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Stable Sentry vs. Takion

Who wins?

Not Takion

Originally posted by twt
Stable Sentry vs. Takion

Who wins?
Takion can literally become one with universe and has briefly halted Godwave (big bang in reverse) itself.

He totally erases Sentry from reality.

Originally posted by riv6672
Takion can literally become one with universe and has briefly halted Godwave (big bang in reverse) itself.

He totally erases Sentry from reality.

Baseless wank like usual.

Lightray made Takion his b*tch:

http://i.imgur.com/CYTRji6.jpg

Sentry stomps.

the opponent of whoever realitywarper picks is always the winner

^^^so it has been established.

BTW, Takion literally stomped Lightray in the very next page.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Baseless wank like usual.

Lightray made Takion his b*tch:

http://i.imgur.com/CYTRji6.jpg

Sentry stomps.

Post the next page.

What the hell does 'stable' Sentry mean?

Lol you can even read Takion's thoughts there....damn, I really don't need this....

Lightray's a minor annoyance to Takion.

Next page:

https://pp.vk.me/c622527/v622527508/4d805/FBxQ3Y-NyVM.jpg

Lightray for trans.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol you can even read Takion's thoughts there....damn, I really don't need this....

Lightray's a minor annoyance to Takion.

Next page:

https://pp.vk.me/c622527/v622527508/4d805/FBxQ3Y-NyVM.jpg

Planet-busting attacks aren't even an annoyance to Sentry.

Molecule Man is a minor annoyance to Sentry.

Try again.

So Sentry with full conscious access to all his powers? Gotta go with him. WWH Hulk is really the only true low showing for Sentry. Given the description of his powers, all other below-Molecule Man showings could theoretically be ascribed to him not accessing his full power, rather than be part of some average.

He's like Infinity Gauntlet level, possibly. Maybe more.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Planet-busting attacks aren't even an annoyance to Sentry.

Molecule Man is a minor annoyance to Sentry.

Try again.

Not my point, but ok!

We'll know more I hope and have answers to questions like this as more of the new Sentry comic comes out. Hopefully his powers will be properly defined at last.

Originally posted by Putinbot1
We'll know more I hope and have answers to questions like this as more of the new Sentry comic comes out. Hopefully his powers will be properly defined at last. He'll beat up an old half dead Dormammu and naturally that will put Sentry above Eternity.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Planet-busting attacks aren't even an annoyance to Sentry.

Molecule Man is a minor annoyance to Sentry.

Try again.

You know what the God wave is in the DC verse?

Originally posted by One Big Mob
He'll beat up an old half dead Dormammu and naturally that will put Sentry above Eternity. Haha, strangely I can see that happening, if it does I will remember I read it in your post first!

Originally posted by Pillow Biter

What the hell does 'stable' Sentry mean?

Sentry is mentally ill and has days, which are worse than others. That's typical for people with certain mental illnesses. Sentrys bio states that when his mental states wavers, he becomes easier to defeat.

In comics we've also seen Sentry dealing with some serious issues and in fights underperforming. In WORLD WAR HULK he was so anxious, that he couldn't leave his house for few days. When he had no choice but to engage the fight, his power output wasn't as impressive as during other showings. His energies spread over a couple of city blocks.
In NEW AVENGERS during the 'Collective' storyline he was also anxious and unsure, but when Captain America called for him, Sentry entered the fight, took the opponent into space and as the side effect of their fight a nearby moon got destroyed.
In THUNDERBOLTS Sentry didn't seem to struggle all too much. He didn't want to fight Photon on Earth, because he knew it would devastate the planet. Photon then teleported them into the Microverse, where the two of them engaged. Their escaping energies were not only destroying planets, but they were visible in the regular plane of existence. And you have to keep in mind that in the Microverse atoms have the size of planets.
In UNCANNY AVENGERS Sentry was affected by the Death Seed, which unlocked his potential. He was performing at his -until then and until now- absolute best. His power and strength mirrored the combined power of over a 100 heroes (including power houses like Blue Marvel, Hyperion, Captain Britain, Hulk and so on).

So when we talk about a stable Sentry, we talk about someone, who would bitchslap the WORLD WAR HULK version of the Sentry into oblivion.

Is that not a faulty way to compare power though? You can't very well destroy Earth just because you should.

We saw this very same thing in Pak's series where Hulk vs Red She Hulk destroyed a planet and then a massively amped Hulk and Red She Hulk stomped on a massively amped Fin Fang Foom on Earth and destroyed nothing at all. No sinking Pakistan with a single step, no, this STOMP from a far more powerful Hulk/Red She Hulk would have been lucky to topple a house of cards 40 feet away.

Collateral damage is an indicator of what they could achieve, not what they should do every battle. Had they fought on a no-name planet I've no doubt the planet would have been destroyed, but the limitation was Earth and the story.

Originally posted by SquallX
You know what the God wave is in the DC verse?

That's the source of the superpowers in the DCU.

Originally posted by One Big Mob

Is that not a faulty way to compare power though? You can't very well destroy Earth just because you should.

Collateral damage is an indicator of what they could achieve, not what they should do every battle. Had they fought on a no-name planet I've no doubt the planet would have been destroyed, but the limitation was Earth and the story.

This isn't just about collateral damage, which varies from writer to writer and artist to artist. John Romita Jr is someone, who is always making his characters bleed like pigs as soon as they trip over a stone. WW Hulk should have been much more durable than your average Hulk, with a higher healing factor, but he was still bleeding and bruising more than weaker Hulks.

This is about tons of additional context. Sentrys power scales with his mental stability. There are context filled instances, where Sentrys mental stability and in relation his power level vary greatly.

Even if we took a far simpler character like Hyperion and compared stuff, I would disagree with you. But we can take your example with the Hulk as well:
We both know that Fin Fang Foom isn't really a planetary level character. So the damage needed to stop him is not going to be anything special. We also know that there was the one statement about the Hulk, where he uses Banners genius level intelligence to calculate his attacks and avoid harming innocents. So is it crazy to think that the Hulk... you know, the ultimately good guy in the story... would stomp just about right to stop Fin Fang Foom, but not split the planet in half?

I've read arguments, where Sentry is downplayed, because he was wrestling with Namor for a while. Sentry beat Namor up. Namor didn't really land anything. If Sentry wanted Namor dead, Namor would have died within seconds. But Sentry is ultimately a good guy and is not likely to simply rip another hero / anti-hero apart. He still has that kinda power and we've seen him do it. But in the end of the day, heroes hold back and try to avoid collateral damage as much as possible. And WW Sentry lost the control over his power to a point, where his power was just oozing out and destroying the city. And during other instances, where he was mentally more stable and also more concerned with the safety of the people around him and the planet below him... Well, in these instances moons and planets were destroyed as a side effect of his fight. That is context I'm simply not willing to ignore.

At least that's the way I look at it. I try to simplify such stuff. I never want to bring writers and art styles into the discussion, because that's where biases come in as well. When your favorite hero has a good showing, then he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. When your favorite hero has a bad showing, then it's the writers fault, who shouldn't be writing comics, but should work as a janitor instead.



Great contribution, mate.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Even if we took a far simpler character like Hyperion and compared stuff, I would disagree with you. But we can take your example with the Hulk as well:
We both know that Fin Fang Foom isn't really a planetary level character. So the damage needed to stop him is not going to be anything special. We also know that there was the one statement about the Hulk, where he uses Banners genius level intelligence to calculate his attacks and avoid harming innocents. So is it crazy to think that the Hulk... you know, the ultimately good guy in the story... would stomp just about right to stop Fin Fang Foom, but not split the planet in half?


Ehh...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113173/3887761-09-03-2011+13.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113173/3887762-09-03-2011+14.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113173/3887763-09-03-2011+15.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113173/3887764-09-03-2011+16.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113173/3887765-09-03-2011+17.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111113173/3887766-09-03-2011+18.jpg


This wasn't a different writer years down the line. This was the very next/same issue from the same writer who made a clash from a lesser powered Hulk destroy a planet with a punch.

Not destroying Earth isn't an indication of limits. Judging from collateral damage alone on Earth under Pak would put you in a weird ABC logic circle where you have WWH Sentry being above 4 Maxed out Worldbreaker Hulks with massive amps on top of it. But below subdued one footstep Worldbreaker Hulk. It's not a good way to judge power. Never has been, never will be.

Some writers just don't want to find ways to leave the planet and just don't care enough. They just use the "eventual" angle.

Earth is protected by plot. Someone's power isn't determined by the amount of damage they do on Earth. Another example is the whole billions of dimensions being slagged but not damaging the hardwood in Molecule Man's apartment. What should happen is not what does happen on Earth. Hell Earth housed RW's favorite fight to bandwagon off of in Post Ret Beyonder vs Molecule Man's multiversal fight. Earth is made of Comicprotectium.

I'm not discussing whether Sentry was weakened or not, I'm just saying that collateral damage on Earth has no effect on where one's power lies in that series

oh they are well aware of that cause Sentry released "the power of a million exploding suns" in Manhattan

Originally posted by RealityWarper
That's the source of the superpowers in the DCU.

Then you know how powerful it is then? But did you also know Takion can easily manipulate said powers casually? Can exist in the past, present and future? Became one with the Universe? Cannot die unless he wills it? All form of powers are his to manipulate? Ie the Speed force, the Lanterns powers?

Originally posted by One Big Mob

I'm not discussing whether Sentry was weakened or not, I'm just saying that collateral damage on Earth has no effect on where one's power lies in that series

I still don't quite understand how your collateral damage on Earth argument factors into this particular discussion. It feels like we're talking past each other.

My argument is that -looking past different writing styles / art styles / varying collateral damage portrayals- WW Hulk Sentry (mentally unstable and depowered) might have been able to destroy the Earth, but it would have taken him quite a while. His energy output was far more localized and was slowing growing and spreading out. At the same time during other instances Sentry (mentally more stable) immediately went on to leave the Earth in order to avoid causing any destruction. In space / the microverse his escaping energies were covering a much larger area.
And that goes hand in hand to the Sentry overall having less power during a weak mental state.

And you bring in collateral damage, even though it's really just a side aspect of the bigger discussion at hand.

Also, you kinda are discussing if Sentry was weakened or not, since you're saying, that whatever happened during WW Hulk wouldn't reflect his damage output in a weakened state anyway. While at the same time, he had lost control over his power entirely and it was just oozing out of him and destroying the environment. Now obviously the Earth is protected by the plot, like you've said it... but what I'm saying is, that the plot had Sentry being depowered and operating on a smaller scale in the first place.

Tell me what you think about Sentrys power level and damage output in general. Because right now I don't really know what I'm discussing, other than apparently not being allowed to take anything that happens on Earth into count due to collateral damage restrictions.
If you're saying, that WW Hulk fighting WW Sentry on a different planet and that planet being destroyed, wouldn't have been out of the question... and hence making an unstable Sentry still a planet buster (but potentially not that much weaker than a stable Sentry)... then sure, why not. I'll take it.

Talks about not wanting to release his power

https://imgur.com/06Z2Apd

Releases said power

https://imgur.com/M7kJ6nw
https://imgur.com/ejGqRv9
https://imgur.com/HABZU2S
https://imgur.com/pKLDdXE

Originally posted by SquallX
Then you know how powerful it is then? But did you also know Takion can easily manipulate said powers casually? Can exist in the past, present and future? Became one with the Universe? Cannot die unless he wills it? All form of powers are his to manipulate? Ie the Speed force, the Lanterns powers?

Yep. That's less impressive than being superior to Molecule Man.

Originally posted by Enzeru
I still don't quite understand how your collateral damage on Earth argument factors into this particular discussion. It feels like we're talking past each other. There's nothing complicated to get. Sentry's collateral damage isn't an indicator of his power level. Less so on Earth. Even less so under super consistent Pak.

You keep bringing it up, which is why it factors into this particular discussion. You bring it up in this post, you bring it up here:
Originally posted by Enzeru
Sentry is mentally ill and has days, which are worse than others. That's typical for people with certain mental illnesses. Sentrys bio states that when his mental states wavers, he becomes easier to defeat.

In comics we've also seen Sentry dealing with some serious issues and in fights underperforming. In WORLD WAR HULK he was so anxious, that he couldn't leave his house for few days. When he had no choice but to engage the fight, his power output wasn't as impressive as during other showings. His energies spread over a couple of city blocks.
In NEW AVENGERS during the 'Collective' storyline he was also anxious and unsure, but when Captain America called for him, Sentry entered the fight, took the opponent into space and as the side effect of their fight a nearby moon got destroyed.
In THUNDERBOLTS Sentry didn't seem to struggle all too much. He didn't want to fight Photon on Earth, because he knew it would devastate the planet. Photon then teleported them into the Microverse, where the two of them engaged. Their escaping energies were not only destroying planets, but they were visible in the regular plane of existence. And you have to keep in mind that in the Microverse atoms have the size of planets.
In UNCANNY AVENGERS Sentry was affected by the Death Seed, which unlocked his potential. He was performing at his -until then and until now- absolute best. His power and strength mirrored the combined power of over a 100 heroes (including power houses like Blue Marvel, Hyperion, Captain Britain, Hulk and so on).

So when we talk about a stable Sentry, we talk about someone, who would bitchslap the WORLD WAR HULK version of the Sentry into oblivion.


It seems like it's something you can't get past when it happens all the time in comics. No greater example than Pak's last arc on that subject.

What I'm saying is that whether Sentry was weakened or not has no bearing on how much his power spread out, or how many planets didn't get destroyed. Collateral damage. Not a great indicator of where someone is operating.


Originally posted by Enzeru
My argument is that -looking past different writing styles / art styles / varying collateral damage portrayals- WW Hulk Sentry (mentally unstable and depowered) might have been able to destroy the Earth, but it would have taken him quite a while. His energy output was far more localized and was slowing growing and spreading out. At the same time during other instances Sentry (mentally more stable) immediately went on to leave the Earth in order to avoid causing any destruction. In space / the microverse his escaping energies were covering a much larger area.
And that goes hand in hand to the Sentry overall having less power during a weak mental state. And you still can't see why me talking about collateral damage wouldn't be relevant to what you're saying? What you are currently saying in this post is that his lack of spread strongly covered him being weakened. Hence why collateral damage is very relevant.

We've seen the exact same thing happen within two issues in the post you just quoted under the same writer. Where Hulk couldn't fully unleash his powers on Earth for fear of breaking the Earth (Pak even mocked the people who questioned it that arc), and then the next comic/same comic Hulk gets a massive upgrade and 4 of those levels of beings fighting each other while not holding back because they thought they were in the Dark Dimension were causing no collateral damage and were only an eventual threat to the planet. A lesser Hulk shattered a planet with the shockwave of a punch a ways above the planet. A way more powerful Hulk along with an equally powerful being stomped an amped Foom directly into the planet.

Sentry caused more damage than 4 WB plus Hulk level beings to the surrounding area under the same writer. But did less damage than a footstep from holding back WB Hulk. Under the same writer. You can't find consistency under one writer. Why would you expect that to tell the story over years under different writers?


That light show on its own was inconsistent with the rest of his portrayals as well. Surely Deathry, Dr Strange Sentry, and Voidtry from Siege were outputting more power than Photontry at the time, yet they did almost nothing to anything in the immediate area (besides the planet shaking punch). It was a different release of power to be sure, one seemingly unique to that portrayal.

Even the Collective fight which may or may not have destroyed a moon, had a rematch right by Earth and the Moon where the Collective was blindly lashing out with powers (and adapting as time went on) and the fight destroyed a satellite because Iron Man was flung into it.



Another one I just remembered because of the front page. MoD could destroy universes. Yet him and Clyde were throwing power and abstracts at each other and couldn't even destroy a room. Hell, he got hit with a temperature on which time and space breaks down and it still didn't instantly vaporize the whole building. This is the type of shit you deal with when you try to limit powers based on collateral damage. It is wildly inconsistent. Maybe one of the most inconsistent things in comics. Past the point of destroying something (planet, moon, sun), you really don't have to repeat it ever again to show you could. But that's just my thoughts.


Originally posted by Enzeru
And you bring in collateral damage, even though it's really just a side aspect of the bigger discussion at hand.

Also, you kinda are discussing if Sentry was weakened or not, since you're saying, that whatever happened during WW Hulk wouldn't reflect his damage output in a weakened state anyway. While at the same time, he had lost control over his power entirely and it was just oozing out of him and destroying the environment. Now obviously the Earth is protected by the plot, like you've said it... but what I'm saying is, that the plot had Sentry being depowered and operating on a smaller scale in the first place.

That'd be again, like in the main example being used, saying that Hulk was depowered even though a WB Hulk absorbed a bunch of gamma bombs and grew to a great height because the plot called for him operating on a lesser scale. I don't know if I can make it more clear than that. It's very similar to say the least. Only it happens in the same issue under the same writer.

I'm only discussing the matter of "collateral damage shows he was weakened", not him actually being weakened as that's a messy subject to be sure. I don't think his scale should factor into that. If the main point in this thread was that he was weakened because it said he was weakened, good for that. But the main point in this thread is that he was weakened because he burned 200 buildings instead of 20000, and hence why it's relevant.


Originally posted by Enzeru
Tell me what you think about Sentrys power level and damage output in general. Because right now I don't really know what I'm discussing, other than apparently not being allowed to take anything that happens on Earth into count due to collateral damage restrictions.
If you're saying, that WW Hulk fighting WW Sentry on a different planet and that planet being destroyed, wouldn't have been out of the question... and hence making an unstable Sentry still a planet buster (but potentially not that much weaker than a stable Sentry)... then sure, why not. I'll take it. His power was good. It wasn't his best feat, but it was above all the other heroes at the time. He can do better, but what he did was incredible anyway. He pretty much stalemated the most powerful Hulk outside of WB in raw power, it's nothing to sneeze at.

Pak probably would have written that fight to destroy a planet in another environment. We know a lesser Hulk is above many confirmed planet busters. Both of those characters on their own can destroy planets. We don't need to see that shit every fight. It limits the story. Sentry could break a window or a city in a fight and neither would have any bearing on the output he was using. As long as they have that feat or a couple in their back pocket, they don't have to do it every fight to show they're serious. Sentry could release all his power and burn a couple paper cups in a 10 foot radius in a fight against Odin and I wouldn't give 2 shits about the release of power. It's just a different portrayal.


Can you imagine how awful comics would be if every fight had to be a massively scale fight and no one could fight seriously on Earth because of it? Hell, a confident Sentry recently sucker punched Void in the face in a pissed off state and did ****ing nothing to the environment. That Void, which I'm sure you know was operating at a very high level. Yet no damage to the area was necessary to subdue him.



All I'm saying is that collateral damage is no indication of what level he was operating at. Simple. You want to say he had agoraphobia and was therefore weakened? Much better.
Using different writers spread out over a few years in different areas do not speak of how much scale effects his power levels. Especially Pak when his shit is wildly inconsistent in the first place on that aspect. Hell, that release of power on its own was exclusive to Pak and not relevant to whatever other sort of energy Sentry used to destroy moons and planets (shockwaves?). It's just different is all, but on its own, in no way an indicator of powers.

Originally posted by One Big Mob

All I'm saying is that collateral damage is no indication of what level he was operating at. Simple. You want to say he had agoraphobia and was therefore weakened? Much better.

Before we continue this, know that I perfectly understand your point of view on the collateral damage and I think that it has its validity. I agree with some of the points you made in your lengthy points, but I also disagree with others. I would still like to take this into another direction, because in the end of the day, we're having this discussion, because we disagree on certain stuff.

I've stated, that I try to view Marvel / DC / Image / whatever as individual living and breathing universes. I try to avoid bringing in outside forces like differing writers into discussions, because at that point, there is no way subconscious biases don't play a role:

Plus: "Sentry destroyed a moon. Look how freakin' awesome and powerful he is!"
Minus: "Sentry couldn't lift a helicarrier. Can Brian Michael Bendis do anything right?"

In Sentrys case I scale that with his mental stability and there are enough clear instances with context to back that up rather compellingly in most of the cases. Obviously, such an approach has its flaws, but it's a more fun and honest way of discussing comics.

Another example would be discussing the highest highs of characters. I was one of those, who were defending Thor and Hyperion actually fighting back against a couple of Beyonders. People ridiculed me for that and I perfectly understand why. But in my eyes, it's just an on-going theme with heroes, who play out of their league. Captain America hurt the Hulk. Spider-Man hurt Firelord. That shouldn't have happened. That was bad writing. But in my eyes, a character like Spider-Man can perform a once-in-a-lifetime-feat and harm a high herald. In my eyes, a character like Thor can perform a once-in-a-lifetime-feat and hurt a Beyonder. Didn't Batman make Superman bleed with a punch or something stupid like that?

I approach collateral damage the same way. Thor cracked Exitars head shell open and destroyed nearby mountains as a side effect. An all-out Thor smacked Gorr and shattered the planet below him and cracked nearby moons. In my eyes a non-holding back Thor can destroy a planet with Mjolnir smites.
But then you have instances, where Thor hits Nul-Hulk and sends him flying into space. You question that showing and talk about collateral damage, where I try to argue around it: "It was more of a lightning attack... Thor was aiming upwards... Yadda, yadda, yadda..."

But then again, maybe I'm just being a moron, because at the same time I don't apply power scaling to Dragonball. In Dragonball I do take a critical look at collateral damage and take away a lot of the power from Dragonball characters, because they didn't destroy Earth during their fights and so on. And if I'm not all too wrong, I think you do that in reverse and give Dragonball characters more credit than they deserve in my eyes, due to power scaling.

The Sentry discussion... I just use that to explain it in the simplest and most visual way possible. My argument is, that a stable holding back Sentry, can destroy planets, where an unstable, non-holding back Sentry can't destroy planets. I show two or three scans and people have a vague idea of how Sentrys power scales with mental stability... No matter, if that perfectly reflects the broader world of comic books. I just try to keep things simple.

I like to imagine there being a genteel tea party somewhere, where learned men, sipping fine teas, discuss the finer points of Oscar Wilde. Somewhere, a pretty girl is playing a harp, or maybe a flute, as lazy curls of blue gray cigar smoke float gently towards the ceiling.

Then Insane Titan comes in, with a bloody wild boar carcass across his shoulders, and throws it onto the table. Then screams.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I like to imagine there being a genteel tea party somewhere, where learned men, sipping fine teas, discuss the finer points of Oscar Wilde. Somewhere, a pretty girl is playing a harp, or maybe a flute, as lazy curls of blue gray cigar smoke float gently towards the ceiling.

Then Insane Titan comes in, with a bloody wild boar carcass across his shoulders, and throws it onto the table. Then screams. blowup

Enter: a stately country house in Congleton-Upon-avon. Sir Gorington-Streathley pauses, a fine china cup poised delicately in his fingers.

'I do declare, Bertie, but it was quite the to- do with those Huns in the cricket the other day, what?

Albert Warrington-Smith; Quite, quite. They were behaving perfectly ghastl-'

*THOOM*

Insane Titan: 'ARRGGGGGGGGHHHH YOUFACKINGCAHNTSYOUWANTSOMEOFTHISDOYA'

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Enter: a stately country house in Congleton-Upon-avon. Sir Gorington-Streathley pauses, a fine china cup poised delicately in his fingers.

'I do declare, Bertie, but it was quite the to- do with those Huns in the cricket the other day, what?

Albert Warrington-Smith; Quite, quite. They were behaving perfectly ghastl-'

*THOOM*

Insane Titan: 'ARRGGGGGGGGHHHH YOUFACKINGCAHNTSYOUWANTSOMEOFTHISDOYA'

Originally posted by Enzeru
Before we continue this, know that I perfectly understand your point of view on the collateral damage and I think that it has its validity. I agree with some of the points you made in your lengthy points, but I also disagree with others. I would still like to take this into another direction, because in the end of the day, we're having this discussion, because we disagree on certain stuff.

I've stated, that I try to view Marvel / DC / Image / whatever as individual living and breathing universes. I try to avoid bringing in outside forces like differing writers into discussions, because at that point, there is no way subconscious biases don't play a role:

Plus: "Sentry destroyed a moon. Look how freakin' awesome and powerful he is!"
Minus: "Sentry couldn't lift a helicarrier. Can Brian Michael Bendis do anything right?"

In Sentrys case I scale that with his mental stability and there are enough clear instances with context to back that up rather compellingly in most of the cases. Obviously, such an approach has its flaws, but it's a more fun and honest way of discussing comics.

Another example would be discussing the highest highs of characters. I was one of those, who were defending Thor and Hyperion actually fighting back against a couple of Beyonders. People ridiculed me for that and I perfectly understand why. But in my eyes, it's just an on-going theme with heroes, who play out of their league. Captain America hurt the Hulk. Spider-Man hurt Firelord. That shouldn't have happened. That was bad writing. But in my eyes, a character like Spider-Man can perform a once-in-a-lifetime-feat and harm a high herald. In my eyes, a character like Thor can perform a once-in-a-lifetime-feat and hurt a Beyonder. Didn't Batman make Superman bleed with a punch or something stupid like that?

I approach collateral damage the same way. Thor cracked Exitars head shell open and destroyed nearby mountains as a side effect. An all-out Thor smacked Gorr and shattered the planet below him and cracked nearby moons. In my eyes a non-holding back Thor can destroy a planet with Mjolnir smites.
But then you have instances, where Thor hits Nul-Hulk and sends him flying into space. You question that showing and talk about collateral damage, where I try to argue around it: "It was more of a lightning attack... Thor was aiming upwards... Yadda, yadda, yadda..."

But then again, maybe I'm just being a moron, because at the same time I don't apply power scaling to Dragonball. In Dragonball I do take a critical look at collateral damage and take away a lot of the power from Dragonball characters, because they didn't destroy Earth during their fights and so on. And if I'm not all too wrong, I think you do that in reverse and give Dragonball characters more credit than they deserve in my eyes, due to power scaling.

The Sentry discussion... I just use that to explain it in the simplest and most visual way possible. My argument is, that a stable holding back Sentry, can destroy planets, where an unstable, non-holding back Sentry can't destroy planets. I show two or three scans and people have a vague idea of how Sentrys power scales with mental stability... No matter, if that perfectly reflects the broader world of comic books. I just try to keep things simple. Fair enough. Just different ways to view the comic at that stage.

I just don't think comics are consistent enough to judge like that, you did it once or twice, that's good enough. You have trouble enough with the lifting and consistent showings against the same dude. Throwing another wrench in there like collateral damage makes it messy, especially how protected Earth is. For me anyway. That's not even factoring in dickhead writers like Bendis who seem to write things to spite people (one of the comics I looked through yesterday was him making a joke about murdering Alpha Flight).

Agree to disagree.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Fair enough. Just different ways to view the comic at that stage.

I just don't think comics are consistent enough to judge like that, you did it once or twice, that's good enough. You have trouble enough with the lifting and consistent showings against the same dude. Throwing another wrench in there like collateral damage makes it messy, especially how protected Earth is. For me anyway. That's not even factoring in dickhead writers like Bendis who seem to write things to spite people (one of the comics I looked through yesterday was him making a joke about murdering Alpha Flight).

Agree to disagree.

Murdering Alpha Flight is a good idea.

You raised some very good points, because different writers have differing points of views. Some writers would have the Rhino beat the crap out of the Wrecker, while another would have Luke Cage one shot crush the Rhino, only to have another writer have the Wrecker toss Cage from one end of NYC to the other.