Darth Vader #19 - The story of Eeth Koth comes to an end

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Galan007
Darth Vader (1/2):
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124797_Darth_Vader_019-002.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124798_Darth_Vader_019-003.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124799_Darth_Vader_019-004.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124800_Darth_Vader_019-005.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124801_Darth_Vader_019-006.jpg

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124802_Darth_Vader_019-007.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124803_Darth_Vader_019-008.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124804_Darth_Vader_019-009.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124805_Darth_Vader_019-010.jpg

Galan007
Darth Vader (2/2):
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124806_Darth_Vader_019-011.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124807_Darth_Vader_019-012.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124808_Darth_Vader_019-013.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124809_Darth_Vader_019-014.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124810_Darth_Vader_019-015.jpg

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124811_Darth_Vader_019-016.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124812_Darth_Vader_019-017.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124813_Darth_Vader_019-018.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124814_Darth_Vader_019-019.jpg

Galan007
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39124811_Darth_Vader_019-016.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/YBnl8DR.jpg

Translations:
-Yoda
-Obi-Wan Kenobi
-Coleman Kcaj
-Oppo Rancisis
-Selrahc Eluos (Charles Soule backwards)
-Ka-Moon-Kholi (not sure if this is an accurate translation, as the text is hard to see.)

Zenwolf
So...I mean I get the whole hiding thing, but this "Jedi turning against other Jedi or succumbing to their anger/fear whatever" is something I hope isn't gonna be the norm. Koth was gonna tell Vader where other Jedi were...that one Jedi Master who's name I can't remember let cities/people get destroyed...

Total Warrior
Oh oppo and Coleman are still alive. Good. Well there are a lot of powerful Jedi still around: Yoda, Obi Wan, Quinlan vos, Koth, Rancisis, Kcaj etc considering that Inquisitors are fodder, VAder is no where close to full-power, I guess that if they teamed up together they could possibly take out the emperor and vader

Total Warrior
Yoda/Vos vs Palpatine
Kenobi va Vader
The rest vs Inquisitors

The could take it

ares834
Too edgy for me.

carthage
Very dark
he way the Inquisitor stole the Jedi

Also Poor Koth never stood a chance, and was very clearly desperate to keep his family alive. I can get his motivations

TheIndyJedi
Quinlan Vos better run

TheIndyJedi
Originally posted by carthage
Very dark
he way the Inquisitor stole the Jedi

Also Poor Koth never stood a chance, and was very clearly desperate to keep his family alive. I can get his motivations
Can Darth Bane beat Koth??

victreebelvictr
yes, i believe he can. he is over vader's level, my guess, though he is slightly under darth tenebrous

TheIndyJedi
Originally posted by victreebelvictr
yes, i believe he can. he is over vader's level, my guess, though he is slightly under darth tenebrous
My comment was meant to be a joke, as the guy above despises Bane

Selenial
Not a bad issue to be honest. I like the dark tone.

How are people interpreting the duel? Was Vader keeping him alive until his family were caught? If not, an out of shape, out of practice and emotionally tilted Koth held up pretty well. On the backfoot, sure, but that was a long duel, time wise.

Galan007
I mean, Vader did state that the emotions Koth was feeling during their battle made him considerably more powerful than he ever was(or would have been) as a Jedi.

That said, Vader still dominated him.

juggernaut74
So did this issue confirm Vader outranks Tarkin?

Or was that already established?

Galan007
Vader only 'outranked' Tarkin before he was a Grand Moff... But even when Vader did 'outrank' him, Palpatine made it clear that Tarkin was still beyond his retribution/jurisdiction:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39127442_Darth_Vader_2017-_012-015.jpg


But in the recent Annual, Palpatine himself reestablishes the fact that Grand Moff Tarkin most definitely outranked Vader:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39127438_Darth_Vader_2017-_002_-_Annual-006.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39127439_Darth_Vader_2017-_002_-_Annual-007.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39127440_Darth_Vader_2017-_002_-_Annual-008.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39127441_Darth_Vader_2017-_002_-_Annual-009.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6zkf4D6.jpg

*This fact is also corroborated by numerous other sources, btw.

carthage

victreebelvictr
Originally posted by TheIndyJedi
My comment was meant to be a joke, as the guy above despises Bane
Sorry couldn't sense sarcasm if it slapped me in the face

Underachiever59
It's worth noting that Eeth Koth landed at least two or three glancing blows or near hits on Darth Vader in this fight. In one panel, we see Eeth Koth striking Vader's helmet (though the attack leaves no visible damage, we can clearly see that the helmet was struck on the 8th page that was posted). Also, at the end of the fight, we can see that Vader's right arm and the cloak over his left leg are both rather tattered, showing that Koth landed either glancing strikes or near misses.

This is probably Koth's best showing, considering the only other lightsaber duel we've seen him in (that I recall) was against Grievous, in which he didn't fare all that well. Sure, Koth was certainly inferior here, but it doesn't appear it was by too much if he was able to land a few blows. And we know in canon that Vader>RotS Anakin, as the suit doesn't appear to hinder him in canon the way it did in Legends.

Selenial
Originally posted by Galan007
I mean, Vader did state that the emotions Koth was feeling during their battle made him considerably more powerful than he ever was(or would have been) as a Jedi.

That said, Vader still dominated him.

I suppose, but a Sith would say that. Even if this was Koth not fighting hindered mentally, it was him fighting out of practice.

Total Warrior

Galan007
Originally posted by Selenial
I suppose, but a Sith would say that. Even if this was Koth not fighting hindered mentally, it was him fighting out of practice. It didn't read like Vader monologuing to me, tbh... And considering that Koth fared better than anyone would have ever thought possible(dominated as he was), I'd say Vader's comment about his increased power was meant to be legit. /shrug

As for Koth being out of practice: I really don't think he was. Even if we assume he wasn't coming home from church every night and training, this issue is only set like 2 or so years after the events of RotS... That isn't nearly enough time for Koth's skillset to notably devolve, imo(again, this is supported by his performance against Vader himself.)

Originally posted by Total Warrior
Why was Koth even kicked out of the council? I don't remember it I do not believe a formal explanation was ever given for Koth's removal from the Council. One day, *poof*, Agen Kolar had just replaced him.

TheIndyJedi
Originally posted by Selenial
I suppose, but a Sith would say that. Even if this was Koth not fighting hindered mentally, it was him fighting out of practice.

Nothing in the comic suggests he was out of practice m8.
Thats like saying Yoda is out of practice because he is an old fart and all he does is just sit on a chair all day. When that clearly isn't the case.

Selenial

TheIndyJedi
2 years isn't that long. Ben Kenobi hadn't trained with a saber for more than 2 years, and look how easily he took out Darth Maul in Rebels.

victreebelvictr
true, maul stood no chance in that battle, for whatever reason.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Galan007
Vader only 'outranked' Tarkin before he was a Grand Moff... So how many years after the Empire was formed did this issue take place? Because it clearly stated Vader was 2nd only to the Emperor.

I have been slacking on my Star Wars lately.

victreebelvictr

Galan007
Originally posted by juggernaut74
So how many years after the Empire was formed did this issue take place? ~2 years after RotS(give or take.)

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Because it clearly stated Vader was 2nd only to the Emperor. I mean, the intro page doesn't necessarily have to be talking about rank... It could just as easily be referring to their literal power, given that it is simultaneously referencing the dynamic between Palpatine as the master, and Vader as the apprentice:
https://i.imgur.com/HGZBA06.jpg
/shrug

That said, this issue was set early enough that Vader probably still 'outranked' Tarkin at the time... But even when Vader was the 'superior' officer, Palpatine made it clear that Tarkin was still off-limits to him.

Regardless, when Tarkin attained Grand Moff status, multiple sources(including the most recent Annual of Vader's own series) explicitly confirm that Tarkin undoubtedly outranked Vader. Tarkin was THE top dog in the Empire -- second only to Sheev himself.

Galan007
Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Well, Tarkin didn't order around Vader to much fearing that he would lose his life. Tarkin didn't have any qualms giving Vader orders, actually. Remember, Palpatine himself gave Tarkin supremacy over Vader, and moreover, told Vader that Tarkin was essentially acting as an extension of himself:

https://i.imgur.com/6zkf4D6.jpg


Had Vader acted against Tarkin in any way/shape/form, he would have undoubtedly incurred Palpatine's wrath. Vader is many things, but he isn't stupid enough to openly defy his Master.

ares834
For that specific mission.

Anyway, the hierarchy still remains murky. The new Thrawn novel, for example, says Vader in numero two.

Galan007
Nah, check out the whole scene again. It's evident by Tarkin's dialogue that he outranks Vader across the board. Palpatine was just 'reminding' Vader of his subordinate position prior to sending him on that mission.

The hierarchy isn't murky at all, tbh. Numerous sources(I am only referencing Disney canon, mind you) explicitly state that Tarkin outranks Vader, and Vader outranks everyone else. IOW, Palpatine > Tarkin > Vader > ALL.


*And if you had only read the new Thrawn novel, you'd be inclined to think that Vader and Thrawn are the two highest commanding authorities in the entire Empire. The novel puts no real emphasis on the Empire's greater command superstructure, like its predecessor did. Fortunately, several other canon sources give us definitive clarification in that regard.

ares834
While Tarkin certainly outranks Vader that's merely at that time and does not preclude Vader returning to being the second highest ranked as mentioned in the Thrawn novel. By the time of ANH, it seems to have reverted once again.

victreebelvictr
Originally posted by Galan007
Tarkin didn't have any qualms giving Vader orders, actually. Remember, Palpatine himself gave Tarkin supremacy over Vader, and moreover, told Vader that Tarkin was essentially acting as an extension of himself:

https://i.imgur.com/6zkf4D6.jpg


Had Vader acted against Tarkin in any way/shape/form, he would have undoubtedly incurred Palpatine's wrath. Vader is many things, but he isn't stupid enough to openly defy his Master.
i was saying that vader has wanted to kill him at points, i remember how tarkin ordered around vader the same way snoke ordered around ren.

victreebelvictr
great post though galan, you are a good speaker.

Galan007
Originally posted by ares834
While Tarkin certainly outranks Vader that's merely at that time and does not preclude Vader returning to being the second highest ranked as mentioned in the Thrawn novel. By the time of ANH, it seems to have reverted once again. There is really no reason to think the status quo between Tarkin and Vader ebbed and flowed like that after the former obtained Grand Moff status -- no sources allude to this, and the aforementioned novel also isn't indicative of such, imo. As mentioned, the novel also implies that Thrawn was not only THE highest ranking officer in the Empire under Vader, but also THE single most important being in Empire. While the latter may have some truth to it due to Thrawn's knowledge of the Unknown Regions, the former definitely isn't true -- Rebels(and a few other guidebooks) makes it clear that Thrawn was very much subordinate to Tarkin, for example. And again, this novel doesn't really attempt to break down the Empire's greater command superstructure like the first novel did -- it focuses solely on Vader/Thrawn, and it doesn't really attempt to go outside that bubble.


At any rate, there are just WAY too many other canon sources which explicitly state that Tarkin outranked Vader(including a statement from Filoni himself), for me to think otherwise. /shrug

victreebelvictr
did tarkin have better strategics then thrawn. palpatine did put him higher then thrawn for a reason.

Galan007
Thrawn was a far better tactician than Tarkin.

Tarkin outranked Thrawn, however, for a few simple reasons:
a.) Palpatine had known Tarkin a LOT longer(they first met well before the events of TPM), and was responsible for fashioning him into the military/political figurehead he eventually became... Wilhuff was always in Palpatine's favor.
b.) Tarkin was already a Grand Moff when Thrawn first joined the Empire.

Rockydonovang
I respect the comic telling a new story regarding jedi rather than the millonth repitition of an old one.

That said, I don't really see the point in new vader comics. What part of his character hasn't already been explored?

Galan007
At this point I think the main purpose of the series is to show us the fates of the Jedi who survived the Purge -- that has been its central theme since day one. /shrug

What I do like about this series are the little tidbits that have been sprinkled here and there. ie. how Vader created his kyber crystal and lightsaber, how the Inquisitorius was formed, the numerous former Jedi that are part of the Inquisitorius, Luke finding Jocasta's Jedi archives in the future, lists of surviving Jedi, etc.

victreebelvictr
Originally posted by Galan007
Thrawn was a far better tactician than Tarkin.

Tarkin outranked Thrawn, however, for a few simple reasons:
a.) Palpatine had known Tarkin a LOT longer(they first met well before the events of TPM), and was responsible for fashioning him into the military/political figurehead he eventually became... Wilhuff was always in Palpatine's favor.
b.) Tarkin was already a Grand Moff when Thrawn first joined the Empire.
wasnt there also a law where aliens couldnt be really high rank, and the highest alien is thrawn, right behind vader.

victreebelvictr
did tarkin have more knowledge of ships or weaponry or something because that is what he focuses in.

victreebelvictr
my opinion of course.

Galan007
Originally posted by victreebelvictr
wasnt there also a law where aliens couldnt be really high rank, and the highest alien is thrawn, right behind vader. It wasn't a formal 'law', no. It was more of a generalized prejudice against non-humans that stemmed from Separatist alien factions during the Clone Wars.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
did tarkin have more knowledge of ships or weaponry or something because that is what he focuses in. Very doubtful, as Thrawn's knowledge of ships/weaponry also includes that which lies in the Unknown Regions.

Tarkin was a better politician, though. Thrawn never cared enough to try and be 'politically astute' -- he was a warrior.

victreebelvictr
Originally posted by Galan007
It wasn't a formal 'law', no. It was more of a generalized prejudice against non-humans that stemmed from Separatist alien factions during the Clone Wars.

Very doubtful, as Thrawn's knowledge of ships/weaponry also includes that which lies in the Unknown Regions.

Tarkin was a better politician, though. Thrawn never cared enough to try and be 'politically astute' -- he was a warrior. maybe that is why palpatine put him ahead, thank you, I learn much about the empire coming from you galan. I appreciate it.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.