Rey is Learning...

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Galan007
Probably not worth an entire thread, but figured I may as well post this little tidbit regardless...

Rey is having 3P0 translate the old Jedi texts for her:

http://i.imgur.com/wetk6qbh.jpg
*This is set a few hours after the events of TLJ.


IOW, the bulk of Rey's knowledge in the force will stem from some of the most ancient teachings possible.

Zenwolf
K, nothing really interesting or new but...eh? Guess we'll see what comes out of this next movie.

Galan007
Oh I think it is very interesting, actually, given Rey's potential.

Essentially, her Jedi 'fundamentals' are comings from some of the most ancient sources in existence. She could potentially learn things that have been lost for generations... Or at the very least she's learning from sources that are presumably more 'raw' in their teachings. /shrug

One Big Mob
What if C3P0 becomes ultra powerful from reading and understanding the texts instead?

Galan007
Then these films would become a LOT more interesting. thumb up

Kurk
Artwork looks nice

Zentrex
Wait, wait, wait, wait. So they're written in a language that Rey can't read? This might be because she's uneducated, but then she's also surprised that threepio can read them. And he says they're written strangely. So...did Luke ever try to read them? Could he? Could anyone? Yoda seems to know what was in them, but how many jedi knew about it?

And you know, originally, I'd just thought, cause of Yoda's comments, that those books were basic knowledge, since, you know, knowledge tends ot grow over time. But now that you've mentioned it, they were in the unknown regions, and they were ancient, like the knowledge Palpatine was after, Luke studied when shifting away from the jedi order, and Snoke knew of. And the "prime jedi" was also on Ahch-To, in the unknown regions, which we're told is the origin of the force. I'm interested now. Can't wait to see where this goes.

Galan007
Rey's education has nothing to do with her inability to read the book. It is written in an ancient(and I mean ancient) dialect. Frankly, I'm surprised that even 3P0 can decipher it. /shrug


Regarding the books themselves:


Moreover, Rey seems to have a special 'connection' with them, so I'd imagine that she will actually be able to put all of the knowledge to use:



And like you mentioned: it was stated that Luke had avidly searched the galaxy for years to acquire the books, so it's very unlikely that their teachings were widely circulated amongst the Republic-era Jedi, imo. I'd imagine that much of their knowledge has been lost over the generations... And knowledge that primordial will likely be quite something to behold. /shrug

TheNuisanceBird
Of course leave it to the books and comics to try and make Rey not a Mary Sue. She shouldn't really have to learn anything else though.

The Merchant
None of this will be mentioned in 9 tbh.

Darth Thor
Its about time she learned something.

Jmanghan
...to suck dick.

MythLord
Which comic is that from?

One Big Mob
Galan had it commissioned for him. He likes his lore put into his requested comics where C3P0 porks Rey.

"Is it protocol for your dick to be black 3P0?" is among the choice dialogue he requested be added.

Deep pockets. Deeper perversion.

Galan007
Originally posted by The Merchant
None of this will be mentioned in 9 tbh. I think the information Rey is gathering from the ancient texts will play a big role in future films, tbh. The books were teased/shown at the end of TLJ for a reason, after all:
https://i.imgur.com/ZoRhRS0.jpg

The comic is just expanding on that a bit.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Galan had it commissioned for him. He likes his lore put into his requested comics where C3P0 porks Rey.

"Is it protocol for your dick to be black 3P0?" is among the choice dialogue he requested be added.

Deep pockets. Deeper perversion. thumb up

...Or he can just read Poe Dameron #28. wink

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
I think the information Rey is gathering from the ancient texts will play a big role in future films, tbh. The books were teased/shown at the end of TLJ for a reason, after all:
https://i.imgur.com/ZoRhRS0.jpg

The comic is just expanding on that a bit.

thumb up

...Or he can just read Poe Dameron #28. wink

Well...I mean TFA also set up some big stuff that could or should have played a big role in TLJ and that didn't really pan out.

But who knows, anything is possible.

One Big Mob
The comics are just helping explain her inevitable power increase just like the "you learned from Kylo" shit.

This way you can at least try to explain why she's more powerful than 10 Yodas with somewhat of a reason as opposed to the zero reasons we were given.

Galan007
I'm trying to be optimistic that Abrams won't completely ignore a plot-point this significant. kinda

One Big Mob
JJ is a hunk of shit. Don't expect plot holes to close.

Though it will probably be "safer" than what Rian did

Galan007
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Though it will probably be "safer" than what Rian did That's all I'm asking for at this point, tbh.

Darth Thor
I thought Rey didnt need training. She just needed Kylo to train then the Force would simply Make Rey his equal.

Galan007
According to Snoke and Luke, Rey possess the same raw strength as Kylo.

However, raw power/potential doesn't mean a whole lot if you have no clue how to actually use it. Rey needs a teacher --both Kylo and Luke said as much-- and evidently her 'teacher' will be in the form of these primordial Jedi texts that she has a metaphysical connection to.

...Though I think it'd be great if Luke's ghost appeared to Rey and helped connect the dots/gaps in her training as well. /shrug

Mendax
Originally posted by Galan007
and evidently her 'teacher' will be in the form of these primordial Jedi texts that she has a metaphysical connection to. What's your take on this? going by the quote u posted on the last page she does have a strong connection to them. I wonder why?

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
According to Snoke and Luke, Rey possess the same raw strength as Kylo.

However, raw power/potential doesn't mean a whole lot if you have no clue how to actually use it. Rey needs a teacher --both Kylo and Luke said as much-- and evidently her 'teacher' will be in the form of these primordial Jedi texts that she has a metaphysical connection to.

...Though I think it'd be great if Luke's ghost appeared to Rey and helped connect the dots/gaps in her training as well. /shrug

Maybe it'll be Yoda, since he's gonna appear to her, unless he just appears to tell her what a great Jedi she is according to articles, not sure how that adds up but ok...books being her teachers seem really...lackluster given who she is suppose to be in this new series.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mendax
What's your take on this? going by the quote u posted on the last page she does have a strong connection to them. I wonder why? Rey is essentially the will of the cosmic force made manifest. A means of balance.

Clearly she is connected to the books on a very deep level. The force itself drew her to the books, and wanted her to have them.

I believe that the force wants to be 'reset'. It wants her to learn the ways of the ancient(and possibly more 'pure') Jedi. It wants her to use that knowledge as the basis for what she will inevitably become(and ultimately pass-on.)

Imo.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Maybe it'll be Yoda, since he's gonna appear to her, unless he just appears to tell her what a great Jedi she is according to articles, not sure how that adds up but ok...books being her teachers seem really...lackluster given who she is suppose to be in this new series. I don't mind it, because the 'Disney alternative' would be Rey appearing in Episode IX with her knowledge/power massively increased, and no explanation given for the sudden boost... At least this is *something*. /shrug

Aside from that, it's not like it'd be an unprecedented plot-point. I mean, that's basically how Luke acquired the bulk of his knowledge as well: holocrons and books. Granted, he had received a bit more formal training from Yoda beforehand, but that training was still very much incomplete. /shrug

But yeah, it'd be cool for Yoda's ghost to instruct Rey as well -- seeing him train one last generation of Jedi before he sublimates into the force permanently. thumb up

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
Rey is essentially the will of the cosmic force made manifest. A means of balance.

Clearly she is connected to the books on a very deep level. The force itself drew her to the books, and wanted her to have them.

I believe that the force wants to be 'reset'. It wants her to learn the ways of the ancient(and possibly more 'pure') Jedi. It wants her to use that knowledge as the basis for what she will inevitably become(and ultimately pass-on.)

Imo.

I don't mind it, because the 'Disney alternative' would be Rey appearing in Episode IX with her knowledge/power massively increased, and no explanation given for the sudden boost... At least this is *something*. /shrug

Aside from that, it's not like it'd be an unprecedented plot-point. I mean, that's basically how Luke acquired the bulk of his knowledge as well: holocrons and books. Granted, he had received a bit more formal training from Yoda beforehand, but that training was still very much incomplete. /shrug

But yeah, it'd be cool for Yoda's ghost to instruct Rey as well -- seeing him train one last generation of Jedi before he sublimates into the force permanently. thumb up

That and Luke also appears to be learning from other Force sects and teachers if the comics are anything to go by.

But I mean fair enough, the lack of Force Users in the ST seem apparent(not sure how, but ok) so sure books teaching her are at least something it just doesn't seem...personal? I suppose, along with her downloading Kylo's mind(I couldn't type that with a straight face tbh).

As far as Yoda teaching her? Eh...that would be weird given how is she suppose to even know about him? Unless he just appears to her because reasons. Honestly though my optimism is kinda low for the next movie after what TLJ did.

Galan007
I agree with most of what you said. Frankly I'm just trying to rationalize the ST at this point, lol.

Indeed Luke's learning was pretty diverse(albeit hands-off)... The bulk of his knowledge likely stemmed from the numerous holocrons/texts he found in Jocasta's makeshift classroom, though. That woman was *the* single most knowledgeable being in existence, across *all* areas of the force(both light and dark)... As Sheev himself said: "Jocasta Nu knows EVERYTHING." If Luke inherited even a fraction of her knowledge, I can understand why Snoke feared his return... But that's neithere here nor there.

My point is just that a great deal of knowledge/power can be gleaned from the ancient books that Rey is studying -- especially when we consider the possibility that the texts are SO ancient that she could be learning shit that had been long-forgotten by the previous Jedi Order. She could be learning entirely new methodologies, ideals, and even abilities.

...I'm intrigued to see where this goes, tbh. srug

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
I agree with most of what you said. Frankly I'm just trying to rationalize the ST at this point, lol.

Indeed Luke's learning was pretty diverse(albeit hands-off)... The bulk of his knowledge likely stemmed from the numerous holocrons/texts he found in Jocasta's makeshift classroom, though. That woman was *the* single most knowledgeable being in existence, across *all* areas of the force(both light and dark)... As Sheev himself said: "Jocasta Nu knows EVERYTHING." If Luke inherited even a fraction of her knowledge, I can understand why Snoke feared his return... But that's neithere here nor there.

My point is just that a great deal of knowledge/power can be gleaned from the ancient books that Rey is studying -- especially when we consider the possibility that the texts are SO ancient that she could be learning shit that had been long-forgotten by the previous Jedi Order. She could be learning entirely new methodologies, ideals, and even abilities.

...I'm intrigued to see where this goes, tbh. srug

I guess we'll see what's what, but again not holding my breath too much.

Zentrex
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I thought Rey didnt need training. She just needed Kylo to train then the Force would simply Make Rey his equal.

Pretty much, but knowledge and training are different. And there's also lightsaber training, although she already knows her way around a weapon from Jakku. Though she's not as good as Kylo as we see from the Preatorian fight, so maybe she could use more.

Originally posted by Galan007
According to Snoke and Luke, Rey possess the same raw strength as Kylo.

However, raw power/potential doesn't mean a whole lot if you have no clue how to actually use it. Rey needs a teacher --both Kylo and Luke said as much-- and evidently her 'teacher' will be in the form of these primordial Jedi texts that she has a metaphysical connection to.

...Though I think it'd be great if Luke's ghost appeared to Rey and helped connect the dots/gaps in her training as well. /shrug

I think of it as being in different categories
-force power
-force knowledge
-control over the force

She has the most potential, as in the most raw power, but she and Kylo both have as much command of the force as each other (darkness rises and the light to meet it, and Kylo didn't know that Rey shared a bond with him and would rise to meet his level). The books will teach her knowledge, and Luke's ghost will probably teach her more control. And I'm pretty sure Luke's gonna be there, 'cause he said "See you around, kid."

Galan007
Originally posted by Galan007
Essentially, her Jedi 'fundamentals' are comings from some of the most ancient sources in existence. She could potentially learn things that have been lost for generations... Or at the very least she's learning from sources that are presumably more 'raw' in their teachings. /shrug https://i.imgur.com/Mp9SOpR.jpg


So don't be surprised when Rey pulls some never before seen powers out of her ass, cuz ancient Jedi texts. thumb up

juggernaut74
Ezra learned skills from Jedi holocrons. Such as saber lessons from Anakin Skywalker.

Darth Thor
Yeah but Ezra was getting trained by another Jedi.

Reys whole rise to power has been BS. Mostly because there was no rise. She just was.

Galan007
I liken it to Bane learning far more from studying Revan's holocron for a short time than he ever did at the Sith Academy on Korriban. /shrug

...I'm really just making up excuses to explain her inevitable massive rise in power next film, though.

One Big Mob
Rey will be tossing Star Destroyers hopefully next film

Darth Thor
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Rey will be tossing Star Destroyers hopefully next film


Pfft Rey can already do that.

victreebelvictr

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Galan007
I liken it to Bane learning far more from studying Revan's holocron for a short time than he ever did at the Sith Academy on Korriban. /shrug

...I'm really just making up excuses to explain her inevitable massive rise in power next film, though.

Why though?

Total Warrior
Am I the only one who think she is sub Plo Koon and the likes level

The Ellimist
ib4 Rey moves a star

Underachiever59
So... Out of curiosity, I kinda wonder how many people here are complaining about Rey's growth, but have never complained about Nomi Sunrider. Or Kyle Katarn. Or any of the other many examples in Legends of characters who have never used a lightsaber before suddenly being able to fight equally with trained combatants.

Galan007
Originally posted by Underachiever59
So... Out of curiosity, I kinda wonder how many people here are complaining about Rey's growth, but have never complained about Nomi Sunrider. Or Kyle Katarn. Or any of the other many examples in Legends of characters who have never used a lightsaber before suddenly being able to fight equally with trained combatants. Now that an explanation can actually be given for her inevitable growth in the next film(ie. studying ancient texts from which she can learn new truths and abilities about the force), I don't have an issue with it.

It's better than the alternative, which is no explanation at all.

Underachiever59
Originally posted by Galan007
Now that an explanation can actually be given for her inevitable growth in the next film(ie. studying ancient texts from which she can learn new truths and abilities about the force), I don't have an issue with it.

It's better than the alternative, which is no explanation at all.

I'm on your side here, man. Honestly, what I'm getting is that there are tons of characters in Legends who are well known and even beloved by the fanbase who have just as little explanation for their growth as Rey currently does. At least Rey, you can kind of justify if you think about it a bit. But characters like Nomi Sunrider, who had absolutely no training? And then went, picked up a lightsaber, and was killing pirates and using freaking battle meditation immediately.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah but Ezra was getting trained by another Jedi.

Reys whole rise to power has been BS. Mostly because there was no rise. She just was. True, but technically Kanan wasn't a Jedi himself but he had a lot of training and experience during the Clone Wars.

Having those various Jedi holocrons around would certainly help with training. Heck if Yoda recorded sessions and Mace Windu recorded sessions a guy could pick up a lot without even training with a real Jedi.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Underachiever59
I'm on your side here, man. Honestly, what I'm getting is that there are tons of characters in Legends who are well known and even beloved by the fanbase who have just as little explanation for their growth as Rey currently does. At least Rey, you can kind of justify if you think about it a bit. But characters like Nomi Sunrider, who had absolutely no training? And then went, picked up a lightsaber, and was killing pirates and using freaking battle meditation immediately.

Eh she only killed 2 of the 3, the 3rd ran away and you could say they weren't really prepared seeing as they were mocking her about it and it was the only time before being trained in lightsaber combat. I wouldn't really say she was fighting a peer opponent as you suggested, the BM was only a rare occurrence(though I'll give you), it's not like she was able to do it at any given time.

Plus Nomi was trained by Thon, so she doesn't have little explanation as to how she grew.

Rey is fine now I guess, though the whole Matrix download thing with Kylo's mind was a little cheesy...don't see why she just couldn't have learned from Luke. I'm abit more annoyed with how staff training = sword training, when the two are very different....like really they should have had her just learn by Luke..or if they really wanted, have Rey have a staff lightsaber, that would have been easier to understand.

Total Warrior
Maybe ghost Luke will still train her?

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Total Warrior
Maybe ghost Luke will still train her?


My only issue with that would be, then why didnt ghost Ben train Luke in the OT?

Underachiever59
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Eh she only killed 2 of the 3, the 3rd ran away and you could say they weren't really prepared seeing as they were mocking her about it and it was the only time before being trained in lightsaber combat. I wouldn't really say she was fighting a peer opponent as you suggested, the BM was only a rare occurrence(though I'll give you), it's not like she was able to do it at any given time.

Plus Nomi was trained by Thon, so she doesn't have little explanation as to how she grew.

Rey is fine now I guess, though the whole Matrix download thing with Kylo's mind was a little cheesy...don't see why she just couldn't have learned from Luke. I'm abit more annoyed with how staff training = sword training, when the two are very different....like really they should have had her just learn by Luke..or if they really wanted, have Rey have a staff lightsaber, that would have been easier to understand.

The second time Nomi picked up a lightsaber, she killed far more than the initial two after her husband died. Sure, Thon had been trying to mentor her, but she explicitly hadn't been training with a lightsaber by that point in time. When pirates came to Ambria, and Thon surrendered himself to them, Nomi charged in to face at least a dozen pirates, breaking through their ranks to free Thon. We see her strike down at least 5 or 6 in the panels, with the description claiming she "cuts down adversary after adversary". While fighting against pirates isn't really the most impressive feat, we've seen far better trained Jedi fall to far fewer nameless opponents than what Nomi was able to fight off with absolutely no lightsaber training.

As for staff training translating to lightsaber training, I'm personally fine with it. Learning footwork, timing, and distance is pretty much 50% of most martial arts, and those translate from one fighting style to another rather universally. Sure, what you do with your hands changes depending on what you're holding, but as long as you can judge distance and maintain footwork and timing, you can at least somewhat handle a radically different weapon from what you've trained with. This is the same reason Finn holds his own against Kylo Ren as well as he did.

Besides that, Rey was getting stomped initially, so it's not like she was instantly a master duelist. It's only when Rey opens herself fully to the Force that she gains an upper hand, like we see countless times throughout Star Wars. And even then, Rey "gaining the upper hand" basically translates to her being way more aggressive and repeatedly throwing the same downward strike until Kylo Ren's stamina fails him and he leaves an opening.

I do agree that the knowledge download from Kylo Ren is a poor explanation for Rey, but at least it is an explanation. And I get why they didn't have Luke train Rey, because that pretty much ran counter to Luke's story in 8. I'm really hoping in 9 that Rey uses a saberstaff. It would just work way better for her character.

RealistRacism
Why are we pretending that Rey is a real thing?

Total Warrior
Because unfortunately for us she is, like it or not

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