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It isn't a violation of someone else's rights, so why is the govern intervening?

Because legal prostitution is called "marriage".

I personally think prostitution is morally reprehensible, but I don't think it should be prevented by government force.

That being said it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that it's illegal in a society that criminalizes weed.

Just off the top of my head, to preserve...or at least somewhat enforce...marital fidelity. Don't want lovers getting some action on the side or turning tricks themselves without a means to punish them for it, I guess.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
It isn't a violation of someone else's rights, so why is the govern intervening?

Because the government cannot regulate and tax it.

It wouldn't hurt to regulate it. It would be a start on the war against human traffic, but who am I kidding?

The Gov probably regulates that already.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Because the government cannot regulate and tax it.

They regulate and tax the port industry. What's the difference, other then a name and setting?

Isn't it legal in Las Vegas? So it's legal there, but not taxed or regulated? Really?

it's not legal in vegas, captain misinformo.

Because politicians are prudes.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
it's not legal in vegas, captain misinformo. It's legal in certain counties in Nevada.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
it's not legal in vegas, captain misinformo.

Looked it up, it's illegal outside of licensed brothels in certain parts of Nevada.

So again, this shit is just not taxed, correct? Or regulated, correct?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
It's legal in certain counties in Nevada.

nothing i said contradicts that.

Still gonna need an explanation for how they can't be taxed, like Adam said.

oh i'm sorry i didn't realize i was cornered in another strawman argument. what's my position on taxation of prostitution, according to you?

if i have to pay taxes for whoring myself, why shouldn't they. other than that idgaf

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
oh i'm sorry i didn't realize i was cornered in another strawman argument. what's my position on taxation of prostitution, according to you?

if i have to pay taxes for whoring myself, why shouldn't they. other than that idgaf

Well you see you responded to my query about that. You seem to have implied you were aware that prostitution is legal in some parts of Nevada, just not in Las Vegas. Or perhaps I am mistaken and you merely just mean "I didn't know it was legal in some parts, it just doesn't contradict my LV claim".

Yet curiously did not explain if it was taxed or not.

It's okay, you just missed that part of my post.

Anyways, I never said you feel they shouldn't be taxed. I'm asking if Adam is correct in that we could not tax this stuff if we legalize it. Since why would we make it legal in certain areas...only to just not tax or regulate it?

my only comment on this entire topic concerned your misinformation, and now you are butthurt and coping via manufacturing triumph via strawman.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
my only comment on this entire topic concerned your misinformation, and now you are butthurt and coping via manufacturing triumph via strawman.

I'm not butthurt. If you're truly saying you weren't aware and only were aware it wasn't legal in LV, that is fine with me.

I still want someone to answer how it is able to be taxed in the places it is legal. I cannot imagine it is not taxed.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm not butthurt. If you're truly saying you weren't aware and only were aware it wasn't legal in LV, that is fine with me.

I still want someone to answer how it is able to be taxed in the places it is legal. I cannot imagine it is not taxed.

As far as the federal govt maybe they are just 1099 and file their own taxes and pick a category that falls into some service or entertainment category.

Originally posted by snowdragon
As far as the federal govt maybe they are just 1099 and file their own taxes and pick a category that falls into some service or entertainment category.

I understand, sounds like a possibility.

I still would find it odd if we couldn't tax this if we made it legal. Do what Nevada does in certain places. Make it so you need to work in a licensed brothel for it to be legal.

I fail to see why, if we went with that, we'd be unable to tax or regulate it. It wouldn't end all illegal prostitution...people would still be ho'ing on the streets too, but some women would have options to do it legally. Plus we'd get more money from the taxes, etc.

Make it legal, I just don't want to see it glamorized. It should be made clear young girls should not aspire to be hookers.

Unfortunately young women are already turning to becoming hookers. Example: these sugar daddy websites. Banging a dude so he gives them gifts or pays for their college. That's prostitution. But somehow okay. I'm guessing cuz they see the things as "gifts".

To be taxed it'd seem to have to be at a brothel, or with some sort of receipt and contract. Otherwise the whores can just go around claiming they only took 2 dicks and pocket the 10 dick money they actually earned.

Basically you'd need more paper trails and professionism involved to tax it. And the whores couldn't just be independant whores that file their own taxes because they could easily lie and destroy the evidence. They'd need to likely go through a system or business that accurately keeps track of how many miles of dick they take.

All of this would likely drive down business as well. No longer could the Surtur's of the world just go and blow a load in a toothless hooker after a failed night out at the bar. They would have to go through a system that would cause at the very least pause and thought. Plus the whores would likely have to jack up the prices to account for less business and being taxed for taking a dick up the poopchute.

And there'd always be whores who work under the table stealing customers away from honest hard working 9 to 5 whores. Cheaper whores with less hassle time until you slide an unwashed drunken dick in them.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
To be taxed it'd seem to have to be at a brothel, or with some sort of receipt and contract. Otherwise the whores can just go around claiming they only took 2 dicks and pocket the 10 dick money they actually earned.

Basically you'd need more paper trails and professionism involved to tax it. And the whores couldn't just be independant whores that file their own taxes because they could easily lie and destroy the evidence. They'd need to likely go through a system or business that accurately keeps track of how many miles of dick they take.

All of this would likely drive down business as well. No longer could the Surtur's of the world just go and blow a load in a toothless hooker after a failed night out at the bar. They would have to go through a system that would cause at the very least pause and thought. Plus the whores would likely have to jack up the prices to account for less business and being taxed for taking a dick up the poopchute.

And there'd always be whores who work under the table stealing customers away from honest hard working 9 to 5 whores. Cheaper whores with less hassle time until you slide an unwashed drunken dick in them.

Well yeah, apparently in Nevada the places that have it need to be brothels with licenses.

There's a billion tangled up reasons why it's illegal. Religion, good-intentioned but misguided efforts to protect sex workers, lack of mainstream education on the topic, lack of high profile activism around it, straight up sexism, perceived difficulty in regulating it, certain branches of feminism, lack of representation for sex workers in government, people confusing sex trafficking with sex work, economic inequality, social stigma, politicians afraid to honestly engage with the issue(goes back to the stigma), etc

I think what you're asking is should it be illegal. To which, I say legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it. Make it a legitimate occupation. Fight the stigma. Educate the populace. Include sex workers in the policy decisions and always, always, always prioritize their safety.

Because Politicians don't want the competition.

You pay your officials to **** you, and you are satisfied with their service. Now shut up and get back to work.

Originally posted by Surtur
Make it legal, I just don't want to see it glamorized. It should be made clear young girls should not aspire to be hookers.
I'd say the people who want to be hookers should go be hookers. The people who don't want to be hookers, should not be hookers.

Assuming we could get to a point with maximum safety/agency for the sex worker and the client, shouldn't it just be looked at as a job? Assuming you're talented at it, why not do it if you want? You're not less of a human for slapping a dick around and getting paid.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I'd say the people who want to be hookers should go be hookers. The people who don't want to be hookers, should not be hookers.

Assuming we could get to a point with maximum safety/agency for the sex worker and the client, shouldn't it just be looked at as a job? Assuming you're talented at it, why not do it if you want? You're not less of a human for slapping a dick around and getting paid. Have you ever talked to a hooker? They're awful lazy people. All of them do meth too. I don't have the stats in front of me, but iirc 104 percent of hookers do meth or are addicted to some hardcore drug.

They are most certainly less of a human being. At least strippers have to be in shape and have to do stuff. Hookers don't have to do shit.

I was an IT contractor to the Public Sector, here in England. Hookers are several steps up the evolutionary and moral ladder, from public sector "workers".


It's no exaggeration to say that a council worker spends more time, effort and ingenuity avoiding the work they are employed to do, than actually doing it.

If a task takes 2hrs to complete, you have to factor in 1 day of arse-dragging, a couple of hours lunch, a smoke/tea break for every 2 "working" hours and at least 2 calls to attend to some committee or union meeting.

Hookers are far more honourable and trust worthy.

City workers are the laziest workers possible, but they still do 10 times the work a hooker does. Even the ones that stand there and watch one person lazily shoveling in a 6 man group.

All a hooker needs to do in a day is score some meth and suck and ride a couple dicks. She theoretically doesn't even need to walk in a day if she plays it out right, or even get up off her back outside pissing out ooze.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
City workers are the laziest workers possible, but they still do 10 times the work a hooker does. Even the ones that stand there and watch one person lazily shoveling in a 6 man group.

All a hooker needs to do in a day is score some meth and suck and ride a couple dicks. She theoretically doesn't even need to walk in a day if she plays it out right, or even get up off her back outside pissing out ooze.
TBF Bran, there's a lot of variance in hooker performance. Yeah there's a fair share who don't charge much then just lay back and take a dick, but there are also those who charge more and give a much better experience. They eat right and work out to make sure they're hot for their clients, they'll sit around and talk about your problems like a girl friend would, go out on actual dates if you want, do the whole "seduction routine", and all that kind of shit. You can't lump them all into the same heading, that's like using nvr or Trick as the image of all debaters.

Originally posted by darthgoober
TBF Bran, there's a lot of variance in hooker performance. Yeah there's a fair share who don't charge much then just lay back and take a dick, but there are also those who charge more and give a much better experience. They eat right and work out to make sure they're hot for their clients, they'll sit around and talk about your problems like a girl friend would, go out on actual dates if you want, do the whole "seduction routine", and all that kind of shit. You can't lump them all into the same heading, that's like using nvr or Trick as the image of all debaters. I realize, but the bare minimum to be a hooker is to be willing to get porked. You could be paralyzed which I'm sure a few Carvers would be into.

The maximum effort required is apparently to pretend to be a girlfriend or a normal human being who takes care of themselves for a couple hours a day.

No matter how you slice it, it's lazy as shit.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
I realize, but the bare minimum to be a hooker is to be willing to get porked. You could be paralyzed which I'm sure a few Carvers would be into.

The maximum effort required is apparently to pretend to be a girlfriend or a normal human being who takes care of themselves for a couple hours a day.

No matter how you slice it, it's lazy as shit.
No more so than anyone who's job is based around their appearance though. And personally I think it would take more mental fortitude to repeatedly lick the ass hole of someone you're totally unattracted to and pretend to like it than it would to walk a runway or star on a sitcom.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Have you ever talked to a hooker? They're awful lazy people. All of them do meth too. I don't have the stats in front of me, but iirc 104 percent of hookers do meth or are addicted to some hardcore drug.

They are most certainly less of a human being. At least strippers have to be in shape and have to do stuff. Hookers don't have to do shit.
Yes, I've met a few. Seen/heard others in interviews and such. They run the gamut from fairly intelligent to complete morons, as with most jobs. All were 100% human beings.

Regardless, that isn't a problem inherent in sex work. It's a problem inherent in forcing an entire class of people into the shadows. If you throw folks into the sewer, they will get dirty.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I'd say the people who want to be hookers should go be hookers. The people who don't want to be hookers, should not be hookers.

Assuming we could get to a point with maximum safety/agency for the sex worker and the client, shouldn't it just be looked at as a job? Assuming you're talented at it, why not do it if you want? You're not less of a human for slapping a dick around and getting paid.
I disagree with you that it shouldn't be morally disapproved of.

I'm a Christian, so I'm obviously a bit biased in this regard, but I think Jesus demonstrates the attitude towards this that I would approve of in society. He made it clear that he morally disapproves of prostitution and adultery, but despite expressing that stance he still treated them with warmth and basic human decency.

In the same way I think it should be stigmatized in the way that society morally disapproves of it but I still think sex workers should be treated with basic human decency despite that.

I'm not a particular fan of either the moral libertine approach where we promote the idea that doing whatever you want within the confines of not violating people's rights is equally as valid as any other decision, or the attitude of "Oh look at how pure I am and look at how impure everyone else is, they're filth they should be treated as pariahs."

Originally posted by StyleTime
Yes, I've met a few. Seen/heard others in interviews and such. They run the gamut from fairly intelligent to complete morons, as with most jobs. All were 100% human beings.

Regardless, that isn't a problem inherent in sex work. It's a problem inherent in forcing an entire class of people into the shadows. If you throw folks into the sewer, they will get dirty. They threw themselves in there though 90 percent of the time.

Originally posted by darthgoober
No more so than anyone who's job is based around their appearance though. And personally I think it would take more mental fortitude to repeatedly lick the ass hole of someone you're totally unattracted to and pretend to like it than it would to walk a runway or star on a sitcom. Ehh...

Regardless, models and actors have schedules that aren't completely controlled by them. And also have to suck dick to get paid or get where they want. As well as be girlfriends and sleep with people.

Sitcom schedules are brutal as well. And models had to suck a lot of dick to get where they wanted to be. As well as starvation and retarded schedules.
I'm not saying it's harder than a normal job, but it's a lot more work than being a hooker.

The mental angle is an interesting one, but it still doesn't make them not lazy. I've forced myself to get hard over some tough situations, sometimes you gotta do it, especially when you continue doing it instead of actually working a job for a living. And a lot of hookers actually decline clients as well.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Regardless, models and actors have schedules that aren't completely controlled by them. And also have to suck dick to get paid or get where they want. As well as be girlfriends and sleep with people.

Sitcom schedules are brutal as well. And models had to suck a lot of dick to get where they wanted to be. As well as starvation and retarded schedules.
I'm not saying it's harder than a normal job, but it's a lot more work than being a hooker.

The mental angle is an interesting one, but it still doesn't make them not lazy. I've forced myself to get hard over some tough situations, sometimes you gotta do it, especially when you continue doing it instead of actually working a job for a living. And a lot of hookers actually decline clients as well.

Street hookers don't have total control over their schedules either, their pimps do. Some of those girls spend all night every night servicing guys.

Hey I'm not saying that SOME aren't lazy, but there's a big difference between laying back and taking a dick for 15 minutes and spending a couple of hours riding a guy who's having a hard time getting there. As for comparing the mental stress to a regular job, be honest and tell me whether you'd rather put in a full shift at work or have some guy with a 9 inch dick pound you in the ass for a solid hour...

Originally posted by One Big Mob
To be taxed it'd seem to have to be at a brothel, or with some sort of receipt and contract. Otherwise the whores can just go around claiming they only took 2 dicks and pocket the 10 dick money they actually earned.

Basically you'd need more paper trails and professionism involved to tax it. And the whores couldn't just be independant whores that file their own taxes because they could easily lie and destroy the evidence. They'd need to likely go through a system or business that accurately keeps track of how many miles of dick they take.

All of this would likely drive down business as well. No longer could the Surtur's of the world just go and blow a load in a toothless hooker after a failed night out at the bar. They would have to go through a system that would cause at the very least pause and thought. Plus the whores would likely have to jack up the prices to account for less business and being taxed for taking a dick up the poopchute.

And there'd always be whores who work under the table stealing customers away from honest hard working 9 to 5 whores. Cheaper whores with less hassle time until you slide an unwashed drunken dick in them.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Street hookers don't have total control over their schedules either, their pimps do. Some of those girls spend all night every night servicing guys.

Hey I'm not saying that SOME aren't lazy, but there's a big difference between laying back and taking a dick for 15 minutes and spending a couple of hours riding a guy who's having a hard time getting there. As for comparing the mental stress to a regular job, be honest and tell me whether you'd rather put in a full shift at work or have some guy with a 9 inch dick pound you in the ass for a solid hour... Street hookers are being phased out and work way harder than the girlfriend experience hookers you spoke of earlier. At the end of the day, they're still not exactly doing anything, and are making way more money than say Debbie Stiltmen who has been a manager at Arby's for 12 years.

All of them are lazy. It comes with the job description. You chose to get plowed because you were too lazy to find a real job. Some are just lazier than others.
And those people who ride dick normally have an actual job to do besides getting plowed. They just dabble in the tough work of a hooker from time to time. Think of every normal woman as having a taste of the Infinite just like Thanos with the HOTU.

Anal is optional and costs more. A lot more. And the hooker is usually prepped for it.
That being said, I'd rather work a full shift than have a dick pubic hair near my butthole. Because it's an unfair comparison. However, I'd rather blast a fat chick in the arse while hopped up on viagra than work a full shift, and make way more money doing it.

If the mental stress is too great, maybe stop taking big dicked anal clients or find a real job. There are options here.


I'm not saying hookers aren't great or should be phased out. I'm just saying they're by definition lazy people. Usually awful people to be around outside of clients. And love meth.
They don't work hard, they just have to put up with a lot of dicks. It's not like they can't work actual jobs, they just would rather be sucking dick for money.

It'd be like saying the mental stress of being a welfare bum is hard because you have to deal with social services all the time because your kid goes to school with a plastic bag for a shirt and they found bruises on him one or eleven times.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Street hookers are being phased out and work way harder than the girlfriend experience hookers you spoke of earlier. At the end of the day, they're still not exactly doing anything, and are making way more money than say Debbie Stiltmen who has been a manager at Arby's for 12 years.

All of them are lazy. It comes with the job description. You chose to get plowed because you were too lazy to find a real job. Some are just lazier than others.
And those people who ride dick normally have an actual job to do besides getting plowed. They just dabble in the tough work of a hooker from time to time. Think of every normal woman as having a taste of the Infinite just like Thanos with the HOTU.

Anal is optional and costs more. A lot more. And the hooker is usually prepped for it.
That being said, I'd rather work a full shift than have a dick pubic hair near my butthole. Because it's an unfair comparison. However, I'd rather blast a fat chick in the arse while hopped up on viagra than work a full shift, and make way more money doing it.

If the mental stress is too great, maybe stop taking big dicked anal clients or find a real job. There are options here.


I'm not saying hookers aren't great or should be phased out. I'm just saying they're by definition lazy people. Usually awful people to be around outside of clients. And love meth.
They don't work hard, they just have to put up with a lot of dicks. It's not like they can't work actual jobs, they just would rather be sucking dick for money.

It'd be like saying the mental stress of being a welfare bum is hard because you have to deal with social services all the time because your kid goes to school with a plastic bag for a shirt and they found bruises on him one or eleven times.
See I disagree, I don't think they're anyone else who's occupation is dependent upon their appearance. I don't think that choosing not to do a lot of physically taxing labor is inherently lazy... I mean most people's motto is "work smarter not harder".

Hell as you say, you'd rather **** a fat chick than work a shift for less money. That doesn't mean that you're lazy. Lazy people do as little as possible but some hookers go above and beyond what's strictly required to make the rent and such.

I see the profession as having a great POTENTIAL for laziness, just as other jobs don't require a large amount of physical labor does(guys like computer programmers spend their whole work day sitting on their ass and expend far less physical energy than many hookers), but I don't see the profession itself as being inherently lazy.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
It isn't a violation of someone else's rights, so why is the govern intervening? For the same reason you can watch someone get riddled with bullets on TV but a nipple makes any American show R-rated. Christianity is whack.

I don't even think Christianity is THE thing keeping it illegal anymore. It's def why it was outlawed in the first place and undoubtedly still plays a role in the form of an excuse, but I doubt it's the true reason anymore. Sex is the 2nd biggest motivator for men behind hunger. If sex were more readily available, men wouldn't have to work as hard to buy things to impress women to have sex. And if prostitution were legal more women would do it which would lower the price of prostitution so socially inept guys would need even less money to pay for them to have sex. The government wants to keep people working, the economy wants to keep people buying, and the vast majority of women want to maintain their dominance in social situations... I think these are the real reasons it's illegal nowadays.

Originally posted by darthgoober
See I disagree, I don't think they're anyone else who's occupation is dependent upon their appearance. I don't think that choosing not to do a lot of physically taxing labor is inherently lazy... I mean most people's motto is "work smarter not harder".

Hell as you say, you'd rather **** a fat chick than work a shift for less money. That doesn't mean that you're lazy. Lazy people do as little as possible but some hookers go above and beyond what's strictly required to make the rent and such.

I see the profession as having a great POTENTIAL for laziness, just as other jobs don't require a large amount of physical labor does(guys like computer programmers spend their whole work day sitting on their ass and expend far less physical energy than many hookers), but I don't see the profession itself as being inherently lazy.
The hookers who go above and beyond are apparently comparable to part time girlfriends though... those girlfriends also have real jobs (hopefully).

If I quit my job to sodomize fat chicks, I would be.

How many whores quit their dayjob because it was too hard and just started sleeping with dudes for money? They could have done anything in the world but they chose hooking because it was the easiest way to make money. They didn't have to go to school to learn how to properly take a dick up the ass. They didn't have to step on the heads of all the midgets to get to the top of hooking. They didn't have to convince a bunch of fickle buyers to try their pussy out for a spin ("I don't know, my last hooker had a spare tire and had a huge trunk, I'll think about it and ask my wife". All they had to do was do what everyone else does on a daily or weekly basis. And if they were pretty, they could make more. If they got really good at sucking dick, they could make more. It's not a hooker eat hooker world out there, they just have to be willing to get a sometimes floppy dick thrown in their face. No reading or writing required. No thought required. No actual real life skills are needed besides taking a mean dick.

Computer programmers also have to go to school and spend money and effort to get where they want to be. Then they have to do a bunch of complex shit far beyond a normal peons mind for hours a day on a deadline. A hooker has to one day decide she has to have sex for money and maybe advertise it a couple places. Imagine if everyone on Tinder got paid for it and never actually worked.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
The hookers who go above and beyond are apparently comparable to part time girlfriends though... those girlfriends also have real jobs (hopefully).

If I quit my job to sodomize fat chicks, I would be.

How many whores quit their dayjob because it was too hard and just started sleeping with dudes for money? They could have done anything in the world but they chose hooking because it was the easiest way to make money. They didn't have to go to school to learn how to properly take a dick up the ass. They didn't have to step on the heads of all the midgets to get to the top of hooking. They didn't have to convince a bunch of fickle buyers to try their pussy out for a spin ("I don't know, my last hooker had a spare tire and had a huge trunk, I'll think about it and ask my wife". All they had to do was do what everyone else does on a daily or weekly basis. And if they were pretty, they could make more. If they got really good at sucking dick, they could make more. It's not a hooker eat hooker world out there, they just have to be willing to get a sometimes floppy dick thrown in their face. No reading or writing required. No thought required. No actual real life skills are needed besides taking a mean dick.

Computer programmers also have to go to school and spend money and effort to get where they want to be. Then they have to do a bunch of complex shit far beyond a normal peons mind for hours a day on a deadline. A hooker has to one day decide she has to have sex for money and maybe advertise it a couple places. Imagine if everyone on Tinder got paid for it and never actually worked.
I wouldn't say they are on average. Most girlfriends are pickier than hookers in the bedroom. Good hookers are comparable to GREAT girlfriends lol

Yeah but I suspect if the job was actually available as steady work I suspect you WOULD(and tbf, I guarantee I would), but it's not so you don't. My point is that laziness is more of a mental trait representative of a person's lack of drive and/or work ethic than it is a physical manifestation of the actions that are taken.

Yeah and models and movie stars choose that work over deep sea crab fishing or construction work for the same reason... It's an easier job for more money.

Going to school is still sitting around all day, as is spending money. You already discounted mental stress/effort as a counter to laziness, so why do guys like computer geeks and accountants get a free pass?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I wouldn't say they are on average. Most girlfriends are pickier than hookers in the bedroom. Good hookers are comparable to GREAT girlfriends lol

Yeah but I suspect if the job was actually available as steady work I suspect you WOULD(and tbf, I guarantee I would), but it's not so you don't. My point is that laziness is more of a mental trait representative of a person's lack of drive and/or work ethic than it is a physical manifestation of the actions that are taken.

Yeah and models and movie stars choose that work over deep sea crab fishing or construction work for the same reason... It's an easier job for more money.

Going to school is still sitting around all day, as is spending money. You already discounted mental stress/effort as a counter to laziness, so why do guys like computer geeks and accountants get a free pass? Alright. So great hookers just have to have sex better then. That doesn't exactly change the point. A hooker putting in work is comparable to what a happy girlfriend does who has a tight pussy game.
That's still not a great deal of effort.


I work 12 to 15 hours a day of hard physical labor. You can't exactly use me as an example of something else I'd rather do. I'd rather be flipping burgers and making the same amount of money. ****ing rights I'd pork a couple fatties over my job. But what am I actually doing if I was a hooker? Popping viagras and thrusting fatties. That's it. Of course stress would come with the job, but does that actually change what I'm doing. Woe is me I made 300 bucks off an hour with a fatty who hasn't washed in a while. I have 3 more appointments today. I'm such a hard worker.

Also their drive and work ethic made them end up as a hooker. That's my whole point. Everything else looked too hard, and they gravitated towards hooking instead.




I didn't discount mental stress or effort. I discounted the mental stess of taking a dick they didn't want to take but still consented to it.
Because I don't think having sex is in anyway comparable to the stress that comes with an actual job. Sure it can **** you up mentally, but just because you're stressed, that doesn't mean you're doing much.
As for mental effort... I don't think that's applicable to hookers.

You're acting like hookers have to do this or that and can't change their minds midway through as well. There's no ****ing way a hooker would take a nine inch dong up the tailpipe for an hour if she couldn't handle it. You're confusing hookers for sex slaves I think.
When Backpage was still around every other hooker would outright say "No blacks or muslims" as well as a list of what they'd do. A hooker isn't going to sit there and let you rip her ass in twix. They're not locked into an unbreakable contract. If I jammed both my hands in her rectum and tried to open it to put my head in she'd probably tell me to cut the shenanigans.

An actual guy at my actual job had an actual mental breakdown due to the actual stress of the job. I doubt many hookers can say the same tbh.

Being a prostitute is not a hard job, and as Bran said in many cases can be very profitable. But I don't fault them for this. The demand for paid sex is such that they can charge such high prices for an hour of their time. And doing less work for more money is a no-brainer.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Alright. So great hookers just have to have sex better then. That doesn't exactly change the point. A hooker putting in work is comparable to what a happy girlfriend does who has a tight pussy game.
That's still not a great deal of effort.


I work 12 to 15 hours a day of hard physical labor. You can't exactly use me as an example of something else I'd rather do. I'd rather be flipping burgers and making the same amount of money. ****ing rights I'd pork a couple fatties over my job. But what am I actually doing if I was a hooker? Popping viagras and thrusting fatties. That's it. Of course stress would come with the job, but does that actually change what I'm doing. Woe is me I made 300 bucks off an hour with a fatty who hasn't washed in a while. I have 3 more appointments today. I'm such a hard worker.

Also their drive and work ethic made them end up as a hooker. That's my whole point. Everything else looked too hard, and they gravitated towards hooking instead.




I didn't discount mental stress or effort. I discounted the mental stess of taking a dick they didn't want to take but still consented to it.
Because I don't think having sex is in anyway comparable to the stress that comes with an actual job. Sure it can **** you up mentally, but just because you're stressed, that doesn't mean you're doing much.
As for mental effort... I don't think that's applicable to hookers.

You're acting like hookers have to do this or that and can't change their minds midway through as well. There's no ****ing way a hooker would take a nine inch dong up the tailpipe for an hour if she couldn't handle it. You're confusing hookers for sex slaves I think.
When Backpage was still around every other hooker would outright say "No blacks or muslims" as well as a list of what they'd do. A hooker isn't going to sit there and let you rip her ass in twix. They're not locked into an unbreakable contract. If I jammed both my hands in her rectum and tried to open it to put my head in she'd probably tell me to cut the shenanigans.

Nah see it's not NECESSARILY a great deal of effort, but it can be. Sex can be extremely physically taxing.

And popping viagra and having sex with fatties can require a lot of physical effort. And model's and movie stars drive and work ethic chose their profession instead of more difficult jobs too. You're assuming that the appeal to hooking is the lack of effort in getting the job rather than the money available for doing the job but I guarantee not hookers subscribe to your projected motivation.

Having good sex IS doing stuff... a lot of stuff in fact. I guarantee that a good hooker burns at least 50 times more calories than someone who sits at a desk all day. So there's a lot of physical exertion and mental stress... doesn't sound like an inherently lazy profession to me. Sure they could get a different job if they put more effort into other things, but the same can be said of most people. Engineers aren't lazy just because they're not nuclear physicists.

What you're saying applies to all jobs though. You can quit any job for which you lack a written contract, doesn't mean the job does require a lot of mental effort or come with a lot of mental stress.

Originally posted by NemeBro
An actual guy at my actual job had an actual mental breakdown due to the actual stress of the job. I doubt many hookers can say the same tbh.

Being a prostitute is not a hard job, and as Bran said in many cases can be very profitable. But I don't fault them for this. The demand for paid sex is such that they can charge such high prices for an hour of their time. And doing less work for more money is a no-brainer.
If you think there's any kind of lack of mental health issues among hookers that arise from their job I assure you that you're wrong.

I think a big problem here is that people disregard prostitution because most people enjoy sex. But using that reasoning musicians, artists, athletes, or anyone else who enjoys their job should likewise be disregarded.

Originally posted by darthgoober
If you think there's any kind of lack of mental health issues among hookers that arise from their job I assure you that you're wrong. Among street hookers sure, but I believe Bran made it clear that he wasn't talking about those. Am I wrong?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I think a big problem here is that people disregard prostitution because most people enjoy sex. But using that reasoning musicians, artists, athletes, or anyone else who enjoys their job should likewise be disregarded. I don't have a problem with prostitution at all. I just don't view it as being nearly as stressful or hard work as hard physical labor or even working one of the more physically-demanding jobs at a retailer.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Among street hookers sure, but I believe Bran made it clear that he wasn't talking about those. Am I wrong?
Bran believes that prostitution of any form is an inherently easy job done only by lazy people.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I don't have a problem with prostitution at all. I just don't view it as being nearly as stressful or hard work as hard physical labor or even working one of the more physically-demanding jobs at a retailer.
You really think that a 6-8 hour shift at a retail job at some place like K-Mart is more physically taxing than 2 or 3 hours of vigorous sex? What about an office job like an accountant or computer programmer?

Originally posted by darthgoober
You really think that a 6-8 hour shift at a retail job at some place like K-Mart is more physically taxing than 2 or 3 hours of vigorous sex?

I'm not talking about being a punk ass cashier or whatever, I'm talking about loading forty bags of eighty pound concrete into a truck by hand, collecting carts under the hot sun in July or in near-freezing weather, collecting a few dozen twenty inch pavers from a hole in the ground, unloading trucks of 2,000+ boxes of often heavy freight on a two hour deadline, etc.

Yes, I would consider the people with those jobs as having more difficult ones than having great sex for a few hours.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I'm not talking about being a punk ass cashier or whatever, I'm talking about loading forty bags of eighty pound concrete into a truck by hand, collecting carts under the hot sun in July or in near-freezing weather, collecting a few dozen twenty inch pavers from a hole in the ground, unloading trucks of 2,000+ boxes of often heavy freight on a two hour deadline, etc.

Yes, I would consider the people with those jobs as having more difficult ones than having great sex for a few hours.
Is it your contention that anything other than back breaking labor constitutes an "easy job"?

Also, in general hookers don't HAVE "great sex", they GIVE great sex... there's a subtle but distinct difference between those two things.

Real estate agents are in the top 5 most suicide prevalent professions in America. Playing victim-Olympics with jobs is a pointless endeavor if one lacks the empathy or first-hand experience with a profession to understand the tribulations that go with it.

Originally posted by cdtm
They regulate and tax the port industry. What's the difference, other then a name and setting?

Prostitution is clandestine in a way, pornography is not:

Originally posted by One Big Mob
To be taxed it'd seem to have to be at a brothel, or with some sort of receipt and contract. Otherwise the whores can just go around claiming they only took 2 dicks and pocket the 10 dick money they actually earned.


There is no way for the government to know who is having sex with whom in exchange for what at any given moment.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Is it your contention that anything other than back breaking labor constitutes an "easy job"?

Also, in general hookers don't HAVE "great sex", they GIVE great sex... there's a subtle but distinct difference between those two things. To be honest a little bit. I'm currently doing quite a bit of what I just named, and while I don't mind right now since it keeps me strong and in great shape for someone who eats garbage like I do, it's hard for me to empathize with people working what to me seem to be much easier jobs, but I do know that psychologically we are conditioned to frame our priorities according to our current situations. It's why money doesn't buy happiness. You get used to the money and your priorities shift to make you stress over shit that seems trivial to someone without money.

I'm aware of that and it's why I don't have a problem with hookers at all. If a woman can make solid money doing what I perceive as a relatively easy job then good on her.

As for your second point, that's fair enough, I understand the distinction and didn't mean to imply otherwise.

Originally posted by NemeBro
To be honest a little bit. I'm currently doing quite a bit of what I just named, and while I don't mind right now since it keeps me strong and in great shape for someone who eats garbage like I do, it's hard for me to empathize with people working what to me seem to be much easier jobs, but I do know that psychologically we are conditioned to frame our priorities according to our current situations. It's why money doesn't buy happiness. You get used to the money and your priorities shift to make you stress over shit that seems trivial to someone without money.

I'm aware of that and it's why I don't have a problem with hookers at all. If a woman can make solid money doing what I perceive as a relatively easy job then good on her.

As for your second point, that's fair enough, I understand the distinction and didn't mean to imply otherwise.
See I would disagree on that point, simply because it's a general point of a relative nature being ascribed to a specific perspective. For instance, you can and will wake up on the day of your next shift, go to work, and get the job done even though it's physically difficult. On the other hand, if you woke up and on the way to work you got snatched by the KGB, and told by them to hack into the Pentagon you'd probably say something to the effect of "I can't do that". Therefor to you, hacking is more difficult than loading boxes. That doesn't mean what you're doing is less physically demanding, but it's a lot easier for you than what the KGB would have you do.

Originally posted by NemeBro
An actual guy at my actual job had an actual mental breakdown due to the actual stress of the job. I doubt many hookers can say the same tbh.

Being a prostitute is not a hard job, and as Bran said in many cases can be very profitable. But I don't fault them for this. The demand for paid sex is such that they can charge such high prices for an hour of their time. And doing less work for more money is a no-brainer. Pretty much this.

I'm just saying they're lazy is all. I would never want a world without hookers, but I'm not going to pretend they're doing such a hard job.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Nah see it's not NECESSARILY a great deal of effort, but it can be. Sex can be extremely physically taxing.

And popping viagra and having sex with fatties can require a lot of physical effort. And model's and movie stars drive and work ethic chose their profession instead of more difficult jobs too. You're assuming that the appeal to hooking is the lack of effort in getting the job rather than the money available for doing the job but I guarantee not hookers subscribe to your projected motivation.

Having good sex IS doing stuff... a lot of stuff in fact. I guarantee that a good hooker burns at least 50 times more calories than someone who sits at a desk all day. So there's a lot of physical exertion and mental stress... doesn't sound like an inherently lazy profession to me. Sure they could get a different job if they put more effort into other things, but the same can be said of most people. Engineers aren't lazy just because they're not nuclear physicists.

What you're saying applies to all jobs though. You can quit any job for which you lack a written contract, doesn't mean the job does require a lot of mental effort or come with a lot of mental stress. Maybe off a dry spell. If you're ****ing multiple times a day for set intervals or lower, you're not going to be too worn and torn from it. Especially if a lot of times it's just a bj or the dude is doing everything (anal), or if you're a super lazy hooker.
The biggest thing is the core after a dry spell.

Eh. Maybe if I'm wrestling them. Plus guys have to do more during sex anyway and burn more calories which still isn't much. A good hooker might burn 500 extra calories a day if she's lucky. That's not a lot, but it sure is for the worthless amount of calories sex burns.

Getting into modelling and movies is not very easy. You can become a hooker today and make money. Good luck getting into any sort of runway show or movie within five years. Not to mention they have schools that cost real money for both. People's whole lives have been destroyed trying to break into acting and failing. You wasted a lot of money and got nowhere. Imagine a Hooker having to go to hooking school and spends tens of thousands of dollars while having to do better than all the other hooker students and she just never gets her big break after a period of 5-10 years. She made no money and worked too long of hours away from her family. Her husband left her because her drive of becoming a great hooker surpassed her time with her family. Poor hooker with her drive and determination.

The appeal to hooking is the money AND they're lazy. It's not exactly seperate. You're already a whore and you just want to sit around doing coke all day, ever thought of hooking? Now you like meth and hooking and you pushed everyone out of your life.

The thing with these comparisons is that you're contrasting it with jobs that require skills vs a job that requires nothing. Not even work. If a Jessica Alba hooker popped up that laid there like a dead fish, she would still make massive amounts of money. Not every hooker is going to be a great lay. And not every hooker is going to be treated like she's on Facial Abuse. A lot of the times the bare minimum is exactly what happens. You think a hooker is going to burn herself out getting plowed? She has a couple more clients to get through.

But that's not what I'm speaking of in the last part. I'm saying these hookers aren't getting treated like dirt more often than not. They're not enduring monster dicks up the ass for more than they can handle because they can and will cut you off the second they exit their comfort zone. They have stress from what they're comfortable with and what they allow. And they are perfectly comfortable with strange men inside them.

And a hooker quitting a client will only lead her to find another in the same day. A human being quitting a job will lead to a sometimes lengthy job search. A hooker quitting her job will lead her to the same. Congrats, life is normal again.

I again have no doubt they have mental stress, but it's from something they're comfortable with. They're not getting raped. They like having sex with strangers and making money. They have gotten used to it. The same way you got used to driving a car or something. Sure it's scary at first, but after a while it's second nature. And they have rules in place to keep them in that comfort zone. It's not all monster dicks and cheesy cocks. If they don't want something, it's not happening. And they get a small retainer for it without anything happening.
The boss isn't yelling at them while they try their hardest to jack that dick off. They just have to take a penis up the rectum from someone they have no attraction to. And the meth helps.


Also no mental effort. Trying to design a building that doesn't fall down is not the same as wondering how long until this guy ejaculates into my face.

How long have you been a pimp, do you think we should tax you as a business owner?

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Pretty much this.

I'm just saying they're lazy is all. I would never want a world without hookers, but I'm not going to pretend they're doing such a hard job.

Maybe off a dry spell. If you're ****ing multiple times a day for set intervals or lower, you're not going to be too worn and torn from it. Especially if a lot of times it's just a bj or the dude is doing everything (anal), or if you're a super lazy hooker.
The biggest thing is the core after a dry spell.

Eh. Maybe if I'm wrestling them. Plus guys have to do more during sex anyway and burn more calories which still isn't much. A good hooker might burn 500 extra calories a day if she's lucky. That's not a lot, but it sure is for the worthless amount of calories sex burns.

Getting into modelling and movies is not very easy. You can become a hooker today and make money. Good luck getting into any sort of runway show or movie within five years. Not to mention they have schools that cost real money for both. People's whole lives have been destroyed trying to break into acting and failing. You wasted a lot of money and got nowhere. Imagine a Hooker having to go to hooking school and spends tens of thousands of dollars while having to do better than all the other hooker students and she just never gets her big break after a period of 5-10 years. She made no money and worked too long of hours away from her family. Her husband left her because her drive of becoming a great hooker surpassed her time with her family. Poor hooker with her drive and determination.

The appeal to hooking is the money AND they're lazy. It's not exactly seperate. You're already a whore and you just want to sit around doing coke all day, ever thought of hooking? Now you like meth and hooking and you pushed everyone out of your life.

The thing with these comparisons is that you're contrasting it with jobs that require skills vs a job that requires nothing. Not even work. If a Jessica Alba hooker popped up that laid there like a dead fish, she would still make massive amounts of money. Not every hooker is going to be a great lay. And not every hooker is going to be treated like she's on Facial Abuse. A lot of the times the bare minimum is exactly what happens. You think a hooker is going to burn herself out getting plowed? She has a couple more clients to get through.

But that's not what I'm speaking of in the last part. I'm saying these hookers aren't getting treated like dirt more often than not. They're not enduring monster dicks up the ass for more than they can handle because they can and will cut you off the second they exit their comfort zone. They have stress from what they're comfortable with and what they allow. And they are perfectly comfortable with strange men inside them.

And a hooker quitting a client will only lead her to find another in the same day. A human being quitting a job will lead to a sometimes lengthy job search. A hooker quitting her job will lead her to the same. Congrats, life is normal again.

I again have no doubt they have mental stress, but it's from something they're comfortable with. They're not getting raped. They like having sex with strangers and making money. They have gotten used to it. The same way you got used to driving a car or something. Sure it's scary at first, but after a while it's second nature. And they have rules in place to keep them in that comfort zone. It's not all monster dicks and cheesy cocks. If they don't want something, it's not happening. And they get a small retainer for it without anything happening.
The boss isn't yelling at them while they try their hardest to jack that dick off. They just have to take a penis up the rectum from someone they have no attraction to. And the meth helps.


Also no mental effort. Trying to design a building that doesn't fall down is not the same as wondering how long until this guy ejaculates into my face.
Being conditioned to be able to handle physical exertion doesn't change the amount of work being done. Otherwise pro athletes would lose points since they're physically conditioned to handle the game.

In general guys do more, but not always. I have no doubt that there are hookers who spend more time riding certain clients than vice versa. And if you're not putting in a lot of physical effort during sex, then IMO you're not doing it right lol. There should be a large part of your sheet that's wet from sweat alone when you're done.

Good sex IS a skill. I know because I've slept with my share of girls who just layed there and I've heard of plenty of guys who are minute men. I'm in no way suggesting that every hooker is going to rock your world and give you mind blowing sex, simply that such hookers exist. Not all models and actors work for their job either, Pam Anderson got discovered on a big screen at a baseball game and immediately went to work. There are plenty of terrible actresses who get jobs simply by being pretty and/or showing their boobs. Some work hard to be successful, and some don't. My point is that you can't say all prostitutes are lazy when some put real effort in maintaining their appearance and showing their clients a good time.

And again, ALL people look for jobs that they can handle the mental rigors of, that doesn't change take away from the mental rigors of the job in question. I seriously doubt that everyone could handle the life of a hooker, especially the ones who actually work at it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Being conditioned to be able to handle physical exertion doesn't change the amount of work being done. Otherwise pro athletes would lose points since they're physically conditioned to handle the game.

In general guys do more, but not always. I have no doubt that there are hookers who spend more time riding certain clients than vice versa. And if you're not putting in a lot of physical effort during sex, then IMO you're not doing it right lol. There should be a large part of your sheet that's wet from sweat alone when you're done.

Good sex IS a skill. I know because I've slept with my share of girls who just layed there and I've heard of plenty of guys who are minute men. I'm in no way suggesting that every hooker is going to rock your world and give you mind blowing sex, simply that such hookers exist. Not all models and actors work for their job either, Pam Anderson got discovered on a big screen at a baseball game and immediately went to work. Some work hard to be successful, and some don't. My point is that you can't say all prostitutes are lazy when some put real effort in maintaining their appearance and showing their clients a good time.

And again, ALL people look for jobs that they can handle the mental rigors of, that doesn't change take away from the mental rigors of the job in question. I seriously doubt that everyone could handle the life of a hooker, especially the ones who actually work at it. The only time you really get ****ed up during sex though is off a dry spell. Otherwise it's what you said, sweat.
Unlike athletes, everyone ****s and everyone gets used to it. It's not some unheard of physical exertion. And chances are if a girl becomes a hooker, she was already a massive whore who loved sex, and can endure the rigors of it. Also her uncle was inside her.
Every girl in the world could become a hooker. Not everyone can become a pro athlete. We aren't talking about Derrick the 32 year old who once fooled around with his cousin's yoohoo 2 years ago. We're talking about sexually experienced people who don't cringe from how taxing sex would be.
"Hey, you want to take me home and pound my pussy?"
"No thanks, I just ate and you're not supposed to pound pussies until an hour after eating."

It's really not something I look at as "hard" if you will. I work out too, so that might minimize it. I sweat from all sorts of things, and sex might be the least taxing of it all. A side note because I just remembered a goliath... but you know how many fat out of shape whores there are? I don't know what it's like to be obese or a girl, but if these large whores are doing it all the time, it can't be too taxing for in shape hookers. Especially when they can do it multiple times a day.
I couldn't deadlift twice a day, but I sure as shit could put my best wiener forward multiple times a day. And I doubt many hookers work themselves to a heavy breathing sweat anyway. And good sex isn't exactly a skill that only a hooker would have. I bet Tiger Woods fuks like a chimney but he still plays a mean round of golf.

You're overplaying any possible sort of thing a hooker could do and making it seem like the rest of the population couldn't handle it.
Good sex
Having lots of sex
Dealing with the stress of stranger sex
Assfukked

I wish I only had to deal with these sort of issues (except the assfukking). It's a real woe is me problem. Many normal people deal with this on a day to day basis in smaller quantities. They do what most people dream of doing 25 hours a day for a living. It's like Miss Double Dees complaining about how heavy her boobs are to Little Miss As, except that's an actual issue. It'd be like Mandingo talking about how hard it is to fit into underwear to a guy with a four inch cock.
Normal people want to do these sorts of things IN ADDITION to having an actual job. If you ever go to a man group on Facebook, these guys are fukking animals who only want to fuk everything. If normal people could **** multiple times a day, they would. I had a serious think about slipping it in that goliath I mentioned earlier for instance. Very glad I did not... yet (?).

These whores are used to it. They can handle it. They don't exhaust themselves during, and so on and so forth. They do it because it's easy. They do it because they're lazy whores.




Some are outliers sure. But prostitutes can break into prostitution easier than Pam could into acting.


But it takes away from the stress when they're used to it. Sure if you throw an Amish girl into a hooker schedule she's going to break. But a hooker doesn't feel the same stress because she's dead inside. If a hooker wasn't comfortable getting plowed by a stranger, she would never do it in the first place. It alleviates the burden of the act when they're already comfortable with it.

Take my job for instance. People quit all the time because they realize maybe they actually are scared of heights. They feel the intense stress of looking at the ground. I do not, because I am used to it. I feel zero stress over the heights now. The hooker doesn't feel the same stress that a normal person would because she's a filthy hooker. The stress is greatly lessened. It's just "Yeah whatever throw that dick in my face, oh you're so big daddy!"

Anyone else in danger of flipping their computer desk over with their erections from reading Bran's posts?

https://78.media.tumblr.com/fb671c5c2958839b340db6fdcfd90823/tumblr_n3rmh1gGkS1s2wio8o1_500.gif

Sweat is an indication of physical exertion, physical exertion is something lazy people avoid if they can. And the level of exertion isn't something that just everyone can get used to, otherwise older people would never get tired from sex.

Exactly, you voluntarily work out so it doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but not everyone works out like you do. And you apparently work out to the point that the energy you expend during sex seems to pale in comparison, so it doesn't seem like all that much. And just as there are plenty of people who aren't hookers who are good at sex, there are plenty of non pro golfers who are good at golf who do it just for fun. Doesn't change the fact that golfing is a skill.

If everyone could be easily be good at sex, then everyone WOULD be good at sex. By the same token, if everyone COULD be attractive and keep up their appearance then everyone WOULD. Lots of people lack the mental discipline and drive to get good at sex and maintain their appearance. It's more than just spending a couple of hours at the gym for some people, it's the gym, dieting, a strict makeup routine, and developing a desirable demeanor. You act as though modeling is a more difficult job but the only thing they really do that hookers don't is travel on planes. Everything else is just standing around/walking, and hookers on the street stand and walk more than models do every single night. And unlike models, hookers don't have other people in charge of making sure they look pretty, it's a job they're responsible for themselves. And then on top of that, the task of having sex requires more physical exertion than having one's picture taken.

EVERYONE wishes that all they had to deal with was the issues they perceive someone else has. You offer the average hooker a job as a model or actress and they'll freaking jump at it. So will the chick who works the register at Wal-Mart or the hostess at Chilis. Far fewer of them would be willing to work as a hooker though, otherwise they would because as you yourself say, there aren't many job requirements and it pays more. They're not avoiding working two jobs to pay the rent because they're against being lazy, they're avoiding it because they see it as a job they can't really handle.

What's more, you seem to be implying that a person's job is THE determining factor as to whether or not a person is lazy. But if that were the case all stay at home moms would automatically be lazy people by your definition.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
They threw themselves in there though 90 percent of the time.
Again, there are tons of factors at play here. And most of the problems you're referencing are tied to the fact that it's still, largely, an underground activity. It's legitimately one of the more dangerous jobs around. Murder, rape, having your ass kicked, etc are all part of the package currently....and police typically won't/can't help because of who you are. Pretending like it's some walk in the park because "it's just sex" is horribly disingenuous.

Regardless, it's irrelevant whether or not you consider it an occupation for lazy **** ups. Making money doing something "lazy" is allowed. Just seems like you wanted to shit on prostitutes.

I mean, that's your right of course.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I disagree with you that it shouldn't be morally disapproved of.

I'm a Christian, so I'm obviously a bit biased in this regard, but I think Jesus demonstrates the attitude towards this that I would approve of in society. He made it clear that he morally disapproves of prostitution and adultery, but despite expressing that stance he still treated them with warmth and basic human decency.

In the same way I think it should be stigmatized in the way that society morally disapproves of it but I still think sex workers should be treated with basic human decency despite that.

I'm not a particular fan of either the moral libertine approach where we promote the idea that doing whatever you want within the confines of not violating people's rights is equally as valid as any other decision, or the attitude of "Oh look at how pure I am and look at how impure everyone else is, they're filth they should be treated as pariahs."
You're allowed to find it morally reprehensible. I think treating them with human decency naturally fights the stigmatization though, so you're, in practice, mostly on the same page on me.

/shrug

Oh, and the moral libertine thing. I don't know if you necessarily need to invoke that. You could easily argue that giving agency to a disenfranchised class, raising them out of economic uncertainty, and protecting them from a fairly dangerous underworld is morally worthwhile. There's room for us all here in society, and we'd likely benefit from their economic participation to boot.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I disagree with you that it shouldn't be morally disapproved of.

Is a prostitute hurting someone else?
No?
Then it's not immoral.

Get off your high horse.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sweat is an indication of physical exertion, physical exertion is something lazy people avoid if they can. And the level of exertion isn't something that just everyone can get used to, otherwise older people would never get tired from sex.

Exactly, you voluntarily work out so it doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but not everyone works out like you do. And you apparently work out to the point that the energy you expend during sex seems to pale in comparison, so it doesn't seem like all that much. And just as there are plenty of people who aren't hookers who are good at sex, there are plenty of non pro golfers who are good at golf who do it just for fun. Doesn't change the fact that golfing is a skill.

If everyone could be easily be good at sex, then everyone WOULD be good at sex. By the same token, if everyone COULD be attractive and keep up their appearance then everyone WOULD. Lots of people lack the mental discipline and drive to get good at sex and maintain their appearance. It's more than just spending a couple of hours at the gym for some people, it's the gym, dieting, a strict makeup routine, and developing a desirable demeanor. You act as though modeling is a more difficult job but the only thing they really do that hookers don't is travel on planes. Everything else is just standing around/walking, and hookers on the street stand and walk more than models do every single night. And unlike models, hookers don't have other people in charge of making sure they look pretty, it's a job they're responsible for themselves. And then on top of that, the task of having sex requires more physical exertion than having one's picture taken.

EVERYONE wishes that all they had to deal with was the issues they perceive someone else has. You offer the average hooker a job as a model or actress and they'll freaking jump at it. So will the chick who works the register at Wal-Mart or the hostess at Chilis. Far fewer of them would be willing to work as a hooker though, otherwise they would because as you yourself say, there aren't many job requirements and it pays more. They're not avoiding working two jobs to pay the rent because they're against being lazy, they're avoiding it because they see it as a job they can't really handle.

What's more, you seem to be implying that a person's job is THE determining factor as to whether or not a person is lazy. But if that were the case all stay at home moms would automatically be lazy people by your definition. Bruv, it's just sex a couple times a day.
Around here all the daywalker Hookers are all lazy out of shape natives. A bunch of the lot lizards are old women. And these are the ones you guys keep bringing up as a defense against the lazy claim.

Sure the streetwalkers might put in more work in an average day than a model, maybe. But at the end of the day they're not exactly doing much, either.

I mean look at them STANDING here? Woah, tough racket.
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Or all these in shape hookers who have to walk around a truck stop
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Models have to look pretty for the cameras where a lot of the times it's unrealistic. Hookers have to doll themselves up like any other girl who leaves the house. They need these people for fashion shows as well for the quick change. The modern whore doesn't even need to leave the house though she probably should.


Again, woe is the hooker. You could throw every issue they have out there and at the end of the day they're still having sex for lots of money. Of course the hooker would take a chance to be famous and make more money though. It doesn't mean she thought it through, or had to go through the ringer that the average person had to go through to get there. No hooker is going to become the next Daniel Day Lewis though. Hooker Day Lewis would sound ridiculous.


Choosing to be a whore is pretty lazy though. It's not simply the job, it's just what you chose to be in life instead. If a stay at home mom was a welfare bum who didn't do a bang up job, she'd be lazy too. A stay at home mom who actually looks after their kid and the house the entire time the kid is there is a different story.
You think any of these whores are going home and doing a reno? That they go home and make a huge thanksgiving meal for their families? That they come home with a jizz stained dress and take their kids to karate practice?
No, it's meth and drugs after work. Maybe some heavy drinking.


Maybe it's my job, maybe it's the hookers I've seen on the streets or talked to, but it just seems like the laziest choice in life. Some of these little shit towns you can't park for a couple minutes without seeing fat native whores coming up to the vehicle. And those are the hard working ones who walk around apparently.

But I digress. Agree to disagree on lazy whores.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Again, there are tons of factors at play here. And most of the problems you're referencing are tied to the fact that it's still, largely, an underground activity. It's legitimately one of the more dangerous jobs around. Murder, rape, having your ass kicked, etc are all part of the package currently....and police typically won't/can't help because of who you are. Pretending like it's some walk in the park because "it's just sex" is horribly disingenuous.

Regardless, it's irrelevant whether or not you consider it an occupation for lazy **** ups. Making money doing something "lazy" is allowed. Just seems like you wanted to shit on prostitutes.

I mean, that's your right of course.
Seems pretty obvious I wasn't speaking of nightwalkers. I think my second post said they didn't even have to walk anymore. I'm talking about the modern whore who can use a phone.

That being said I still think streetwalkers are also a lazy choice, just not as lazy. But I would never say streetwalking isn't dangerous or a walk in the park (modern whores don't even need to walk in the park). Some of the greatest killers of all time slaughtered hookers en masse. My mom also thinks my dad was murdering hookers when he went away for work and hookers were disappearing in the area (the guy he was with said he was gone all the time). I am well aware of the dangers of streetwalking and lot lizards. I was only speaking about how little the actual "job" entails and the mental stress of the modern whore. These whores built a super lazy empire off the backs of murdered street hookers.

It's pretty relevant to what I'm saying though. I consider them lazy is all. It's my biggest issue with the occupation that I never see brought up.
Of course I want to shit on hookers though. For too long have they been held to a hard working standard. If I can change one person's mind on them actually being lazy whores then I've done my job.

sounds like a lot of people here have had a bad time with a prostitute and have become jaded. sad.

On the other hand, I imagine being abused by your employers, your clients etc. or being the victim of human trafficking could make your job quite stressful. Weirdly enough, there might even been a link between this and drug abuse

There are strong connections between prositution and mental health issues, substance abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and exploitation, which makes me hesitant to support its legalisation, and I don't think it should be encouraged. Better to decriminalise it for the women involved and put money into schemes helping women to get more rewarding and less harmful jobs.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
sounds like a lot of people here have had a bad time with a prostitute and have become jaded. sad.

On the other hand, I imagine being abused by your employers, your clients etc. or being the victim of human trafficking could make your job quite stressful. Weirdly enough, there might even been a link between this and drug abuse

There are strong connections between prositution and mental health issues, substance abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and exploitation, which makes me hesitant to support its legalisation, and I don't think it should be encouraged. Better to decriminalise it for the women involved and put money into schemes helping women to get more rewarding and less harmful jobs.
First sentence aside this is a rare moment where I actually agree with the entirety of Beni's post. The stars must've aligned or hell must've frozen over or some shit, but it actually happened.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Seems pretty obvious I wasn't speaking of nightwalkers. I think my second post said they didn't even have to walk anymore. I'm talking about the modern whore who can use a phone.

That being said I still think streetwalkers are also a lazy choice, just not as lazy. But I would never say streetwalking isn't dangerous or a walk in the park (modern whores don't even need to walk in the park). Some of the greatest killers of all time slaughtered hookers en masse. My mom also thinks my dad was murdering hookers when he went away for work and hookers were disappearing in the area (the guy he was with said he was gone all the time). I am well aware of the dangers of streetwalking and lot lizards. I was only speaking about how little the actual "job" entails and the mental stress of the modern whore. These whores built a super lazy empire off the backs of murdered street hookers.

It's pretty relevant to what I'm saying though. I consider them lazy is all. It's my biggest issue with the occupation that I never see brought up.
Of course I want to shit on hookers though. For too long have they been held to a hard working standard. If I can change one person's mind on them actually being lazy whores then I've done my job.
I wasn't just talking about streetwalkers. The internet did help curb violence against these men and women and removed many of them from the street, true. Also, it's helped porn performers, although slightly different topic. Problem is, the threat of client and police perpetrated violence still exists, and legitimate sex trafficking is harder to identify. The likelihood for a sex worker dying on the job is ultimately much, much higher than the average worker. https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/159/8/778/91471
Even the high end, college educated escorts undertook risks most of us don't have to. To make things worse, Trump's FOSTA plan is likely going to set sex work back 20 years and drive everyone back underground/into the streets. That ties into that "good intentioned but misguided" thing I mentioned in my first post.

I know, neither here nor there as far as you're concerned. Your point is that they are lazy. I don't agree as a blanket statement, but you're entitled to your view. We're basically going down unrelated paths at this point, so I'll leave this alone.

I love prostitutes. They're my favorite victims.

Originally posted by BackFire
I love prostitutes. They're my favorite victims.

Probably depends on what part of the industry.

I get the impression Russian/Ukraine/European sex workers aren't treated well at all. Your common US "Sugar daddy", otoh, usually treats their workers better then a husband.

I like pimps, they're good people.

Originally posted by cdtm


I like pimps, they're good people.


Why is 'pimp slap' a thing then?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Is a prostitute hurting someone else?
No?
Then it's not immoral.
I don't think it's particularly emotionally healthy for either person involved, I think it's a very risky and dangerous line of work, I don't think it is a moral good to reduce people to sexual objects, and I don't think it's good for the culture of civilization to undermine the institution of monogamy. If people want to do that they should feel free to do that, and I shouldn't treat them horribly, but they aren't entitled to my moral approval.

That being said by that same token, is me having a moral opinion you disagree with hurting anyone? An opinion that has no bearing on the laws I would or wouldn't support in my capacity as a voter or someone who partakes in political dialogue, and an opinion that has no bearing on whether or not I would treat a person with basic human dignity? Who am I hurting?

It's very strange to me that people often think nobody is entitled to have an opinion on sexual behavior (an action) because "it's none of your business" and "who is it hurting?" but those same people are willing to get outrage and act like I've committed some transgression for holding an opinion (a thought) that doesn't effect the way I vote or the dignity with which I treat another person.

As another example, I'm a stoner. If somebody thinks smoking weed is immoral (as some of my friends do), but they aren't going to treat me with any less dignity for it and from a liberty loving principle would still support weed legalization, then I couldn't give a shit about their opinion. Maybe I'd try and change it in a discussion, but I'm not going to get upset about it or think they're a pompous *******. Because I'm entitled to not have the government infringe upon my rights, and I think it's reasonable to ask that I be treated with dignity, but I don't remotely think I'm entitled to someone else's moral approval for my actions, or that I'm entitled to them self-censoring their moral belief. If they aren't acting to restrict my rights, if they are treating me with dignity, and if they are speaking honestly and openly about their moral views even if they're moral views I disagree with, then they are behaving exactly how I'd want them to behave.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Get off your high horse.
This is implying I think I'm some avatar of moral purity, which isn't something I actually believe. If I sat in bed for two minutes and thought about it, I could come up with a lengthy list of my own moral flaws, some of which are trivial (I'm not as patient as I should be when things agitate me, or the fact that I sometimes get resentful towards people on here and I think it's immoral to hold resentment towards anyone), and some of which are more serious (my work ethic which isn't everything it should be, or the fact that I don't do charity work nearly as much as I should, or the fact that I almost got into a car accident less than an hour ago because I was paying insufficient attention to the road). I know I am not everything I could be or should be, and I think we'd live in a worse world if society didn't consider my moral flaws to be moral flaws.

Expressing a moral opinion doesn't automatically mean someone is putting themselves on a high horse if they aren't pretending to be a superior being. I certainly don't think I'm an avatar of moral purity, and there are undoubtedly prostitutes out there of both greater and lesser moral character than myself. I could give less of a shit about dickmeasuring my own moral character next to other people's, what I care about is pursuing the standards that will make me a better person in relation to who I am now, and speaking honestly about my moral convictions.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Get off your high horse.

I'd like to point out that this is definitely a double entendre considering the thread topic.

There's such a broad aspect of prostitution and the levels of danger and stress it can bring. The high-end call girl who is having a few dates a month because her executive clients pay her $5,000.00 a night to have dinner and then f--k in a 5-star hotel isn't comparable to the sex-worker who is blowing guys in their cars for $20.00 a pop and is far more at risk from STDs and a nutjob looking to hurt a woman.


Prostitution should be legal though and it should be regulated. I personally like the idea of the sex houses like the Bunny Ranch in Nevada. The women are tested regularly, they're required to use condoms, they're in a safe environment, they have list of what they will and won't do so there's no confusion from the client's expectation, the clients are known (show ID) so they're far less likely to attack or act a fool etc.

Originally posted by steverules_2
Why is 'pimp slap' a thing then?

Misinterpretation. It's usually the pimp getting slapped by a belligerent hoe.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
lot lizards
This term cracks me up for some reason. Same as the word "prostitot" for child sex workers.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
On the other hand, I imagine being abused by your employers, your clients etc. or being the victim of human trafficking could make your job quite stressful. Weirdly enough, there might even been a link between this and drug abuse

There are strong connections between prositution and mental health issues, substance abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and exploitation, which makes me hesitant to support its legalisation, and I don't think it should be encouraged. Better to decriminalise it for the women involved and put money into schemes helping women to get more rewarding and less harmful jobs.

How much of this comes from it being illegal though?

Decriminilazing it for the worker means they avoid arrest, but still face all the same problems unfortunately. The clients, out of fear of punishment, will go underground, which means the workers must follow.

If you mean the New Zealand style of decriminalization, then I'm mostly in agreement though. It's functionally the same as legalizing it, and it hasn't turned into the nightmare scenario some folks have of every kid growing up dreaming about being a prostitute. It's equated to more safety and agency for the ones involved though, as reported by the workers themselves. Interestingly, male sex workers here are more likely to have money stolen than women. I wonder what causes that?
https://www.otago.ac.nz/christchurch/otago018607.pdf

While this was just Nevada, 84% of workers report feeling safe at work. There's no evidence of sex trafficking either. They have security and policemen ready and willing to help them because they aren't be treated like criminal sub-humans.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/04/19/is-legalized-prostitution-safer/nevadas-legal-brothels-make-workers-feel-safer

I'm open to other arguments, but I really see no other option being superior to full blown legalization. The only way to eliminate the shadows is to bring this whole industry into the light. There's still problems to address, but it's a damn sight better than prohibition. That failed with alcohol. It's failing with drugs. It's failed with prostitution.

A neat TEDTalk from a sex worker, if anyone is interested on an inside perspective of this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc-n852sv3Ehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc-n852sv3E

There's others out there too, some aimed at the anti-sex work feminists(who are also part of the problem, not just Trump as much as I criticize him) too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi_OwpNndo8

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'd like to point out that this is definitely a double entendre considering the thread topic.

Originally posted by Robtard
There's such a broad aspect of prostitution and the levels of danger and stress it can bring. The high-end call girl who is having a few dates a month because her executive clients pay her $5,000.00 a night to have dinner and then f--k in a 5-star hotel isn't comparable to the sex-worker who is blowing guys in their cars for $20.00 a pop and is far more at risk from STDs and a nutjob looking to hurt a woman.


Prostitution should be legal though and it should be regulated. I personally like the idea of the sex houses like the Bunny Ranch in Nevada. The women are tested regularly, they're required to use condoms, they're in a safe environment, they have list of what they will and won't do so there's no confusion from the client's expectation, the clients are known (show ID) so they're far less likely to attack or act a fool etc.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I don't think it's particularly emotionally healthy for either person involved, I think it's a very risky and dangerous line of work, I don't think it is a moral good to reduce people to sexual objects, and I don't think it's good for the culture of civilization to undermine the institution of monogamy.
Do you think our cultural attitudes towards sex might play into that though? It's entirely possible to acknowledge someone's humanity and still desire/engage in casual/transactional sex with them. I think reducing someone to only a sex object comes from stigmatizing the occupation so deeply that society only sees the workers in that manner.

I like your outlook overall though, as again, I think treating folks like people prevents most of this. I disagree on the monogamy thing, but that's for another thread. You're a Jordan Peterson fan I take it?
Originally posted by Beniboybling
There are strong connections between prositution and mental health issues, substance abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, and exploitation, which makes me hesitant to support its legalisation, and I don't think it should be encouraged. Better to decriminalise it for the women involved and put money into schemes helping women to get more rewarding and less harmful jobs.
Forgot to say this earlier. I do agree that combating economic uncertainty is likely the largest tool against undesirable labor. I'd be curious how universal basic income might impact an industry like this.

Originally posted by StyleTime
How much of this comes from it being illegal though?

Decriminilazing it for the worker means they avoid arrest, but still face all the same problems unfortunately. The clients, out of fear of punishment, will go underground, which means the workers must follow.

If you mean the New Zealand style of decriminalization, then I'm mostly in agreement though. It's functionally the same as legalizing it, and it hasn't turned into the nightmare scenario some folks have of every kid growing up dreaming about being a prostitute. It's equated to more safety and agency for the ones involved though, as reported by the workers themselves. Interestingly, male sex workers here are more likely to have money stolen than women. I wonder what causes that?
https://www.otago.ac.nz/christchurch/otago018607.pdf

While this was just Nevada, 84% of workers report feeling safe at work. There's no evidence of sex trafficking either. They have security and policemen ready and willing to help them because they aren't be treated like criminal sub-humans.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/04/19/is-legalized-prostitution-safer/nevadas-legal-brothels-make-workers-feel-safer

I'm open to other arguments, but I really see no other option being superior to full blown legalization. The only way to eliminate the shadows is to bring this whole industry into the light. There's still problems to address, but it's a damn sight better than prohibition. That failed with alcohol. It's failing with drugs. It's failed with prostitution.

A neat TEDTalk from a sex worker, if anyone is interested on an inside perspective of this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc-n852sv3Ehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc-n852sv3E

There's others out there too, some aimed at the anti-sex work feminists(who are also part of the problem, not just Trump as much as I criticize him) too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi_OwpNndo8 I would say to a significant degree its intrinsic to prositution itself. Multiple studies have shown that pervasive drug abuse among prostitutes is a result of a need to cope with the physical and mental challenges of the job, selling your body as a product exposes you to sexual violence and debasement and can create self-esteem issues and distress, all of which conflates to worsened mental health - its possible for these problems can be improved by legalisation but they can't eradicated.

More than that, few women enter into prostitution willingly, they do it because of financial issues, mental health issues, as a result of dysfunctional families, homelessness, or indeed have already developed a substance abuse problem already - they are in short, quite often victims in need of support, and becoming a prostitute serves to worsen their condition, even if it provides them with economic means.

The war on drugs have been successfully tackled in other countries through a therapeutic approach, i.e. decriminalising class a substances and treating addicts, not by legalising it wholesale and teaching people safe practice. There is no safe practice when it comes to taking heroin, cocaine etc. and the end goal was to get people off these substances. If prostitution is decriminalised or legalised I think it has to come with health and support services that help women get out of the industry, rather than simply permissing its perpetuation as "just another job."

Originally posted by StyleTime
Do you think our cultural attitudes towards sex might play into that though? It's entirely possible to acknowledge someone's humanity and still desire/engage in casual/transactional sex with them. I think reducing someone to only a sex object comes from stigmatizing the occupation so deeply that society only sees the workers in that manner.

I like your outlook overall though, as again, I think treating folks like people prevents most of this. I disagree on the monogamy thing, but that's for another thread. You're a Jordan Peterson fan I take it?
Gaming right now so I can't get too much into this, but yes I am a huge Jordan Peterson fan, but that position was also one I held before I even knew he existed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I would say to a significant degree its intrinsic to prositution itself. Multiple studies have shown that pervasive drug abuse among prostitutes is a result of a need to cope with the physical and mental challenges of the job, selling your body as a product exposes you to sexual violence and debasement and can create self-esteem issues and distress, all of which conflates to worsened mental health - its possible for these problems can be improved by legalisation but they can't eradicated.

More than that, few women enter into prostitution willingly, they do it because of financial issues, mental health issues, as a result of dysfunctional families, homelessness, or indeed have already developed a substance abuse problem already - they are in short, quite often victims in need of support, and becoming a prostitute serves to worsen their condition, even if it provides them with economic means.

The war on drugs have been successfully tackled in other countries through a therapeutic approach, i.e. decriminalising class a substances and treating addicts, not by legalising it wholesale and teaching people safe practice. There is no safe practice when it comes to taking heroin, cocaine etc. and the end goal was to get people off these substances. If prostitution is decriminalised or legalised I think it has to come with health and support services that help women get out of the industry, rather than simply permissing its perpetuation as "just another job."
Sure, but most addicts were addicts before they began sex work. There isn't much data, as prostitution is illegal in most places, but studies do show that only 13% of indoor (brothel, escort agency,etc) worker have drug problems. Compare that to 84% for street workers, and it hints that conditions stemming from illegality are the cause.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100712095244/http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs04/hors268.pdf

True, and I agree fighting economic problems should be a priority. The "worsened condition" is again, from illegality and stigma. Some people do actually choose this job.

I probably shouldn't add to this, since it's outside the topic of the thread. I think it's more accurate to say that things are improved with the liberalization of drug laws though, not fixed. I see no reason why things wouldn't continue to get better though, with full governmental oversight, proper education as to use, regulated commercial distribution as with alchohol/tobacco/caffeine/coldmedicine/EveryOtherDrugWe'reFineWithHavingInStores/etc. The less we prohibit these things, the better the results, as Portugal has shown. Why would that progress suddenly stop at the point of legalization? It'd certainly curb the violence associated with it.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
There is no safe practice when it comes to taking heroin, cocaine etc.
That depends on what you mean by "safe." If you mean "safe", as in "I can expect to have fun tonight, go to sleep, and wake up tomorrow for work feeling fine", then yeah, there are actually safe amounts of these you can do. People, from burnouts to professionals, do it all the time. Anecdotally, I've tried coke a few times. It's not really for me, but I know some recreational users who all have well paying 9-5's any parent would be proud of.

If you mean "safe" as in "as healthy for my body as an apple," then no. But then again, neither is half the shit we eat regularly, cigarettes, or alcohol...
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Gaming right now so I can't get too much into this, but yes I am a huge Jordan Peterson fan, but that position was also one I held before I even knew he existed.
Cool. I was just curious. He's a smart dude, even if I'm not on board with much of what he says.

I think things would get worse if heroin were legalized tbh. I don't think anything good would come from legalizing any of those drugs tbh besides weed.

Heroin and meth being freely available to the public would be hilarious though. Imagine Tom Turtleneck walking into the store to buy some tomatoes and he comes out with a little bit of heroin. It might stow the violence but holy shit would it ruin everything else. Why is everyone on the block snowblowing their grass or sleeping on their driveway couches?

Originally posted by One Big Mob
I think things would get worse if heroin were legalized tbh. I don't think anything good would come from legalizing any of those drugs tbh besides weed.
Psychedelics.

Taking LSD genuinely made me a better person and gave me the three best days of my life. And if you look them up you can find story after story of other people who had similar experiences.

If you look at the research on them, they aren't chemically addictive, psychological dependency isn't common, in fact they're actually rather effective at treating addiction to other things like smoking.

Originally posted by Emperordmb I don't think it's particularly emotionally healthy for either person involved, I think it's a very risky and dangerous line of work

Morality isn't about your own emotional health lal. Suicide is bad, but it's not immoral. Morality is about the obligations you have to others. What obligation is being violated by prostitute?

No, morality is about a person/group's beliefs in regards to right and wrong.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Morality isn't about your own emotional health lal. Suicide is bad, but it's not immoral. Morality is about the obligations you have to others.
I disagree, I think people do have a moral responsibility to their own well being.

If I have a bad work ethic when it comes to my education, which I do, and that generates consequences for me, then I think I have done something immoral.

And even if you disagree I still think it's obvious that self-harm should be discouraged. There's an entire industry/movement/idfk around discouraging suicide and self-harm.

I think prostitution and most drugs should be legalized. People should be allowed to do as they wish to their own body.

Originally posted by BackFire
I think prostitution and most drugs should be legalized. People should be allowed to do as they wish to their own body.
I agree. There is an obvious difference though between what is right and what someone should be allowed to do.

Originally posted by Silent Master
No, morality is about a person/group's beliefs in regards to right and wrong.

That's right.

Even so called "moral relativism" is a moral decision: Someone is saying they believe imposing on another culture is worse then protecting one from, say, rape or murder (By the wests standards).

Following a moral code without exception, even if an exception causes someone else harm or suffering, is itself a moral decision.

For the record, I have a very specific example in mind.

On another forum, there was a poster named Jaybird. Jaybird LOVED to argue. He'd argue for pages and pages about the immorality of the Supreme Court outlawing, say, the private growing of wheat.

Usually I agreed with his positions. This one time, I did not. It involved a child with curable cancer, and parents who refused to allow treatment for some reason (I forget the reason, but it is unimportant. It could be religious, perhaps?)

Most people on that particular forum wanted the government to intervene. I include myself among that number. Jaybird argued this would be a slippery slope. He argued it would be government overreach. He essentially argued if the government can force parents to help a child for a good reason, they could force parents to "help" for nefarious reasons. He argued "think about the children!" is a common means to do this.


Looking back, I can't say he was wrong. Technically.

But I still believe in this case, intervention is necessary to save that child. I can't bring myself to sacrifice a person, on a fear that something worse can come of it.

That was my moral choice. And Jaybirds was to protect yourself, and your society, at any cost. Even if it results in a child with easily curable cancer dying.


I absolutely do respect his decision, and can see why he believe as he did (I also believe, from his constant hawkish position on Israel, that he was Jewish, and possbly knows a thing or two about slippery slopes leading to government sanctioned attrocity.)

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I agree. There is an obvious difference though between what is right and what someone should be allowed to do.

In this case I think they are mostly in line with one another. I don't think drug use or prostitution is morally wrong. But you know, morals will vary from person to person.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
I think things would get worse if heroin were legalized tbh . . . Imagine Tom Turtleneck walking into the store to buy some tomatoes and he comes out with a little bit of heroin. It might stow the violence but holy shit would it ruin everything else. Why is everyone on the block snowblowing their grass or sleeping on their driveway couches?

Opium was widely available in over the counter medicines through the Victorian era, and we are still here.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I disagree, I think people do have a moral responsibility to their own well being.

If I have a bad work ethic when it comes to my education, which I do, and that generates consequences for me, then I think I have done something immoral.

And even if you disagree I still think it's obvious that self-harm should be discouraged. There's an entire industry/movement/idfk around discouraging suicide and self-harm.

That is not a moral dilemma, it is egoism.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Opium was widely available in over the counter medicines through the Victorian era, and we are still here. Heroin is a lot more potent and is even more addictive. Look at all the people who can't handle their morphine; imagine just as many people or more get heroin just because they can "safely" try it.

I'm not saying it would kill everyone but it would be a noticable effect on society. Almost worth it just to see how long it takes to become a big deal.

If they made it Legal all those problems would go away.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
That is not a moral dilemma, it is egoism.
Except I don't view self-interest as the root of morality. Fundamentally I believe in the inherent worth of every person and morality is the system of upholding that worth. That includes not harming other people and in fact having a responsibility to help them and be a good person, but also to recognize yourself as a person with the same value as everyone else and that you are someone you are in fact responsible for helping.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Heroin is a lot more potent and is even more addictive. Look at all the people who can't handle their morphine; imagine just as many people or more get heroin just because they can "safely" try it.

I'm not saying it would kill everyone but it would be a noticable effect on society. Almost worth it just to see how long it takes to become a big deal.
Doubtful. About 23% of heroine users develop opiate addiction. If you include binge drinking, the number of heavy alcohol users is the same.
https://www.asam.org/docs/default-source/advocacy/opioid-addiction-disease-facts-figures.pdf
https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics

Sounds like a lot, but flip that number around. ~75% of folks doing heroine aren't addicted. They do it, party a little bit, then get the hell on with their lives. What we need is drug education during health class, just like we have for alcohol. Heroine use is on the rise in all economic classes, most age groups, and genders. https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/heroin.html

This, unsurprisingly, coincides with increased overdoses because these same folks have no clue what they're doing. People know not to drink and drive, and the effects alcohol has on your body. It's also much easier to find out what a safe amount of alcohol to consume is. If someone got curious about heroine, they'd be limited to bro science. There is no common knowledge they can draw from as to safe use.

That said, addiction is a problem. I definitely want folks suffering from addiction to have access to rehabilitative services. Current science points to a genetic component to addiction, and I don't think it's fair for folks to suffer if they can't control themselves. I just think we can still accomplish that with it being legal, rather than locking folks up. Alcoholics seek help at an overwhelmingly larger rate than any other substance abusers because we don't push them to the dregs of society for their illness.

Sure, maybe the world burns down under my rule, but what we're currently doing isn't working. Why not try the other option?
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Psychedelics.

Taking LSD genuinely made me a better person and gave me the three best days of my life. And if you look them up you can find story after story of other people who had similar experiences.

If you look at the research on them, they aren't chemically addictive, psychological dependency isn't common, in fact they're actually rather effective at treating addiction to other things like smoking.


The potential for psychedelics to treat depression, anxiety, PTSD, is becoming more and more apparent, but we're still stuck in this drug war that jams up research. It's a shame people might be deprived of their positive benefits because we, as a society, derped.

Also, 3 days? Did you take a hit each morning after waking up? I've only done acid once, but I loved the experience.

Psilocybin mushrooms are a great alternative though. Similar feeling, but you don't need to clear out your whole day like LSD lol.

Originally posted by StyleTime


The potential for psychedelics to treat depression, anxiety, PTSD, is becoming more and more apparent, but we're still stuck in this drug war that jams up research. It's a shame people might be deprived of their positive benefits because we, as a society, derped.

Also, 3 days? Did you take a hit each morning after waking up? I've only done acid once, but I loved the experience.

Psilocybin mushrooms are a great alternative though. Similar feeling, but you don't need to clear out your whole day like LSD lol.
No I meant I did them on three separate days, and each day was one of the best days of my life. I also did it a fourth time and had to confront my greatest fear and that was kinda freaky. I had philosophical revelations from each one that helped me become a better person.

And I've tried psilocybin before.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
No I meant I did them on three separate days, and each day was one of the best days of my life. I also did it a fourth time and had to confront my greatest fear and that was kinda freaky. I had philosophical revelations from each one that helped me become a better person.

And I've tried psilocybin before.
Cool. I've heard it having that effect for certain people. Psychedelics are never profoundly revelatory for me. It's always a much more whimsical and delightfully meaningless experience when I do it. More vivid colors, happier mood, the breeze feels ****ing incredible, everything is hilarious, etc.

Play Mario on it, preferably coop with friends. It's the bees knees. Depending on how much you ate, you may not accomplish much, but hot damn if it isn't fun as hell.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Cool. I've heard it having that effect for certain people. Psychedelics are never profoundly revelatory for me. It's always a much more whimsical and delightfully meaningless experience when I do it. More vivid colors, happier mood, the breeze feels ****ing incredible, everything is hilarious, etc.
Oh yeah I mean that's basically how it is for me most of the time, but it's on the come down when my brain's starting to process everything that I'll end up seeing the sunset which usually triggers some inspiration within me that leads to the revelations.

Ironically doing LSD made my best friend an atheist and gave me more reason to be a Christian.

I've never done any drugs, am I cool enough to hang out here?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Oh yeah I mean that's basically how it is for me most of the time, but it's on the come down when my brain's starting to process everything that I'll end up seeing the sunset which usually triggers some inspiration within me that leads to the revelations.

Ironically doing LSD made my best friend an atheist and gave me more reason to be a Christian.
Yeah, I've got a converted-to-Christianity-post-LSD friend, although he was already leaning in that direction beforehand.

I think the worse thing that ever happened to me was after using the bathroom. I looked in the mirror and got really insecure for a couple of seconds...then the patterns in the shower curtains took my attention away until I went to play video games with friends.

I'm a little jelly tbh. I just don't think I'm wired for life-changing visions and such. I immediately turn into this after the come up.

https://i.gifer.com/JIaw.gif

Even during the come down, I'm like

https://media.giphy.com/media/l3vR7aXoQX0OdHi48/source.gif

Also, tripping in a park rules. Have to fight the urge to go play with the kids on the playground though...
Originally posted by BackFire
I've never done any drugs, am I cool enough to hang out here?
It's cool. You've drugged others, yes?

Originally posted by StyleTime
Cool. I've heard it having that effect for certain people. Psychedelics are never profoundly revelatory for me. It's always a much more whimsical and delightfully meaningless experience when I do it. More vivid colors, happier mood, the breeze feels ****ing incredible, everything is hilarious, etc.

Play Mario on it, preferably coop with friends. It's the bees knees. Depending on how much you ate, you may not accomplish much, but hot damn if it isn't fun as hell.


Same, although we largely played Goldeneye on the N64, watched crazy British sitcoms and drank Mad Dog.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Also, tripping in a park rules. Have to fight the urge to go play with the kids on the playground though...


This is fun too, the kids are avoidable if you go around midnight though.

True. Then you miss out on the sunlight and colors and stuff though.

And all the frolicking with your friends. We go full blown The Sound of Music.

https://s15.postimg.cc/vwc1t7e3v/giphy.gif

I'm from the north of England though, I wish we had days like that. Then I probably go tripping in a park, just do it when the kids are in school