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Superman
Bizzaro
Zod
Lobo
Orion
Superboy
Black Adam

Superman 100%
Bizzaro 90%
Zod ~95%
Lobo 85%
Orion 95%
Superboy 70%
Black Adam 90%

Bizzaro: 105
Zod: 100
Lobo: 100
Orion: 100
Superboy: 80
Black Adam: 105

Originally posted by carver9
Bizzaro: 105
Zod: 100
Lobo: 100
Orion: 100
Superboy: 80
Black Adam: 105

Black Adam is not stronger than Superman.
Superman's feats are far greater.

Superman is stronger than Lobo and Orion by feats.

Mental blocks off, Superman exceeds all of them.

Originally posted by carver9
Bizzaro: 105
Zod: 100
Lobo: 100
Orion: 100
Superboy: 80
Black Adam: 105

Originally posted by h1a8
Black Adam is not stronger than Superman.
Superman's feats are far greater.

Superman is stronger than Lobo and Orion by feats.

Mental blocks off, Superman exceeds all of them.

Really? Because Orion's beat Superman more times than I can count including going toe to toe with him while he was amped.

Lobo's already beaten Superman

Adam nearly defeated the entire heroes of DC something superman wishes to accomplish

I think posters tend to use the wrong percentages when comparing characters 'close' in strength. If you are even 80% of someone's strength, it's pretty close. Figures like 95% often seem just a bit too close.

At any rate, Superman is hard to rate due to him often seeming to have dynamic power. Sometimes it's just that he holds back more than other heroes and Kryptonians. But other writers have provided more explicit dynamic strength mechanisms, like drawing in more solar energy as his emotions become more intense, or his powers being mentally regulated, or even his powers being ultimately based on his will or mind.

What is interesting (and frustrating) is that other Kryptonians or Daxamites never seem to get credited with this kind of dynamic power. Supergirl is especially confusing on this score. You rarely see her Hulk out the way Superman often does.

And on the whole, Orion is below Superman IMO, though he does have quite a few showings implying equality, and some that imply his superiority.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Superman
Bizzaro
Zod
Lobo
Orion
Superboy
Black Adam

Bizzaro---90
Zod---95
Lobo---90
Orion---98
Superboy---70
Black Adam---95

ALL BOW BEFORE SUPERMAN!!!

all i know is this. wonder woman crippled an all out superman. yeah yeah i know its injustice superman. but as i stated many times, i do believe it should be canon because injustice superman is just superman under different circumstances that made him act differently. thats why its a different universe.

i dont think its too hard, its just lazy writing. for example the recent fight of thor vs juggernaut. the writer was just too lazy to look for a way for thor to win against juggernaut, so he just made thor punch his teeth out. you think the writer doesnt know how jugegrnaut powers work? of course he does. its just that he was too lazy to write anything better that stays true to both characters.

Originally posted by Dareangel
i dont think its too hard, its just lazy writing. for example the recent fight of thor vs juggernaut. the writer was just too lazy to look for a way for thor to win against juggernaut, so he just made thor punch his teeth out. you think the writer doesnt know how jugegrnaut powers work? of course he does. its just that he was too lazy to write anything better that stays true to both characters.

Exactly.

That should never have happened. I sometimes think some writers are not even fans of the characters they are writing about.

Spetznaz has accurately understood the fundamental inconsistency of comics. However, relative standing tends to be more consistent than measuring feats. That's why feats are irrelevant, really. It's all relative rankings that matter.

That said, even relative rankings vary wildly, too. So you do have to try to find out what seems like the 'average', even if that is very difficult to do.

Comparing Orion and Superman in strength is tough because Superman's strength tends to be more dynamic. Orion can't really match the more potent, usually 'all-out', Superman portrayals. But Orion is typically a peer to Superman in strength on 'regular' days, and also on 'all out' days under many writers who don't really credit Superman with exceptionally dynamic strength.

well, i think you are stupid. see? i can play the game of "throw random insults without explaining anything" too.

I agree that the idea of there being canon and non-canon sources, and we can just forget about the latter, is a bad way to look at comics. Everything can shed light. I'm not saying canon and non-canon necessarily have the same weight in one's 'average of a character, but it's worth looking at non-canon sources.
That said, Injustice's take on Superman vs. Wonder Woman is somewhat complex, IMO, and perhaps even somewhat contradictory.

The Juggernaut matter is also not simple. It's not clear that absolute invulnerability was ever a core and universally accepted aspect of Juggernaut's power set. There was a time when this was pushed, but he's also been hurt before.

It's perhaps a bit like classic Superman who was at one point supposed to be totally immune to harm except for his weaknesses. Absolute powers, like a totally unstoppable attack (say Black Bolt's voice), or total immunity to harm (like Juggernaut's durability at times), are burdensome on a writer. They are pretty hard to deal with;and thus, they tend to get watered down over time to being just very high end powers. But the absoluteness goes away. Just like it did with Superman's invulnerability.

Originally posted by Dareangel
well, i think you are stupid. see? i can play the game of "throw random insults without explaining anything" too.

After whole two years of behaving like a damn caveman, you don't deserve serious treatment.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
After whole two years of behaving like a damn caveman, you don't deserve serious treatment.

i dont recall addressing you. are you seeking attention from me?
i also find it funny you actually went to my profile, in order to look how long am i here. i wonder now, which thread was it that i slapped you so hard to make you triggered? help me with this one...

Injustice is non Canon the same way what if S are not Canon....

Originally posted by Pillow Biter


The Juggernaut matter is also not simple. It's not clear that absolute invulnerability was ever a core and universally accepted aspect of Juggernaut's power set. There was a time when this was pushed, but he's also been hurt before.


bruh, its his powers. he was laughing at a freakin godblast from thor. but i get what you are saying, there was a lot of lazy writing that allowed juggernaut to get hurt.

Originally posted by Dareangel
i dont recall addressing you. are you seeking attention from me?
i also find it funny you actually went to my profile, in order to look how long am i here. i wonder now, which thread was it that i slapped you so hard to make you triggered? help me with this one...

You didn't slap anyone, you're just a painful waste of time.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Injustice is non Canon the same way what if S are not Canon....

For the nth time...

No Non-canon Sources

Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

This includes JLA/Avengers. Canon or not, people just aren't going to agree on it in most cases. Besides, there should be plenty of other comics with which to make your point.

Comics released strictly online or on web sites will not be considered proof in the Comic Book Versus Forum.

An obscure interview given by someone involved in a story arc is not proof to refute feats. Neither is a random post by a supposed writer on a message board, blogs, tweets, etc. There have been too many of these so called interviews which go against what's shown on panel. Especially when there is no dialogue to refute what's happening on panel. Most writers are clear with the intentions of the plot and story arc.

This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed.

Source: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

"i know you are anti-DC/Pro marvel fanboy"

apparently anybody that goes against Dc wank is a marvel fanboy lmao, atleast learn what a fanboy is.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You didn't slap anyone, you're just a painful waste of time.

waste of time and yet you are searching my attention in every thread i post in. hypocritical of you? to tell you the truth, i dont recall you making any significant contribute to the forums, aside of pathetic trolling here and there. like some basement troll

I'm doing my best to avoid you, actually.

Your posts are all too capable of murdering brain cells.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I'm doing my best to avoid you, actually.

Your posts are all too capable of murdering brain cells.

so thats your excuse for not having any brain cells? ok

Superman and Bizarro traded bodies and Superman outright admitted Bizarro is stronger. It has been said on panel that Black Adam is stronger.

carv, my point exactly.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman and Bizarro traded bodies and Superman outright admitted Bizarro is stronger.

I remember that, yeah.

What abhi and others from the Superteam think about it?

Originally posted by carver9
It has been said on panel that Black Adam is stronger.

When?

Originally posted by carver9
Superman and Bizarro traded bodies and Superman outright admitted Bizarro is stronger. It has been said on panel that Black Adam is stronger.

used in my famous BZ win over Lob too.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I remember that, yeah.

What abhi and others from the Superteam think about it?



When?

I dont have the scan handy but some Apocalyptian type creatures said Black Adam is stronger than Superman during some type of power reading. During the time this was said, Superman was not at full power due to kryptonite poison (I think) but their statement seemed (imo) to be based primarily on the overall powerset than their current powerset during that time and they had no knowledge of Superman being weakened (and I'm sure that wasnt the writer intention).

Originally posted by carver9
I dont have the scan handy but some Apocalyptian type creatures said Black Adam is stronger than Superman during some type of power reading. During the time this was said, Superman was not at full power due to kryptonite poison (I think) but their statement seemed (imo) to be based primarily on the overall powerset than their current powerset during that time and they had no knowledge of Superman being weakened (and I'm sure that wasnt the writer intention).

Thought you meant that.

Weren't they referring to their overall power level, though? This thread is limited to just strength.

The fact that people point to a single showing and reason that if it is definitive or explicit enough it 'proves' anything shows their inexperience.

Yes, it was said that Black Adam was stronger than Superman by one writer in a comic--through a character, but we have little reason to doubt the character was expressing the writer's opinion. But that is not definitive--it's one opinion. Nor would it be definitive if there were direct statements showing Superman was stronger than Adam. There's still a ton of other evidence on both sides of the argument, and there's no one decisive piece. You have to take it all in and do your honest best to see which side of the debate the preponderance of the best evidence lies on.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
The fact that people point to a single showing and reason that if it is definitive or explicit enough it 'proves' anything shows their inexperience.

Yes, it was said that Black Adam was stronger than Superman by one writer in a comic--through a character, but we have little reason to doubt the character was expressing the writer's opinion. But that is not definitive--it's one opinion. Nor would it be definitive if there were direct statements showing Superman was stronger than Adam. There's still a ton of other evidence on both sides of the argument, and there's no one decisive piece. You have to take it all in and do your honest best to see which side of the debate the preponderance of the best evidence lies on.

Bravo. glad someone understands this statement thing. i never gave much weight to statements and bios. feats speak louder.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
The fact that people point to a single showing and reason that if it is definitive or explicit enough it 'proves' anything shows their inexperience.

Yes, it was said that Black Adam was stronger than Superman by one writer in a comic--through a character, but we have little reason to doubt the character was expressing the writer's opinion. But that is not definitive--it's one opinion. Nor would it be definitive if there were direct statements showing Superman was stronger than Adam. There's still a ton of other evidence on both sides of the argument, and there's no one decisive piece. You have to take it all in and do your honest best to see which side of the debate the preponderance of the best evidence lies on.

How about this then...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784750-vs+superman+3.png

Grapple strength to strength and Adam slings him off of him.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/is-black-adam-stronger-than-superman-1557517/

Superman admits that Adam has made it impossible for Super to move him out of the center of the city.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784752-vs+superman+5.png

Adam was trying to talk him down the entire fight.

@Stilt...

I agree with you.

Originally posted by carver9
How about this then...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784750-vs+superman+3.png

Grapple strength to strength and Adam slings him off of him.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/is-black-adam-stronger-than-superman-1557517/

Superman admits that Adam has made it impossible for Super to move him out of the center of the city.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784752-vs+superman+5.png

Adam was trying to talk him down the entire fight.

@Stilt...

I agree with you.
How does any of that prove Adam is stronger when Superman was shown as holding back?

Not to mention that was an abnormally high showing for Adam and the writer even admitted that she wrote Adam as stronger than Captain Marvel while Adam is explicitly equal to Cap otherwise.

If anything that shows Superman being stronger than regular Black Adam.

Originally posted by abhilegend
she wrote Adam

"She"?

Originally posted by carver9
How about this then...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784750-vs+superman+3.png

Grapple strength to strength and Adam slings him off of him. Are you blind?

Superman wasn't even grabbing him. You can see Adam grab Superman's wrists and then throw him up.

Check that first panel again. Maybe make a red circle around their hands, too.

If you really wanted to use something, you should have used here, where they're grabbing eachother's hands, and Superman is the one who overpowers and punches him:

https://i.imgur.com/DigJc4e.jpg

Oh, wait...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
"She"?

Gail Simone.

She thinks Black Adam is stronger than Captain Marvel.

Originally posted by abhilegend
How does any of that prove Adam is stronger when Superman was shown as holding back?

Not to mention that was an abnormally high showing for Adam and the writer even admitted that she wrote Adam as stronger than Captain Marvel while Adam is explicitly equal to Cap otherwise.

If anything that shows Superman being stronger than regular Black Adam.

Lol at Superman holding back during that scene. Why would he even mention not being able to move Adam from the center of the city if he wasnt trying?

Adam have better showings tbh.

Lol... so an angry Superman being unable to do anything to a passive Adam proves that Superman is stronger?

@Phil...

Lol, he still had to over power him. No matter how you try to twist this showing, he physically overpowered Superman during that showing.

Lol..look at the position they are in, in your scan. That's all Superman had to do was snatch his hand away from Adam and punch him are you proud of that showing?

Anexternally influencd and angrier than normal holding back Superman matched a high end above top tier portrayal of Black Adam who played on his honor to avoid an all out level punch.

Originally posted by panthergod
Anexternally influencd and angrier than normal holding back Superman matched a high end above top tier portrayal of Black Adam who played on his honor to avoid an all out level punch.

When?

Superman was getting smacked around, and even explictly stated he didn't held back

Originally posted by carver9
Lol, he still had to over power him. No matter how you try to twist this showing, he physically overpowered Superman during that showing.
No, he didn't. You're blind and I caught you in a lie. *pats carver on the head*

The moment Superman was about to end it, Black Adam turned his back on him, knowing he's a good guy.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol..look at the position they are in, in your scan. That's all Superman had to do was snatch his hand away from Adam and punch him are you proud of that showing? Ah, you got the special carver edition, with the extra-inserted panels?

Black Adam has Superman's fist in his hand, and the next panel that same fist is approaching his face:
https://imgur.com/DigJc4e

Oh, I get it. I have to draw red lines, no?

Superman, perhaps, even went to beat up Hulk, right between those actions. Anything is possible in carverland!

@Phil...

You have to be either just as strong or stronger to throw someone off of you like that. I can not see Colossus replicating that showing, can you? It was a test of strength.

Adam ended the fight because Superman was being manipulated, not because Superman could've defeated him. Remember, Superman was the one that admitted he couldnt move Adam out of the city, it wasnt the other way around. Then we have Adam just standing there allowing Superman to heat vision him...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784753-vs+superman+6.png

Lol... he even SIGHS and stands there and basically ask Superman to get his heat vision out of the way. Just get it over with. Lol... he was toying with Superman... the same Superman who admits he cant move Adam out of the city.

Stand down Superman...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784748-vs+superman+1.png

I am innocent, I will not tell you again...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784750-vs+superman+3.png

Yield Alien, you've been deceived...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784752-vs+superman+5.png

He then tells Superman after this that he regret what come to pass with this... its freaking hilarious because if anyone was holding back TREMENDOUSLY, it was Adam and Superman still couldnt move him while at the same time admitting fighting against Adam, he doesnt have to pull his punches.

Originally posted by carver9
@Phil...

You have to be either just as strong or stronger to throw someone off of you like that. I can not see Colossus replicating that showing, can you? It was a test of strength.


Have you ever heard of Aikido or Judo? The whole idea of martial arts is to do just that.

Originally posted by Faceless808
Have you ever heard of Aikido or Judo? The whole idea of martial arts is to do just that.

Aaahhhh, so Adam knows martial arts?

lmao a holding back Adam toying and knocking around Superman. but yet guys still wanna compare supes to Hulk hahaha hilarious

I don't think someone who's a "peer" to darkseid should be struggling with someone like adam

Originally posted by carver9
@Phil...

You have to be either just as strong or stronger to throw someone off of you like that. I can not see Colossus replicating that showing, can you? It was a test of strength. You said they 'grappled strength to strength, which is wrong. Black Adam grabbed Superman's wrists and yanked him away. That doesn't require superior strength, and you have no idea what you're talking about. Have you ever grappled with somebody?

An actual push-to-push strength contest is what I showed you.

Originally posted by carver9
Adam ended the fight because Superman was being manipulated, not because Superman could've defeated him. Remember, Superman was the one that admitted he couldnt move Adam out of the city, it wasnt the other way around. Then we have Adam just standing there allowing Superman to heat vision him...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784753-vs+superman+6.png

Lol... he even SIGHS and stands there and basically ask Superman to get his heat vision out of the way. Just get it over with. Lol... he was toying with Superman... the same Superman who admits he cant move Adam out of the city.

Stand down Superman...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784748-vs+superman+1.png

I am innocent, I will not tell you again...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784750-vs+superman+3.png

Yield Alien, you've been deceived...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784752-vs+superman+5.png

He then tells Superman after this that he regret what come to pass with this... its freaking hilarious because if anyone was holding back TREMENDOUSLY, it was Adam and Superman still couldnt move him while at the same time admitting fighting against Adam, he doesnt have to pull his punches.

Superman first tried to move him out of town. Once he saw that Black Adam doesn't want to leave, he decided to "end it fast". At that point, Superman realized that he has to beat him down. Black Adam took a risk, by his own admission, that Superman wouldn't punch him with a strike that would shatter a moon:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784754-vs+superman+7.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784755-vs+superman+8.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784756-vs+superman+9.png

At no point Black Adam showed physical superiority. Superman showed it once, and Black Adam took a risk in Superman not hitting a non-fighting opponent.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol at Superman holding back during that scene. Why would he even mention not being able to move Adam from the center of the city if he wasnt trying?

Adam have better showings tbh.

Lol... so an angry Superman being unable to do anything to a passive Adam proves that Superman is stronger?
Superman was literally shown going all out at the end of the fight and about to push Adam's shit in. That has been shown to you time and again.

Yes, it was. Even there Adam showed no strength advantage over a holding back Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman was literally shown going all out at the end of the fight and about to push Adam's shit in. That has been shown to you time and again.

Yes, it was. Even there Adam showed no strength advantage over a holding back Superman.

So he was going all out at the "end" of the fight? In the middle and the beginning, he was holding back. Even though he said that he always worry about breaking people bones when fighting them but not having to worry about that when fighting Adam. Even though he said he cant move Adam out of the heart of the city, he was still holding back? What sense does that make? Why even bring up these things if you are holding back? Excuses. All I am reading are excuses. The only time Superman fans say Superman is going all out is when he is either winning or dominating a fight. If things are at a split, he is always holding back.

If anyone was holding back, it was Adam and Superman being incapable of moving Adam out of the city and getting tossed shows a strength advantage. Especially when your opponent is holding back and is trying to reason with you while you're on a rampaging punch and heat vision fest.

@Phil...

So Colossus can grab Superman wrist and toss him against his will?

Lol...Superman during the beginning of the fight already said he was tricked off, while blitz punching Adam in the chest. An Adam who wasnt even looking at him.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784749-vs+superman+2.png

I guess Superman is the exceptional. When he is pissed off, he doesnt try to drop his opponent (sigh).
This is crazy. Here we have Superman blitzing Adam admitting he is trying to push him out of the city and he fails at budging him...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784750-vs+superman+3.png

Lol... Adam force him back to earth.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784751-vs+superman+4.png

He said he was going to end it fast here and Adam withstood his heatvision without a scratch.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784752-vs+superman+5.png

I honestly dont know how much evidence you need tbh. Adam words are an indication of him holding back and his action... hell, the way he was fighting as well.

Originally posted by carver9
So he was going all out at the "end" of the fight? In the middle and the beginning, he was holding back. Even though he said that he always worry about breaking people bones when fighting them but not having to worry about that when fighting Adam. Even though he said he cant move Adam out of the heart of the city, he was still holding back? What sense does that make? Why even bring up these things if you are holding back? Excuses. All I am reading are excuses. The only time Superman fans say Superman is going all out is when he is either winning or dominating a fight. If things are at a split, he is always holding back.

If anyone was holding back, it was Adam and Superman being incapable of moving Adam out of the city and getting tossed shows a strength advantage. Especially when your opponent is holding back and is trying to reason with you while you're on a rampaging punch and heat vision fest.
Yes, he was holding back. Unless you can go all out while already going all out that is.

Rest of your random gibberish? GTFO, this has been done to you literally hundreds of times.

Originally posted by carver9
Aaahhhh, so Adam knows martial arts?


You really like playing games, don't you, Carver? You stated, "You have to be either just as strong or stronger to throw someone off of you like that." And I showed you that your statement was wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by Faceless808
You really like playing games, don't you, Carver? You stated, "You have to be either just as strong or stronger to throw someone off of you like that." And I showed you that your statement was wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.

But that's YOU ASSUMING, idk why you're applying "Oh well in martial arts they can do that" to a comic which never suggested it

unless you think black adam knows tae kwan do now

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, he was holding back. Unless you can go all out while already going all out that is.

Rest of your random gibberish? GTFO, this has been done to you literally hundreds of times.

He wasnt holding back.

Originally posted by Faceless808
You really like playing games, don't you, Carver? You stated, "You have to be either just as strong or stronger to throw someone off of you like that." And I showed you that your statement was wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.

I was mentioning that about the scene I posted, not about MMA fighters.

Originally posted by carver9
He wasnt holding back.
Yes, he was. Ignoring the same thing for a decade won't change that carter.

Carver, I really hope you are only playing dumb. I really do. You don't need to know martial arts to do something like that. It's called leverage. It's catching someone off guard. it's using your opponents weight and momentum against himself. I see it demonstrated in comics all the time. Remember when Ironman flipped Namor at Puget Sound when he was about to rip off his face plate? Guess what?

Originally posted by Faceless808
Carver, I really hope you are only playing dumb. I really do. You don't need to know martial arts to do something like that. It's called leverage. It's catching someone off guard. it's using your opponents weight and momentum against himself. I see it demonstrated in comics all the time. Remember when Ironman flipped Namor at Puget Sound when he was about to rip off his face plate? Guess what?

faceless, what you are saying is completely true. you dont have to be a martial artist that goes to some shitty dojo, in order to throw someone. i saw people with just street fighting knowledge doing those things, most of those trows are just natural movement that people can execute while in a middle of a fight, like punching or kicking.

now to carver, if you believe black adam is not skilled enough to make a random throw, then you are just playing dumb. making a throw is overcoming the bodyweight of your opponent if you catch him off guard. if the person is resisting and you still manage to throw him, again, its not a matter of you stronger than him, its physics and angles. its how you place your own body and how you position your opponent to lift him off the ground.

Originally posted by carver9
@Phil...

So Colossus can grab Superman wrist and toss him against his will? You don't need superior strength to grab somebody by the wrist and move them. That's the relevant part. I don't give a shit about who can, or cannot do this, since that's not the actual point, so stop asking stupid questions.

You're wrong. And blind.

Originally posted by carver9
I honestly dont know how much evidence you need tbh. Adam words are an indication of him holding back and his action... hell, the way he was fighting as well. You initial point, where you proved you can't see, is that Superman and Black Adam had a "Grapple strength to strength ". Adam just grabbed both his wrists and threw him away, which is not a strength comparison.

I then showed you an actual strength contest, in which both Adam and Superman grabbed each other, and Superman overpowered his arm and punched him in the face:
https://imgur.com/DigJc4e

Then we have Superman explicitly saying that he will end it fast, after not succeeding in getting him off town and, once Black Adam notices he wants to end him, he turns around, taking a risk counting on Superman being a nice guy:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784755-vs+superman+8.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784756-vs+superman+9.png

Your position of Black Adam being stronger is wrong.

Adam clear as day had no intention of fighting superman

i think what adam said was just pure intimidation..maybe he thought supes would back off. At the end he played on supes high moral standard(that as we all know was a risk).

Originally posted by Dareangel
faceless, what you are saying is completely true. you dont have to be a martial artist that goes to some shitty dojo, in order to throw someone. i saw people with just street fighting knowledge doing those things, most of those trows are just natural movement that people can execute while in a middle of a fight, like punching or kicking.



thank you! Exactly what I'm saying. I've seen little guys flip bigger guys. Someone who can toss their opponent doesn't mean they are the stronger.

Originally posted by carver9
How about this then...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784750-vs+superman+3.png

Grapple strength to strength and Adam slings him off of him.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/is-black-adam-stronger-than-superman-1557517/

Superman admits that Adam has made it impossible for Super to move him out of the center of the city.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3784752-vs+superman+5.png

Adam was trying to talk him down the entire fight.

@Stilt...

I agree with you.

Neither scan gives evidence that BA is stronger.
In the first scan BA is in a position of advantage. He has wrist control. If you were ever a wrestler then you know wrist control is very important.

And you are also dismissing the OWAW canon.


Originally posted by carver9
Lol at Superman holding back during that scene. Why would he even mention not being able to move Adam from the center of the city if he wasnt trying?

Adam have better showings tbh.

Lol... so an angry Superman being unable to do anything to a passive Adam proves that Superman is stronger?

What better showings? BA doesn’t hold back, Superman does. When Superman stops holding back then you get OWAW, which trumps any showing made by BA.

Superman - 100 - full strength=all out mode, standard levels are about 50, reference.
Bizzaro - 60
Zod - 50
Lobo - 40
Orion - 45
Superboy - 30
Black Adam - 45