Fox Legion takes a Gauntlet

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Tom88
Bloodlusted

Win by death


Round 1. Legion vs MCU Scarlet Witch
Round 2. Legion vs MCU Hela
Round 3. Legion vs MCU Strange
Round 4. Legion vs MCU Thor (infinity movie)
Round 5. Legion vs Fox Magneto and Xavier
Round 6. Legion vs Fox Apocalypse
Round 7. Legion vs MCU Thanos (the same Thanos against Iron Man, Strange etc)

carthage
Clears

Thanos was susceptible to a vastly weaker empath
Thanos as no feats to suggest he can resist his mind being dragged to the astral plane


The others get frozen, morphed into goldfish, or disintegrated

TheVaultDweller
Hard to say IMO. It depends on how well some of these characters can handle things like his telepathy and fingersnap disintegration, or getting phased/teleported into walls/floors. Someone who can survive the initial onslaught and break through his tk shields to get a hit has a shot. That, however, is obviously easier said than done, considering David can just teleport up to someone, snap his fingers and, next thing they know, they are acting out psychic impulses he left inside their heads without knowing exactly why, or forgetting what they were doing in the first place, to give one example.

Was nice to have the S2 finale explicitly refer to him as "Omega" though. Calling him "god", "worldbreaker", "worldkiller" etc. is nice and all, buy "Omega" gives a more traditional power indication.

Josh_Alexander
Hela and Thanos are the only ones who have a chance here.

Hela is just unkillable on Asgard unless that is you destroy Asgard which i doubt Legion could do.

Thanos has 4 infinity stones which should be enough to put legion down.

carthage
Hela has no defense against TP or being transformed into a goldfish
Thanos was brought down by a vastly inferior Mantis
Legion would mindrape him

TheVaultDweller
To be fair, Mantis has actually shown considerable mental muscle at this point. She was able to shut down Ego, casually put Drax to sleep, casually awaken an unconscious Thor, and even contain Thanos. So, based on feats, her powers are actually quite strong.

But people don't take her seriously because of how silly and naive her character tends to acts.

TheVaultDweller
I am wondering though, where is this fight taking place, what are the limits of the battleground etc?

Because if David is fighting to the utmost of his ability, it will be very hard to actually take him down. Because he can just teleport to a safe spot when the fight starts and send an avatar/projection in his place.

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by carthage
Hela has no defense against TP or being transformed into a goldfish
Thanos was brought down by a vastly inferior Mantis
Legion would mindrape him

Hela is the goddess of Death. She impales Legion before he can do anything.

Legion has never faced someone like Ego the Living Planet. Manthis effortlessly slept a celestial level being.

Thanos was able to temporarily counter Manthis.

Legion has never faced a being of such power. There is no evidence to support your claim.

TheVaultDweller
Legion has reacted to bullets on multiple occasions (even casually catching machine gun rounds in his hand). And he has shields. So, good luck impaling him before he can do "anything" lol.

And while the Ego feat is impressive, he is not an actual telepath who can fight back psychically either. David has actually stalemated the Shadow King (an extremely powerful and skilled telepath) in a psychic duel, despite Amahl literally having hundreds of years more experience than David.

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Legion has reacted to bullets on multiple occasions (even casually catching machine gun rounds in his hand). And he has shields. So, good luck impaling him before he can do "anything" lol.

And while the Ego feat is impressive, he is not an actual telepath who can fight back psychically either. David has actually stalemated the Shadow King (an extremely powerful and skilled telepath) in a psychic duel, despite Amahl literally having hundreds of years more experience than David.

Hela's knifes are fast enought to be a threat for Thor and Loki. Loki specifically has shown the speed and capability of easily countering Hawk Eye's arrows, and outspeed beings like Captain America who in turn can easily block bullets.

Furthermore, Hela's knifes have been powerful enought to not only harm Asgardians but also bring down Asgardian Ships.

There is no way you can compare a bullet with Hela's knifes...They are entirely on another league.

Just because you aren't a telepath doesn't mean you are vulnerable to telepathic attacks. Ego is a celestial level being, his mind resides way above anything Legion has faced. He is millions of years old, a mind so complex not all the human's on earth could replicate.

Manthis actually struggled to control Thanos...Legion has no feats to claim he can replicate such...

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Hela's knifes are fast enought to be a threat for Thor and Loki. Loki specifically has shown the speed and capability of easily countering Hawk Eye's arrows, and outspeed beings like Captain America who in turn can easily block bullets.

Furthermore, Hela's knifes have been powerful enought to not only harm Asgardians but also bring down Asgardian Ships.

There is no way you can compare a bullet with Hela's knifes...They are entirely on another league.

Machine gun rounds, by quantifiable feats, are faster than her blades. And lol at comparing blocking bullets with a shield to casually catching multiple rounds in your hand.

Not saying her blades can't hurt him if they strike, but there is zero guarantee they will before he can teleport away, pull her mind into the astral plane, or just raise his hand and freeze her in place (all things he has done to people onscreen before). And that's assuming his shields can't take at least a hit or two.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Just because you aren't a telepath doesn't mean you are vulnerable to telepathic attacks. Ego is a celestial level being, his mind resides way above anything Legion has faced. He is millions of years old, a mind so complex not all the human's on earth could replicate.

Manthis actually struggled to control Thanos...Legion has no feats to claim he can replicate such...

Screen feats >>> your speculation about Ego's mind. Also, Mantis was very familiar with Ego. Hell, her entire role was to help calm his mind and let him sleep. It's why he kept her around.

And on top of stalemating the Shadow King, Legion also dominated Oliver, another skilled and experienced telepath, when he pulled him into the astral plane during the second last episode of S2. Honestly, the statements you make have me wondering if you have even seen Legion.

And, again, not even saying he wins these here (he's still too much of an unknown quantity for Versus matches IMO, because we still don't know his limits, even after 2 seasons. He was still uncovering new abilities even in the s2 finale). Plus, we don't know if Hela can die while Asgard stands, or what it actually takes to physically kill Thanos. But you seem very ignorant about the character.

TheVaultDweller
Also, for all Mantis' power, there are certain things she just can't do, that telepaths like David can. Like crafting entire spaces/constructs inside the astral plane and pulling people's minds there. So, being able to resist Mantis putting him to sleep doesn't automatically mean other telepathic tactics also won't work.

And, again, not saying they will either (Thanos did possess a considerable force of will, which could count for something). Which, like I said, is why I am not really big on Legion in these matches. Far too many unknowns still. Because, as things stand, there is still a sizable discrepancy between implied power (which is planetary+ level) and actual feats.

Utrigita
Have they established whether or not Xavier is his father or have they stayed with hinting at it?

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by Utrigita
Have they established whether or not Xavier is his father or have they stayed with hinting at it?

The Xavier arc didn't feature in S2. But to give an example of what I mean, take this conversation between David and the Shadow King, where Amahl implies that, with enough practice (or work out the grey matter to get it stronger, as Amahl puts it), David can alter reality as he sees fit. It's clearly not something we can just ignore, especially considering who it's coming from, but how do you even apply it in a match:

At2OMimezOk

Especially when you then have showings like this, where you don't even know if this is happening in the real world or the astral plane by the end:

Gc7CuF8XL8E

It could be A. he conjured up some red room in the real world and teleported them there, or B. he pulled them into the astral plane and destroyed the thing there. With what we know of the show (considering he had been following the Shadow King's advice and exercising his powers more), either is totally plausible. They never clarify either.

Edit: Plus, like I said, his abilities are still developing. So, debating him, given the extremely abstract nature of some of his powers, alongside the implied power (which is mentioned across both seasons at various points), is very hard in some cases.

TheVaultDweller
Or even another example:

ITXC2sI6nMI

And that statement is coming from an experienced Division 3 agent (who specialise in hunting down mutants) who measured his powers.

But, again, how do you apply something like that in a match? Even if we accept it as fact, how long would it take him? How much effort?

I mean he even stands trial at the end of the S2 finale for apparently "ending the world" in the future but, again, no one tells us how.

Phuck you, Noah Hawley, damn tease.

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Machine gun rounds, by quantifiable feats, are faster than her blades. And lol at comparing blocking bullets with a shield to casually catching multiple rounds in your hand.

Not saying her blades can't hurt him if they strike, but there is zero guarantee they will before he can teleport away, pull her mind into the astral plane, or just raise his hand and freeze her in place (all things he has done to people onscreen before). And that's assuming his shields can't take at least a hit or two.

Entire Asgardian armies felt like flies to Hela's knifes. Asgardiand are naturally superfast. Hela's knifes are by logic faster than bullets. Even Loki couldnt dodge them.

Furthermore they arent physical objects..They are rather magical manifestations.

I dont see Legion withstanding them tbh.

Could he dodge them...Perhaps.

I could concede Hela. If Legion enters the Astral plane he wins.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Screen feats >>> your speculation about Ego's mind. Also, Mantis was very familiar with Ego. Hell, her entire role was to help calm his mind and let him sleep. It's why he kept her around.

And on top of stalemating the Shadow King, Legion also dominated Oliver, another skilled and experienced telepath, when he pulled him into the astral plane during the second last episode of S2. Honestly, the statements you make have me wondering if you have even seen Legion.

And, again, not even saying he wins these here (he's still too much of an unknown quantity for Versus matches IMO, because we still don't know his limits, even after 2 seasons. He was still uncovering new abilities even in the s2 finale). Plus, we don't know if Hela can die while Asgard stands, or what it actually takes to physically kill Thanos. But you seem very ignorant about the character.


Then bring evidence Legion has overpower Celestial class beings laughing out loud

Just because he can mind control humans and mutants that doesnt mean he can hack Ego or Thanos.

Furthermore as you claimed, Manthis knew Ego. Also its clear Manthis isnt a regular telepath. She requires to physically touch the being to actually hack it. A telepath doesnt require so.

I dont see Legion hacking Thanos. No evidence to suggest it.

Legion definetly falls to Thanos. 4 Infinity stones are way too much.

Josh_Alexander
I made a quick research on Mantis and actually she isnt a telepath.

Her powers are described as Empathy (ability to feel emotions of others). She also possessed Sleep Enducement.

Clearly she isnt a telepath.

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Entire Asgardian armies felt like flies to Hela's knifes. Asgardiand are naturally superfast. Hela's knifes are by logic faster than bullets. Even Loki couldnt dodge them.

Furthermore they arent physical objects..They are rather magical manifestations.

I dont see Legion withstanding them tbh.

Could he dodge them...Perhaps.

I could concede Hela. If Legion enters the Astral plane he wins.

Being superfast doesn't automatically make you a bullet-timer. So, no, that does not automatically mean they are faster than bullets. Loki also couldn't dodge gunfire at the beginning of The Avengers, seeing as you insist on using him. And if they aren't physical, how was Executioner's machine guns damaging them?

Again, never said he could survive a direct hit. He probably can't. But it literally takes him just raising his hand to freeze someone, or do all manner of other things.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Then bring evidence Legion has overpower Celestial class beings laughing out loud

Just because he can mind control humans and mutants that doesnt mean he can hack Ego or Thanos.

Furthermore as you claimed, Manthis knew Ego. Also its clear Manthis isnt a regular telepath. She requires to physically touch the being to actually hack it. A telepath doesnt require so.

I dont see Legion hacking Thanos. No evidence to suggest it.

Legion definetly falls to Thanos. 4 Infinity stones are way too much.

You just destroyed your own argument. Mantis is an empath, not a telepath. So, Thanos resisting her doesn't give him telepathic immunity. I never said he could do that to Ego, genius. You are using Ego as a scale for Thanos resisting her, so Mantis being familiar with Ego (and thereby lessening the feat) hurts you.

And no, it does not work like that. You need to actually prove someone has telepathic resistance/immunity. We don't just assume they do until it's proven they don't. But it's Thanos, so I am not surprised this is your stance. He literally has zero feats showing him resisting someone actually pulling his mind into the astral plane, but you are just going to assume he can, cuz Thanos.

Anyway, I have made my overall stance clear in anyways. Legion is too much of an unknown quantity to accurately say how he fares in some of these fights. Based on implied power, he'd win some that he would lose going purely on screen feats. But one can't simply dismiss the power implication either, considering how frequently it occurs in the show (basically every 3rd or 4th episode). In other words, it's a giant clusterphuck for Versus matches. And I, quite frankly, don't care enough to try and figure it out for the sake of this thread.

Darth Thor
Thor implies he has strong telepathic resistance, when he assumed SW would not be able to effect him. So clearly him and presumably Hera have resistance to telepathy, but not enough to resist a physical touch from SW.

Josh_Alexander
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Being superfast doesn't automatically make you a bullet-timer. So, no, that does not automatically mean they are faster than bullets. Loki also couldn't dodge gunfire at the beginning of The Avengers, seeing as you insist on using him. And if they aren't physical, how was Executioner's machine guns damaging them?

Again, never said he could survive a direct hit. He probably can't. But it literally takes him just raising his hand to freeze someone, or do all manner of other things.



You just destroyed your own argument. Mantis is an empath, not a telepath. So, Thanos resisting her doesn't give him telepathic immunity. I never said he could do that to Ego, genius. You are using Ego as a scale for Thanos resisting her, so Mantis being familiar with Ego (and thereby lessening the feat) hurts you.

And no, it does not work like that. You need to actually prove someone has telepathic resistance/immunity. We don't just assume they do until it's proven they don't. But it's Thanos, so I am not surprised this is your stance. He literally has zero feats showing him resisting someone actually pulling his mind into the astral plane, but you are just going to assume he can, cuz Thanos.

Anyway, I have made my overall stance clear in anyways. Legion is too much of an unknown quantity to accurately say how he fares in some of these fights. Based on implied power, he'd win some that he would lose going purely on screen feats. But one can't simply dismiss the power implication either, considering how frequently it occurs in the show (basically every 3rd or 4th episode). In other words, it's a giant clusterphuck for Versus matches. And I, quite frankly, don't care enough to try and figure it out for the sake of this thread.

Loki didnt dodge the bullets because he didnt need to.

Again I could concede Hela.

Again there is no evidence to suggest Legion can mind break Thanos or Ego. They are above humans or mutants.

Also, Mantis isnt a telepath however mind sleeping is a mental attack. The fact that Thanos manage to fight it back proves his mind isnt normal.

McNasty996
An empath being able to put someone to sleep isnt necessarily a psychic attack though depending on the mechanism, it could just be putting the target in a relaxed/tired enough state that they fall asleep which would explain how Thanos could resist the same way anyone resists falling asleep when extremely tired.

So far the only person with the ability to demonstrably alter subjects conscious mind is Scarlet Witch who successfully did so against every opponent she encountered and successfully touched including Thor which doesn't bode well for the whole non human mind=resistance.

TheVaultDweller
Originally posted by McNasty996
An empath being able to put someone to sleep isnt necessarily a psychic attack though depending on the mechanism, it could just be putting the target in a relaxed/tired enough state that they fall asleep which would explain how Thanos could resist the same way anyone resists falling asleep when extremely tired.

So far the only person with the ability to demonstrably alter subjects conscious mind is Scarlet Witch who successfully did so against every opponent she encountered and successfully touched including Thor which doesn't bode well for the whole non human mind=resistance.

Well, that is the thing. IIRC, it was implied that Mantis putting someone to sleep is her making them relaxed/docile enough to lose consciousness. Because she can't manipulate actual thoughts. Only feelings and emotions. She even makes the distinction herself when describing her powers in GotG 2. At around the 0:40 mark:

kDuBXotNZFU

What I find funny is that, even though Mantis clarifies it's not mind-reading in the scene, the genius (yeah, being sarcastic here) who uploaded the video still called it that.

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