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So what does everyone think about this...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/24/politics/justice-department-illegal-aliens-undocumented/index.html


I myself am kind of torn. On the one hand I think the way people are trying to alter established terms manipulate our language to use terms like "undocumented immigrant" stupid, on the other hand I'm a big proponent of free speech. I mean I realize that no one's free speech is actually being threatened here because the rule only applies in an official capacity, but I'm wary of ANY efforts by the government to take control of the way people speak. I can't think of a way this particular restriction could set a precedent that eventually infringes on the rights of a private citizen but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

Anyway, does anyone else want to throw in their two cents on the matter?

"Undocumented immigrant" was coined to more humanize these people, make Americans view them more as people than as pest.

Trump is not liking that, so he's having shitty Jeff Sessions undo it as it's easier for people to not care about "illegal aliens" being abused than it is "undocumented immigrants". It's a marketing thing.

Originally posted by Robtard
"Undocumented immigrant" was coined to more humanize these people, make Americans view them more as people than as pest.

Trump is not liking that, so he's having shitty Jeff Sessions undo it as it's easier for people to not care about "illegal aliens" being abused than it is "undocumented immigrants". It's a marketing thing.
I don't really see how the term "illegal alien" actually dehumanizes them. I mean "Illegal" simply notes their legal status and "Alien" simply notes that they are foreign. I can totally understand people pushing back against the term "undocumented immigrant" given a lot of people's claims nowadays that there's no such thing as an illegal person because it's factually inaccurate.

That's really your own shortcoming though.

I call them 'Illegal Immigrants'.

Originally posted by Robtard
That's really your own shortcoming though.

I call them 'Illegal Immigrants'.
What's a shortcoming? I just don't understand how an accurate description dehumanizes someone. Nothing about the term illegal alien suggested that they are less than human, simply that they're from a foreign land and here illegally.

Originally posted by darthgoober
What's a shortcoming? I just don't understand how an accurate description dehumanizes someone. Nothing about the term illegal alien suggested that they are less than human, simply that they're from a foreign land and here illegally.
The vast majority of people hear "alien" and picture one of these.

https://s22.postimg.cc/ioi1uu8qp/Alien_vs._Predator_2004_-_Alien.jpg

https://s22.postimg.cc/v34tv5sj5/590147780-612x612.jpg

https://s22.postimg.cc/rwaabjnip/ET-alien-movies.jpg

Illegal alien, undocumented Alien, etc

All accurate

Originally posted by darthgoober
What's a shortcoming? I just don't understand how an accurate description dehumanizes someone. Nothing about the term illegal alien suggested that they are less than human, simply that they're from a foreign land and here illegally.

By all means say and use "illegal alien", I'm not stopping you.

I prefer and use "Illegal Immigrant" or "Undocumented Immigrant", I don't care about the Trump admin's feelings.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So what does everyone think about this...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/24/politics/justice-department-illegal-aliens-undocumented/index.html


I myself am kind of torn. On the one hand I think the way people are trying to alter established terms manipulate our language to use terms like "undocumented immigrant" stupid, on the other hand I'm a big proponent of free speech. I mean I realize that no one's free speech is actually being threatened here because the rule only applies in an official capacity, but I'm wary of ANY efforts by the government to take control of the way people speak. I can't think of a way this particular restriction could set a precedent that eventually infringes on the rights of a private citizen but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

Anyway, does anyone else want to throw in their two cents on the matter?

I too am all for free speech. But lets take a step back. I imagine this is not the first time a phrase has been banned in this way. I imagine it's been going on for a while. So when did it start? When will it end? If this phrase should be allowed, what about the other ones barred, if they exist? If we come at it from a free speech angle, nothing would be allowed to be barred.

Originally posted by Robtard
By all means say and use "illegal alien", I'm not stopping you.

I prefer and use "Illegal Immigrant" or "Undocumented Immigrant", I don't care about the Trump admin's feelings.
Yes but "immigrant" isn't always accurate. An immigrant is someone who takes up permanent residence. I prefer "Alien" to "immigrant" because it's accurate 100% of the time, whether legal or illegal.

Originally posted by Surtur
I too am all for free speech. But lets take a step back. I imagine this is not the first time a phrase has been banned in this way. I imagine it's been going on for a while. So when did it start? When will it end? If this phrase should be allowed, what about the other ones barred, if they exist? If we come at it from a free speech angle, nothing would be allowed to be barred.
I know, as I said I can't think of a way this could spiral out of control because it's limited to being barred in an official capacity. I just get paranoid easily when it comes to the 1st amendment. I actually created the thread in the hopes that my paranoia would be dispelled.

I personally am not worried about Trump truly encroaching on actual 1st amendment rights. If only because the conservatives have embraced free speech more than ever before in the face of what the left is doing. Trump might spew rhetoric, but I don't think he'd actually do anything to mess that up.

They are using it in a way that is getting people on their side.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but "immigrant" isn't always accurate. An immigrant is someone who takes up permanent residence. I prefer "Alien" to "immigrant" because it's accurate 100% of the time, whether legal or illegal.

Meh, you're kinda being pedantic at this point.

Originally posted by Robtard
Meh, you're kinda being pedantic at this point.
No doubt there, I'm freaking picky when it comes to descriptions.

Originally posted by Surtur
I personally am not worried about Trump truly encroaching on actual 1st amendment rights. If only because the conservatives have embraced free speech more than ever before in the face of what the left is doing. Trump might spew rhetoric, but I don't think he'd actually do anything to mess that up.

They are using it in a way that is getting people on their side.
Yeah but I'm paranoid because I think beyond Trump. I support the second amendment for the same reason. I don't think any current American politician is a tyrant in the making, but I think it's a mistake to make things easier for a potential tyrant in the unknown future. Precedents that we set today for our benefit always have the potential of being used against us tomorrow.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So what does everyone think about this...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/24/politics/justice-department-illegal-aliens-undocumented/index.html


I myself am kind of torn. On the one hand I think the way people are trying to alter established terms manipulate our language to use terms like "undocumented immigrant" stupid, on the other hand I'm a big proponent of free speech. I mean I realize that no one's free speech is actually being threatened here because the rule only applies in an official capacity, but I'm wary of ANY efforts by the government to take control of the way people speak. I can't think of a way this particular restriction could set a precedent that eventually infringes on the rights of a private citizen but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

Anyway, does anyone else want to throw in their two cents on the matter?

I'm not for this at all, but I have to ask:

If the Obama administration initially ordered everyone use "Undocumented Immigrant" and avoid "Illegal Alien"?

Because whatever side you fall on, they totally should report that stuff even handedly. I'm not so sure they do, if it would damage "their" party..

Did the Obama admin try and bar "illegal alien" from its government use? I honestly don't recall.

For all the 'pro illegal immigrant' Obama gets slapped onto him and much of it true, his policies/enforcing current laws deported more than 2.4million people, almost the same as Bush and Clinton combined.

Originally posted by cdtm
I'm not for this at all, but I have to ask:

If the Obama administration initially ordered everyone use "Undocumented Immigrant" and avoid "Illegal Alien"?

Because whatever side you fall on, they totally should report that stuff even handedly. I'm not so sure they do, if it would damage "their" party..
I wouldn't absolutely be against Obama passing that kind of thing, even more than the current ruling on it. Mostly because as I said earlier "immigrant" isn't always and accurate descriptor.

Originally posted by Robtard
Did the Obama admin try and bar "illegal alien" from its government use? I honestly don't recall.

For all the 'pro illegal immigrant' Obama gets slapped onto him and much of it true, his policies/enforcing current laws deported more than 2.4million people, almost the same as Bush and Clinton combined.
No he didn't. Obama redefined deportation to include people turned away at the border. That's why his "deportation" numbers are so high.

Fair enough then.

Honestly illegal immigrant seems like easily the most accurate term. Because illegal is more specific than undocumented, it is a breach of the nations laws. Immigrant describes what they're actually doing and describing someone as an alien just sounds ****ing weird.

"Undocumented" is a blatant manipulation of language though, but i don't agree with censoring lawyers

https://78.media.tumblr.com/96cf117265034ff75e85620447eb9fe4/tumblr_mhihkw4Dyb1s3dkxco2_400.gif

Why was this even a point of contention? I mean as long as people know what they are referring to, who cares what they are called?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Honestly illegal immigrant seems like easily the most accurate term. Because illegal is more specific than undocumented, it is a breach of the nations laws. Immigrant describes what they're actually doing and describing someone as an alien just sounds ****ing weird.

"Undocumented" is a blatant manipulation of language though, but i don't agree with censoring lawyers

Look at that, we agree.

Originally posted by Robtard
^ What a retard

I actually know a few illegals and helped them.

So save it pussy 😂😂

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
I actually know a few illegals and helped them.

So save it pussy 😂😂

Originally posted by Robtard
^ What a retard

👆👆 p p p pussy 😂😂

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Honestly illegal immigrant seems like easily the most accurate term. Because illegal is more specific than undocumented, it is a breach of the nations laws. Immigrant describes what they're actually doing and describing someone as an alien just sounds ****ing weird.

"Undocumented" is a blatant manipulation of language though, but i don't agree with censoring lawyers

Illegal is incorrect, because not every person who enters the country without a visa is here illegally. That is why they are undocumented, i.e. without documents. For example, if a refugee crosses the border, but does not have a visa, by international law recognized by the United States, he is not here illegally.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Illegal is incorrect, because not every person who enters the country without a visa is here illegally. That is why they are undocumented, i.e. without documents. For example, if a refugee crosses the border, but does not have a visa, by international law recognized by the United States, he is not here illegally.
So refer to refugees that way but if somebody crosses the border legally then they are an illegal immigrant plain and simple. I'm not going to water down my language in order to help someone else advance a political agenda.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
So refer to refugees that way but if somebody crosses the border legally then they are an illegal immigrant plain and simple. I'm not going to water down my language in order to help someone else advance a political agenda.

Wait, that doesn't make sense. You mean if they cross the border illegally, then they are illegal immigrants yes?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but I'm paranoid because I think beyond Trump. I support the second amendment for the same reason. I don't think any current American politician is a tyrant in the making, but I think it's a mistake to make things easier for a potential tyrant in the unknown future. Precedents that we set today for our benefit always have the potential of being used against us tomorrow.

Actually this is a good point. If Dems do well in the midterms and then win the presidency in 2020...your 1st amendment fears might be well founded.

Cuz think about it. At the present time, which side does more to clamp down on free speech?

Leftists are applauding Alex Jones being booted off a variety of services. I saw some leftist on MSNBC advocating for the total shutdown of Facebook until they can fix the problem of "fake news and propaganda". Or at the very least until mid terms are over. I'm not kidding lol.

A democrat saw the Alex Jones thing and didn't think to himself "while Alex Jones is a piece of shit, this is sort of a disturbing thing that could become a trend". He thought: we can do better, we need to ban even more places.

Sen. Chris Murphy Criticized For Demanding Tech Companies To Ban Other Sites Besides InfoWars

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Wait, that doesn't make sense. You mean if they cross the border illegally, then they are illegal immigrants yes?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
So refer to refugees that way but if somebody crosses the border legally then they are an illegal immigrant plain and simple. I'm not going to water down my language in order to help someone else advance a political agenda.

Whether someone who is undocumented is here illegally is a determination for a judge. It is not prima facie the case. In referring to all undocumented people as illegal you are putting the cart before the horse.

Yes. It is Only a Crime if you get Caught and Convicted.

Lefty Logic is Truly Loony!

So, what does it mean exactly?

Well, I see trump's tryna imitate that thing from Canada we shouldn't imitate.

I mean I didn't like it when Canada was pushing compelled speech on lawyers, so I'll hold the same principle here.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Honestly illegal immigrant seems like easily the most accurate term. Because illegal is more specific than undocumented, it is a breach of the nations laws. Immigrant describes what they're actually doing and describing someone as an alien just sounds ****ing weird.

"Undocumented" is a blatant manipulation of language though, but i don't agree with censoring lawyers
Yeah, language censorship is still language censorship.

Yeah... I made it quite clear I don't disagree with you there.