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Minus the reality warpers/cosmics. Can Marvel's heroes defend itself from the Darkstars?

https://i.imgur.com/EELNbM7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Ak6Ch6Q.jpg

vs

https://i.imgur.com/rZnQCGp.jpg

In rebirth, it looks slike an average Darkstar is stronger than a high herald. I'm not sure if that level of power will continue. I doubt it but it's possible.


As of now, if we are excluding the major marvel players (Cosmic level beings like FR), I'd say the Darkstar should win.


I'm sure by GL 50, my opinion will change.

John Stewart and the gang are gathering up Kryptonians, New Gods, sinestro corps, and a onslaught level telepath to take on the Darkstars. Not to mention the entire GLC.

Do the darkstars have any TP resistance feats?

I thought Zod's family is helping out. Orion is there, which is huge, and there could be more help, once Highfather finds out they left.

And Hector is a pretty powerful telepath.

Originally posted by deathslash
Do the darkstars have any TP resistance feats?

We'll find out once Hector attacks.

We don't even know what Hector is capable as the God Brain, according to the writer. That comes in issue 48-50. But his base level, he's Onslaught level, which Lobdel has said.

Interesting.

https://i.imgur.com/EEP648t.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/80XB0dN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/geuDxZO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/VfSj7lS.jpg

If they suffer from Decapitated Army syndrome:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DecapitatedArmy

Then the X-Men alone can do it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If they suffer from Decapitated Army syndrome:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DecapitatedArmy

Then the X-Men alone can do it.

You're quite correct. All they needed was a telepath, and Marvel is filled with them. Darkstars may have a chance but I'd give the nod to Marvel Earth more often than not.

Originally posted by Stoic
You're quite correct. All they needed was a telepath, and Marvel is filled with them. Darkstars may have a chance but I'd give the nod to Marvel Earth more often than not.

They'd need an Onslaught level telepath to do it. Hector was dubbed Onslaught level before he was the God Brain. Or Marvel TP's can combine their might and take down the Controllers. However, that's easier said than done, since this isn't one-sided prep.

Since when? Hector did all of what he did with ease. The Darkstars are simply weak to TP, or were during that arc. Emma, or Rachel would likely be enough, but if not, they'd have plenty more since this is Marvel Earth. Let's face it, the Darkstars turned out to be a bit underwhelming when it came down to resisting the mind whammy.

Marvel wins.

Originally posted by Stoic
Since when? Hector did all of what he did with ease. The Darkstars are simply weak to TP, or were during that arc. Emma, or Rachel would likely be enough, but if not, they'd have plenty more since this is Marvel Earth. Let's face it, the Darkstars turned out to be a bit underwhelming when it came down to resisting the mind whammy.

Marvel wins.

Since the 12 storyline. During that time when brainiac powered up 12 individuals, Hector was omega level.

Now fast forward to this year, he's even more powerful. Which is why he easily over rid the minds of 7 controllers. Uber.

So Hector 'God Brain' Hammond mindphucks the Controllers, and that makes the Darkstars "weak to TP" by proxy..? Jesus.

Hector Hammond. Same guy who can effortlessly toy with Orion's mind, despite him having a MotherBox on his person. Same guy who was implied to be able to easily TP-kill EVERY evildoer in the universe just to please Hal. Same guy who was implied to be more powerful than telepaths like Psycho Pirate, Maxwell Lord, and Psimon.

Sorry, but getting TP'd by him(of all people) is hardly a poor showing, lol.

Originally posted by Galan007
Hector Hammond. Same guy who can effortlessly toy with Orion's mind, despite him having a MotherBox on his person.

What issue was this?

Originally posted by Galan007
So Hector 'God Brain' Hammond mindphucks the Controllers, and that makes the Darkstars "weak to TP" by proxy..? Jesus.

Hector Hammond. Same guy who can effortlessly toy with Orion's mind, despite him having a MotherBox on his person. Same guy who was implied to be able to easily TP-kill EVERY evildoer in the universe just to please Hal. Same guy who was implied to be more powerful than telepaths like Psycho Pirate, Maxwell Lord, and Psimon.

Sorry, but getting TP'd by him(of all people) is hardly a poor showing, lol.

What level do you think Hammond is operating at, currently? Telepathic wise?

This is one of the scenes Galan was talking about, which is creepy.

https://i.imgur.com/TVhy2BE.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PGKDd5Z.jpg

Originally posted by Supermutant
What issue was this? Hal and the GLC #48:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39052684_9766077.jpg


And remember, it was previously established that MotherBox can render a telepathic immunity of sorts:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39052686_Superman_2011-_020-013.jpg


And as you can see above, Orion used the MB to expel Hammond's essence from Superman, and also set up mental safeguards in Superman's mind to prevent it from being breached again.

However, those safeguards didn't stop Hammond(post-God Brain amp) from easily overtaking Superman's mind:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39052681_Hal_Jordan__the_Green_Lantern_Corps_031-014.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39052682_Hal_Jordan__the_Green_Lantern_Corps_031-015.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39052683_Hal_Jordan__the_Green_Lantern_Corps_031-016.jpg


*That goes to show how much more powerful Hector became after the amp. Not even the telepathic resistance gleaned from a MotherBox can stand up to him.

Originally posted by Galan007
Hal and the GLC #48:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39052684_9766077.jpg


And remember, it was previously established that MotherBox can render a telepathic immunity of sorts:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39052686_Superman_2011-_020-013.jpg


And as you can see above, Orion used the MB to expel Hammond's essence from Superman, and also set up mental safeguards in Superman's mind to prevent it from being breached again.

However, those safeguards didn't stop Hammond(post-God Brain amp) from easily overtaking Superman's mind:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39052681_Hal_Jordan__the_Green_Lantern_Corps_031-014.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39052682_Hal_Jordan__the_Green_Lantern_Corps_031-015.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39052683_Hal_Jordan__the_Green_Lantern_Corps_031-016.jpg


*That goes to show how much more powerful Hector became after the amp. Not even the telepathic resistance gleaned from a MotherBox can stand up to him.

Who said that the Controller's had the same amount of resistance as Orion with the MB? You seem to be giving away prizes to characters that don't deserve them. Marvel has a ton of telepaths as I mentioned earlier, and since the Darkstars seem to have this as a chink in their armor Marvel Earth should be able to exploit it as well.

Controllers have the toughest minds in the universe.

Yeah the DC Universe maybe, but Marvel Earth has some pretty insane telepaths like the Shadow King, and several others that could attack them in sync. But maybe you're not up to considering the feats that these guys have stacked up. Legion is on Earth as well.

Hypno Hustler is also on Marvel Earth

Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah the DC Universe maybe, but Marvel Earth has some pretty insane telepaths like the Shadow King, and several others that could attack them in sync. But maybe you're not up to considering the feats that these guys have stacked up. Legion is on Earth as well.

I'm not saying Marvel earth can't win, but Hector is more powerful than your average MU TP. I doubt even SK can stop him.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Hypno Hustler is also on Marvel Earth

Check it out, if Marvel Earth can't win that's all cool and dandy for me, but I think that the telepaths on that Earth should get a little acknowledgement, since this was what allowed the Lanterns, Orion, Zod, and the gang to fight them on equal footing. That's all I'm saying.

Those three had problems, though. And DC earth has a lot of uber Telepaths that you're not considering.

Originally posted by Stoic
Who said that the Controller's had the same amount of resistance as Orion with the MB? You seem to be giving away prizes to characters that don't deserve them. Marvel has a ton of telepaths as I mentioned earlier, and since the Darkstars seem to have this as a chink in their armor Marvel Earth should be able to exploit it as well. It seems like you have absolutely no clue what casually mindphucking SEVEN Controllers simultaneously, or casually overpowering the TP resistance of a MotherBox, actually means.

It's almost like you don't give a shit how powerful Hammond is, and just want to call the Darkstars "weak to TP" so you can give Marvel's telepaths the win.

Lol, interesting...

Hard to see if Orion was actually using the MB, normally there would be a ping. I think the writers may have forgotten about the MB and what it can do in that instance. Wouldn't be the first time for instance when Maxima used TP on Orion, he was supposed to have a MB in his possession. Although there was no evidence shown that the MB was used to try and stop TP.

Not that Hammond would need that feat as he has others more uber like the Controllers.

Originally posted by Galan007
So Hector 'God Brain' Hammond mindphucks the Controllers, and that makes the Darkstars "weak to TP" by proxy..? Jesus.

Hector Hammond. Same guy who can effortlessly toy with Orion's mind, despite him having a MotherBox on his person. Same guy who was implied to be able to easily TP-kill EVERY evildoer in the universe just to please Hal. Same guy who was implied to be more powerful than telepaths like Psycho Pirate, Maxwell Lord, and Psimon.

Sorry, but getting TP'd by him(of all people) is hardly a poor showing, lol.
Especially after just one guardian did this TP wise.

Originally posted by abhilegend
A gargantuan feat from the preview of Green Lanterns 50. A random Guardian spreads his consciousness across all that is, was and will be across the cosmos.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NlwWGixD8QE/WzwYL8BIvBI/AAAAAAAAY3A/-b_BYp8dG-QW-1kbsNObrF3Z9a95U71kgCLcBGAs/s1600/GLS_50_1.jpg

Who is him, Abhi? What is the Guardian scared of?

Not revealed yet.

Originally posted by Zack M
Who is him, Abhi? What is the Guardian scared of?

Abhi breaks the 4th wall and makes his first appearance in DC.

Originally posted by Galan007
It seems like you have absolutely no clue what casually mindphucking SEVEN Controllers simultaneously, or casually overpowering the TP resistance of a MotherBox, actually means.

It's almost like you don't give a shit how powerful Hammond is, and just want to call the Darkstars "weak to TP" so you can give Marvel's telepaths the win.

Lol, interesting...

Is that what I just said? Best to go back and understand what I said instead of assuming what I did not say. Understand? Good.

I'm not quite sure what is being argued here. Are people saying Hector > every telepath on Marvel Earth combined?

Originally posted by Stoic
Is that what I just said? Best to go back and understand what I said instead of assuming what I did not say. Understand? Good. I said that's how it "seems"... Because that IS how it seems.

You seem to have NO comprehension of the DC characters here. That much is evident by you saying they are "weak to TP" solely because Hector Hammond incapacitated the Controllers, lol.

Understand? Good.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I'm not quite sure what is being argued here. Are people saying Hector > every telepath on Marvel Earth combined? No.

What is being discussed here is that Hector 'God Brain' Hammond mindphucking the Controllers does NOT make the Darkstars "weak to TP" by proxy. Moreover, the Controllers work from a single remote location -- they do not travel with the the swarm of Darkstars that would be invading Marvel earth.

...So unless Marvel earth knew where the Controllers were being held, TP'ing them is a non-factor anyway.

Originally posted by Galan007
No.

What is being discussed here is that Hector 'God Brain' Hammond mindphucking the Controllers does NOT make the Darkstars "weak to TP" by proxy. Moreover, the Controllers work from a single remote location -- they do not travel with the the swarm of Darkstars that would be invading Marvel earth.

...So unless Marvel earth knew where the Controllers were being held, TP'ing them is a non-factor anyway.

Terms of combat? Okay. Marvel Earth is being invaded? Okay. Marvel Earth has it's own telepaths along with every other creature under Skyfather that knows this group is attacking, which includes these Controllers? Okay. So this is what I'm imagining is happening in this forum battle. Marvel has many telepaths which includes Legion right? So do we give them the benefit of possibly turning the tide like Hector did all by himself, or do the Darkstars annihilate Marvel Earth? Now let's sidestep the semantics and say whether or not Marvel can or can't. I don't need the rundown. I'm aware of it.

Again, the purpose of the Controllers is using their collective TP to mentally link the Darkstars. This enables the Darkstars to better use abilities like tactile teleportation(which makes them untouchable to even beings with Zod's stats.)

However, the Controllers do this from a single off-site location, many many lightyears away from the Darkstar swarm. IOW, the Controllers are NOT part of the physical invasion... So unless Marvel earth knew how/where to find the Controllers, TP is a non-factor anyway.

Moreover, I certainly wouldn't say it's 'standard knowledge' that the Controllers are used in such a capacity either. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Again, the purpose of the Controllers is using their collective TP to mentally link the Darkstars. This enables the Darkstars to better use abilities like tactile teleportation(which makes them untouchable to even beings with Zod's stats.)

However, the Controllers do this from a single off-site location, many many lightyears away from the Darkstar swarm. IOW, the Controllers are NOT part of the physical invasion... So unless Marvel earth knew how/where to find the Controllers, TP is a non-factor anyway.

Moreover, I certainly wouldn't say it's 'standard knowledge' that the Controllers are used in such a capacity either. /shrug

I know tho. I read the comics, but this is a forum battle, and in a forum, everyone is made aware of everything and everyone taking place in the battle. They also must adhere to forum regulation starting distances. I'm not doing this to be jerky. In all fairness Marvel Earth has an impressive array of telepaths. Mystics are also present. Go back to my previous posts and understand that this is why I'm bringing this up. If Marvel Earth is doomed, big deal. I'm cool with it, I just don't think a group like the Darkstars are more impressive than the Dark Celestial hoarde trying to destroy Marvel Earth at this present time.

Again, the Controllers are NOT part of the actual Darkstar swarm, and would be hundreds of lightyears away from Marvel earth when the invasion took place. This would NOT be considered standard knowledge, because it was obviously FAR from a well-known fact(meaning the inhabitants of Marvel earth wouldn't go into this battle knowing that the Darkstars were being telepathically linked by the Controllers from a distant/remote location, nor would they know where that specific location is.) The only reason Hal knew where the Controllers were being held is because one of the Darkstars actually took him there.

And unless Marvel somehow finds out where that location is and sends their best telepaths there to try and shut down the Controllers' minds, their TP is nigh-irrelevant.

Originally posted by Galan007
Again, the Controllers are NOT part of the actual Darkstar swarm, and would be hundreds of lightyears away from Marvel earth when the invasion took place. This would NOT be considered standard knowledge, because it was obviously FAR from a well-known fact(meaning the inhabitants of Marvel earth wouldn't go into this battle knowing that the Darkstars were being telepathically linked by the Controllers from a distant/remote location, nor would they know where that specific location is.) The only reason Hal knew where the Controllers were being held is because one of the Darkstars actually took him there.

And unless Marvel somehow finds out where that location is and sends their best telepaths there to try and shut down the Controllers' minds, their TP is nigh-irrelevant.

A ruling on this topic needs to be taken. Forum matches assumes that all combatants or sentiments involved must be accounted for. No sneaky off the battlefield shot. I don't agree with your assessment, and I'm likely not the only one. The Controllers are a part of the Darkstars Ramada, and must therefore be a part of the Battle.

I'm sorry you don't like the facts, but they are the facts. The Controllers do not physically accompany the Darkstars anywhere -- they telepathically link the Darkstars from a remote location hundreds/thousands of lightyears away.

It's puzzling to me that you claim to have read the comics, yet you seem to be clueless about information that was explicitly presented in said issues..?

Exactly.

I don't think this is common knowledge for the general hero, nevermind general population in DC.

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly.

But they are still part of the battle. Technically speaking the Controllers shouldn't even be in this battle because it is a forum fight. It isn't as if the Darkstars can not actually fight without these Controllers involvement. They aren't the Sybiote that makes Venom Venom. They are either on the battlefield or they are not. General knowledge in this case matters very little.

The Controllers aren't on the physical battlefield, no. As I've said numerous times: they are in a remote location hundreds/thousands of lightyears away, telepathically linking the Darkstars' minds.

What's not computing here?

Originally posted by Galan007
The Controllers aren't on the physical battlefield, no. As I've said numerous times: they are in a remote location hundreds/thousands of lightyears away, telepathically linking the Darkstars' minds.

What's not computing here?

Sorry I'm at work. Very busy here at times. What isn't computing is that they must be on the battlefield or they are automatically BFR'd under the normal rules of engagement. You can skate around this issue for as long as you like but they must still be on the battlefield.

DC is in a completely different reality and universe than Marvel, but that does not stop the Darkstars or any cross company battle from being wage in a forum setting.

1. We both know that without this gimmick the Darkstars wouldn't actually stand a chance against Marvel Earth that has been known to repel just about any type of invasion posed against it. Which is why I can understand your need to keep the Controllers hidden.

2. Can the Marvel telepaths invade a Darkstars mind? Is that impossible under these circumstances

3. The Darkstars with support of the Controllers would have to contend with much more than many people may be thinking about. In this case the X-Men, Excaliber, X-Factor, Defenders. Avengers, Alpha Flight, Earth-bound Inhumans, Deviants, Eternals, Asgardia, random Mystics, random Telepaths like Legion, Sentinels, all of the villains on Marvel Earth, random solo heroes like Spiderman... etc.

So once again the Controllers can not be off of the battle field and still be considered a part of the battle, because that would constitute an automatic BFR.

With all those heroes on Marvel Earth, why bother with the Controllers? Is a TP battle with the Controllers their only chance? I wouldn't think so, not with that lineup you listed.

IMO, going after the Controllers to stop the Darkstars is like going after Cyttorak to stop the Juggernaut. Just not the best option.

Originally posted by Faceless808
With all those heroes on Marvel Earth, why bother with the Controllers? Is a TP battle with the Controllers their only chance? I wouldn't think so, not with that lineup you listed.

IMO, going after the Controllers to stop the Darkstars is like going after Cyttorak to stop the Juggernaut. Just not the best option. the controllers are in a coma like state

Originally posted by xJLxKing
the controllers are in a coma like state


I was mostly addressing Stoics obsession of attacking the Controllers.

Originally posted by Faceless808
I was mostly addressing Stoics obsession of attacking the Controllers.

With the aid of the Controllers, the Darkstars teleport the moment that an attack is launched against them and therefore evade the attack completely. I have issues with them being off of the battlefield, while also adhering to strict forum regulations. With the gimmick they actually have a chance of winning, but without it, their chances take a steep dive.

Needless to say, there are loads of characters on Marvel Earth. The question remains; Is there anyone on Marvel Earth that could possibly foil the invasion?

Another gripe of mine is that the Controllers are not inherently the Darkstars' original power setting, and as such, the Darkstars don't actually need the Controllers to continue being Darkstars, which in turn could be considered to be an outside amplification that could also be considered to go outside of the original post.

If the Controllers are permitted to play keep away for the Darkstars, it would mean that they are actually a part of this battle, and if so they would be required to remain on the battlefield.



The Original Post
Originally posted by Zack M
Minus the reality warpers/cosmics. Can Marvel's heroes defend itself from the Darkstars?

https://i.imgur.com/EELNbM7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Ak6Ch6Q.jpg

vs

https://i.imgur.com/rZnQCGp.jpg

As you can see, the battle takes place on Earth. If the Controllers are not on the battlefield no combatant on Earth would be able to venture off to get them, because if they did... Kabaam instant BFR. Therefore, the Controllers must be on the battlefield in order for us to keep things fair for all parties involved.

Controllers aren't standard knowledge. It's just the Darkstars.

Originally posted by Zack M
Controllers aren't standard knowledge. It's just the Darkstars.

And this fact somehow negates going against the rules of engagement in this forum? No. We know about the Controllers, and if they are to take part in this battle, they must be on the battlefield. If they are not on the battlefield they are nullified. The Juggernaut needs Cytorrak in order to be the Juggernaut, the Flash needs the Speed Force to be the Flash, Superman needs a yellow or white Sun to be Superman, Green Lanterns need a power ring to be Lanterns... The Darkstars do not need the Controllers to remain Darkstars.

The controllers would be a contributing factor to the battle, and if they are manipulating any part of the battle, they must too be on the battlefield. If not, anything that they do runs into a barrier.

They would be considered BFR'd the moment that the battle began.

Not for this battle. The rules have already been set. You can't change KMC rules.

Originally posted by Zack M
Not for this battle. The rules have already been set. You can't change KMC rules.

You constructed the OP Zack. Guess what I don't see in it? Yep no Controllers, just Darkstars. If you said the Darkstars and the Controllers vs Marvel Earth we would still be exactly where we still are presently.

The Controllers would have to be on Marvel Earth, which is where the battle is actually taking place. If an individual that you wanted to include in this battle were a part of this battle, they would still have to actually be on the battlefield, or they would be BFR'd.

What rules am I breaking again Zack? It seems like the only one breaking the rules or tying to, is you. Fighting the truth is a lot like kicking your own ass isn't it?

Exactly. No Controllers, just the Darkstars. Now you're getting it.

Originally posted by Zack M
Exactly. No Controllers, just the Darkstars. Now you're getting it.

Which means that the Darkstars do not have the power to relocate the moment before an attack is launched at them, because the Controllers would not actually be involved in any way with the battle. Glad we agree.

They still have the tactical teleportation and energy powers. More than enough to compete.

Originally posted by Zack M
They still have the tactical teleportation and energy powers. More than enough to compete.

But without the precognitive add on. Excellent.

All DS feats count, though.

Originally posted by Stoic
Which means that the Darkstars do not have the power to relocate the moment before an attack is launched at them, because the Controllers would not actually be involved in any way with the battle. Glad we agree.

Let it go.

Stoic's posts are making me cringe irl.

He's either going full-troll, or he legitimately doesn't understand how this works.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Let it go.

Why should I? Let me know when you find out.

Originally posted by Galan007
Stoic's posts are making me cringe irl.

He's either going full-troll, or he legitimately doesn't understand how this works.

Well let me know why you believe that I'm trolling.

Well, if you want to make your own Darkstars thread, then go ahead.

Originally posted by Zack M
Well, if you want to make your own Darkstars thread, then go ahead.

What does that have to do with anything?

Not going along with the rules.

Originally posted by Zack M
Not going along with the rules.

Rules pertaining to what? We already went over this Zack, and you agreed to what I said.

No, I don't think I did. Either way, all feats count for DS.