application of law.
That bit was @dmb,not you, sorry.

I'll repeat,here's the thing i want consistently applied:


If the first amendment really allows religions to get special privileges other non profits don't, that's shameful.

Freedom of religion should not translate to privilege of religion.

Nibedicus
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
That bit was @dmb,not you, sorry.

I'll repeat,here's the thing i want consistently applied:

If the first amendment really allows religions to get special privileges other non profits don't, that's shameful.

Freedom of religion should not translate to privilege of religion.

Churches function and are seen differently by the law compared to your standard non-profit and are given different protection by different laws.

So, tell me if I'm getting this right, your contention is not the fact that Churches are tax exempt (similar to many non profits) but more on the advantages it gets over other non-profits in the advantages it has over "other" non-profits on certain technical tax rules (the ones you noted above)?

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Churches function and are seen differently by the law compared to your standard non-profit and are given different protection by different laws.

So, tell me if I'm getting this right, your contention is not the fact that Churches are tax exempt (similar to many non profits) but more on the advantages it gets over other non-profits in the advantages it has over "other" non-profits on certain technical tax rules (the ones you noted above)?
Yep.

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