Sentry vs. Shadow King

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Wonder Man
What do you think?

tkitna
Its going to end up being the Void versus Shadow King and I'm uncertain of the outcome to be honest.

RealityWarper
Sentry win via telepathy without effort.

In fact, Farouk will attack Sentry telepathically and get pwned.

zopzop
Sentry is more powerful, Shadow King is more skilled.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by zopzop
Sentry is more powerful, Shadow King is more skilled.

telepathically? im leaning toward SK

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sin I AM
telepathically? im leaning toward SK

Sentry removed the memories of everyone on Earth and Moon casually.

Rage.Of.Olympus
In terms of raw power, Sentry is definitely above Shadow King telepathically. He didn't just mind wipe the MU, he erased himself from existence on a level that was basically reality manipulation. Entire events changed to fill the void of his existence in all corners of Marvel including the Inhumans, X-men, Avengers, Shield etc.

People bring up MM but that was imo his most impressive feat of power.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Sentry removed the memories of everyone on Earth and Moon casually.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In terms of raw power, Sentry is definitely above Shadow King telepathically. He didn't just mind wipe the MU, he erased himself from existence on a level that was basically reality manipulation. Entire events changed to fill the void of his existence in all corners of Marvel including the Inhumans, X-men, Avengers, Shield etc.

People bring up MM but that was imo his most impressive feat of power.

shared feat

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sin I AM
shared feat

Nope.

He did it under his own power.

Iron Man confirmed it during Civil War.

Reed Richards implied Sentry did it many times.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Nope.

He did it under his own power.

Iron Man confirmed it during Civil War.

Reed Richards implied Sentry did it many times.

naw youre mistaken. he had help with the mind wipe. it was a shared feat

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sin I AM
naw youre mistaken. he had help with the mind wipe. it was a shared feat

He didn't have help.

He was tricked to use his telepathy to erase the memories of everyone, even his own.

Enzeru
Originally posted by Sin I AM

naw youre mistaken. he had help with the mind wipe. it was a shared feat

The mind wipe happened multiple times. The last time it happened Sentry performed it on his own, without the help of Reed Richards and Doctor Strange.

This was the shared version:



This is where Sentry did it with his own power:



Here is Sentry stating, that he can remove entire events from history books thanks to his power:

Sin I AM
Originally posted by RealityWarper
He didn't have help.

He was tricked to use his telepathy to erase the memories of everyone, even his own.

this doesnt help your case, shadow king will do the same. reynolds is always a pawn.

Originally posted by Enzeru
The mind wipe happened multiple times. The last time it happened Sentry performed it on his own, without the help of Reed Richards and Doctor Strange.

This was the shared version:



This is where Sentry did it with his own power:



Here is Sentry stating, that he can remove entire events from history books thanks to his power:

never said it wasnt his power. im saying its a shared feat for both sets of scans you provided.

the last set is hyperbole

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sin I AM
this doesnt help your case, shadow king will do the same. reynolds is always a pawn.



never said it wasnt his power. im saying its a shared feat for both sets of scans you provided.

the last set is hyperbole

Shadow King never did the same.

It help my case because Reynolds effortlessly affected the SK wit h this attack.

Enzeru
Originally posted by Sin I AM

this doesnt help your case, shadow king will do the same. reynolds is always a pawn.

Shadow King takes other peoples free will and makes them do what he wants. No one ever came close to doing that to the Sentry. Every time they invaded his mind they got wrecked.
Sentry got manipulated by people, who studied him and manipulated / persuaded him into doing things on his own, because he thought it was the right thing to do.

Originally posted by Sin I AM

never said it wasnt his power. im saying its a shared feat for both sets of scans you provided.

Stop? Mastermind doesn't have the power to do what the Sentry did. Mastermind just manipulated him into doing these things. There is nothing shared about it. Someone telling you to beat the crap out of someone isn't a shared feat for the both of you. The actual action and damage are done by you.

Originally posted by Sin I AM

the last set is hyperbole

Stop? It would be hyperbole if the Sentry didn't have the ability to not only erase memories of people, but to also force them to completely ignore any evidence that points at that said memory.

DarkSaint85
If Mastermind can manipulate him, SK (who is, imo, more experienced and shitty like that) can do so too.

Agreed with the posts here.

Sentry is more powerful.

SK is more skilled.

Rage.Of.Olympus
@Sin It was Sentry's power that did the mind wipe.

The SK entering Sentry's mind would be like worst idea guys, common. If he's lucky, Sentry freaks out and flys away crying. Or he could get mad and rip him in half. Or if it's a BAD day, the Void would tentacle rape him in the dark place.

Entering the Sentry's mind when Reynolds is cooperating is very different from entering it in a fight.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Enzeru
Shadow King takes other peoples free will and makes them do what he wants. No one ever came close to doing that to the Sentry. Every time they invaded his mind they got wrecked.
Sentry got manipulated by people, who studied him and manipulated / persuaded him into doing things on his own, because he thought it was the right thing to do.



Stop? Mastermind doesn't have the power to do what the Sentry did. Mastermind just manipulated him into doing these things. There is nothing shared about it. Someone telling you to beat the crap out of someone isn't a shared feat for the both of you. The actual action and damage are done by you.



Stop? It would be hyperbole if the Sentry didn't have the ability to not only erase memories of people, but to also force them to completely ignore any evidence that points at that said memory.

agree to disagree. great points but in my opinion he was mind raped by Wynn and has been manipulated more times than not to suggest he could beat a high order psi whose whole tacticnis manipulation

@Rage i never said it wasnt. But it was a shared feat akin to Emma schooling Iceman on his powers..yea its your car but someone else is driving

Enzeru
Originally posted by Sin I AM

agree to disagree. great points but in my opinion he was mind raped by Wynn and has been manipulated more times than not to suggest he could beat a high order psi whose whole tacticnis manipulation

Read the Mastermind scans. Mastermind says that the stronger the opposing mind is, the more effective his powers are. So in a way Mastermind is tailor made to affect the Sentry and Sentry did more harm to himself. Shadow King does not have the same effect on his powers.

Doctor Strange has powerful PSI magic. He couldn't contain the Sentry. The combined powers of Xavier and Emma Frost couldn't contain the Sentry. What makes you think that Shadow King can, who has lost to Xavier?
I do think that Shadow King could affect the Sentry after a year long ambush and mental manipulation. But in a straight up fight? It's easier to make more compelling arguments for the Sentry.

And IMO that's not an agree-disagree topic. Pizza with pineapple being disgusting is an agree-disagree topic. While it's almost a fact that Shadow King can't just take Sentry out with telepathy in a straight up fight. If the combined powers of Xavier and Emma Frost can't, then neither can his.

Wonder Man
Shared feat. Sentry's telepathy was compared to a low level telepath.
It was his high intelligence that made the Sentry into the Sentry.

Enzeru
Originally posted by Wonder Man

Shared feat. Sentry's telepathy was compared to a low level telepath.
It was his high intelligence that made the Sentry into the Sentry.

Sorry, but that made me actually laugh out loud. What does all of that even mean? It's hilarious either way.

Wonder Man
The origins of Sentry were explained in the intro to Marvel like marvel always explains their character.
Check out 616 or you missed the plot.
This is also the policy marvel movies followed to get so big.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Wonder Man
The origins of Sentry were explained in the intro to Marvel like marvel always explains their character.
Check out 616 or you missed the plot.
This is also the policy marvel movies followed to get so big.

Is Dvampyre your alt account ?

Wonder Man
I only have one account
Sentry had no superpower before he put his costume on and Marvel answered it was because of his high level intellect that he became powered.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Enzeru
Read the Mastermind scans. Mastermind says that the stronger the opposing mind is, the more effective his powers are. So in a way Mastermind is tailor made to affect the Sentry and Sentry did more harm to himself. Shadow King does not have the same effect on his powers.

Doctor Strange has powerful PSI magic. He couldn't contain the Sentry. The combined powers of Xavier and Emma Frost couldn't contain the Sentry. What makes you think that Shadow King can, who has lost to Xavier?
I do think that Shadow King could affect the Sentry after a year long ambush and mental manipulation. But in a straight up fight? It's easier to make more compelling arguments for the Sentry.

And IMO that's not an agree-disagree topic. Pizza with pineapple being disgusting is an agree-disagree topic. While it's almost a fact that Shadow King can't just take Sentry out with telepathy in a straight up fight. If the combined powers of Xavier and Emma Frost can't, then neither can his.

I read the book. I get it he is powerful. Still doesnt negate that he was controlled and the void is a direct reflection of said control. So years after Mastermind was gone Sentry was still enthralled in his illusion. Astral/battles are just as much about power as they are about finesse and skill.

Strange used magic/science to try and contain Sentry. It wasnt straight tp

ABC logic?

Enzeru
Originally posted by Wonder Man

The origins of Sentry were explained in the intro to Marvel like marvel always explains their character.
Check out 616 or you missed the plot.
This is also the policy marvel movies followed to get so big.

I honestly still don't know what the point is you're trying to make. I just know that it somehow sounds wrong. But I'm still not sure as to what to debunk. Anyway, you mentioned something along the lines of Sentry being a low level telepath:

Here is a scan of Emma Frost asking Professor X for help. She needs Xavier to enter the White Room she once built in Sentrys mind with Sentrys permission. So to even enter a zone in Sentrys mind she herself built, Emma Frost needs the help of another incredibly powerful telepath:
https://i.imgur.com/I9vb0HF.jpg

The idea of any telepath simply shutting the Sentry down with telepathy or beating him somehow else telepathically... is not something I'm willing to entertain all too lightly. Obviously due to the no limits fallacy I can't just say that Sentry is absolutely immune to telepathy and can't be stopped that way. But if the combined powers of Emma Frost and Professor X are not enough to simply beat the Sentry, then Shadow King won't be able to pull it off either.

Here is a scan of Emma entering the White Room and immediately getting noticed by the darkness of Sentrys mind (the Void). She is attacked and almost immediately defeated by the Void, who is oozing into the White Room:
https://i.imgur.com/9iWToAv.jpg

Here is a scan of Emma Frost in her diamond form, which shuts down her telepathy powers, but makes her invulnerable and in this case protects her from the Void. She has no idea where she is or what's going on. And if she leaves her diamond form, she dies:
https://i.imgur.com/0C5FPGV.jpg

Here is someone else entering Sentrys mind and immediately having to leave:
https://i.imgur.com/TvmFDSr.jpg

Why are we now supposed to assume that Shadow King could not only enter and stay in Sentrys mind but also beat him? Sentry has a track record of psionically overwhelming his opposition.

Enzeru
Originally posted by Sin I AM

I read the book. I get it he is powerful. Still doesnt negate that he was controlled and the void is a direct reflection of said control. So years after Mastermind was gone Sentry was still enthralled in his illusion. Astral/battles are just as much about power as they are about finesse and skill.

Strange used magic/science to try and contain Sentry. It wasnt straight tp

ABC logic?

1. Masterminds powers don't mind control people. He manipulates them with psionic suggestions. That's not really the same thing. Shadow King doesn't have Masterminds powers.

2. Molecule manipulation battles are also about finesse and skill, but how did that turn out for the Molecule Man, when he faced the Sentry? Sentrys raw power often dramatically overshadows his inexperience in certain areas.

3. Here is Sentrys dialogue after he breaks free from Doctor Stranges magic:



What difference does it make if it's magic or telepathy, which is being used to attack Sentrys mind? In the end of the day both methods didn't work. And Shadow King is reduced to only one method: telepathy. Telepathy actually inferior to Xaviers telepathy and I think we've seen how Xavier did against the Sentry: He couldn't stop him and he got his memories erased by the Sentry.

So far I haven't really seen arguments for the Shadow King, really. All I read is: "Shadow King has more experience therefore he wins". Not an argument though.

4. Again, you continue to use Mastermind as an argument for Shadow King, even though these two characters have completely different power sets, which also affect other characters completely different. As I said before: Mastermind is tailor made to affect the Sentry. Sentry has obviously an incredibly powerful mind and Masterminds powers work better on people with powerful minds. That doesn't apply for Shadow King. Shadow King needs to enter the fight against the Sentry, while being a weaker telepath than Xavier - whose track record against the Sentry isn't that great.

Originally posted by Wonder Man

Sentry had no superpower before he put his costume on and Marvel answered it was because of his high level intellect that he became powered.

Eeeh, what? Are we talking about the same character? Could you post a picture of the Sentry you have in mind?

StyleTime
To clear up a couple of things:

The idea that Xavier is above Shadow King is pretty outdated. He hasn't been for a while, admitting it himself both in the past and present.
https://postimg.cc/image/egjxv6at3/
https://postimg.cc/image/f2dyobrlj/

Most recently, Shadow King was able to manifest on the physical plane, and he subjugated all the minds on Earth while fighting the X-Men, Xavier and Omega-upgraded Psylocke included.
https://postimg.cc/image/fwvgcr8ev/
https://postimg.cc/image/6cbtpvqsn/
https://postimg.cc/image/d36jo9u07/

It took Xavier and Psylocke channeling every psychic on Marvel Earth to beat him. This is utterly insane.
https://postimg.cc/image/7dc2fl08n/
https://postimg.cc/image/en2ovel4n/
https://postimg.cc/image/46hivy82v/
https://postimg.cc/image/m9aln5w7r/
https://postimg.cc/image/9551agwg7/

Right before that, he imprisoned Proteus for 10,000 years on the astral plane and Xavier for what he suspects was 1,000+.
https://postimg.cc/image/epmki2h0n/
https://postimg.cc/image/gu6xj5qd3/
https://postimg.cc/image/c2awcmf6f/

He completely dominated Psylocke while keeping them captive too. Psylocke was able to send out a hemisphere-ish wide distress beacon though, to her credit.
https://postimg.cc/image/f3nwhabaf/
https://postimg.cc/image/ahrs8ysc7/
https://postimg.cc/image/up5819xjb/
https://postimg.cc/image/8d7f7vb9z/
https://postimg.cc/image/wgy6w5m13/

We can argue Proteus amped him a bit, but I'd argue that amp allowed him to breach the barrier into the material plane while still performing all his other actions. It's not like he hasn't demonstrated this level of power before. He's already smashed Xavier while mindcontrolling Legion, who was using Cerebro at the time of possession, and SK's possession remained even while his powers were dampened. Farouk was beating Xavier so badly, Xavier's bones were grinding into pieces in the real world.
https://postimg.cc/image/v0vv5rl3r/
https://postimg.cc/image/vqeni4td3/
https://postimg.cc/image/q28cr9jvr/
https://postimg.cc/image/ru1bm5nt3/
https://postimg.cc/image/m5v0v9r6f/
https://postimg.cc/image/b69tjnlbr/

And that's not even getting into the full scope of some of his feats, like how he animates dead bodies and broadcasts global hate waves while controlling folks and battling high order telepaths simultaneously. Combined with the fact that Shadow King feeds off darkness, he should wreck Sentry tbh. The Void would provide Farouk with a steady stream of fuel to do pretty much whatever he wants.

Additionally, Sentry's feat is being overblown. Yes, it's neat, but it's hardly a gamechanger. No one was resisting him, and psychics sneak little tricks/traps on each other all the time. Rachel and Emma have done it to Xavier, yet he's beaten both in fights. Xavier has also, on multiple occasions, done more impressive things like weaponize the psyches of entire planets.
Originally posted by Enzeru

Here is a scan of Emma Frost asking Professor X for help. She needs Xavier to enter the White Room she once built in Sentrys mind with Sentrys permission. So to even enter a zone in Sentrys mind she herself built, Emma Frost needs the help of another incredibly powerful telepath:
https://i.imgur.com/I9vb0HF.jpg

Xavier was still weakened from Osborn's power dampening torture when he assisted Emma.

leonidas
nice. sk almost never gets the credit he deserves. he'd take cassie nova out imo.
thumb up

Wonder Man
Remember the feats of intelligence Sentry performed when he got to earth and predicted all the volcanos and all the other disasters occuring on earth that he stopped.
Sentry was right about the volcano's eruption in Hawaii as well. Looks like the citizens there should have listened to the warning.

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