Aquaman & Mera & Wonder Woman vs Mighty Avengers

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Philosophía
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e0/96/da/e096da9a6098daf7556c64ac1bfb0e9a.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111180200/4419315-1585046719-11026.jpg

vs

https://imgc.allpostersimages.com/img/print/posters/mark-bagley-the-mighty-avengers-no-7-group-ms-marvel_a-G-13460259-4988577.jpg

Location:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/Lac_Peyto_%284%29.jpg/330px-Lac_Peyto_%284%29.jpg

Who wins?

Sin I AM
The game changer is Sentry and Dianas lasso. If she manages to snare him and hold him DC can win. That leaves Simon, Ares and Tony to fight Team Atlantis...Jess, Janet, Nat are non factors.

deathslash
Originally posted by Sin I AM
The game changer is Sentry and Dianas lasso. If she manages to snare him and hold him DC can win. That leaves Simon, Ares and Tony to fight Team Atlantis...Jess, Janet, Nat are non factors. Jess has gone up against the hulk before and did very good for herself. Janet has stunned the blob. Wouldn't exactly call them non factors.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by deathslash
Jess has gone up against the hulk before and did very good for herself. Janet has stunned the blob. Wouldn't exactly call them non factors.

Operating (albeit briefly) out of your weight class does not mean you can hang with the big boys. She cant split even, take a maj or score a win off anyone here so yes she's a non factor. Imo

deathslash
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Operating (albeit briefly) out of your weight class does not mean you can hang with the big boys. She cant split even, take a maj or score a win off anyone here so yes she's a non factor. Imo being a mobile distraction always factors into fights like these. Both Jess and Jan can help keep the team off balance. Both have done that numerous times in their history. So no, I don't think they're non factors.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by deathslash
being a mobile distraction always factors into fights like these. Both Jess and Jan can help keep the team off balance. Both have done that numerous times in their history. So no, I don't think they're non factors.
In a comic maybe...forum no.

zopzop
The Mighty Avengers are too much. Sentry is the game changer. He has to be gone to make it fair.

Without him there, it's a close fight. The DC trio could do it though but it would be hard. Aquaman is the weak link. Mera's desiccation attack would wipe out : Carol, Wasp, Ares, Spiderwoman, and Black Widow. Simon is immune and Iron Man is shielded via his armor (like Black Manta was). That leaves Wonder Woman and Mera to take on Simon and Iron Man. I don't know what help AM would be here vs flying foes.

Keep in mind Mera can still destroy Simon by doing what Awakened Hydroman did. I don't know if she would think of winning in that fashion though.

Good fight but Sentry gotta go.

DarkSaint85
Surely the haxx lasso balances Sentry out?

Sin I AM
Originally posted by zopzop
The Mighty Avengers are too much. Sentry is the game changer. He has to be gone to make it fair.

Without him there, it's a close fight. The DC trio could do it though but it would be hard. Aquaman is the weak link. Mera's desiccation attack would wipe out : Carol, Wasp, Ares, Spiderwoman, and Black Widow. Simon is immune and Iron Man is shielded via his armor (like Black Manta was). That leaves Wonder Woman and Mera to take on Simon and Iron Man. I don't know what help AM would be here vs flying foes.

Keep in mind Mera can still destroy Simon by doing what Awakened Hydroman did. I don't know if she would think of winning in that fashion though.

Good fight but Sentry gotta go.

I basically made this exact same argument smh

Philosophía
Originally posted by zopzop
The Mighty Avengers are too much. Sentry is the game changer. He has to be gone to make it fair. Hm. Above Wonder Woman? Why?

This is the same Sentry who got KO'd by Blue Marvel in orbit, for one. Are you including the Void in your assessment?

zopzop

Sin I AM
Originally posted by zopzop
Nope. I think Sentry would actually break the lasso if push came to shove.

I know, I was backing you up big grin

I'm surprised you didn't ask me how Awakened Hydroman wrecked Wonder Man (a tactic Mera could employ if she wanted to).

I'm wonder how Sentry would do against the lassos hax myself...i think it would result in a self bfr or release the void.

Thx

Becuz everyone lowballs Aquaman related characters...

Stoic
Avengers take it. Team DC needs help on several fronts. Despite people discounting the street level/mid meta trio, Widow is certainly a factor with the ability to take out Mera and Arthur with sedative rounds, while Jessica has power over men, and Jan can and has gotten small enough to sting Atuma in his eardrum with stings capable of punching through steel reinforced doors.

Philo, you've placed too much stock on the DC trio if you believe that they could rise above this Avengers line up, which goes to show you just how dominant Blue Marvel was during his arc. It also shows why he defeated Pagan solo.

StiltmanFTW
Veranke, not Jessica.

zopzop
Originally posted by Stoic
Avengers take it. Team DC needs help on several fronts. Despite people discounting the street level/mid meta trio, Widow is certainly a factor with the ability to take out Mera and Arthur with sedative rounds, while Jessica has power over men, and Jan can and has gotten small enough to sting Atuma in his eardrum with stings capable of punching through steel reinforced doors.

Philo, you've placed too much stock on the DC trio if you believe that they could rise above this Avengers line up, which goes to show you just how dominant Blue Marvel was during his arc. It also shows why he defeated Pagan solo.
Stoic, do you realize in terms of RAW POWER, Mera is greater than anyone on Team Avengers except Sentry and Full Binary Carol right?

Stoic
Originally posted by zopzop
Stoic, do you realize in terms of RAW POWER, Mera is greater than anyone on Team Avengers except Sentry and Full Binary Carol right?

Wonder Man could take her down Zop. Power is great but Widow can make a shot dead on 2 miles out. Diana would be the only one to possibly stop this if it were aimed at her. Widow could take out Arthur and Mera without killing them with tranquilizer rounds. You have to stop sticking to the tier system too much because you discount things like raw skill.

DarkSaint85
Tranqs piercing AM?

zopzop
Originally posted by Stoic
Wonder Man could take her down Zop.
You think? What's stopping her from ending him like Awakened Hydrman did?
https://s8.postimg.cc/jrpo05ljl/image.jpg https://s8.postimg.cc/x8mmj13kx/image.jpg

Sin I AM
Black Widow solos ...my god

carver9
Wonder Woman solos.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Tranqs piercing AM?

Armor piercing could break the skin if used by a high velocity rifle. Or do you think that this would fail? I know for sure that Diana's lasso would have a negative effect on Sentry. Magical items or spells seem to have made him react violently like his run in with Doom.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Black Widow solos ...my god

Wait, did I actually say that? She is a factor is what I said.

Originally posted by zopzop
You think? What's stopping her from ending him like Awakened Hydrman did?
https://s8.postimg.cc/jrpo05ljl/image.jpg https://s8.postimg.cc/x8mmj13kx/image.jpg

If not Simon, Tony could. The Avenger have more to draw from, which is why there is no reason that they shouldn't that a healthy majority.

Philosophía
Originally posted by zopzop
I'm surprised you didn't ask me how Awakened Hydroman wrecked Wonder Man (a tactic Mera could employ if she wanted to). I was checking out to see if this:
http://i.imgur.com/P7NUCFI.jpg
...really applies to Iron Man, without him using special prep. I know he has feats of blocking TP , so I guess that could work, since her power is basically TP. And he has TP inhibitors:
http://i.imgur.com/x7Hcwxo.png
but...
I'm not sure if it's exactly the same thing, since she's TPing the water itself, and not his brain or anything, so the inhibitors themselves don't work unless he...inhibts TP in all of his body/organs?

Nice hydroman scans thumb up

I still don't see your position on Sentry, though. Mighty Avengers Sentry, in particular, wasn't really all that, baring the void. Blue Marvel KOd him, Hercules was toying with him :
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64880/6352421-4333517032-g7RWA.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64880/6352422-4479923339-97sL5.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64880/6352423-3386464494-Fpi5B.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64880/6352424-7976528368-b59bC.jpg
Then we have him against Red Hulk:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t/39150838_RedHulk1.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t/39150839_RedHulk2.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t/39150840_RedHulk3.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t/39150841_RedHulk4.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t/39150842_RedHulk5.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t/39150843_RedHulk6.jpg
..and plenty of stuff like this.
We have the good fight against Photon, the fight against WWH and, well...?
I'm not even going to get into the 'breaking the lasso' part since that's crazy talk, zop!

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Black Widow solos ...my god

I assume the only guy whose posts I can't see said that. Guess why I can't see his posts? Exactly.

zopzop

Stoic
Probably because I didn't actually say that.

Stoic
Originally posted by zopzop
For some reason, I can't quote you. Only use 'quick quote' and even then I can't preview or edit it, just comes up blank. Oh well...

1) Regarding Mera/IM : for sure she's not using TP against his mind, she's manipulating the water in the environment. So TP blockers wouldnt' do jack against her power. I'm just assuming his suit is sealed like Manta's is/was. If not, he's phucked.

2) Wait, you are using THAT specific version of Sentry? Then that changes everything. Team DC solidly.

PS A non emo Sentry WILL destroy that lasso if he wanted to Philo. If not through brute strength then through his matter manipulation abilities.

Where was it explitly stated that Sentry was weak during Blue Marvels mini series? Phil has basically Jack shit in terms of proof concerning the Juggernauts power levels, as it fluctuated wildly from going toe to toe against King Hyperion to being spite raped by the Wrecking Crew. Ben Grimm beat them. Then again, by all means low ball away. Not to mention continuity between writers has been dubious at best.

Zack M
Originally posted by zopzop
For some reason, I can't quote you. Only use 'quick quote' and even then I can't preview or edit it, just comes up blank. Oh well...

1) Regarding Mera/IM : for sure she's not using TP against his mind, she's manipulating the water in the environment. So TP blockers wouldnt' do jack against her power. I'm just assuming his suit is sealed like Manta's is/was. If not, he's phucked.

2) Wait, you are using THAT specific version of Sentry? Then that changes everything. Team DC solidly.

PS A non emo Sentry WILL destroy that lasso if he wanted to Philo. If not through brute strength then through his matter manipulation abilities.

Yeah, non-Void Sentry isn't all that. Wonder Woman can at least break even, while MERA dumps the Pacific Ocean on the rest of the team. laughing

Philosophía
Originally posted by zopzop
For some reason, I can't quote you. Only use 'quick quote' and even then I can't preview or edit it, just comes up blank. Oh well...

1) Regarding Mera/IM : for sure she's not using TP against his mind, she's manipulating the water in the environment. So TP blockers wouldnt' do jack against her power. I'm just assuming his suit is sealed like Manta's is/was. If not, he's phucked.

2) Wait, you are using THAT specific version of Sentry? Then that changes everything. Team DC solidly.

PS A non emo Sentry WILL destroy that lasso if he wanted to Philo. If not through brute strength then through his matter manipulation abilities. 1). Yeah, I kept trying to find scans of IM's suit being bio-electrically sealed to the point where water-TP can't bypass it. Couldn't find anything other than tangentially related stuff . It's difficult to prove such a specific ability can be blocked by him, in a no-prep scenario.

2). Yeah, that's why I said the Mighty Avengers, and not just them separately. I didn't want to go into 'Void' territory here. So it's literally just that team , plucked out and put up against T1.

I disagree about the Void but meh, not the thread.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Stoic
Armor piercing could break the skin if used by a high velocity rifle. Or do you think that this would fail? I know for sure that Diana's lasso would have a negative effect on Sentry. Magical items or spells seem to have made him react violently like his run in with Doom.

I personally don't think they would work. Because you don't just load a normal assault rifle with tranq darts - one usually uses an air rifle or something similar; i.e., something far less powerful.

But meh, comics. I can see writers ignoring this.

-Pr-
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Tranqs piercing AM?

It's possible, but he's resisted powerful sedatives before so there's no guarantee they'd work on him.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I personally don't think they would work. Because you don't just load a normal assault rifle with tranq darts - one usually uses an air rifle or something similar; i.e., something far less powerful.

But meh, comics. I can see writers ignoring this.

Cool.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's possible, but he's resisted powerful sedatives before so there's no guarantee they'd work on him.

Glad you guys didn't attempt to twist my words. I was just saying that Janet, Black Widow, and Wasp are factors that shouldn't be ignored, especially since Janet can shrink done and zap any of them in the ear lobe for a possible KO. She's shot through steel plate with her stings.

-Pr-
If it seemed like I was twisting anything, my bad, I was just responding to DS. No offence intended.

I think Wasp can be an annoyance, but I don't see her putting down Arthur or Diana. Maybe Mera, but not sure.

Stoic
Originally posted by -Pr-
If it seemed like I was twisting anything, my bad, I was just responding to DS. No offence intended.

I think Wasp can be an annoyance, but I don't see her putting down Arthur or Diana. Maybe Mera, but not sure.

It wasn't you. I made a statement about how Black Widow, Jessica, and Wasp were factors, and Sin made it seem like I said that Black Widow was going to solo field. If you go back, you'll see the attempt to twist my words.

Damborgson
Wonder Woman would without a doubt unleash the void after she starts hacking off Sentry limbs.

But not taking that into account...I favor Avengers slightly.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Stoic
It wasn't you. I made a statement about how Black Widow, Jessica, and Wasp were factors, and Sin made it seem like I said that Black Widow was going to solo field. If you go back, you'll see the attempt to twist my words.

No word twisting was needed. I said Widow, Wasp and Jess are non factors. You stated that Widow could tranq AM and Mera from a mile away leaving Diana alone on the field. Your words not mine. Im just highlighting the ridiculousness of your statement

Stoic
Originally posted by Sin I AM
No word twisting was needed. I said Widow, Wasp and Jess are non factors. You stated that Widow could tranq AM and Mera from a mile away leaving Diana alone on the field. Your words not mine. Im just highlighting the ridiculousness of your statement

There was no ridiculousness. The only ridiculousness is your statement of saying that they were non factors which I evidently proved you wrong. See what I did there?

Next time don't attempt to twist my words before you read the entire statement that I made. None of the characters on the field are non factors. It's not as if Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Mera are Celestial level beings that are fully immune to these so called non factors that you've presented them to be.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Stoic
There was no ridiculousness. The only ridiculousness is your statement of saying that they were non factors which I evidently proved you wrong. See what I did there?

Next time don't attempt to twist my words before you read the entire statement that I made. None of the characters on the field are non factors. It's not as if Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Mera are Celestial level beings that are fully immune to these so called non factors that you've presented them to be.

Lol seriously? Stoic u made a bad statement. It happens. Create the thread....all three of these street levelers versus 1 dc character and see how often the word stomp gets used.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Sin I AM
No word twisting was needed. I said Widow, Wasp and Jess are non factors. You stated that Widow could tranq AM and Mera from a mile away leaving Diana alone on the field. Your words not mine. Im just highlighting the ridiculousness of your statement So seeing the talk, I had to and check Stoic's posts and, lol, you're right. He literally said that only Diana can stop Black Widow's transquilizer darts, and Widow'd solo Aquaman/Mera:

Originally posted by Stoic
Power is great but Widow can make a shot dead on 2 miles out. Diana would be the only one to possibly stop this if it were aimed at her. Widow could take out Arthur and Mera without killing them with tranquilizer rounds.

lol

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by -Pr-
he's resisted powerful sedatives before

https://tinyurl.com/ycwwvzxe

tkitna
Avengers win. Sentry is to much. Take him out of the picture and it could go either way.

carver9
Seen my post saying WW solos. That was most def a bad type. Sentry solos.

quanchi112
Originally posted by tkitna
Avengers win. Sentry is to much. Take him out of the picture and it could go either way. thumb up

Zack M
Originally posted by carver9
Seen my post saying WW solos. That was most def a bad type. Sentry solos.

You were right the first time, bud.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Stoic
Wait, did I actually say that? She is a factor is what I said.

She solo'd the old X-Force and beat Ionic Wonder Man.

All because she was trained by Wolverine cool

Stoic
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Lol seriously? Stoic u made a bad statement. It happens. Create the thread....all three of these street levelers versus 1 dc character and see how often the word stomp gets used.

What's the difference between their stats and Batmans stats? He's never a non factor.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Stoic
What's the difference between their stats and Batmans stats? He's never a non factor.

In a forum match he is...

darthgoober
Originally posted by zopzop
You think? What's stopping her from ending him like Awakened Hydrman did?
https://s8.postimg.cc/jrpo05ljl/image.jpg https://s8.postimg.cc/x8mmj13kx/image.jpg
I could see that working in theory, but Simon's a lot stronger now than he was in the days of his flight belt so I wouldn't call it a lock by any stretch of the imagination.

zopzop
Originally posted by darthgoober
but Simon's a lot stronger now than he was in the days of his flight belt....
Proof please.

darthgoober
Originally posted by zopzop
Proof please.
Check his series from around the time of the Infinity Crusade. He went through this whole ordeal where his powers got tied to his emotional state so that when he was calm he was fairly weak but when he was emotional got a lot stronger(for example he went to do a normal jump when he was all worked up and accidentally jumped several blocks). At the end of the ordeal his powers stabilized at the higher level and he confirmed that he was stronger than he'd ever been. After that he went on to stand toe to toe with Professor Hulk. Then later on he went through the thing with his whole Ion form where his powers got ramped up again and just a few years ago it was confirmed that he was actually stronger than Rulk.

zopzop
Originally posted by darthgoober
Check his series from around the time of the Infinity Crusade. He went through this whole ordeal where his powers got tied to his emotional state so that when he was calm he was fairly weak but when he was emotional got a lot stronger(for example he went to do a normal jump when he was all worked up and accidentally jumped several blocks). At the end of the ordeal his powers stabilized at the higher level and he confirmed that he was stronger than he'd ever been. After that he went on to stand toe to toe with Professor Hulk.

The showing against Prof Hulk was good. I'll give him that. The fight with the Hulk was stopped before either got serious.


Do you have any impressive showings in his ION form? Also Non-LoebForce Rulk is a known jobber. So tooling him is nothing to brag about.

darthgoober
Originally posted by zopzop

The showing against Prof Hulk was good. I'll give him that. The fight with the Hulk was stopped before either got serious.

Oh I know, but I can't see flight belt Simon preforming that well, let along have the issue end questioning which one was stronger. And that came not long after an actual on panel upgrade which to me kinda cements the fact that he was in fact stronger.

Originally posted by zopzop
Do you have any impressive showings in his ION form? Also Non-LoebForce Rulk is a known jobber. So tooling him is nothing to brag about.
Honestly, I kinda lost interest in the character once he got the Ion form. I don't like my characters constantly changing, it rather annoys me to to to relearn the character over and over again. And while I admit that Rulk lost momentum after Loeb, despite his jobbing he was always considered strong as Hell and his encounter with Simon was a definite indication that Simon was outright stronger. It's that acknowledgment that I'm pointing to as evidence of him being stronger than the days when he totally maxed out at 50k tons rather than simply pointing to him scoring a win over the guy. Hell not long aftet his confrontation with Rulk there was a flashback issue where classic Simon strait up got his ass whipped by Grey Hulk(far beneath his showing against the Professor).

zopzop
Originally posted by darthgoober
Honestly, I kinda lost interest in the character once he got the Ion form. I don't like my characters constantly changing, it rather annoys me to to to relearn the character over and over again.
I hear you. You need to check out the last few issues of his original 90s series. It was a sh|tshow. They couldn't keep his powers straight.


Honestly, Grey Hulk had BETTER showings than Prof Hulk. Someone compared/contrasted the two forms and Grey Hulk came out looking MUCH better. Hell, Grey Hulk had some showings that were superior to Savage Hulk. Case in point : Doc Samson vs Savage Hulk was a fight that lasted 6 hours with Samson winning via a sucker punch. Grey Hulk 3 pieced him.

darthgoober
Originally posted by zopzop

I hear you. You need to check out the last few issues of his original 90s series. It was a sh|tshow. They couldn't keep his powers straight.


Honestly, Grey Hulk had BETTER showings than Prof Hulk. Someone compared/contrasted the two forms and Grey Hulk came out looking MUCH better. Hell, Grey Hulk had some showings that were superior to Savage Hulk. Case in point : Doc Samson vs Savage Hulk was a fight that lasted 6 hours with Samson winning via a sucker punch. Grey Hulk 3 pieced him.
Well Grey Hulk held back less cause he was legitimately mean hearted, but that doesn't mean he was actually stronger. Think of it like that scan of Black Adam where they noted that he wasn't the strongest or most powerful on the field but he had the advantage because he wasn't holding back. Professor Hulk was officially stronger than Grey and he does have on panel showings to support that. I always thought things like him standing in a prolonged fight with Power Gem Drax was stupid, but he does have stuff like that to his credit.

But anyway, the fact is that Simon has been upgraded since the days when HM pulled that off. As I said I could see it working in theory(since Mera's better than HM), but his upgrade means that it's in no way a lock.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Yeah, I'm not really sure why that's relevant. Not only is Simon noticeably superior across the board, he's realized that he's a purely ionic being. He doesn't breath, eat, sleep, and can reconstitute himself even.

It was explained during his evolution that he thought he could die, and was human, but it was only his mental state limiting him was it not?

Also, that's a particularly weird era to reference for Simon. It was during that decade that he got a significant push. That momentum faded, but at one point, he would have been flat out stronger than Wonder Woman. Imo, Stern intended him to be stronger than Thor, and tried to portray it as much as he could (There was a time when Thor had serious editorial protection in Marvel with the old guard *Sheds Tear*). He was only one writer, but as the lead for West Coast Avengers, and being Bob f*cking Stern, it had impact. Technically, he should be stronger now, and he has his moments (Rulk, Immortal Hulk etc.) but he was more impressive then.

The Wonder Man in this thread is a very different beast during that Era and Wonder Woman would be stronger similar to the Avengers/JLA crossover. Close, but it's her fight to lose. Still, the team with Ares (Who was Wonder Man level in strength imo during the Dark Avengers push) and Sentry are too much. Reynolds is way too of a wild card, he could freak out, and rip Team 1 in half but even at his stable, he should eliminate everyone besides Wonder Woman very quickly. With Carol and Iron Man running interference, I don't see how Team 1 can win. Way too much fire power.

One Big Mob
Wonder Man sucks

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Wonder Man sucks

You're right. It would even be that close now. Wonder Woman makes him her slave.

One Big Mob
Wonder Man is a pacifist. He can't even get hard now. He wouldn't even be a good sex slave with his floppy energy dick.

Useless character. Best thing he ever did was boost Rogue and Cain his brother

celeyhyga17
Avengers too much.

tkitna
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Wonder Man sucks

He's always been one of my favorite characters for some reason. He does suck though.

zopzop
Originally posted by tkitna
He's always been one of my favorite characters for some reason.
He was a flying brick that was strong but not too overpowered as to steal the show from his teammates. He had/has a very real fear of death that 100% of non-psychotic human beings can relate to. He also fell in love with a woman that was in love with someone else and only saw him as a friend. It made him a very relatable character.

Then Marveled screwed the pooch and wrecked him.


Yup. He's crazy some days and other days he's 100% pacifist. He's an ionic energy being, then he looks completely human. He's all over the place power and personality wise and people just started to lose interest. Blame the phucking @sshole modern writers that ruined such a good character.

Rage.Of.Olympus
I agree with ZoptheTop. Simon was a great character during West Coast....He was the least human of the team with the most power, but felt the most human. It was a unique twist.

leonidas
you're too deep for this forum. thumb up

and simon has always sucked ballz.

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