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Adult Gohan at his weakest levels during DBS' RoF...

https://i.imgur.com/Yp4xolO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VAkMVQg.gif

... versus the strongest opponent he had to deal with when he was a better character.

https://i.imgur.com/k8uJhbe.png

Can RoF Gohan who couldn't even access SSJ2 give Cell a real challenge, or will Cell just make a sad example out of him like 1st form Frieza did?

https://i.imgur.com/7SrC3h5.gif

I feel like Cell would beat the christ out of him. /shrug

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Adult Gohan at his weakest levels during DBS' RoF...

https://i.imgur.com/Yp4xolO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VAkMVQg.gif

... versus the strongest opponent he had to deal with when he was a better character.

https://i.imgur.com/k8uJhbe.png

Can RoF Gohan who couldn't even access SSJ2 give Cell a real challenge, or will Cell just make a sad example out of him like 1st form Frieza did?

https://i.imgur.com/7SrC3h5.gif

At the levels set here, Gohan loses so badly. SO.BADLY.

Of course, if they ever did meet "current" levels in an anime/manga sequel, Cell would probably be Jiren+ level.

Cell stomps the shit out of him.

Cell wins.

Gohan can't even go super saiyan 2 there, can he?

He can barely go SSJ1.

This thread mainly be a shoutout to the Gohan denials who argued that he was still as strong in like RoF as he was when he still had his Mystic form. Y'know, Carver and those kind of loonies.

Now's your chance to prove to me that RoF Gohan wasn't another weak pussification.

edit: Oh yeah, there was the part with Gohan getting a comeback moment against Tagoma, but that was after Ginyu possessed him, and I can still buy that Ginyu weakened Tagoma severely...

The fact that he achieved his mystic form again later in the anime kinda disproved that idea.

Gohan should win pretty easily. His base form was way more powerful than Piccolo. Add a 50 times amp on there and he should beat down Cell pretty badly.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The fact that he achieved his mystic form again later in the anime kinda disproved that idea.
Wasn't that not until Piccolo pushed him hard in preparation for the ToP though? That was way later; before that when Gohan was always only seen using regular SSJ.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Gohan should win pretty easily. His base form was way more powerful than Piccolo. Add a 50 times amp on there and he should beat down Cell pretty badly.
Referring to RoF Piccolo I assume?... Forgot how disappointing most Z-fighters were at the time before the ToP arc amped most of them up, to a point.

Uncaped Piccolo was Android 17 level before a year of training in the RoSaT Hyperbolic Time Chamber. You assume he got any more powerful in the 8-9 years since the 17 fight and yeah, he should be a lot more powerful.

Even excluding that, if you put him from Frieza level to Android 17 in caped form, and add a 50 times amp on there and that should be more than enough to wipe out Cell.

I don't see how Gohan loses here. I mean he looked like horseshit, but that's because he is a horseshit character and the enemies got tougher.

You make sense, Bran

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Uncaped Piccolo was Android 17 level before a year of training in the RoSaT Hyperbolic Time Chamber. You assume he got any more powerful in the 8-9 years since the 17 fight and yeah, he should be a lot more powerful.

Even excluding that, if you put him from Frieza level to Android 17 in caped form, and add a 50 times amp on there and that should be more than enough to wipe out Cell.

I don't see how Gohan loses here. I mean he looked like horseshit, but that's because he is a horseshit character and the enemies got tougher.
As a Piccolo fan I'd want him to be that much stronger over the course of those years, but in RoF he didn't really get to do much besides be a meatshield for Gohan... and then struggled with a weaker Frieza from universe 6.

In any case, if Gohan does still win here based on the SSJ multiplier, then I guess it just goes to show that all power levels exist to do now is basically say that the dead villains are pussies, tho nowadays people just tend to ignore power levels anyway; as if X random dead character wouldn't be rescaled in power if revived now.

srug Either way, RoF Gohan definitely felt weaker than Buu era Gohan before the Elder Kai ritual/Z-sword training.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
As a Piccolo fan I'd want him to be that much stronger over the course of those years, but in RoF he didn't really get to do much besides be a meatshield for Gohan... and then struggled with a weaker Frieza from universe 6. Even if he wasn't, he doesn't exactly get weaker. He'd still be at least Frieza level after fusing with Kami.

Frost was weaker than Golden Frieza, but that doesn't mean he was weaker than Namek Frieza. Plus Piccolo put together enough power in that fight to punch through Vados' shield.

Judging by the beatdown he took from Goku, I'd say he was a ways above Namek Frieza. Being unquestionably stronger than Piccolo puts him anywhere from Perfect Cell to Buu depending on how much you think Piccolo powered up.

Keep in mind Frost did do some form of training as he fought for "peace" and therefore tried a little harder on average than Frieza.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
In any case, if Gohan does still win here based on the SSJ multiplier, then I guess it just goes to show that all power levels exist to do now is basically say that the dead villains are pussies, tho nowadays people just tend to ignore power levels anyway; as if X random dead character wouldn't be rescaled in power if revived now.

srug Either way, RoF Gohan definitely felt weaker than Buu era Gohan before the Elder Kai ritual/Z-sword training. That's all power levels were in the first place. The introduction of powers levels was Raditz around 1200 and ended with 150 million. The next time we got an indication was from Future 17 who said he wasn't using half his power to beat the shit out of around 150 Million Trunks. Even ignoring that, Cell eclipsed the last guy and then Cell became a low level peon come the next saga.

The thing that brought Super down to realistic levels was saying base Goku was less than Frieza while he became the most powerful Z fighter which gave us something to base it off of. Then it just went ****ing wild.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Referring to RoF Piccolo I assume?... Forgot how disappointing most Z-fighters were at the time before the ToP arc amped most of them up, to a point. The battle with Freeza's goons was meant to portray all the Z fighters equally, imo. That's why feebs like Jaco, Roshi, and Tien didn't really come off looking any better or worse than Piccolo, for example... Despite the ENORMOUS difference in power that should have existed between them.

That said, it's clear the overall intent of RoF was for Gohan to be at his weakest levels to date(he could barely even go SSJ at all, ffs.) No way in hell is that pathetic joke of a character beating Perfect Cell.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
edit: Oh yeah, there was the part with Gohan getting a comeback moment against Tagoma, but that was after Ginyu possessed him, and I can still buy that Ginyu weakened Tagoma severely... Indeed.

After all,
Tagoma ~ Mystic Gohan >>>>>>> SSJ Gohan(RoF) >> Tagoma(post-Ginyu).

...Which makes perfect sense, considering that Ginyu doesn't just instantly gain full control of the body's power when he hops into it -- there's a defined acclimation period. That's why Ginyu could only access a small fraction of Goku's power when they swapped bodies on Namek, for example.

I thought that was just because he didn't know how to kioken

Nope, it's because Ginyu doesn't know how to harness/control ki in general(remember, that was an exceedingly rare ability back then.)

When Goku originally fought Ginyu, for example, his base PL without any KK multipliers was 90,000.

That said, "Ginku's" PL peaked at a mere 23,000:
https://i.imgur.com/PP36WDo.jpg


We can assume the same basic thing happened when Ginyu body-swapped with Tagoma, for the same basic reason(but likely on a MUCH greater scale, considering Tagoma's power)... Especially since Ginyu outright stated that he was not accustomed to the body:
https://i.imgur.com/LiWc5wh.jpg


Which makes sense, considering Ginyu had been trapped inside a f*cking frog since the Namek saga... Ain't like he'd been secretly perfecting the technique all those years, lol.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Uncaped Piccolo was Android 17 level before a year of training in the RoSaT Hyperbolic Time Chamber. You assume he got any more powerful in the 8-9 years since the 17 fight and yeah, he should be a lot more powerful.

Even excluding that, if you put him from Frieza level to Android 17 in caped form, and add a 50 times amp on there and that should be more than enough to wipe out Cell.

I don't see how Gohan loses here. I mean he looked like horseshit, but that's because he is a horseshit character and the enemies got tougher.

He lost to Krillin. Much as I'd like to believe humans can get SSJ2+ level, without anything from the manga or anime, we have to assume Gohan is just that bad.

I mean, Android 17 being that good is a big assumption, too, but at least an android starting out at SSJ+ and training is enough of an X factor to give him the benefit of the doubt.

All things considered, I'd say-
Teen Gohan(Cell Games) > Adult Gohan(Boo saga) >> Papa Gohan(RoF)

This also means Boo-era Goku would've been much more powerful than RoF Gohan overall... But even by the Boo/BoG arcs, Goku's base power was still WEAKER than Namek-era Freeza's. IOW, RoF Gohan shouldn't have even been close to Freeza-level at base... Let alone f*cking #17 level+, lol.

As mentioned, though: there was absolutely NO 'logic' involved with PLs here. I mean, even Tagoma's power(which was Mystic Gohan-level) was gauged against Zarbon and Dodoria, ffs.

Originally posted by Galan007
I mean, even Tagoma's power(which was Mystic Gohan-level) was gauged against Zarbon and Dodoria, ffs.

But that was before his training with Frieza, right?

Originally posted by cdtm
He lost to Krillin. Much as I'd like to believe humans can get SSJ2+ level, without anything from the manga or anime, we have to assume Gohan is just that bad.

I mean, Android 17 being that good is a big assumption, too, but at least an android starting out at SSJ+ and training is enough of an X factor to give him the benefit of the doubt. He got tripped by Krillin, and a new form of solar flare. He wasn't hurt by Krillin.
Goku had just as much trouble against Krillin if not moreso, except Goku isn't retarded in battle like Gohan.

Krillin/Piccolo got one shotted by Ginyu. Gohan took quite a few attacks none the worse for wear. Which means he was more powerful than Piccolo. It's not a tough concept to get.

But Android 17 was that good in his first appearance. A 50 times amp on top of that level is way more than Cell can handle. Piccolo's power in caped form was more than likely above Frieza level. It should have been vastly above 17 level if we're being honest. How we feel about Goku/Gohan doesn't change that Piccolo didn't randomly get weaker.

Yeah, it went down exactly as you say.

Only, there's also the fact Krillin could even keep up with them.

Unless speed has a hard cap to it, but that's not how power levels have worked in the past.. Generally, EVERYTHING goes up.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
But that was before his training with Frieza, right? Sorry, this is what I was thinking of:
https://i.imgur.com/DaBvuV2.jpg

Same concept applies, though. Tagoma = Mystic Gohan-level, yet he was being gauged against a team where the strongest member's PL was 120,000. ffs.

Originally posted by Galan007
Sorry, this is what I was thinking of:
https://i.imgur.com/DaBvuV2.jpg

Same concept applies, though. Tagoma = Mystic Gohan-level, yet he was being gauged against a team where the strongest member's PL was 120,000. ffs. That's pretty fair though to ground it a little better. Just shows that the Frieza Empire never surpassed the old days. Ginyu was still a big deal.

Sill a bit retarded given that Sorbet already knew about the SSJ transformation(s) at that point, and also knew about beings like Boo. He had also been monitoring earth for quite a while, and was also monitoring the Z Fighters while they fought Freeza's goons.

...Yet he still acted like Tagoma surpassing the Ginyu Force was some kind of big deal. Meh.

Because he knew his dudes sucked dick

Originally posted by Galan007
Sorry, this is what I was thinking of:
https://i.imgur.com/DaBvuV2.jpg

Same concept applies, though. Tagoma = Mystic Gohan-level, yet he was being gauged against a team where the strongest member's PL was 120,000. ffs.



Yeah, that was retarded.

Funny how little training Gohan needed to fight Goku, btw

The fact that Gohan isn't even sure at first whether or not he can still go SSJ1 is telling. As for Piccolo, he's just sucked ever since the Cell saga, for some reason. Even base Vegeta seemed confident he could take him during the Buu saga, although I can't remember if that was debunked or not.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
As for Piccolo, he's just sucked ever since the Cell saga, for some reason. Even base Vegeta seemed confident he could take him during the Buu saga, although I can't remember if that was debunked or not. Makes sense. After all, Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin, Kaioshin, and Kibito all followed Yamu and Spopovich to Babidi's ship. While they were hiding, Dabra and Babidi noted that THREE of them(not counting Kaioshin, because they couldn't use his energy) had great power. They needed that power to resurrect Boo, therefore they needed those THREE to follow them into the ship.

Dabra then proceeded to immediately kill Kibito, and then specifically incapacitated Piccolo and Krillin with his stone-spit... Leaving only Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan as potential energy sources. This heavily implies that ALL of the Saiyans...even at base...were considered more powerful than Piccolo back then. I mean, if Piccolo would have been one of the aforementioned three, Dabra certainly wouldn't have removed him from play.

Additionally, we know Dabra and Babidi weren't somehow sensing the Saiyans' inner SSJ ki or w/e, because they were both awestruck by the power Goku and Gohan could generate when they actually went SSJ.


Of course, the events of BoG render the above moot, given Beerus' assessment that base Goku < Freeza... But again, I think Toriyama certainly had a different opinion of the Saiyans' overall powers back then. /shrug

Also, it was established that Supreme Kai >>> Piccolo pretty early on in the arc, and he felt seriously threatened by fighters like Pui Pui and Yakon, whom shouldn't have been stronger than Frieza. Then again, the Supreme Kai claimed that he could one-shot Frieza, too...

Piccolo had an uber regen feat in the Buu Saga...

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Then again, the Supreme Kai claimed that he could one-shot Frieza, too... Not that I'm disagreeing with Kaoshin's claim that he could one-shot Freeza, but it's really hard to believe a guy THAT powerful would be so utterly awestruck by base Vegeta's power when he destroyed PuiPui. /shrug

tcCg9-nW3F4

SSJ Pussyhan >>>>> Base Pussyhan > BS Piccolo >>>>>>>>>>>> SPC >>>>> PC