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Slugfest.

a). In the rain
b). The rain has just stopped, so Namor is hydrated, but not constantly

Who wins?

i think i would take namor in one and vision in 2. vihz has been depicted a couple times as a near equal to simon at max density. i think namor tops out above that, slightly. it would be a long battle though. which is why i think vision would win the second one.

Originally posted by leonidas
i think i would take namor in one and vision in 2. vihz has been depicted a couple times as a near equal to simon at max density. i think namor tops out above that, slightly. it would be a long battle though. which is why i think vision would win the second one.
That makes sense to me.

People sleep on Vision but he is a legit powerhouse. Having said that I still think Namor wins after a very good fight assuming this is strictly H2H like the OP stated.

I do not think Namor is above Wonderman at his peak. Durability the negabomb will always put Simon above pretty much everyone. As for strength and speed, Simon is faster and in my opinion stronger. The Abomination and Red Hulk fights put Simon above Namor. Wonderman gets no love Leo.

Namor has beaten Wonder Man, Abomination, and Red Hulk...

Originally posted by Putinbot1
I do not think Namor is above Wonderman at his peak. Durability the negabomb will always put Simon above pretty much everyone. As for strength and speed, Simon is faster and in my opinion stronger. The Abomination fights put Simon above Namor. Wonderman gets no love Leo.
You do realize that Abomination was absolutely slaughtering Simon till Simon exploited the environment (power cables) to KO Abomination right? If those power cables weren't there, Simon would be a dead man, again.

Originally posted by zopzop
People sleep on Vision but he is a legit powerhouse. Having said that I still think Namor wins after a very good fight assuming this is strictly H2H like the OP stated.
Yeah, Vision is underrated.
Still, each scenario favors one character, imo. Pretty fair thread, actually.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
I do not think Namor is above Wonderman at his peak. Durability the negabomb will always put Simon above pretty much everyone. As for strength and speed, Simon is faster and in my opinion stronger. The Abomination and Red Hulk fights put Simon above Namor. Wonderman gets no love Leo.

i dunno, maybe. simon did struggle with abomination more than namor. still, i'd think a fight between namor and simon would be terribly close. simon might be the more durable, and namor might be the stronger. maybe. be really close to a split imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
i dunno, maybe. simon did struggle with abomination more than namor. still, i'd think a fight between namor and simon would be terribly close. simon might be the more durable, and namor might be the stronger. maybe. be really close to a split imo.
They already fought. A DYING Namor handled Simon till he got distracted by Whizzer. In a case of supreme irony the scans Team Simon used to prove Wonder Man would beat Namor in a fight backfired spectacularly!

Originally posted by zopzop
They already fought. A DYING Namor handled Simon till he got distracted by Whizzer. In a case of supreme irony the scans Team Simon used to prove Wonder Man would beat Namor in a fight backfired spectacularly!

yeah i've seen that fight. i think if they fought now things might be different. simon has changed a bit since way back when they fought and has had some pretty good showings against guys in namor's weight class. i think it would for sure be more competitive at the least. /shrug

no one has ever really found something to make simon...fit. he's always been such an odd character in all his various incarnations.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Namor has beaten Wonder Man, Abomination, and Red Hulk... And Wonderman has knocked Namor out in Invaders, proving Wonderman can take Namor out, regardless of context.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
And Wonderman has knocked Namor out in Invaders.
WWII era Namor tooled Wonder Man and Ares SIMULTANEOUSLY. I think you got it backwards friend.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah i've seen that fight. i think if they fought now things might be different. simon has changed a bit since way back when they fought and has had some pretty good showings against guys in namor's weight class. i think it would for sure be more competitive at the least. /shrug

no one has ever really found something to make simon...fit. he's always been such an odd character in all his various incarnations. Simon is rarely used well.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
And Wonderman has knocked Namor out in Invaders, proving Wonderman can take Namor out, regardless of context. Makes sense.

Originally posted by zopzop
WWII era Namor tooled Wonder Man and Ares SIMULTANEOUSLY. I think you got it backwards friend. You're right, I'm thinking of when Simon drove Namor into a ships Bulkhead not through it and then punched him on the jaw knocking him out cold.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MVEaxclKtI4/VXt_ngHp22I/AAAAAAAAoFM/lxGK78Rggss/s1600/av155_30.jpg Regardless of context Wonderman can knock Namor out.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
You're right, I'm thinking of when Simon drove Namor into a ships Bulkhead not through it and then punched him on the jaw knocking him out cold.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MVEaxclKtI4/VXt_ngHp22I/AAAAAAAAoFM/lxGK78Rggss/s1600/av155_30.jpg Regardless of context Wonderman can knock Namor out. It's a cheap shot but Attuma as well.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CfnFHqG5NOY/VXt_aghQwrI/AAAAAAAAoE0/Y7vDSK3HAEQ/s1600/av155_17.jpg

Simon had self-imposed mental blocks until the late 80s when he came clean about his past crimes to the public. After that, he received a power boost. Just an FYI for people here.

Yeah, mental blocks only count for certain characters.

But yeah once he dropped the blocks he became a real douche nozzle fir a while.

Originally posted by operator616
Simon had self-imposed mental blocks until the late 80s when he came clean about his past crimes to the public. After that, he received a power boost. Just an FYI for people here. Then, in my opinion, he got a second power boost after the nega bomb. I agree with Riv he was a douche for a while in west coast Avengers but by the time his series came around things had changed. My favourite Wonderman run was actually prior to this in Marvel Premiere as a backup story.

Originally posted by operator616
Simon had self-imposed mental blocks until the late 80s when he came clean about his past crimes to the public. After that, he received a power boost. Just an FYI for people here.

damn that was a long time ago. i actually remember that but don't remember where that was actually shown to be true. any idea where that was proven?

Originally posted by leonidas
damn that was a long time ago. i actually remember that but don't remember where that was actually shown to be true. any idea where that was proven? West Coast Avengers pretty much showed it to be true in my opinion.

Originally posted by leonidas
damn that was a long time ago. i actually remember that but don't remember where that was actually shown to be true. any idea where that was proven?
West Coast Avengers, it all went down there.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Then, in my opinion, he got a second power boost after the nega bomb. I agree with Riv he was a douche for a while in west coast Avengers but by the time his series came around things had changed. My favourite Wonderman run was actually prior to this in Marvel Premiere as a backup story.

In wonder man's solo series? He didn't receive an amp, he just depowered himself and then restored them, after which he explored his powers further. It's exactly the same thing he's doing recently, in fact.

Originally posted by leonidas
damn that was a long time ago. i actually remember that but don't remember where that was actually shown to be true. any idea where that was proven?

It was right after he trashed Ultron-11. It was a gradual development.

Here is one from WCA #8: https://imgur.com/HWprovn

This another one from WCA #31: https://imgur.com/vQSC5CV

He went from a confirmed below thor level strength (previous avengers stories confirmed it) to a confirmed Thor+ level strength (WCA series). It was quite a clear development of power. Similar to what Superman underwent with Mongul (II) and after that.

I remember back in the day people used to preach about Wonderman lifting and island. It's been a few years since I saw that one though.

Originally posted by operator616
In wonder man's solo series? He didn't receive an amp, he just depowered himself and then restored them, after which he explored his powers further. It's exactly the same thing he's doing recently, in fact.



It was right after he trashed Ultron-11. It was a gradual development.

Here is one from WCA #8: https://imgur.com/HWprovn

This another one from WCA #31: https://imgur.com/vQSC5CV

He went from a confirmed below thor level strength (previous avengers stories confirmed it) to a confirmed Thor+ level strength (WCA series). It was quite a clear development of power. Similar to what Superman underwent with Mongul (II) and after that. It was pretty much why Mephisto was so interested in him in my opinion. He is that powerful, but most people do not realise that or want to.

Originally posted by operator616
In wonder man's solo series? He didn't receive an amp, he just depowered himself and then restored them, after which he explored his powers further. It's exactly the same thing he's doing recently, in fact.



It was right after he trashed Ultron-11. It was a gradual development.

Here is one from WCA #8: https://imgur.com/HWprovn

This another one from WCA #31: https://imgur.com/vQSC5CV

He went from a confirmed below thor level strength (previous avengers stories confirmed it) to a confirmed Thor+ level strength (WCA series). It was quite a clear development of power. Similar to what Superman underwent with Mongul (II) and after that.
I remember reading the letters pages back then, as fans began noticing the change(s).

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I remember back in the day people used to preach about Wonderman lifting and island. It's been a few years since I saw that one though. Yeah, Hydrobase.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I remember back in the day people used to preach about Wonderman lifting and island. It's been a few years since I saw that one though. Originally posted by Putinbot1
Yeah, Hydrobase.
He never lifted it. The lava men that formed a huge column lifted it. He was balancing it but it was too heavy so the Invisible Woman had to step in and help.

Thor never lifted it. It's a floating island, he was just dragging it in the ocean like a tug boat drags an ocean liner.

Quasar lifted it a few inches for a few seconds.

Originally posted by zopzop
He never lifted it. The lava men that formed a huge column lifted it. He was balancing it but it was too heavy so the Invisible Woman had to step in and help.

Thor never lifted it. It's a floating island, he was just dragging it in the ocean like a tug boat drags an ocean liner.

Quasar lifted it a few inches for a few seconds. He lifted the end of it balancing it. Wow, you are one of these guys who really hates a character... Newsflash: It's a story and subjective.

Yeah but lifting one end is quite different from lifting the whole thing....

Still impressive though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah but lifting one end is quite different from lifting the whole thing....

Still impressive though. Umm, when a strongman lifts up the end of a car we say he lifted the car... It was just like a strongman lift and what was amazing was his belt jets held up, they usually burnt out under far less.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Umm, when a strongman lifts up the end of a car we say he lifted the car... It was just like a strongman lift and what was amazing was his belt jets held up, they usually burnt out under far less.

Yeah, but it doesn't make it accurate.

And not as impressive as say, if that strongman lifted the entire car and curled it or whatever. Pressed it overhead, whatever you want to use.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, but it doesn't make it accurate.

And not as impressive as say, if that strongman lifted the entire car and curled it or whatever. Pressed it overhead, whatever you want to use. You confuse accuracy for completeness, the information is incomplete but accurate. He lifted an Object. He being Wonderman and the object being Hydrobase. This is accurate. It omits how much of the object he lifted. This means the information is incomplete.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
You confuse accuracy for completeness, the information is incomplete but accurate. He lifted an Object. He being Wonderman and the object being Hydrobase. This is accurate. It omits how much of the object he lifted. This means the information is incomplete.
True.

So we agree, not as impressive as lifting it on his own.

So zopzop was accurate, if incomplete. Wonder Man never lifted an object. The statement omits the phrase 'on his own'.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
True.

So we agree, not as impressive as lifting it on his own.

So zopzop was accurate, if incomplete. Wonder Man never lifted an object. The statement omits the phrase 'on his own'. He lifted Hydrobase on his own, he just needed help to lift it all.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
He lifted Hydrobase on his own, he just needed help to lift it all.

So he did not lift Hydrobase, he lifted part of it.

No more than me lifting a car tire = me lifting the entire car.

Namor destroys Vision.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
He lifted the end of it balancing it. Wow, you are one of these guys who really hates a character... Newsflash: It's a story and subjective. Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, but it doesn't make it accurate.

And not as impressive as say, if that strongman lifted the entire car and curled it or whatever. Pressed it overhead, whatever you want to use.
Yes, he was BALANCING a portion of it and he was straining his ass off. Even then he needed help from Invisible Woman or he would have failed.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yes, he was BALANCING a portion of it and he was straining his ass off. Even then he needed help from Invisible Woman or he would have failed. Semantics.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Semantics.

No, it's not, really.

"Full density" he beat Wanda. Result was 2 fake kids.

Originally posted by Delta1938
No, it's not, really. Are you sure?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
"Full density" he beat Wanda. Result was 2 fake kids.



Originally posted by Putinbot1
Are you sure?

Yes.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
"Full density" he beat Wanda. Result was 2 fake kids.



Probably the best Vision post on this site, ever.

Originally posted by Delta1938




Yes. You sound sure, but sometimes yes means no according to Donald Trump anyway.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
You sound sure, but sometimes yes means no according to Donald Trump anyway.


I haven't seen the feat itself, but you seem to be agreeing that he balanced it. So, going with that, correcting he balanced part of it and not lifting the actual island, because "lifted Hydrobase" would mean he actually lifted Hydrobase and not part of it, isn't semantics. It's pointing out you're wrong.

Whatever Namor has done, it's easily more impressive than scarce few Vision's pure strength feats, tbh...

Originally posted by Delta1938
I haven't seen the feat itself, but you seem to be agreeing that he balanced it. So, going with that, correcting he balanced part of it and not lifting the actual island, because "lifted Hydrobase" would mean he actually lifted Hydrobase and not part of it, isn't semantics. It's pointing out you're wrong. Not really as my statement stated he lifted Hydrobase, others inferred I meant al of it. If I lift the leg of a chair to look under it snd I describe it as "I lifted the chair to look under it", the description is still correct.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Semantics. Originally posted by Delta1938
I haven't seen the feat itself, but you seem to be agreeing that he balanced it. So, going with that, correcting he balanced part of it and not lifting the actual island, because "lifted Hydrobase" would mean he actually lifted Hydrobase and not part of it, isn't semantics. It's pointing out you're wrong.
He is completely wrong. And looking back it's even WORSE than what I expected. It was Sue that stepped in first to balance the island :
https://s15.postimg.cc/rm9gkan5j/image.jpg

But she was straining because the column kept crumbling, then Simon steps in to help :
https://s15.postimg.cc/euvadw89j/image.jpg https://s15.postimg.cc/l8kdh5kvb/image.jpg
Then Sue steps it up again and shields the column in her force field in a way Reed suggested. The pillar was taking the majority of the weight, which is why Reed wanted it to crumble.

As it continues to crumble, Simon is GONE. It's the Pillar and Sue that are doing all the work :
https://s15.postimg.cc/l9ywnzrev/image.jpg https://s15.postimg.cc/ji5xt3frr/image.jpg https://s15.postimg.cc/5ohl41uw7/image.jpg
Simon was only balancing it for the briefest of moments! LOL.

Now compare this to Namor balancing Utopia while the mutants setup the pylons.

So autistic and serious. I've been ****ing with you for two pages.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Not really as my statement stated he lifted Hydrobase, others inferred I meant al of it. If I lift the leg of a chair to look under it snd I describe it as "I lifted the chair to look under it", the description is still correct.

Well it looks like it's not even as good as you're trying to argue, even if we accept your argument that it's just semantics.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
So autistic and serious. I've been ****ing with you for two pages.

So you say after the actual scene is given. Triggered.

Seriously, short answers should be a clue kid. Hey, ho.