Are there more than two Genders?

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MythLord
Several scientific studies seem to differentiate between the concept of sex and gender and whereas they are connected, they are not synonymous. So, are there more than two genders? Is it possible to be genderfluid? Are trans people valid, or just seeking attention?

Wanna see what the majority on here think about this.

Robtard
Gender is a social construction, so why not.

Sex, there's male and female generally speaking in the animal kingdom, barring a few exceptions.

eg This person (and many like her) was born physically a male, but through surgery and chemical therapy(after psychological evaluations), they've become female, to better fit the gender they identify with more closely.

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/news-img/maximum/6497.jpg

If some people want to argue she's still a man, despite how her psychological make-up works and what her body has gone through, they're probably retarded; at least on some level. Funny thing, must of the guys who would say she's a man wouldn't know she was born a male and would probably have sex with her never knowing.

If she used a men's restroom as she's supposed to according to these people, it would raise eyebrows.

Surtur
Originally posted by MythLord
Several scientific studies seem to differentiate between the concept of sex and gender and whereas they are connected, they are not synonymous. So, are there more than two genders? Is it possible to be genderfluid? Are trans people valid, or just seeking attention?

Wanna see what the majority on here think about this.

Wasn't there that study with monkeys that kinda showed gender wasn't a social construct?

As for your question, no. For people who say yes, I would like a firm number from them as to how many there are.

MythLord
Is that a no to all my questions, Surt?

StyleTime
Originally posted by Surtur
Wasn't there that study with monkeys that kinda showed gender wasn't a social construct?

As for your question, no. For people who say yes, I would like a firm number from them as to how many there are.
Sex =/= gender. It's hard to say how many genders exist because this is a relatively new realm of exploration.

Also, there's 3 biological sexes we know of in humans. Intersex, while rare, is a real biological reality.

Surtur
Well I don't think it's possible to be "gender fluid". For me there are 3 genders:

-male
-female
-mentally ill

Are trans "valid"? While I'm sure some do it for attention I think most are just mentally ill. Their suicide rate is far too high and they will blame that on how society treats them. I call bullshit on that excuse. I don't think even slaves had suicide rates that high.

An article you might find interesting:

https://qz.com/1190996/scientific-research-shows-gender-is-not-just-a-social-construct/

Flyattractor
Nope. Just 2. Being CONFUSED Is NOT a GENDER!!!!!!

Surtur
Originally posted by StyleTime
Sex =/= gender.

Also, there's 3 biological sexes. Intersex, while rare, is real biological reality.

People being born with a 6th finger are rare, but we certainly don't say people have 6 fingers.

Flyattractor
But Robbie get the Boner for the Trannies!!!!!!

So There Must be More then 2!!!!!!!

Surtur
Though for those saying yes there are more than 2 genders...I think it's only fair to ask them what the actual number is. One posted has suggested 3. I wonder how others who have said "yes" will answer.

StyleTime
Originally posted by Surtur
People being born with a 6th finger are rare, but we certainly don't say people have 6 fingers.
Right. We say people can be born with 6 fingers. We certainly still classify them as humans.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by StyleTime
Right. We say people can be born with 6 fingers. We certainly still classify them as humans.

Just because you use your fngers to Have Sex...It don't make your fingers their own genders.

Surtur
Originally posted by StyleTime
Right. We say people can be born with 6 fingers. We certainly still classify them as humans.

Fair enough. Also I made a mistake, you didn't say there were 3 genders, but 3 sexes.

How many genders do you think there are?

StyleTime
Originally posted by Flyattractor
Just because you use your fngers to Have Sex...It don't make your fingers their own genders.
You are correct sir. Lol. There is no finger gender that we know of.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Surtur
An article you might find interesting:

https://qz.com/1190996/scientific-research-shows-gender-is-not-just-a-social-construct/ Huh, its almost as if there's a nuance to this that has gone totally over your head. no expression

This study done by the Medical University of Vienna is also interesting:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150107082133.htm

As science catches up I expect it won't belong now before anti-trans groups begin to be perceived in a similar manner to the modern day climate change denier. Buriers of heads in the sand in the face of overwhelming evidence that threatens their distorted worldview. sad

Robtard
Originally posted by Surtur
Well I don't think it's possible to be "gender fluid". For me there are 3 genders:

-male
-female
-mentally ill

Are trans "valid"? While I'm sure some do it for attention I think most are just mentally ill. Their suicide rate is far too high and they will blame that on how society treats them. I call bullshit on that excuse. I don't think even slaves had suicide rates that high.

An article you might find interesting:

https://qz.com/1190996/scientific-research-shows-gender-is-not-just-a-social-construct/

"Mentally ill" isn't a gender unless you think schizophrenics, manic depressives, clinical depressives etc are an gender now?

Having that what, what is this person's gender/sex to you:

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/news-img/maximum/6497.jpg

Surtur
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Huh, its almost as if there's a nuance to this that has gone totally over your head. no expression

This study done by the Medical University of Vienna is also interesting:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150107082133.htm

As science catches up I expect it won't belong now before anti-trans groups begin to be perceived in a similar manner to the modern day climate change denier. Buriers of heads in the sand in the face of overwhelming evidence that threatens their distorted worldview. sad

Nah I saw it, in this PC age I fully expected such a disclaimer.

Anyways, since you think there are more than 2, what is the true number?

Flyattractor
Originally posted by StyleTime
You are correct sir. Lol. There is no finger gender.

Yes. There are No Finger Genders...But You can FINGER The Genders!


Wash you hands with soap afterwards.....I suggest using...

https://www.couponkatie.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Screen-Shot-2014-03-25-at-7.32.10-AM.png

Robtard
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Huh, its almost as if there's a nuance to this that has gone totally over your head. no expression

This study done by the Medical University of Vienna is also interesting:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150107082133.htm

As science catches up I expect it won't belong now before anti-trans groups begin to be perceived in a similar manner to the modern day climate change denier. Buriers of heads in the sand in the face of overwhelming evidence that threatens their distorted worldview. sad


These people have existed throughout history, they're the ones that hold progress back like dead-weight. eg At one point it was heresy to say that the Earth wasn't the center of the everything/universe and those people fought tooth and nail to keep that concept alive. Similar with flat-Earth beliefs iirc.

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
"Mentally ill" isn't a gender unless you think schizophrenics, manic depressives, clinical depressives etc are an gender now?

I hope this is you trolling.



What is the point of this question? You already told us the what the person was born as in your first post in this thread.

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
These people have existed throughout history, they're the ones that hold progress back like dead-weight. eg At one point it was heresy to say that the Earth wasn't the center of the everything/universe and those people fought tooth and nail to keep that concept alive. Similar with flat-Earth beliefs iirc.

I chuckled, top notch satire here.

BackFire
I think Laverne Cox is hot.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Robtard
These people have existed throughout history, they're the ones that hold progress back like dead-weight. eg At one point it was heresy to say that the Earth wasn't the center of the everything/universe and those people fought tooth and nail to keep that concept alive. Similar with flat-Earth beliefs iirc.


It is funny to see and watch the Left try to Rationalize and Justify a Mental Disorder in a way just so they can get votes.

Sad, Pathetic and just down right Disgusting.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by BackFire
I think Laverne Cox is hot.

Case in Point.

Surtur
If gender is a social construct why bother with any surgery?

Robtard
Originally posted by Surtur
I hope this is you trolling.



What is the point of this question? You already told us the what the person was born as in your first post in this thread.

You said "mentally ill" is a gender, sporto. I pointed out how faulty that is. eg Schizophrenia is not a gender.

I'm asking you how you would classify that person. Well?

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Surtur
Nah I saw it, in this PC age I fully expected such a disclaimer.

Anyways, since you think there are more than 2, what is the true number? "Science says I'm right unless it says I'm wrong then it's PC"

42 or 69, I can't decide. sad

BackFire
486

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
You said "mentally ill" is a gender, sporto.

I'm asking you how you would classify that person. Well?

...it was clearly a joke. Obviously mental illness isn't a gender.

And I'd classify that person as a man who has done an excellent job of making himself look female.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Robtard
You said "mentally ill" is a gender, sporto.

I'm asking you how you would classify that person. Well?
You're making a big deal out of what is obviously a joke. Obviously Surtur doesn't think mental illness is a gender.

NB4 the inevitable "Well I didn't know it was a joke, I think he's retarded enough to actually think that hur dur"

Robtard
Oh, the "it's a joke!" defense after the shit dribbled down the chin. Cool.

DarthPlaguis12

Surtur
Originally posted by Beniboybling
"Science says I'm right unless it says I'm wrong then it's PC"

42 or 69, I can't decide. sad

So basically, infinite.

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
Oh, the "it's a joke!" defense after the shit dribbled down the chin. Cool.

Lol I know you knew it was a joke from the very beginning. No reason to pretend otherwise.

Robtard

Flyattractor
Is Gay its own Gender?

I just ask cause Robbie really wants to F-Up some Trannies and He seems confused.

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
Points to: Gender =/=Sex, which is the topic. Try and follow along even more retarded TI. YW.

You mention this guy had surgery and chemical therapy. Would your opinion of him change if he looked that way without needing to resort to surgery or chemical therapy?

In other words, is a guy who does nothing but throw on a wig, some makeup and a dress and says he is female...actually female?

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Surtur
So basically, infinite. basically, yeah

MythLord
Originally posted by Surtur
So basically, infinite.
If you think about it, the number 2 can be larger than an infinity. Since between 1 and 2 you have an infinite amount of numbers in the form of 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, and all of that leads to infinity.

So technically, there are indeed infinite genders. smile

Now as for gender being a social construct, I don't agree with that. But it's obviously more complex than just your genitals.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Surtur
You mention this guy had surgery and chemical therapy. Would your opinion of him change if he looked that way without needing to resort to surgery or chemical therapy?

In other words, is a guy who does nothing but throw on a wig, some makeup and a dress and says he is female...actually female?

Wait a Minute....Are you trying to say that THIS....

Originally posted by Robtard
"Mentally ill" isn't a gender unless you think schizophrenics, manic depressives, clinical depressives etc are an gender now?

Having that what, what is this person's gender/sex to you:

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/news-img/maximum/6497.jpg

...Was Not Done using ONLY THE POWER OF.....

https://i.imgur.com/vPtZp3G.gif

IMAGINATION!!!???

BackFire
Originally posted by Robtard
"Mentally ill" isn't a gender unless you think schizophrenics, manic depressives, clinical depressives etc are an gender now?

Having that what, what is this person's gender/sex to you:

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/news-img/maximum/6497.jpg

I would probably have sex with this person.

Surtur
Originally posted by BackFire
I would probably have sex with this person.

What if he looked exactly the same, but still had a dick?

BackFire
It's only gay if your balls touch.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by BackFire
It's only gay if your balls touch.

I wonder if BF just shared his very own Medical Condition with us.... eek!

Robtard
Originally posted by Surtur
You mention this guy had surgery and chemical therapy. Would your opinion of him change if he looked that way without needing to resort to surgery or chemical therapy?

In other words, is a guy who does nothing but throw on a wig, some makeup and a dress and says he is female...actually female?

There's no blanket here to group everyone together. Really depends what is going inside this 'guy in a wig' mind. There's been studies/brain scans that show some men and women whose brain patterns more closely resemble the sex opposite/different to what the were genetically born with between their legs. AdamPoE has posted these before.

Answer this: What makes you a man? Is it just what is between your legs or is it also the chemical and neurological composition of your brain? A combo? Something else?

Robtard
Originally posted by BackFire
I would probably have sex with this person.

So would Surtur, which by his reasoning it would mean he's having gay sex.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by Robtard
So would Surtur, which by his reasoning it would mean he's having gay sex.

*Reported for Homophobic Comments*

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
So would Surtur,

Where did I ever say this?

I would never bang even a post-op tranny.

Robtard
Oh, stop lying. You'd consider her a woman until told otherwise. Anyhow, your thoughts on:

Originally posted by Robtard

Answer this: What makes you a man? Is it just what is between your legs or is it also the chemical and neurological composition of your brain? A combo? Something else?

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
Oh, stop lying. You'd consider her a woman until told otherwise. Anyhow, your thoughts on:

Not a lie.

As for your questions, muh chromosomes.

darthgoober
I'd say it's just what one has going on between their legs. Strait men are men, gay men are men, transvestite men are men, and all men have a very wide range of possible chemical and neurological ranges. A person can have all kinds of crazy shit going on between their ears so it's just easier to classify by the reality of the situation. Classifications should make navigating society simpler, not even more convoluted.

And I'd absolutely bang a post op tranny if she was physically hot. Hell I'd most likely bang a dude if I thought he was physically hot, it's just that such a thing has never happened before.

Robtard
Originally posted by Surtur
Not a lie.

As for your questions, muh chromosomes.
So that picture screams "man" to you? No, it does not. You only know because you were told.

And our genes at least in part make up our brain's chemical composition and neurological responses. See: The previous post about brain pattern scans and transgender people.

Robtard
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'd say it's just what one has going on between their legs. Strait men are men, gay men are men, transvestite men are men, and all men have a very wide range of possible chemical and neurological ranges. A person can have all kinds of crazy shit going on between their ears so it's just easier to classify by the reality of the situation. Classifications should make navigating society simpler, not even more convoluted.

And I'd absolutely bang a post op tranny if she was physically hot. Hell I'd most likely bang a dude if I thought he was physically hot, it's just that such a thing has never happened before.

https://media.giphy.com/media/8fxad4tvqIzwk/giphy.gif

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
So that picture screams "man" to you? No, it does not. You only know because you were told.

And our genes at least in part make up our brain's chemical composition and neurological responses. See: The previous post about brain pattern scans and transgender people.

I never said the picture screams man. I said I would never f*ck a post op tranny.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Robtard
https://media.giphy.com/media/8fxad4tvqIzwk/giphy.gif
That doesn't work on me. People accused me of being gay all throughout highschool(mostly cause of how I dressed)... I've never given a f*ck lol

Robtard
Originally posted by Surtur
I never said the picture screams man. I said I would never f*ck a post op tranny. Well, you bravely responded the the non-issue. Well played.

Robtard
Originally posted by darthgoober
That doesn't work on me. People accused me of being gay all throughout highschool(mostly cause of how I dressed)... I've never given a f*ck lol

Whatever you say, gaybo

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
Whatever you say, gaybo

The other stuff you said really didn't negate what I had said so...no real need to respond.

Surtur
Originally posted by darthgoober
That doesn't work on me. People accused me of being gay all throughout highschool(mostly cause of how I dressed)... I've never given a f*ck lol

So exactly how did you dress?

Robtard
Originally posted by Surtur
The other stuff you said really didn't negate what I had said so...no real need to respond.

It completely demolished your sophomoric points; it's why you chose to dodge. Moving on though.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Surtur
So exactly how did you dress?
Goth type stuff. Black eyeliner, renaissance style ruffly shirts, fingerless elbow length fishnet gloves, lots of silver jewelry, hair down to my waist... that kind of thing. I live a small town in Oklahoma... doesn't take much lol

Robtard
Pfft, that's hardly gay

darthgoober
Originally posted by Robtard
Pfft, that's hardly gay
Like I said, doesn't take much where I'm from lol. And the fact that I didn't fight against the accusations with typical homophobic rage certainly didn't sit well with them either.

darthgoober
As an example, here's me at Prom...

Robtard
Is that a priest outfit?

Christina B
Originally posted by Robtard
Is that a priest outfit? laughing out loud

darthgoober
Originally posted by Robtard
Is that a priest outfit?
Yup. Spend $350 having it custom made for me.

Christina B
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yup. Spend $350 having it custom made for me. I still go trick-or-treating, and I am 32.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Christina B
I still go trick-or-treating, and I am 32.
I pretty much had to stop going trick or treating in highschool cause most years I dressed up as a "normal person" for the Holiday. Freshman year was my last round of trick or treating, I went as a dark fairy princess lol

Robtard
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yup. Spend $350 having it custom made for me.

You spend $350.00 on your high school prom dress? Okay, maybe a little gay stick out tongue

darthgoober
Originally posted by Robtard
You spend $350.00 on your high school prom dress? Okay, maybe a little gay stick out tongue
Hey it wasn't just for prom... I wore that thing at least once a week after that. And that's actually just the beginning, I've also got on brand new $50 boots and almost $100 worth of new jewelry in that pic lol

Surtur
Originally posted by Robtard
It completely demolished your sophomoric points; it's why you chose to dodge. Moving on though.

No it didn't. Indeed, I'd suggest moving on too.

Surtur
Originally posted by darthgoober
As an example, here's me at Prom...

Are you wearing sunglasses inside?

darthgoober
Originally posted by Surtur
Are you wearing sunglasses inside?
Oh yes, I was a "sunglasses all the time" kinda kid. I was actually the only person in school to get away with even wearing my sunglasses in class. And not only was the pic taken inside, it was like 9 P.M. lol

Surtur
Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh yes, I was a "sunglasses all the time" kinda kid. I was actually the only person in school to get away with even wearing my sunglasses in class. And not only was the pic taken inside, it was like 9 P.M. lol

Lol what is that grey dot a little bit underneath the white collar?

darthgoober
Originally posted by Surtur
Lol what is that grey dot a little bit underneath the white collar?
You mean on my chest? That was the new necklaces I bought for the occasion. They don't show up well in the picture but they were really cool looking. And on my left index finger I'm also wearing a full length jeweled finger claw. The claw wasn't brand new though, I bartered with a friend of a friend for it.

Surtur
Did you ever use the claw on anyone?!

Beniboybling
Originally posted by darthgoober
fingerless elbow length fishnet gloves need me some of these love

darthgoober
Originally posted by Surtur
Did you ever use the claw on anyone?!
Nah it wasn't sharp. I always planned on getting it sharpened, but just never got around to it. Besides, I had just gotten off probation for calling in a bomb threat to my previous highschool so I didn't want to risk getting into trouble for using a weapon in a fight.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Beniboybling
need me some of these love
Oh mine were badass. One of my old girlfriends gave them to me for my birthday.

StyleTime
Originally posted by Surtur
Fair enough. Also I made a mistake, you didn't say there were 3 genders, but 3 sexes.

How many genders do you think there are?
No one knows for sure. Could be infinite. Could be zero. And to make matters more complicated, these categories and the ways we describe them change constantly. Thus is the nature of social constructs.

This topic is actually extraordinarily complicated, and I think people are more willing than you think to be "un-PC" about it, provided it comes from a place of genuine intellectual curiosity.

There's been plenty of scholarly critiques of the transgender movement. There's the obvious feminist divide. Many trans exclusionary radical feminists see a huge problem with men living their whole lives as men, enjoying all the privilege it may bring, then feeling entitled to women-only spaces a few months into transitioning. To them, you're appropriating a history of female-centered oppression when you skipped the worst parts of it. (In their view).

Post-modernist viewpoints(feminist or otherwise) may take issue with transgender-ism because it reinforces the same social constructs and possibly gender essentialism that they worked so hard to fight against. You sorta hit on this here.
Originally posted by Surtur
In other words, is a guy who does nothing but throw on a wig, some makeup and a dress and says he is female...actually female?
They might agree with you. What does it mean to be a woman? You wear a dress and use make up? Long hair? Adjust your gait and posture to more conventionally feminine modes?

Well, none of these are what a woman is. These are socially constructed ideas about what a woman is. These don't actually make you a woman on their own, because they are illusions we created for ourselves. If that's true, and "woman" isn't actually a thing, then a trans-woman is actually a feminine man. Which is cool. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone should be free to express themselves however they choose. However, these folks would argue, that sex is the only thing that mattered in the end. Gender was just a rigid and irrelevant set of ideas we made up ourselves.

Alternatively, we can argue these social constructs are well-defined enough that these things can mean woman. In this case, yeah, a dude can totally identify with enough feminine gender norms to be a woman.

Or, we primarily identify people by the secondary sexual characteristics they present, not their genitals. Maybe fitting into the proper box visually is what's really required here. Then again, that excludes masculine presenting transwomen and feminine presenting trans-men.

And, in the future, they're may be legit, "true" sex changes...

In short, man. Shit is complicated. The important thing is that we treat each other like people. A woman shouldn't get dragged behind a bus because she wants to live as a man.

Surtur
Originally posted by darthgoober
Nah it wasn't sharp. I always planned on getting it sharpened, but just never got around to it. Besides, I had just gotten off probation for calling in a bomb threat to my previous highschool so I didn't want to risk getting into trouble for using a weapon in a fight.

Lol...dare I ask why you called in a bomb threat?

darthgoober
Originally posted by Surtur
Lol...dare I ask why you called in a bomb threat?
They pissed me off one time too many so I waited for an exceptionally hot day and called it in so everyone would have to sit outside in the heat for hours.

Surtur

darthgoober

Mindship
IMHO ...

Mind and body are not two fundamental substances that interact but are ultimately separate (a Dualist philosophy, one that serves as a radical ego-defense mechanism against death terror). Instead, mind and body are two aspects of the same, singular entity. (Think of a soda can: held one way, it casts a rectangular shadow; held another way, a circular shadow. A rectangle and a circle are two completely different shapes, yet both reflect the same, singular entity). If a person feels he/she is other than male or female, this will be reflected in the body somewhere (eg, not fully differentiated sex organs; the body didn't "hormonize" evenly in the womb, etc -- a "dent" in the can). There are trillions of working parts in a human body; it's astounding that so many of us come out as "normal" as we do.

As such, gender fluid is a myth, because it implies that the body is fluid, that the body can change sexes (which to my knowledge, does not happen). People who say they are gender fluid either have some physical/sexual correlate that is too subtle for the person to feel out, or, we have a person who is simply desperate to be unique. The fact of the matter is, biologically speaking we are here for one purpose and one purpose only: to reproduce, and that means male and female are the (multicellular) standard. Anything else (again, purely biologically speaking) is a deviation from the norm.

Mind you: this does Not mean that "other-sexuals" are less deserving of respect and dignity than normals, anymore than a person born blind or with missing limbs deserves less. They are still just as much a part of the Human Family as any of us (we all have dents one way or another). It is their choices and actions that matter.

Surtur
If I had a dollar for every gender there is I'd have 2 dollars and a shitload of counterfeits.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Mindship
IMHO ...

Mind and body are not two fundamental substances that interact but are ultimately separate (a Dualist philosophy, one that serves as a radical ego-defense mechanism against death terror). Instead, mind and body are two aspects of the same, singular entity. (Think of a soda can: held one way, it casts a rectangular shadow; held another way, a circular shadow. A rectangle and a circle are two completely different shapes, yet both reflect the same, singular entity). If a person feels he/she is other than male or female, this will be reflected in the body somewhere (eg, not fully differentiated sex organs; the body didn't "hormonize" evenly in the womb, etc -- a "dent" in the can). There are trillions of working parts in a human body; it's astounding that so many of us come out as "normal" as we do.

As such, gender fluid is a myth, because it implies that the body is fluid, that the body can change sexes (which to my knowledge, does not happen). People who say they are gender fluid either have some physical/sexual correlate that is too subtle for the person to feel out, or, we have a person who is simply desperate to be unique. The fact of the matter is, biologically speaking we are here for one purpose and one purpose only: to reproduce, and that means male and female are the (multicellular) standard. Anything else (again, purely biologically speaking) is a deviation from the norm.

Mind you: this does Not mean that "other-sexuals" are less deserving of respect and dignity than normals, anymore than a person born blind or with missing limbs deserves less. They are still just as much a part of the Human Family as any of us (we all have dents one way or another). It is their choices and actions that matter.
Yeah, this is pretty much my view on the whole gender thing as well.

Kurk
gender is a social construct and defines an arbitrary role you're expected to play within society.

gender is biological.


I myself am gender-neutral.

Flyattractor
Yes. Science has Nothing to do with it.

StyleTime
Originally posted by Surtur
If I had a dollar for every gender there is I'd have 2 dollars and a shitload of counterfeits.
I can't see 1 or 2 being possible, unless you accept it's a social construct. It's either 0, 3, or 3+ if you think only biological sex is relevant.

Intersex are basically forced into a category they don't fit in, scientifically, if we limit it to only 2. Oddly, they have the opposite problem of many transgenders. They are forced into surgeries/hormone treatments many don't want because society can't wrap it's head around someone being neither male nor female, biologically.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by StyleTime
I can't see 1 or 2 being possible, unless you accept it's a social construct. It's either 0, 3, or 3+ if you think only biological sex is relevant.

Intersex are basically forced into a category they don't fit in, scientifically, if we limit it to only 2. Oddly, they have the opposite problem of many transgenders. They are forced into surgeries/hormone treatments many don't want because society can't wrap it's head around someone being neither male nor female, biologically.

Biological Sex is "Relevant" because it is the only Sex that has a Purpose and a Function. Everything else is just a delusional but pleasurable past time that its significance is vastly overblown, but then that is very common of the Current Generation. Power of Imagination over Actual Reality.

Impediment
XY= Male
XX= Female
XXY= Klinefelter syndrome.

Then, of course, there's the gender dysphoric lunatics, but I don't wanna get started on that nonsense.

StyleTime
Originally posted by Flyattractor
Biological Sex is "Relevant" because it is the only Sex that has a Purpose and a Function. Everything else is just a delusional but pleasurable past time that its significance is vastly overblown, but then that is very common of the Current Generation. Power of Imagination over Actual Reality.
I'm saying that there's more than two biological sexes though. If you're saying gender = biology, then there's certainly more than 2 genders.
Originally posted by Impediment


Then, of course, there's the gender dysphoric lunatics, but I don't wanna get started on that nonsense.
The thing that gets me, is those claiming not to be on the spectrum.

The whole point of using the spectrum is to include all gender expressions. Some just want to think they are so unique they can't be classified...

Flyattractor
Originally posted by StyleTime
I'm saying that there's more than two biological sexes though. If you're saying gender = biology, then there's certainly more than 2 genders.


Nope that is just Politically Driven Nonsense.

Surtur
Anyways: two genders. No 3rd, no 4th, no 5th.

Just 2. We can discuss there being more than 2 when someone can give me a concrete number.

quanchi112

Surtur

quanchi112
Originally posted by Surtur
Keep it smile? Oh? Simple like your family.

Surtur
Originally posted by quanchi112
Simple like your family.

Simple, like using the word simple when you mean to do so, instead of the word smile?

quanchi112

Surtur

quanchi112
Originally posted by Surtur
Swing and a miss, but you tried. I hit a homerun at your expense. It felt great since you are poor.

Surtur
Originally posted by quanchi112
I hit a homerun at your expense. It felt great since you are poor.

Whatever helps you cope little one.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Surtur
Whatever helps you cope little one. I am not the one poor cleaning dog poo.

Surtur
Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not the one poor cleaning dog poo.

Well this is true you certainly aren't poor cuz you clean dog poo.

quanchi112

Surtur

quanchi112
Originally posted by Surtur
This post oozes projection. Nah, it is apt for your mindset and place in life. Bottom dweller.

Surtur
Originally posted by quanchi112
Nah, it is apt for your mindset and place in life. Bottom dweller.

Just oozes projection.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Surtur
Just oozes projection. You are so upset responding everywhere and crying out for someone to intervene. Are you ok?

Surtur
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are so upset responding everywhere and crying out for someone to intervene. Are you ok?

^Poster who continues to respond to me across multiple threads just said this lol. Gotta love it.

SquallX

Flyattractor
Nah. He is just bored now that no one cares about Marvel Movies now that Summer is over.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Emperordmb
You're making a big deal out of what is obviously a joke. Obviously Surtur doesn't think mental illness is a gender.

It's a joke that implies a viewpoint that there's two genders.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Surtur
^Poster who continues to respond to me across multiple threads just said this lol. Gotta love it. Calm down.

quanchi112

quanchi112

dadudemon

BackFire
It is a very good movie. I'm gonna be buying it on 4k later today.

quanchi112

BackFire
https://www.reddit.com/r/thanosdidnothingwrong/

Surtur
Originally posted by BackFire
https://www.reddit.com/r/thanosdidnothingwrong/

LOL! I remember seeing that.

Thanos would totally approve of some of the Georgia Guidestones

Impediment

StyleTime
Originally posted by Flyattractor
Nope that is just Politically Driven Nonsense.
That there are more than 2 sexes? That's science.
Originally posted by Surtur
Anyways: two genders. No 3rd, no 4th, no 5th.

Just 2. We can discuss there being more than 2 when someone can give me a concrete number.
Okay, for a moment, I'll say 3.

Why should intersex individuals be lumped into male/female?

quanchi112

Surtur
I honestly have no problem with truly intersex people not wanting to identify.

But you see the number cited isn't usually 3.

Flyattractor
Well Goodbye to this thread then.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by StyleTime
That there are more than 2 sexes? That's science.

Okay, for a moment, I'll say 3.

Why should intersex individuals be lumped into male/female?

Sure there is Skippy. Cause much like Politics. Science can't be debated....at least on the College Level.

Silent Master
Originally posted by StyleTime
That there are more than 2 sexes? That's science.

Okay, for a moment, I'll say 3.

Why should intersex individuals be lumped into male/female?

So everyone that says there are more than 3 is wrong?

StyleTime
Originally posted by Surtur
I honestly have no problem with truly intersex people not wanting to identify.

But you see the number cited isn't usually 3.
Cool.

True, but I'm talking about the "biology only" argument.
Originally posted by Flyattractor
Sure there is Skippy. Cause much like Politics. Science can't be debated....at least on the College Level.
You equate gender with sex, which means there can't be only 2 genders. Scientifically, there's at least 3. Or are you pretending intersex doesn't exist?

Or are you just being our lovable Fly? I genuinely enjoy your presence either way though.
Originally posted by Silent Master
So everyone that says there are more than 3 is wrong?
I'm saying 3 because Surtur wanted a specific number as a discussion point. I was sticking to biology for those who believe gender and sex shouldn't be separated.

The people saying there's 3+ believe, in short, this: Gender and sex are different things. Sex refers to our biological makeup. Gender refers to the roles and modes of expression expected of us by the world we inhabit. Being that these vary, even within a single society throughout time, I'm free to accept or reject whichever set of constructs I want. I can be all, none, or any combination of these and I am not permanently tied to one particular identity.

I've heard as high as 63. I think it's still being worked out though.

Silent Master
Fair enough, It's just that I've never heard a single person state that they are biologically ___ but identify with the gender role of ____. I usually just hear them say, I 'm a ____ because that is what I identify as.

IMO, People should be free to call themselves whatever they want.

darthgoober
Originally posted by StyleTime
Cool.

True, but I'm talking about the "biology only" argument.

You equate gender with sex, which means there can't be only 2 genders. Scientifically, there's at least 3. Or are you pretending intersex doesn't exist?

Or are you just being our lovable Fly? I genuinely enjoy your presence either way though.

I'm saying 3 because Surtur wanted a specific number as a discussion point. I was sticking to biology for those who believe gender and sex shouldn't be separated.

The people saying there's 3+ believe, in short, this: Gender and sex are different things. Sex refers to our biological makeup. Gender refers to the roles and modes of expression expected of us by the world we inhabit. Being that these vary, even within a single society throughout time, I'm free to accept or reject whichever set of constructs I want. I can be all, none, or any combination of these and I am not permanently tied to one particular identity.

I've heard as high as 63. I think it's still being worked out though.
Yeah but intersex is so rare, it could easily be viewed as a genetic anomaly rather than it's own gender. I mean there are probably more dykey gay women than intersex, but they don't get their own gender. I get that intersex don't fall into the male or female category, but it's more of a condition. And it's totally fair to note such a thing rather than sticking them in the impossible spot of picking one. I'd have no problem with adding "other" alongside the boxes Male and Female to account for all the variations of hermaphrodites and eunuchs.

StyleTime
Originally posted by Silent Master
Fair enough, It's just that I've never heard a single person state that they are biologically ___ but identify with the gender role of ____. I usually just hear them say, I 'm a ____ because that is what I identify as.

IMO, People should be free to call themselves whatever they want.
True. They usually use short-hand, like "born in the wrong body." This statement is basically a way of saying all that with fewer words.

You might just be running into dumbasses though lol. This is why I never visit Tumblr/Twitter/etc, outside of occasional porn viewing vin. Dumb/Ignorant people exist whether you're trans, cis, or whatever and they don't always understand the nuance of the arguments they're trying to make. I'm pretty sure I'm on Fly's "Crazy Leftist Boogeyman" list, and even I roll my eyes at many of them.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but intersex is so rare, it could easily be viewed as a genetic anomaly rather than it's own gender. I mean there are probably more dykey gay women than intersex, but they don't get their own gender. I get that intersex don't fall into the male or female category, but it's more of a condition. And it's totally fair to note such a thing rather than sticking them in the impossible spot of picking one. I'd have no problem with adding "other" alongside the boxes Male and Female to account for all the variations of hermaphrodites and eunuchs.
I see what you mean, but it's still most accurate to include it, especially for the folks claiming to be all about science.

Red hair is as rare, even rarer by some estimates, as intersex birth, yet we don't claim that there are only two hair colors. Blue eyes originated from a genetic mutation, and are only slightly more common than intersex births; however, we still understand blue to be a possible eye color. Red hair and blue eyes is far less common than intersex birth, yet it's still a possibility. We can include stuff like heterochromia too. They are all within the range of possible, healthy human bodies.

We're mostly on the same page though. The "condition" label is complicated because many intersex individuals and variations don't exhibit any detrimental symptoms associated with a "condition." There's lots of effort in the medical world to sort this out though, from what I understand.

darthgoober
Originally posted by StyleTime
True. They usually use short-hand, like "born in the wrong body." This statement is basically a way of saying all that with fewer words.

You might just be running into dumbasses though lol. This is why I never visit Tumblr/Twitter/etc, outside of occasional porn viewing vin. Dumb/Ignorant people exist whether you're trans, cis, or whatever and they don't always understand the nuance of the arguments they're trying to make. I'm pretty sure I'm on Fly's "Crazy Leftist Boogeyman" list, and even I roll my eyes at many of them.

I see what you mean, but it's still most accurate to include it, especially for the folks claiming to be all about science.

Red hair is as rare, even rarer by some estimates, as intersex birth, yet we don't claim that there are only two hair colors. Blue eyes originated from a genetic mutation, and are only slightly more common than intersex births; however, we still understand blue to be a possible eye color. Red hair and blue eyes is far less common than intersex birth, yet it's still a possibility. We can include stuff like heterochromia too. They are all within the range of possible, healthy human bodies.

We're mostly on the same page though. The "condition" label is complicated because many intersex individuals and variations don't exhibit any detrimental symptoms associated with a "condition." There's lots of effort in the medical world to sort this out though, from what I understand.
See I disagree because being intersex isn't really something totally different, it's simply a mix up of the 2 true genders.

With hair it's different though, because it's simply applying an existing concept(the color red) to hair. Even if you have a hair color that falls outside of the generic true color, you get lumped into the color category(auburn and such all qualify as "red hair"wink. The classification for it is fixed, rather than individualized. When filling out a form someone with red hair isn't allowed to say "well I don't feel like a red head so I'm going to name my hair color Dragons Blood" and then expect government and the rest of society to allow for that option. And I know that last part isn't really pertinent to discussing such a thing on purely biological basis, I just wanted to include it as an example of why I'm so against all this 70+ gender BS.

StyleTime
Originally posted by darthgoober
See I disagree because being intersex isn't really something totally different, it's simply a mix up of the 2 true genders.

With hair it's different though, because it's simply applying an existing concept(the color red) to hair. Even if you have a hair color that falls outside of the generic true color, you get lumped into the color category(auburn and such all qualify as "red hair"wink. The classification for it is fixed, rather than individualized. When filling out a form someone with red hair isn't allowed to say "well I don't feel like a red head so I'm going to name my hair color Dragons Blood" and then expect government and the rest of society to allow for that option. And I know that last part isn't really pertinent to discussing such a thing on purely biological basis, I just wanted to include it as an example of why I'm so against all this 70+ gender BS.
I hear ya, but male and female bodies are already a mixup of each other. Our bodies are mostly identical, and even our genitals share the same development path. Your scrotum and a woman's labia are the same thing under the influence of different hormones. Your penis, put comically simply, is a clitoris pointing outward. These and several other organs/parts share the exact same embryological precursor. Men and women were never separate entities to begin with, so much as different expressions on a single canvas. To penalize intersex for existing at point C on the continuum, rather than point A(female) or point B(male) just seems arbitrary.

I mentioned hair because your post implied that rarity meant something was invalid. People change their hair color all the time and list the new one on government documents though. With sex/gender, I guess it depends on what they are asking for. They asked for sex on my driver's license, which is a biological thing. If they ask for gender on certain ones, I can see the argument for allowing people to change it.

I agree though, the 9 million genders thing is tricky territory. We may look back on this like the lesbian separatist feminists of the past. When society develops a new social paradigm, we must consider all relevant possibilities. Women like Julie Bindel and Shiela Jeffries were a bit off the mark, even if they were well-intentioned. Even the lesbian separatists have lightened up on that stance in modern times, but it was a somewhat mainstream topic at one point in time.

I think that's what's happening now. We're trying to figure out how to proceed socially. In the future we may look back on all the gender pronouns in the same way: an interesting but ultimately impractical option. Of course, maybe not. I can't predict the future.

cdtm
Style:

Not different expressions? Are you saying men/women differences are entirely socially conditioned? No biological based behavioral differences?

StyleTime
No, I am not, my good sir.

If you're referencing the sentence I think you're referencing, I think you misread it.

Maybe I could have punctuated/articulated it better, but laziness is a virtue tbh.

Eon Blue

dadudemon

Eon Blue
Originally posted by dadudemon
1. Hi! Long time since I last saw you around these parts.

2. I agree with your post. I prefer to err on the side of "live and let live."

Hey, buddy! Indeed it has been ages. I hope life has fared you well.

Yeah. I disagree with some aspects of certain lifestyles, but do not see the need to espouse a preachy dogma.

Emperordmb
I mean if there's a binary transgender person I'll call them either he or she based on which one they identify as.

As for the non-binary genderblender xe zir zippitybop horseshit, I'll just use they or really awkwardly use their name in place of a pronoun. I'll walk on eggshells to avoid becoming a mouthpiece for language that I detest.

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