Second most knowledgable Force user after Palpatine

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The Ellimist
Not including entities like the Ones or Sekot

Nephthys
Valkorion, obviously (is number 1).

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Nephthys
Valkorion, obviously (is number 1).

The Ellimist
lol

AncientPower
As if anyone compares to Jerec. (Except for post-Nathema Vitiate, obviously, given Thought Bomb scaling.)

Freedon Nadd
Originally posted by The Ellimist
lol

Palpatine just had more stored Force knowledge in his temples or vaults. That doesn't mean he studied all of it. Given there are things he wasn't aware of(such as how to prevent his body decay) It further proves his (mental) Force knowledge is likely below Vitiate's.

snoke123
Jerec, After channelling the Valley of the Jedi's power, he was able to cause supernovas with a thought.

Azronger
Valley of the Jedi amped Jerec is actually a good pick for number 2 after Sheev.

AncientPower
That's actually retarded. Jerec had all knowledge ever, you literally can't have more knowledge than that.

MythLord
Vergere. smile

Azronger
Originally posted by MythLord
Vergere. smile

Hmm, accolades?

Haschwalth
Originally posted by AncientPower
That's actually retarded. Jerec had all knowledge ever, you literally can't have more knowledge than that.
^ Az really screwed up with that one.

Haschwalth
Anyway force users.
This would mean the father/son/abeloth/daughter. all should have more knowledge than Palps.

Kurk
What makes Sheev the most knowledgeable? Most powerful, sure.

Unbowed
I doubt Palpatine even reached Plagueis' level.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Azronger
Valley of the Jedi amped Jerec is actually a good pick for number 2 after Sheev.
wtf lol

The_Tempest
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Not including entities like the Ones or Sekot

After the Emperor, Plagueis and Failkorion are likely contenders. Yoda, Luke, Caedus, and Odan Urr as well? Revan, too.

Unbowed
Actually it's canon that Snoke is more knowledgeable than Sidious since Snoke had lore that Sidious lusted over but never found.

The_Tempest

quanchi112

TheIndyJedi
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
wtf lol

He's gotta be trolling.

Galan007
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, it's canon that Snoke claims to possess knowledge Sheev allegedly lusted after. Indeed.

By virtue of living in the Unknown Regions for so long, Snoke had evidently learned "truths" about the force that Palpatine sought(but never discovered) prior to his death. This doesn't necessarily imply that Snoke's *overall* knowledge exceeded Palpatine's, however -- just implies that he possessed a few nuggets of information that Palpatine wanted.

Could that change in future canon? Sure. But as of now, I think people tend to read-into that excerpt a bit too much. /shrug

Azronger
Originally posted by Haschwalth
^ Az really screwed up with that one.

Yes, Jerec totally had "all knowledge ever" since he could clearly predict how Kyle Katarn would kill him... You know, if we start taking hyperbole at face value, Sheev has this:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vmJ8Ex9FTYE/WstdPNx4veI/AAAAAAAAKY4/-wuaKqGYCLIpBA2RW4npBEmp4Dv5omHDgCL0BGAYYCw/h178/7786593580271628590%253Faccount_id%253D1
Vader: The Ultimate Guide

So how does it go again? Ah yes.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I'm actually retarded. Sheev had all knowledge ever, you literally can't have more knowledge than that.

DarthAnt66
The Jerec stuff isn't hyperbole, rofl. And Katarn Wall of Light'd him as he obtained nigh-omniscience.

The quote you cited is blatantly from Vader's POV, lol.

Azronger
However, now that I take a look at the quote again, admittedly Sheev may not possess exactly that level of pristine clarity and trivial know-how but he's not far off either.

Azronger
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Jerec stuff isn't hyperbole, rofl. And Katarn Wall of Light'd him as he obtained nigh-omniscience.

The quote you cited is blatantly from Vader's POV, lol.

Yes, and if he'd had "absolute omniscience" as the quote says he would have known Kyle would sneak attack him. In fact, even you describe it as "nigh-omniscience" so... concession accepted?

Is the guide book from Vader's POV or no?

Zentrex
Luke, duh. He even went back in time to the Aing Tii. I'm pretty sure he knows almost all there is to know about the force.




Oh, and Jerec being omnincient is stupid, it's hyperbole.

Darth Abonis
That Arkanian Jedi

Freedon Nadd
Originally posted by AncientPower
That's actually retarded. Jerec had all knowledge ever, you literally can't have more knowledge than that.

Since when does a Force boost increase your knowledge? You want to say that 'eating' souls stores information? That is really stupid.

AncientPower
It's literally fvcking stated that he achieved all knowledge ever.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Azronger
Yes, and if he'd had "absolute omniscience" as the quote says he would have known Kyle would sneak attack him. In fact, even you describe it as "nigh-omniscience" so... concession accepted?

Is the guide book from Vader's POV or no?
I didn't know the contention was semantics, lol.

If you get hit by a baseball the same instant you know it's about to hit you, there's nothing you can do about that.

That line is pretty blatantly in the same POV as stuff like the Kas'im quote.

Zentrex
Oh, and in the new canon, probably Yoda. He seemed to know more about the World Between Worlds, and we know from TCW that he knows the whole thing with the Force priestesses, and unlike in legends, there are no quotes implying Sidious would have knowledge of that.

Jocasta Nu is another possible candidate.

And Jerec defenitely isn't.

Azronger
@Ant

I mean, he wasn't just "omniscient"; per the text he was also "endowed with Force powers beyond imagination," and "would have ruled accordingly," so honestly if he was aware of Katarn's ploy, he would've tanked his wall of light, or just slowed down time, and decimated him.

If the book is overall from a third person, out-of-universe narrator, then there's no reason to assume it would suddenly switch to Vader's perspective. There's no change in focalization in what's essentially the equivalent of an academic text describing an objective account of events, unless it's a direct quotation of someone's words, which in this case it isn't. If it were a novel your point would have merit, but the words are honestly perfectly valid as something an all-knowing narrator would say and your comparison to Path of Destruction is nothing but a false analogy.

Given that, you're presented with two options: take the hyperbole seriously, in which case Valley Jerec and the Emperor would be equals, or accept both as obvious embellishment. I see no reason for you to not choose the second one, as I've already conceded the Emperor isn't quite on Valley Jerec's level when it comes to such unerring clairvoyance, so you really have nothing to lose here.

Azronger
Another accolade labelling the Emperor "omniscient". Gotta extract all that wank smile

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EsdJmaIYWKY/WxyYW6aYifI/AAAAAAAAQL4/yqvDY8iF13ckEJDekzekIyphPA8adHQYACL0BGAYYCw/h327/Omniscient%2BSheev.PNG
The Art and Making of the Force Unleashed

AncientPower
FFS.

One Big Mob
I don't think anyone who has ever been called omniscient who has had a fight in any media has ever avoided getting hit in a fight. I don't think that's enough to rule out his actual knowledge.

Then you look at it, and you ask if he's speaking about Force knowledge or just all knowledge of the universe? Is he talking about knowing everything about the usage of the force or is he talking about knowing that Han Solo is cheating on Leia at that very moment? There's a slight but very important difference.

He might not have had creator level omniscience, but it's very possible and what we're led to believe that he knew everything about the force.

If you shift this to a real life example, you can take Kurk. He knows everything there is to know about Raven porn. In this context, he is omniscient. Yet he doesn't foresee how badly his life is going to go downhill because of this. That doesn't take away his knowledge of that specific subject, it just means it's relevant only to a specific aspect.


Of course this creates issues of why he didn't counter wall of light but that's an oversight from people who needed him beaten somehow. Sometimes writers just don't fully put forth the thought into a subject.

Freedon Nadd
Another epic fail from Azronger. big grin

Galan007
Originally posted by One Big Mob
I don't think anyone who has ever been called omniscient who has had a fight in any media has ever avoided getting hit in a fight. I don't think that's enough to rule out his actual knowledge.

Then you look at it, and you ask if he's speaking about Force knowledge or just all knowledge of the universe? Is he talking about knowing everything about the usage of the force or is he talking about knowing that Han Solo is cheating on Leia at that very moment? There's a slight but very important difference.

He might not have had creator level omniscience, but it's very possible and what we're led to believe that he knew everything about the force. thumb up

I also think it's telling that Vader(who was accustomed to Yoda's level of 'knowingness') was still awestruck by the sheer breadth of Palpatine's knowledge/precog at times... A fact that still holds true in canon, btw.

Freedon Nadd
Palpatine's level of knowledge is around a Dark Councilor's.

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