Citizen Steel vs Weapon H

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Stoic
They fight on Tatooine.

No interference from... well anything, or anyone.

No BFR.

Who wins?

riv6672
CS

Galan007
I'd probably go with CS. Dude's got some pretty dope ass showings.

One Big Mob
I know he has his one big showing, but what else has he done? Haven't read the character since the Gog arc was being released.

Galan007
Read a comic, bruh. thumb up

That said, I know nothing about Weapon H. thumb up

One Big Mob
I can't even read bro. I communicate solely through speech to text and text to speech. You can't copy and paste the words in a comic book so more often than not I have no idea what's going on. Pretty pictures though.

Galan007
thumb up

The scandaddy can't even decipher that much from those booklets. He just flash-scans them for anything green.

carver9
I guess one amazing showing puts you above Elite.

One Big Mob
Everyone gather around and let old Scandad tell you a tale.

Great Scandad, what's your opinion on Weapon H's power? Hulk level?

carver9
I guess Scandaddy is me since the post came right after mine but the answer to your question is, I dont know. The only thing I know is that he is uber strong. He is a mixture of Cho along with other metas but I'm not going to say he is physically equal to Hulk. A degraded version of him was killing Cho.

One Big Mob
You are the Father of Scan. The progenitor of all Scankind. Who else would Scandaddy be?

So would you say Weapon H hovers somewhere around Savage Hulk level physically, with an addition of adamantium claws?

DarkSaint85
Weapon H is how Carver can express his love for Doomsday - the killer of Superman - without admitting he likes a DC character.

carver9
Originally posted by One Big Mob
You are the Father of Scan. The progenitor of all Scankind. Who else would Scandaddy be?

So would you say Weapon H hovers somewhere around Savage Hulk level physically, with an addition of adamantium claws?

He fought evenly with Wendigo and Strange said that this version of Wendigo was the biggest and strongest hes ever seen and Strange said Weapon H was even worse.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
He fought evenly with Wendigo and Strange said that this version of Wendigo was the biggest and strongest hes ever seen and Strange said Weapon H was even worse.

thumb up Plus don't forget he saw Wendigo in the Dark Dimension, when he was amped 1000x.

And he said Wendigo was the biggest and strongest ever thumb up

carver9
See what you're doing, Saint, not feeding into it. He also stomped Man Thing who was amplified off of Groot power as stated here...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/39304943/Screenshot_20180908-133104.jpg.html

And he seem to have the ability to create huge explosions via rage while still retaining his full power.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/39304944/Screenshot_20180908-133126.jpg.html

How did he beat this amplieified character? He beat him with a thunderclap that leveled part of a forest...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/39304945/Screenshot_20180908-133214.jpg.html

DarkSaint85
Wait, what?

Did what I say not happen?

Strange was there in the Dark Dimension, with Wendigo, who was amped 1000x.

And like you said, when he saw Wendigo just before he fought Weapon H, he THEN said that Wendigo was the largest and strongest he had 'ever seen'.

So by this, surely it means Weapon H > Wendigo > Dark Dimension 1000x Wendigo = Dark Dimension 1000x BiBeast >>>Bi Beast = Thor? Who sometimes gave Savage a good fight?

So Weapon H >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Savage Hulk/Classic Thor etc?

You were the one who brought Strange up, no? What does it mean???

celeyhyga17
On paper probably weapn h. I know I've asked this before, but what else had he done?

carver9
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
On paper probably weapn h. I know I've asked this before, but what else had he done?

Kind of forgot. What has Citizen Steel done?

celeyhyga17
Knocked down Gog when no longer encumbered by his metal suit.
The rest is meh...

carver9
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Knocked down Gog when no longer encumbered by his metal suit.
The rest is meh...

So he did this...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/65990/2233818-ff_243_21.jpg

Is this sufficient to even make this a fight?

DarkSaint85
M bodies are not quite the same.....lol

Go Scandaddy!

One Big Mob
"And right at that very second for no particular reason, Bran balled his fists up in anger."

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by carver9
So he did this...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/65990/2233818-ff_243_21.jpg

Is this sufficient to even make this a fight?
Well.. Not quite like that. There was more to it, but I guess yeah.. *shrug*

Khazra Reborn
Is Weapon H a shit Doomsday rip off, that's what he looks like

Putinbot1
Weapon H is that rare thing a fun amalgam, really enjoying his solo comic.

carver9
Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
Is Weapon H a shit Doomsday rip off, that's what he looks like

Oh god... the Hulk hater is back.

Galan007
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Knocked down Gog when no longer encumbered by his metal suit.
The rest is meh... That same Gog had previously been soaking attacks from the combined JSA(which included KC Supes, Alan Scott, Thunderbolt, etc. etc.)... Then CS waltzes over and two-shots him. The impressiveness of that feat cannot be overstated, and I'm certain that Weapon H hasn't a feat that even remotely approaches that.

CS also tanked punches from herald Gog(who was stomping the collective JSA as well), and then slapped him aside. With his suit on.

CS was also having fun throwing blows with Grundy(back when Grundy was uber), because he was just looking for someone that he could hit hard. With his suit on.

CS was also completely unscathed after Power Girl hit him "as hard as she possibly could"... And that was at a time when PG was pretty haxx in her own right.

beatboks
Originally posted by carver9
I guess one amazing showing puts you above Elite.

That one amazing showingnis only achieved because he tears of his suit. A suit that is made to retrain and temper his strength so he doesnt tear arms off by trying to shake hands. It really shouldnt be considered his norm as he bormally wears the suit.


On a side note, I'd say after the gog ark the suit sorta fails in its role. If he can tear it off that easily how much does it really restrain him???

carver9
Originally posted by beatboks
That one amazing showingnis only achieved because he tears of his suit. A suit that is made to retrain and temper his strength so he doesnt tear arms off by trying to shake hands. It really shouldnt be considered his norm as he bormally wears the suit.


On a side note, I'd say after the gog ark the suit sorta fails in its role. If he can tear it off that easily how much does it really restrain him???

IMO, a single story doesnt justify a character tiering and the only way he can win this is if he could withstand adamantium claws from a being that have Hulk like strength. I doubt he could. Weapon H wins this every single time. Hes fast enough to block bullets and strong enough to match Hulk. Also, one of his punches were described as World Breaking. He heals nigh instantly. I see no way he could lose this.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
IMO, a single story doesnt justify a character tiering and the only way he can win this is if he could withstand adamantium claws from a being that have Hulk like strength. I doubt he could. Weapon H wins this every single time. Hes fast enough to block bullets and strong enough to match Hulk. Also, one of his punches were described as World Breaking. He heals nigh instantly. I see no way he could lose this.

How many storylines has Weapon H had???

beatboks
Originally posted by carver9
IMO, a single story doesnt justify a character tiering and the only way he can win this is if he could withstand adamantium claws from a being that have Hulk like strength. I doubt he could. Weapon H wins this every single time. Hes fast enough to block bullets and strong enough to match Hulk. Also, one of his punches were described as World Breaking. He heals nigh instantly. I see no way he could lose this.

I think you completely missed my point. In essense I was agreeing with you (tangentially)

the single story line is of an amp condition much like a sun dipped Superman. We wouldn't apply that to a normal Superman battle but it seems to be the norm in a citizen steel battle to accept his Gog showing as standard.

His suit was made from the same strength alloy that protects our spacecraft from reentry and from orbital landings just to contain and restrain his strength so that it doesn't kill someone from the smallest action. That fact 1 makes a statement as to what his strength is like with the suit off. He can still walk foght and move said suit just slow.

So whilst we have a standard to say yes he is as durable as all hell, we shouldn't adopt the torn off suit showing as his strength when in normal battles he would be wearing the suit.

If the op hasn't stated citizen steel with suit torn off the gog showing shouldn't apply. instead what we should see is the fact that he has to have opponents thrown to him by team mates because he's so slow getting to the battle he misses it before his teammates finish it if they dont (early all star JSA issues).

i doubt very much that the admantium claws are doing any damage to him, but I also doubt very much that with steel's suited speed he is even going to make a connection with any punch

DarkSaint85
Would those claws not tear the suit off?

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Galan007
That same Gog had previously been soaking attacks from the combined JSA(which included KC Supes, Alan Scott, Thunderbolt, etc. etc.)... Then CS waltzes over and two-shots him. The impressiveness of that feat cannot be overstated, and I'm certain that Weapon H hasn't a feat that even remotely approaches that.

CS also tanked punches from herald Gog(who was stomping the collective JSA as well), and then slapped him aside. With his suit on.

CS was also having fun throwing blows with Grundy(back when Grundy was uber), because he was just looking for someone that he could hit hard. With his suit on.

CS was also completely unscathed after Power Girl hit him "as hard as she possibly could"... And that was at a time when PG was pretty haxx in her own right.
First one is gud hence why I mentioned it(knocking him down). Iirc the team resumed their gang up on Gog and gog/magog cut his head off right after.

The rest don't really pop off the page.

Galan007
Originally posted by beatboks
the single story line is of an amp condition much like a sun dipped Superman. We wouldn't apply that to a normal Superman battle but it seems to be the norm in a citizen steel battle to accept his Gog showing as standard. This is a really poor analogy, tbh.

When CS removes his suit(which he can do at ANY time, mind you), it simply allows him to utilize his full strength. That is hardly the same as Superman sundipping. Really hope I don't have to explain why...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
First one is gud hence why I mentioned it(knocking him down). Iirc the team resumed their gang up on Gog and gog/magog cut his head off right after.

The rest don't really pop off the page. The other showings are more than enough to show us that CS still has top-tier strength/durability, even with his suit on.

Downing Gog with 2 strikes shows us what he can do at full strength... And it is so far beyond anything Weapon H has done that it's ridiculous.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How many storylines has Weapon H had???

6

DarkSaint85
Not showings. Storylines.

But if is IS 6, what are they (I only know one, so am willing to check them out).

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not showings. Storylines.

But if is IS 6, what are they (I only know one, so am willing to check them out).

Weapon H #1 - introduction of Wendigo
Weapon H #2 - fight and Kill the Wendigo
Weapon H #3 - he finds out about the guy who is trying to capture him and fight brood creatures. Introduction of Manthing
Weapon H #4 - fight manthing and gets captured.
Weapon H #5 - mert the person who has been trying to capture him face to face and team up with Manthing and a brood.
Weapon H #6 - Captain America shows up, they fight for a little bit and team up to take out magical creatures.

You're the comic reader and I'm the person that looks over pretty pictures. You shouldve known this.

DarkSaint85
Lol so one storyline.

Thanks thumb up

carver9
Aaahhhh, gotcha. Didnt he show up in a Old Man Logan comic as well (or was that a Cho story)?

One Big Mob
Dirtstain hates anything new and hip from Marvel. He'd be arguing CS beats WBH too as long as Carver said Hulk would win.

-K-M-
Originally posted by carver9
Aaahhhh, gotcha. Didnt he show up in a Old Man Logan comic as well (or was that a Cho story)?

Weapon X 6-11 & 18, TA Hulk 21-22

Sin I AM
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not showings. Storylines.

But if is IS 6, what are they (I only know one, so am willing to check them out).

He's been in two iirc

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
You're the comic reader and I'm the person that looks over pretty pictures. You shouldve known this. Savage.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Galan007

The other showings are more than enough to show us that CS still has top-tier strength/durability, even with his suit on.

Downing Gog with 2 strikes shows us what he can do at full strength... And it is so far beyond anything Weapon H has done that it's ridiculous.
He is def class 100. To me not on the Superman, Orion, Shazam, etc., tier. I have him somewhere below Wondy and PG strengthwise.. His durability is up there. Part of his seemingly amazing durability comes from the fact that he doesn't feel pain. That could also be a detriment.

Downing gog is up there and is beyond what weap H has done, but i think it's the outlier of his showings. Still his feat nonetheless.

Regards to the suit, he's not likely to take it off in a fight. It's more than likely to be removed by Weapon H's claws if anything.

He's also depicted as slow and plodding at times due to his suit. He's like a walking paperweight with some juggy like qualities.

carver9
Think Weapon H have some of Wolverine qualities when it comes to speed. Speed blitzing, slapping bullets out of the air, etc...

Has anyone posted proof showing CS can survive Adamatium claws swung by elite strength?

Parmaniac
Originally posted by carver9
Think Weapon H have some of Wolverine qualities when it comes to speed. Speed blitzing, slapping bullets out of the air, etc... Actually shown?

Galan007
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He is def class 100. To me not on the Superman, Orion, Shazam, etc., tier. I have him somewhere below Wondy and PG strengthwise.. His durability is up there. Part of his seemingly amazing durability comes from the fact that he doesn't feel pain. That could also be a detriment. With the suit on, his brute strength is in the same ballpark as Superman(albeit slightly weaker.) With the suit off, he's well above that. Imo.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Downing gog is up there and is beyond what weap H has done, but i think it's the outlier of his showings. Still his feat nonetheless. It's not an outlier. It's actually his only all-out/non-suited showing... It is literally *all* we have to go by. /shrug

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Regards to the suit, he's not likely to take it off in a fight. It's more than likely to be removed by Weapon H's claws if anything. Wholly dependent on the threat. If CS deems the threat strong enough, he will doff the suit(like he did against Gog after the JSA's best efforts had failed to drop him.) Regardless, if WH removes it for him, we'd get the same result either way.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He's also depicted as slow and plodding at times due to his suit. He's like a walking paperweight with some juggy like qualities. Indeed. CS definitely isn't a speedster.

That said, I've seen nothing from WH that makes me believe that he could harm CS at all(I'm not of the opinion that his claws can override CS's durability, which is one of the best in DC.) Like most brick fights, this would likely turn into a slugfest anyway(see WH's fights with Wendingo and Man-Thing.) /shrug

Prof. T.C McAbe
Originally posted by carver9
Think Weapon H have some of Wolverine qualities when it comes to speed. Speed blitzing, slapping bullets out of the air, etc...

Has anyone posted proof showing CS can survive Adamatium claws swung by elite strength?
That would be the deciding factor to me. CS and Weapon Hulk or any other Class 100 hero should be roughly equals in strength. The invulnerability, durability should be the deciding factor. CS can hurt Weapon H most likely, but could he dish out enough damage to counter his HF? I somehow doubt it. On the other hand, could Weapon H even hurt CS? Adamantium claws paired with Hulks strength should be able to overcome CS invulnerability, me thinks. Which means Weapon H has a better chance to win.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
That would be the deciding factor to me. CS and Weapon Hulk or any other Class 100 hero should be roughly equals in strength. The invulnerability, durability should be the deciding factor. CS can hurt Weapon H most likely, but could he dish out enough damage to counter his HF? I somehow doubt it. On the other hand, could Weapon H even hurt CS? Adamantium claws paired with Hulks strength should be able to overcome CS invulnerability, me thinks. Which means Weapon H has a better chance to win. I'm of the same thought process.

It SHOULD be an autowin with Hulk strength adamantium. We've all seen what Carv Howlett has carved up. Should... lots of shoulds with this character.

I'm waiting until he gets fleshed out more and yes, shows more limitations before I say anything really carv and dry about him. Right now he has huge potential to murder so many characters.

Galan007
Agreed.

Right now some people are wanking WH like LOM wanked Onslaught: "Z0MG!!! Hez gawt duh full powa of Juggernaut+Franklin+Xavier+Magz. Hims am univerzal!!!"

If WH ends up racking up some uber feats, my opinion here may change. As of now, however, I do not at all see how he can beat CS.

StyleTime
Originally posted by -K-M-
Weapon X 6-11 & 18, TA Hulk 21-22
thumb up

He was featured in Weapon X for a little bit, ending with him trashing their lineup.

The fight basically depends on how much credit you give Weapon H's on paper stats. He's got adamantium claws, a good healing factor, and Hulk-like super strength. Considering the showings from vastly weaker characters with adamantium weapons, it's totally possible he'd pierce even Citizen Steel's durability.

But, again, that's on paper.

Damborgson
Originally posted by Galan007
Right now some people are wanking WH like LOM wanked Onslaught: "Z0MG!!! Hez gawt duh full powa of Juggernaut+Franklin+Xavier+Magz. Hims am univerzal!!!"


When has that way of typing ever been funny ?

From a grown man, no less. Lol.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by StyleTime
thumb up

He was featured in Weapon X for a little bit, ending with him trashing their lineup.

The fight basically depends on how much credit you give Weapon H's on paper stats. He's got adamantium claws, a good healing factor, and Hulk-like super strength. Considering the showings from vastly weaker characters with adamantium weapons, it's totally possible he'd pierce even Citizen Steel's durability.

But, again, that's on paper. Comics are printed on paper

carver9
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Actually shown?

Everything I said was shown.

DarkSaint85
As was mine thumb up

Putinbot1
Originally posted by carver9
Weapon H #1 - introduction of Wendigo
Weapon H #2 - fight and Kill the Wendigo
Weapon H #3 - he finds out about the guy who is trying to capture him and fight brood creatures. Introduction of Manthing
Weapon H #4 - fight manthing and gets captured.
Weapon H #5 - mert the person who has been trying to capture him face to face and team up with Manthing and a brood.
Weapon H #6 - Captain America shows up, they fight for a little bit and team up to take out magical creatures.

You're the comic reader and I'm the person that looks over pretty pictures. You shouldve known this. he was in weapon x too

beatboks
Originally posted by Galan007
This is a really poor analogy, tbh.
.

Not wearing the suit isnt a standard condition. In the one instance of him soing so it was a couple issues into a story aek. Why should we assume its a given for him to use. CS has appeared in over 100 issues and removed the suit once. He goes to that as often as Thor uses god blast and we rarely tall god blast in forums

carver9
Originally posted by beatboks
Not wearing the suit isnt a standard condition. In the one instance of him soing so it was a couple issues into a story aek. Why should we assume its a given for him to use. CS has appeared in over 100 issues and removed the suit once. He goes to that as often as Thor uses god blast and we rarely tall god blast in forums

thumb up

beatboks
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
That would be the deciding factor to me. CS and Weapon Hulk or any other Class 100 hero should be roughly equals in strength. The invulnerability, durability should be the deciding factor. CS can hurt Weapon H most likely, but could he dish out enough damage to counter his HF? I somehow doubt it. On the other hand, could Weapon H even hurt CS? Adamantium claws paired with Hulks strength should be able to overcome CS invulnerability, me thinks. Which means Weapon H has a better chance to win.

You have to remember Steel is made of that organic steel all tje way through. Its not JUST getting through.

Alao he regenerates. Part of him becoming Steel had an amputated leg regrow due to the steel. The extent of his regen has never been explored since hes never been damaged.

Honestly I see this as a stalemate with neither able to sufficiently damage the other

Galan007
Originally posted by beatboks
Not wearing the suit isnt a standard condition. In the one instance of him soing so it was a couple issues into a story aek. Why should we assume its a given for him to use. CS has appeared in over 100 issues and removed the suit once. He goes to that as often as Thor uses god blast and we rarely tall god blast in forums You compared CS removing his suit, to Superman sundipping. That is a very poor analogy, and in no way/shape/form are those examples similar.

As mentioned, even if you want to assume that CS is going to go full-retard in a forum battle and neuter his strength/movement by keeping his suit on, a few slashy-slashes from WH would peel off the majority of his suit anyway. So either way, it's likely coming off. /shrug



...And the Godblast has come up in most 'classic' Thor threads, btw.

Putinbot1
Hulkverine is also one of the best Martial Artists in Marvel, he is better than Logan... He even knows styles from other planets. He is Hulk level strength and regen, with Adamantium bones and claws, wolverines senses and almost Shang Chi level Martial Arts Skills and a top-grade tactician/strategist. He is hilariously awesome. When he takes apart Weapon X, they are like Children to him, even old man Logan.

As he Hulks and his strength goes up, he remains in control... He retains his skills and his dynamic strength is just like the Hulks, he was chosen because of his skillset. He was the best and most brutal mercenary alive.

He is like Cap or Slade etc with that power set.

StyleTime
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Comics are printed on paper
True, but some digital comics aren't.

Putinbot1
Originally posted by StyleTime
True, but some digital comics aren't. Um, "printed". ST, Bran is talking about printing not reading on a VDU.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by StyleTime
True, but some digital comics aren't. Digital comics aren't even real

Putinbot1
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Digital comics aren't even real True, they are virtual. They are not Printed unless you print them on to paper.

One Big Mob
I'd go so far as to say no purely digital comic from the big evil duo of DC and Marvel is any good.

You find me a comic that has never been printed on paper from those companies and it's probably pure trash

Putinbot1
Originally posted by One Big Mob
I'd go so far as to say no purely digital comic from the big evil duo of DC and Marvel is any good.

You find me a comic that has never been printed on paper from those companies and it's probably pure trash Not going to disagree, because you are probably right on that. thumb up

beatboks
Originally posted by Galan007
You compared CS removing his suit, to Superman sundipping. That is a very poor analogy, and in no way/shape/form are those examples similar.

As mentioned, even if you want to assume that CS is going to go full-retard in a forum battle and neuter his strength/movement by keeping his suit on, a few slashy-slashes from WH would peel off the majority of his suit anyway. So either way, it's likely coming off. /shrug



...And the Godblast has come up in most 'classic' Thor threads, btw.

I compared it because like sun dipping it is a specific condition that alters the conditions of Battle. he doesn't at default fight with a suit off. the suit was not torn off when he fought black lantern Superman wasn't torn off when he fought Solomon Grundy wasn't turn off when he fought hany of other opponents in his weight class. Yet it is accepted in almost every single thread about citizen Steel that he fights with it off why?

If the answer is going to be CIS and we don't use it the problem is it's cis. he wears the suit to protect those he loves from himself to protect the innocent that's why he doesn't turn it off so readily

Faceless808
Originally posted by beatboks
I compared it because like sun dipping it is a specific condition that alters the conditions of Battle. he doesn't at default fight with a suit off. the suit was not torn off when he fought black lantern Superman wasn't torn off when he fought Solomon Grundy wasn't turn off when he fought hany of other opponents in his weight class. Yet it is accepted in almost every single thread about citizen Steel that he fights with it off why?

If the answer is going to be CIS and we don't use it the problem is it's cis. he wears the suit to protect those he loves from himself to protect the innocent that's why he doesn't turn it off so readily


Wouldn't CS with out his suit be more akin to Superman NOT holding back? The power is already in him, so it's not an amp, IMO. SM holds back for the same reasons.

beatboks
Originally posted by Faceless808
Wouldn't CS with out his suit be more akin to Superman NOT holding back? The power is already in him, so it's not an amp, IMO. SM holds back for the same reasons.

Thats a valid point. Hadnt looked at it that way.

Faceless808
Originally posted by beatboks
Thats a valid point. Hadnt looked at it that way.

thumb up smile

NemeBro
Originally posted by beatboks

If the answer is going to be CIS and we don't use it the problem is it's cis. he wears the suit to protect those he loves from himself to protect the innocent that's why he doesn't turn it off so readily

Originally posted by Stoic
No interference from... well anything, or anyone.

Given the stips it would seem there is no innocents his full might could threaten. I'll also say that, even though he hasn't clarified, Stoic's arguments for WWH busting out WBH strength in threads is pretty much identical to this scenario. In a versus threads Huc's full strength isn't threatening to harm innocents, so he can just bust it out on the get-go.

DarkSaint85
Plus he's.... fighting a guy with claws. That cut through anything.

As the fight goes on, that suit is getting ripped to ribbons anyway.

Galan007
thumb up

The suit is coming off anyway you slice it.

carver9
So Citizen Steel can withstand adamantium claws that is being swung by a character with Hulk like strength? No top tier should be able to survive a single swipe, let alone CS. He dies here every single time. This IS the definition of a non fight. You all are mentioning the suit getting cut up... NO, he will get ripped in half, EASILY.

DarkSaint85
But he's made of metal.

Noone can rip metal.

Galan007
"No one can possibly survive said slashy-slash!!! Let alone one of the most durable characters in DC, who also has a HF to boot!!!"

Lol. This is carver9.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But he's made of metal.

Noone can rip metal.

Slash clean through him. Call it a RIP, cut, jab, stab. It will happen.

DarkSaint85
But you're not basing that on combat showings. You're just crossing showings over, which is something you always argues against (rightly, btw).

We know what WOLVERINE can do. We know what HULK can do. But you're sharing feats here: Wolverine, who is human ish level in strength, can Pierce heralds like Gladiator etc so Weapon H, packing the same blades but longer, with the Hulk's strength behind, should do even better.

But we don't have those showings yet.

carver9
Edit... I can not mistreat Galan. Hes my bugga boo.

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But you're not basing that on combat showings. You're just crossing showings over, which is something you always argues against (rightly, btw).

We know what WOLVERINE can do. We know what HULK can do. But you're sharing feats here: Wolverine, who is human ish level in strength, can Pierce heralds like Gladiator etc so Weapon H, packing the same blades but longer, with the Hulk's strength behind, should do even better.

But we don't have those showings yet.

When did I even give him any of Hulks fts? His healing factor has been displayed and his strength has been displayed as well.

Wait a minute, are you saying he cant slash Heralds because he havent? Do you think he can cut Morlun?

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
Corrected. Easy there, big guy... Sun's getting real low.

-K-M-
We sure steel can tAnk an adamantium claw strike? For sure it would rip the suit off and ultimately make him stronger but will his actual durability protect him?

But becomes tricky as haven’t seen weapon h cut much either

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
When did I even give him any of Hulks fts? His healing factor has been displayed and his strength has been displayed as well.

Wait a minute, are you saying he cant slash Heralds because he havent? Do you think he can cut Morlun?

So answering a question with another question. Classic Carver.

You go by combat showings. Who is the most durable person he has cut?

Not talking about HFs. Durability. Toughness. Who?

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by -K-M-
We sure steel can tAnk an adamantium claw strike? For sure it would rip the suit off and ultimately make him stronger but will his actual durability protect him?

Tank, maybe, maybe not.

He also has a HF. Regrew his leg after it had been amputated, for example (amputated when he was human btw).

"Id"
Originally posted by Galan007


CS was also completely unscathed after Power Girl hit him "as hard as she possibly could"... And that was at a time when PG was pretty haxx in her own right.
And we can confirm this cus Power Girl tatas where at their biggest.

Putinbot1
Weapon H is also going to have Domino and Lady Deathstrike powers, as well as Proudstar... he is also in normal form more skilled than the punished perhaps even Shang Chi level.

DarkSaint85
Yeah, I mean, if we take all the things into account, he should be trans, easily, lol.

Domino's luck powers,plus weaponry that allows Logan to hurt heralds (he WAS created to fight superhumans), plus Hulk's amping and strength, plus Weapon X's HFs all stacked on top of each other....

Put it this way. He'd be a no brainier pick for a BZ. But when it came to actually convincing judges, with showings....it'll be much much harder.

carver9
Dark, you're all over the place. One day you're debating powerset and another day you're ignoring it (because its Marvel and Hulk). Be consistent please, it isnt hard. Anyways, the showings are there, it is just being ignored. He stomps this with no effort at all. Does he have adamantium claws, yes. Does he have elite strength, yes, does he have speed, yes. Does he have a healing factor, yes. Have he shown he can take out Herald level beings? Yes. Stomps with ease. Dark is just debating this to try and prove a point to me over something I previously said or he is just debating because it's a DC character vs a Marvel character. I honestly think it's both.

StyleTime
Originally posted by One Big Mob
I'd go so far as to say no purely digital comic from the big evil duo of DC and Marvel is any good.

You find me a comic that has never been printed on paper from those companies and it's probably pure trash
True. The ones I've seen are about as good/bad as the average print run. Al Ewing being Al Ewing basically. Average runs from Deadpool, Iron Man, and such. It's still a young thing though. I imagine digital only will be standard at some point, and we'll get to see better talent on it. They had Mark Waid on the AvX digital issues, but AvX has a low bar in general...

There are the recent batch of tv Marvel ongoings. Luke, Jessica and Danny. I haven't checked them out yet though.

I will welcome the digital turnover though. I stopped giving a shit about paper comics/novels/etc years ago.

One Big Mob
Netflix Marvel is really the only good thing Marvel has going for it right now. Better than the movies. Better than the comics.

Originally posted by carver9
Dark, you're all over the place. One day you're debating powerset and another day you're ignoring it (because its Marvel and Hulk). Be consistent please, it isnt hard. Anyways, the showings are there, it is just being ignored. He stomps this with no effort at all. Does he have adamantium claws, yes. Does he have elite strength, yes, does he have speed, yes. Does he have a healing factor, yes. Have he shown he can take out Herald level beings? Yes. Stomps with ease. Dark is just debating this to try and prove a point to me over something I previously said or he is just debating because it's a DC character vs a Marvel character. I honestly think it's both. When it comes to Flash, Darksaint is the powerset king.

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
Dark, you're all over the place. One day you're debating powerset and another day you're ignoring it (because its Marvel and Hulk). Be consistent please, it isnt hard. Anyways, the showings are there, it is just being ignored. He stomps this with no effort at all. Does he have adamantium claws, yes. Does he have elite strength, yes, does he have speed, yes. Does he have a healing factor, yes. Have he shown he can take out Herald level beings? Yes. Stomps with ease. Dark is just debating this to try and prove a point to me over something I previously said or he is just debating because it's a DC character vs a Marvel character. I honestly think it's both. "DS is just being a big dummy and using my own inconsistent non-logic and goalpost movery against me!!! F*ck that DC loving Asian!!!!"

Lol. This is carver9.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Dark, you're all over the place. One day you're debating powerset and another day you're ignoring it (because its Marvel and Hulk). Be consistent please, it isnt hard. Anyways, the showings are there, it is just being ignored. He stomps this with no effort at all. Does he have adamantium claws, yes. Does he have elite strength, yes, does he have speed, yes. Does he have a healing factor, yes. Have he shown he can take out Herald level beings? Yes. Stomps with ease. Dark is just debating this to try and prove a point to me over something I previously said or he is just debating because it's a DC character vs a Marvel character. I honestly think it's both.

Lollers.

At least you recognise the first point.

StyleTime
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Netflix Marvel is really the only good thing Marvel has going for it right now. Better than the movies. Better than the comics.

When it comes to Flash, Darksaint is the powerset king.
I meant they are doing digital only comics("digital originals"wink for the shows, although now it seems like it's actually 616? I did like 2 minutes of research on it and don't recognize the writers at all.

Maybe one of 'em will surprise us.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Galan007
With the suit on, his brute strength is in the same ballpark as Superman(albeit slightly weaker.) With the suit off, he's well above that. Imo.

It's not an outlier. It's actually his only all-out/non-suited showing... It is literally *all* we have to go by. /shrug
Well above Superman?! He would get destroyed in feats.

I'm not ready to to put him well above the likes of Superman. Same reason I wouldn't put fem Quasar above Jane Thor, Blue Marvel, Binary, and every other heavy hitter in Secret Empire. Probably a better example is Vision downing classic Nefaria when Thor, Wonder Man, Iron Man, and the rest staggered or briefly knocked him down at best. I wouldnt put Viz well above those 3. Sometimes a hero gets the spotlight and outshines others for some reason or other.

There was one other time that I recall when his suit was off. Some golems where overwhelming him until they ripped his suit off. He was able to push them off soon after.

Originally posted by Galan007

Wholly dependent on the threat. If CS deems the threat strong enough, he will doff the suit(like he did against Gog after the JSA's best efforts had failed to drop him.) Regardless, if WH removes it for him, we'd get the same result either way.

Indeed. CS definitely isn't a speedster.

That said, I've seen nothing from WH that makes me believe that he could harm CS at all(I'm not of the opinion that his claws can override CS's durability, which is one of the best in DC.) Like most brick fights, this would likely turn into a slugfest anyway(see WH's fights with Wendingo and Man-Thing.) /shrug
I disagree. Highly doubtful he would take his suit off on purpose especially in a random encounter. At least that's what i think this is. I agree with Weap H most likely cutting his suit off as I've mentioned before for obvious reasons.

Forget not being a speedster. I believe it's been referenced on more than one occasion that he's slow and plodding due to the suit.

True. Maybe CS's durability is such that it will bypass Weap H's claws. Maybe.. On paper which I've mentioned before i think it has a good chance. Weap H should at least be able to ko him? Hulk like strength on paper should go a long way. Plus he has a couple of named opponents he's downed like amped Wendigo and Man-Thing w/Groot upgrade. He has that going for him as opposed to CS. CS has bean beaten by Mammoth and was getting destroyed by an alien that PG seemed to have beaten off-panel. Two of them for that matter.

Senor Cage
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Well above Superman?! He would get destroyed in feats.

I'm not ready to to put him well above the likes of Superman. Same reason I wouldn't put fem Quasar above Jane Thor, Blue Marvel, Binary, and every other heavy hitter in Secret Empire. Probably a better example is Vision downing classic Nefaria when Thor, Wonder Man, Iron Man, and the rest staggered or briefly knocked him down at best. I wouldnt put Viz well above those 3. Sometimes a hero gets the spotlight and outshines others for some reason or other.

There was one other time that I recall when his suit was off. Some golems where overwhelming him until they ripped his suit off. He was able to push them off soon after.


I disagree. Highly doubtful he would take his suit off on purpose especially in a random encounter. At least that's what i think this is. I agree with Weap H most likely cutting his suit off as I've mentioned before for obvious reasons.

Forget not being a speedster. I believe it's been referenced on more than one occasion that he's slow and plodding due to the suit.

True. Maybe CS's durability is such that it will bypass Weap H's claws. Maybe.. On paper which I've mentioned before i think it has a good chance. Weap H should at least be able to ko him? Hulk like strength on paper should go a long way. Plus he has a couple of named opponents he's downed like amped Wendigo and Man-Thing w/Groot upgrade. He has that going for him as opposed to CS. CS has bean beaten by Mammoth and was getting destroyed by an alien that PG seemed to have beaten off-panel. Two of them for that matter.

Steel did put Gog down on his ass, and not even KC Superman could do that. And KC Superman>>>Regular Superman.

Galan007
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Well above Superman?! He would get destroyed in feats. I'm not saying that CS > Superman in a forum battle. Supes is far too fast/versatile for CS's strength to ever threaten him.

That said, if this turned into a pure '*** for tat' slugfest, we have every reason to believe an all-out/unsuited CS is considerably above Superman's tier. I know you have seen these scans, but I'm going to post them again for emphasis...

The best efforts of the COMBINED JSA(which included an uber roster consisting of KC Superman + Alan Scott + Thunderbolt + Starman + Power Girl etc. etc. etc.) were only sufficient to make Gog stumble a bit:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787527_9253617.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787552_2663275.jpg

And again:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787557_4364224.jpg


Then CS waltzes up, removes his suit, and does in a mere two punches what the cumulative JSA were unable to do, and actually topple Gog:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787558_3751185.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787568_524980.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787589_423150.jpg


Truly unreal.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Same reason I wouldn't put fem Quasar above Jane Thor, Blue Marvel, Binary, and every other heavy hitter in Secret Empire. Probably a better example is Vision downing classic Nefaria when Thor, Wonder Man, Iron Man, and the rest staggered or briefly knocked him down at best. I wouldnt put Viz well above those 3. Sometimes a hero gets the spotlight and outshines others for some reason or other. Difference is, all the characters you mentioned have other feats to counterbalance their highs. CS does not. That is literally his only quantifiable all-out/suit-removed showing. Therefore it is the rule; not the exception.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I disagree. Highly doubtful he would take his suit off on purpose especially in a random encounter. At least that's what i think this is. I agree with Weap H most likely cutting his suit off as I've mentioned before for obvious reasons. Well, the stips of this thread imply there are no external variables inhibiting the combatants:
Originally posted by Stoic
No interference from... well anything, or anyone.
But regardless, the suit is most definitely coming off here in *some* manner -- if CS doesn't remove it himself, WH will do it for him. Seems like we agree there. thumb up

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
True. Maybe CS's durability is such that it will bypass Weap H's claws. I think so, primarily because I believe CS has arguably the best physical durability in DC. That's his entire gimmick.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
and was getting destroyed by an alien that PG seemed to have beaten off-panel. Two of them for that matter. You've mentioned this before. It is flagrantly inconsistent PIS and you know it.

The alien evidently 'beat' CS via some sort of esoteric weakening effect from the purple core they were in:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39318428_JSA_All-Stars_013-009.jpg
"Your strength is waning, human..." And that would explain why the rest of the JSA were sidelined there as well -- it was weakening them all.


A bit later(when the above purple core was destroyed), PG evidently beat a few of those same no-name aliens easily:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39318429_JSA_All-Stars_013-017.jpg


Yet in the very next issue(literally), CS was completely unaffected by PG's "hardest possible punch":
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39318430_JSA_All-Stars_014-011.jpg

So clearly all-out PG-level strength is only sufficient to knock CS down, but can cause him absolutely NO damage whatsoever(he can't even feel it)... Yet I'm to believe the aliens PG overpowered were legitimately above CS? Yeah, no.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Galan007
I'm not saying that CS > Superman in a forum battle. Supes is far too fast/versatile for CS's strength to ever threaten him.

That said, if this turned into a pure '*** for tat' slugfest, we have every reason to believe an all-out/unsuited CS is considerably above Superman's tier. I know you have seen these scans, but I'm going to post them again for emphasis...

The best efforts of the COMBINED JSA(which included an uber roster consisting of KC Superman + Alan Scott + Thunderbolt + Starman + Power Girl etc. etc. etc.) were only sufficient to make Gog stumble a bit:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787527_9253617.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787552_2663275.jpg

And again:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787557_4364224.jpg


Then CS waltzes up, removes his suit, and does in a mere two punches what the cumulative JSA were unable to do, and actually topple Gog:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787558_3751185.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787568_524980.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787589_423150.jpg


Truly unreal.
It was a very good feat. I agree. I think you're giving him too much credit with this one showing. But to say that feat puts an unsuited CS well above Superman is too far. By feats alone CS would get embarrassed by Superman here. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you would even give CS a win in a slugfest against HP/DD with the way you describe this feat.



Originally posted by Galan007

Difference is, all the characters you mentioned have other feats to counterbalance their highs. CS does not. That is literally his only quantifiable all-out/suit-removed showing. Therefore it is the rule; not the exception.

Well, the stips of this thread imply there are no external variables inhibiting the combatants:

But regardless, the suit is most definitely coming off here in *some* manner -- if CS doesn't remove it himself, WH will do it for him. Seems like we agree there. thumb up

I think so, primarily because I believe CS has arguably the best physical durability in DC. That's his entire gimmick.

I've mentioned Mammoth dominating him on panel. The alien(more on that) of course too was "killing him". For a guy who's supposedly "well above Superman", it sure does not look like he dominates on every occasion. Far from it to be exact. I mean who has he beaten on panel worth of note? I think he lacks the showing to put him up there with the best.

No external variables doesn't mean he'll purposely rip his suit open to win. Not really his standard go to move.
But I agree the suit has a good chance of being removed here. Not by him however.


Originally posted by Galan007

You've mentioned this before. It is flagrantly inconsistent PIS and you know it.

The alien evidently 'beat' CS via some sort of esoteric weakening effect from the purple core they were in:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39318428_JSA_All-Stars_013-009.jpg
"Your strength is waning, human..." And that would explain why the rest of the JSA were sidelined there as well -- it was weakening them all.


A bit later(when the above purple core was destroyed), PG evidently beat a few of those same no-name aliens easily:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39318429_JSA_All-Stars_013-017.jpg
Not so for reasons I've mentioned earlier. He's not showing up on a majority of his appearances as a world beater. He also does not remove his suit to go into world beater mode on most occasions. In fact basically never except for gog showing.

Wait a sec. How could it be evident that the "purple core" was weakening him? I mean it could be and I admit that the setting was a bit ambiguous, but there was nothing concrete about the showing where he was being weakened by what you claimed. If that "purple" thing you say was giving such an effect, then everyone within its vicinity would be subject to the effect including the aliens. Unless of course there's something there which tells us they weren't affected as well. The only thing unambiguous there was the fact that he was getting dominated by the alien. Something of note from this scene is an alien that looks to be tugging at pg's cape.

There was a scene pages earlier where PG mentioned that containing a core breach took a lot out of her, but that was in a totally different setting and a totally different planet(qorath). This scene you posted was in xanthraxis. And even then nothing on panel was shown as to how that transpired.

And the scene with pg handling two of the aliens I stated that she may have beat them off panel by the way she has them. Honestly I may have missed something, but how did you come about to the conclusion that the purple core was destroyed?
The reason I didn't extract much from the scene is because there is no actual proof as to how you came about to your conclusions. I'm simply going by what was shown.

Originally posted by Galan007

Yet in the very next issue(literally), CS was completely unaffected by PG's "hardest possible punch":
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39318430_JSA_All-Stars_014-011.jpg


So clearly all-out PG-level strength is only sufficient to knock CS down, but can cause him absolutely NO damage whatsoever(he can't even feel it)... Yet I'm to believe the aliens PG overpowered were legitimately above CS? Yeah, no.
Completely unaffected? He was literally thrown for a loop. Plus I think you're giving to much credence to a training session. It's a gud feat, but not be all end all in terms of PG showing her best punch. I would give her more credit than that.

And since you mentioned PG, theres also that time Black Lantern Kal dismissed CS like nothing when compared to PG. She gave him a much better go than he ever did. He even remarked at how he "could" give her a run for her money which tells me that he may or may not be around her level at best... Certainly not one of the upper echelon heralds.

I'm sure someone has those scans handy.

Prof. T.C McAbe
I remember this CS being koed, not sure who it was, Prime I think

xJLxKing
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It was a very good feat. I agree. I think you're giving him too much credit with this one showing. But to say that feat puts an unsuited CS well above Superman is too far. By feats alone CS would get embarrassed by Superman here. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you would even give CS a win in a slugfest against HP/DD with the way you describe this feat.





I've mentioned Mammoth dominating him on panel. The alien(more on that) of course too was "killing him". For a guy who's supposedly "well above Superman", it sure does not look like he dominates on every occasion. Far from it to be exact. I mean who has he beaten on panel worth of note? I think he lacks the showing to put him up there with the best.

No external variables doesn't mean he'll purposely rip his suit open to win. Not really his standard go to move.
But I agree the suit has a good chance of being removed here. Not by him however.



Not so for reasons I've mentioned earlier. He's not showing up on a majority of his appearances as a world beater. He also does not remove his suit to go into world beater mode on most occasions. In fact basically never except for gog showing.

Wait a sec. How could it be evident that the "purple core" was weakening him? I mean it could be and I admit that the setting was a bit ambiguous, but there was nothing concrete about the showing where he was being weakened by what you claimed. If that "purple" thing you say was giving such an effect, then everyone within its vicinity would be subject to the effect including the aliens. Unless of course there's something there which tells us they weren't affected as well. The only thing unambiguous there was the fact that he was getting dominated by the alien. Something of note from this scene is an alien that looks to be tugging at pg's cape.

There was a scene pages earlier where PG mentioned that containing a core breach took a lot out of her, but that was in a totally different setting and a totally different planet(qorath). This scene you posted was in xanthraxis. And even then nothing on panel was shown as to how that transpired.

And the scene with pg handling two of the aliens I stated that she may have beat them off panel by the way she has them. Honestly I may have missed something, but how did you come about to the conclusion that the purple core was destroyed?
The reason I didn't extract much from the scene is because there is no actual proof as to how you came about to your conclusions. I'm simply going by what was shown.


Completely unaffected? He was literally thrown for a loop. Plus I think you're giving to much credence to a training session. It's a gud feat, but not be all end all in terms of PG showing her best punch. I would give her more credit than that.

And since you mentioned PG, theres also that time Black Lantern Kal dismissed CS like nothing when compared to PG. She gave him a much better go than he ever did. He even remarked at how he "could" give her a run for her money which tells me that he may or may not be around her level at best... Certainly not one of the upper echelon heralds.

I'm sure someone has those scans handy.

Wasn't CS disappointed in the fact that her hardest hit did hurt him ?

carver9
Dont get why the Powergirl showing is so amazing. Heralds withstand each other hits all of the time. Do I honestly need to post these showings as proof. Hell, Hulk literally smiled after a punch from Thanos.

Senor Cage
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Wasn't CS disappointed in the fact that her hardest hit did hurt him ?

He was disappointed it didn't hurt him. PG is top tier, and he shrugged it off like it was nothing. It's impressive.

Senor Cage
Also, Citizen Steel wasn't KO'd from these demi gods, who recently put down Power Girl in the recent issues. He was unfazed by the swipe, as we see him in the next few panels.

https://i.imgur.com/BrbC9u8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/LS1DLut.jpg

celeyhyga17
Oh, forgot about this showing. Al severely outperformed Citizen Steel in that scene. CS was dismissed easily while Al took those gods on for quite a bit.

Senor Cage
Yeah, but the next arc, CS outperformed Al with those Rock Demons. He shredded his metal and owned a bunch of them, IIRC. While Al was getting his shit kicked in. lol

celeyhyga17
I mentioned that already. Called them golems. Can't recall what they were actually called. Also he didn't rip his armor. They destroyed it.

Galan007
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It was a very good feat. I agree. I think you're giving him too much credit with this one showing. But to say that feat puts an unsuited CS well above Superman is too far. Lets try this another way... Do you think Superman could have matched CS's feat against Gog?

Yes or no is all I need here. smile

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I've mentioned Mammoth dominating him on panel. And guess what? CS one-shotted Mammoth in the very next issue -- used another villain to slap-KO him, iirc.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
The alien(more on that) of course too was "killing him". No, what you're doing now is trying to lowball.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
But I agree the suit has a good chance of being removed here. Not by him however. Again, doesn't matter *how* the suit is removed. Fact is, it *will* be removed, and that's all that matters.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wait a sec. How could it be evident that the "purple core" was weakening him? "Your power is waning, human." Couple that with literally ALL of the JSA roster on the sidelines doing nothing, and I think it is a fair possibility.

If there was no weakening effect, then it is simply PIS of the highest order for reasons I already explained.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Completely unaffected? He was literally thrown for a loop. Plus I think you're giving to much credence to a training session. It's a gud feat, but not be all end all in terms of PG showing her best punch. I would give her more credit than that. Lol? He was knocked down. That's it. Her "hardest possible punch" caused him NO damage whatsoever. Stop trying to downplay.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
And since you mentioned PG, theres also that time Black Lantern Kal dismissed CS like nothing when compared to PG. She gave him a much better go than he ever did. He even remarked at how he "could" give her a run for her money which tells me that he may or may not be around her level at best... Certainly not one of the upper echelon heralds. C'mon.

We've literally *seen* PG's "hardest possible punch" packed with "everything she's got" do absolutely NOTHING to CS aside from knock him down. I'll take showings over ambiguous, cherry-picked statements from a trans-level BL who was notorious for talking shit. thumb up

Galan007
Originally posted by Senor Cage
Yeah, but the next arc, CS outperformed Al with those Rock Demons. He shredded his metal and owned a bunch of them, IIRC. While Al was getting his shit kicked in. lol thumb up

The Puzzlemen were beating the absolute christ out of Al:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322191_JSA_All-Stars_015-015.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322192_JSA_All-Stars_015-016.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322193_JSA_All-Stars_015-017.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322194_JSA_All-Stars_016-003.jpg


Then CS shows up and starts wrecking them with ease:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322195_JSA_All-Stars_016-008.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322196_JSA_All-Stars_016-009.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322197_JSA_All-Stars_016-010.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322198_JSA_All-Stars_016-011.jpg


He couldn't even feel their blows, ffs.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Galan007
Lets try this another way... Do you think Superman could have matched CS's feat against Gog?

Yes or no is all I need here. smile
Of course. You don't think he can? I'd be surprised if you didn't think so.

Originally posted by Galan007

And guess what? CS one-shotted Mammoth in the very next issue -- used another villain to slap-KO him, iirc.
He did. Technically though he cheapshotted him from behind. Doesn't take away from the fact that he was dominated and ko'd by a C-lister from start to finish.

Originally posted by Galan007

No, what you're doing now is trying to lowball.

"Your power is waning, human." Couple that with literally ALL of the JSA roster on the sidelines doing nothing, and I think it is a fair possibility.

If there was no weakening effect, then it is simply PIS of the highest order for reasons I already explained.
That's not a lowball. He has one high end feat without his suit and he is being placed well above Superman. While his regular suited version has lost to questionable opponents and does not really have notable win to his name, but is now around standard Superman just does not sit well with me. Btw he's lost to Icicle ffs.

I've already said my piece regarding that scene. There is no actual proof the purple thing was weakening him. Another possibility is that he was getting his @$$ handed to him. And if it was weakening him, then it most likely would do the same to everyone else that was in the sidelines including some of the aliens.

Originally posted by Galan007

Again, doesn't matter *how* the suit is removed. Fact is, it *will* be removed, and that's all that matters.
Agree.

Originally posted by Galan007

Lol? He was knocked down. That's it. Her "hardest possible punch" caused him NO damage whatsoever. Stop trying to downplay.

C'mon.

We've literally *seen* PG's "hardest possible punch" packed with "everything she's got" do absolutely NOTHING to CS aside from knock him down. I'll take showings over ambiguous, cherry-picked statements from a trans-level BL who was notorious for talking shit. thumb up
Like I said, I woulnd't take a training setting as gospel. He was knocked away for a punch he was ready for in a sparring session. He also doesn't feel pain so he usually has a nonchalant reaction to getting hit. In the same token, Magog took one clearly to the face(and had blood) while in a similar setting(supposedly her hardest again). It was a sparring session that turned into an actual fight. And that PG was visibly enraged. The punch did nothing more than knock him down like CS in the end. This showing you keep putting up was impressive, but not as impressive as you purport it to be.

If anything, his most impressive tanking was against herald gog where he took one to he solar plexus and only got pushed some feet away and was still standing. And that was an actual fight. Essentially that is what I'm looking for here before we put him in such high regard.
Who has he beaten? Which high tiered opponents has he taken down in an actual fight?

Putinbot1
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, I mean, if we take all the things into account, he should be trans, easily, lol.

Domino's luck powers,plus weaponry that allows Logan to hurt heralds (he WAS created to fight superhumans), plus Hulk's amping and strength, plus Weapon X's HFs all stacked on top of each other....

Put it this way. He'd be a no brainier pick for a BZ. But when it came to actually convincing judges, with showings....it'll be much much harder. he will have the feats over time... It's just too early, his weaponry is lady deathstikes as well. He has liquid adamantium also or will eventually. This is a thread in a few years peole will come back to and laugh. He'll also fly like proudstar too.

Galan007
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Of course. You don't think he can? I'd be surprised if you didn't think so. So you think mainstream Superman could do what KC Superman + Thunderbolt + Alan Scott + Power Girl + Starman (etc.) were unable to, and topple Gog with two punches?

Wow. I am shocked to see that you hold Superman in such high esteem. I will surely remember this statement in future Superman/Thor threads. smile

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He did. Technically though he cheapshotted him from behind. Doesn't take away from the fact that he was dominated and ko'd by a C-lister from start to finish. Nor does it take away from the fact that he KO'd said character in the very next issue with essentially no effort, lol.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
That's not a lowball. He has one high end feat without his suit and he is being placed well above Superman. Again, that is his *only* quantifiable all-out/unsuited showing. Therefore, it is the rule; not the exception.

And sorry, but that showing IS significantly beyond Superman-level(even if you want to pretend like it's not.)

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I've already said my piece regarding that scene. There is no actual proof the purple thing was weakening him. Another possibility is that he was getting his @$$ handed to him. And if it was weakening him, then it most likely would do the same to everyone else that was in the sidelines including some of the aliens. So it's PIS.

All-out PG-level strength is only sufficient to knock CS down, but can cause him absolutely NO damage whatsoever(he can't even feel it)... Yet I'm to believe the aliens PG overpowered off-panel were legitimately above CS? Yeah, no.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Like I said, I woulnd't take a training setting as gospel. Why? What legitimate reason do we have to believe that she was holding back, when that entire sequence states the exact opposite? Again, you are going out of your way to lowball.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
If anything, his most impressive tanking was against herald gog where he took one to he solar plexus and only got pushed some feet away and was still standing. And that was an actual fight. You're right, that was a great showing:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322584_5441137.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322585_1139641.jpg

Herald-Gog's punch pushed CS back *maybe* an inch(not "some feet"wink, and then CS swatted him away... Same Gog that was stomping an uber JSA roster immediately beforehand.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Who has he beaten? Which high tiered opponents has he taken down in an actual fight? Most of his feats have already been mentioned. You've downplayed/lowballed -literally- all of them(don't act like you haven't.) Why even continue at this point?

cdtm
Originally posted by Galan007
So you think mainstream Superman could do what KC Superman + Thunderbolt + Alan Scott + Power Girl + Starman (etc.) were unable to, and topple Gog with two punches?

Wow. I am shocked to see that you hold Superman in such high esteem. I will surely remember this statement in future Superman/Thor threads. smile

Nor does it take away from the fact that he KO'd said character in the very next issue with essentially no effort, lol.

Again, that is his *only* quantifiable all-out/unsuited showing. Therefore, it is the rule; not the exception.

And sorry, but that showing IS significantly beyond Superman-level(even if you want to pretend like it's not.)

So it's PIS.

All-out PG-level strength is only sufficient to knock CS down, but can cause him absolutely NO damage whatsoever(he can't even feel it)... Yet I'm to believe the aliens PG overpowered off-panel were legitimately above CS? Yeah, no.

Why? What legitimate reason do we have to believe that she was holding back, when that entire sequence states the exact opposite? Again, you are going out of your way to lowball.

You're right, that was a great showing:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322584_5441137.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322585_1139641.jpg

Herald-Gog's punch pushed CS back *maybe* an inch(not "some feet"wink, and then CS swatted him away... Same Gog that was stomping an uber JSA roster immediately beforehand.

Most of his feats have already been mentioned. You've ignored/downplayed/lowballed -literally- all of them(don't act like you haven't.) Why even continue at this point?

Just like Karate Kid can spend an entire issue jump kicking, karate chopping, and punching PC Superboy, and suffer no damage, yet the very next issue kick a crab person in the shell and scream in pain.

Aside from the fact random crab people on Kamadi's world likely aren't PC Superboy level, he shouldn't hurt himself attacking them even if they are.

Galan007
^ That syndrome is typically prevalent in c-listers like CS. Frankly, I'm shocked that he didn't rack-up a bunch of lowend showings in that abortion of a series "JSA All-Stars". ermm

Senor Cage
The huge Gog was intended to be a team buster. Mainstream superman would not be able to do what steel did. Not at all.

Smurph
Originally posted by Galan007

Then CS shows up and starts wrecking them with ease:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322195_JSA_All-Stars_016-008.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322196_JSA_All-Stars_016-009.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322197_JSA_All-Stars_016-010.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322198_JSA_All-Stars_016-011.jpg


He couldn't even feel their blows, ffs. Jesus, that dialogue. It's like somebody was trying to make it terrible.

Galan007
^ Every single issue of JSA All-Stars was that cringeworthy. Possibly the worst series I have ever read. Horrid artwork to boot. sick

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Galan007
So you think mainstream Superman could do what KC Superman + Thunderbolt + Alan Scott + Power Girl + Starman (etc.) were unable to, and topple Gog with two punches?

Wow. I am shocked to see that you hold Superman in such high esteem. I will surely remember this statement in future Superman/Thor threads. smile
Uhh.. He's beat the shiet out of DS. He has shattered SF DS's body. Helped lift an impossibly heavy book. Helped move a ship many times the size of earth. Pulled Highfather's staff from the source wall. Uh yeah I think he can replicate that.

When did I not aside from the times Abhi misrepresents his feats?

Originally posted by Galan007

Nor does it take away from the fact that he KO'd said character in the very next issue with essentially no effort, lol.
Sure it does. He knocked mammoth out with a cheap shot... But when they faced off in equal footing, he was beat straight up into a ko.

Originally posted by Galan007

Again, that is his *only* quantifiable all-out/unsuited showing. Therefore, it is the rule; not the exception.

And sorry, but that showing IS significantly beyond Superman-level(even if you want to pretend like it's not.)
Well as was brought up earlier, he did have one other non-suited showing. After he was overwhelmed by the puzzlemen golems, he struck them off him when his suit was destroyed. It didn't do much to the puzzlemen however. Fight ended when they were disassembled through esoteric means. So there's that.
Superman has enough showings where two shotting gog would not be surprising.

Originally posted by Galan007

So it's PIS.

All-out PG-level strength is only sufficient to knock CS down, but can cause him absolutely NO damage whatsoever(he can't even feel it)... Yet I'm to believe the aliens PG overpowered off-panel were legitimately above CS? Yeah, no.

Why? What legitimate reason do we have to believe that she was holding back, when that entire sequence states the exact opposite? Again, you are going out of your way to lowball.
Not sure why you keep repeating pis when he has been beaten by not so great opponents. On-panel he has lost to the likes of mammoth and icicle. He has been outperformed by pg and atom smasher when faced with the same situation. He was "getting killed' by an alien. And he does not go around world beating everything. He also does not have a win over a noteworthy opponent.

Originally posted by Galan007

You're right, that was a great showing:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322584_5441137.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39322585_1139641.jpg

Herald-Gog's punch pushed CS back *maybe* an inch(not "some feet"wink, and then CS swatted him away... Same Gog that was stomping an uber JSA roster immediately beforehand.
Excellent feat to be honest. Way better than tanking pg in a sparring session.

Originally posted by Galan007

Most of his feats have already been mentioned. You've downplayed/lowballed -literally- all of them(don't act like you haven't.) Why even continue at this point?
What have I downplayed? The fact that he was bowled over by pg's punch. I guess yeah because it was a sparring session and Magog has basically endured the same thing.

You have refused to acknowledge that he has a bunch not so great showings and call them PIS because of one high end scene.

Prof. T.C McAbe
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Tales-of-the-Sinestro-Corps-Superman-Prime/Full?id=95795#12

So, Superman Prime, weakened just needed one indirect hit for CS. He didn't appear for the rest of the comic and was portrayed as insignificant, contrary to mainstream Superman.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Blackest-Night-JSA/Issue-3?id=87096#9
The same happened with Black Lantern Kal-L who dismissed CS as paperweight and whome Superman fought on nearly even terms, pre and during his Black Lantern appearance.

CS had a great moment to shine and got his respect. Which was just this, one appearance, in his normal showings he was portrayed well below mainstream Supes.

I would rank him like this

CS with suit < average Superman <= CS without suit < serious Superman

Galan007
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Uhh.. He's beat the shiet out of DS. He has shattered SF DS's body. Helped lift an impossibly heavy book. Helped move a ship many times the size of earth. Pulled Highfather's staff from the source wall. Uh yeah I think he can replicate that. Lol.

Interesting... Very interesting. Obviously I disagree for fairly evident reasons.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Well as was brought up earlier, he did have one other non-suited showing. After he was overwhelmed by the puzzlemen golems, he struck them off him when his suit was destroyed. It didn't do much to the puzzlemen however. Fight ended when they were disassembled through esoteric means. Right, so like I said: his unsuited showing against Gog is the rule; not the exception. His other non-suited showing does not contradict/lessen it in an way/shape/form. smile

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Superman has enough showings where two shotting gog would not be surprising. In the very same arc of JSA, mainstream Superman was shown clearly inferior to KC Superman.

...Yet not even KC Supes(along with a plethora of other powerhouses) could do what CS did. But yeah, the obvious conclusion is that it is a Superman-level feat.

Lol. thumb up

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
On-panel he has lost to the likes of mammoth Indeed Mammoth did appear to drop him after a lengthy fight... But then CS KO'd Mammoth in the very next issue(a few minutes later), so...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
and icicle. You mean when Icicle froze him to ~ absolute zero, which stopped his movement? Are you seriously trying THIS hard to lowball? Jesus...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He has been outperformed by pg and atom smasher when faced with the same situation. And he has also grossly outpreformed Atom Smasher, and shown that he is nigh-immune to all-out PG-level strength...In the SAME series. But yeah, lets ignore stuff like that, lol.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He was "getting killed' by an alien. How long are you going to cling to this?

Either the core was exerting some sort of esoteric weakening effect(which is why his "power was waning" and why the JSA were ALL sidelined and NONE of them were attempting to help CS), or it was flagrant PIS, as PG appeared to have overpowered two of those same aliens alone... And in the very next issue we learned that all-out PG-level strength can cause CS NO damage whatsoever.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
And he does not go around world beating everything. Of course he doesn't. CS is a c-lister.

This is a forum battle, though.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
What have I downplayed? Literally everything. Don't play coy, lol.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
You have refused to acknowledge that he has a bunch not so great showings and call them PIS because of one high end scene. To the contrary, I have acknowledged EVERY bit of lowballing you have come up with, and provided MULTIPLE high-end showings for CS. You just ignore/downplay them, cuz reasons...

Senor Cage
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Tales-of-the-Sinestro-Corps-Superman-Prime/Full?id=95795#12

So, Superman Prime, weakened just needed one indirect hit for CS. He didn't appear for the rest of the comic and was portrayed as insignificant, contrary to mainstream Superman.

https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Blackest-Night-JSA/Issue-3?id=87096#9
The same happened with Black Lantern Kal-L who dismissed CS as paperweight and whome Superman fought on nearly even terms, pre and during his Black Lantern appearance.

CS had a great moment to shine and got his respect. Which was just this, one appearance, in his normal showings he was portrayed well below mainstream Supes.

I would rank him like this

CS with suit < average Superman <= CS without suit < serious Superman

It didn't show CS being KO'd, though.

Galan007
Well, the fact that it took SBP and BL Kal (both of whom are easily trans-level) to take CS out doesn't exactly help prove that he is some low-level feeb.

Prof. T.C McAbe
Originally posted by Galan007
Well, the fact that it took SBP and BL Kal (both of whom are easily trans-level) to take CS out doesn't exactly help prove that he is some low-level feeb.

Never said this. Just that as CS looked better compared to KC Supes in the Gog arc, mainstream Supes did too in two other stories. As said, i would put them close together though if it comes down to "save the day"-mode there are few who could be able to follow.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Galan007
Lol.

Interesting... Very interesting. Obviously I disagree for fairly evident reasons.
Bottom line is unsuited CS is no well above Superman for obvious reasons already cited and reasons that can easily be looked up.

Originally posted by Galan007

Right, so like I said: his unsuited showing against Gog is the rule; not the exception.
His other non-suited showing does not contradict/lessen it in an way/shape/form. smile
Well then again unfortunately it really did not keep him in that supposed well above Superman level.

Originally posted by Galan007

In the very same arc of JSA, mainstream Superman was shown clearly inferior to KC Superman.

...Yet not even KC Supes(along with a plethora of other powerhouses) could do what CS did. But yeah, the obvious conclusion is that it is a Superman-level feat.

Lol. thumb up
Speaking of KC Supes, it looked to me mainstream Clark looked better than him during The Kingdom. What with all the only one who was able to recover first from Gog's attack to be able to actually tank a blast that punched a hole into hypertime. Still I wouldn't go around proclaiming mainstream Supes is clearly superior to KC Supes. I would need more than that.

Originally posted by Galan007

Indeed Mammoth did appear to drop him after a lengthy fight... But then CS KO'd Mammoth in the very next issue(a few minutes later), so...

You mean when Icicle froze him to ~ absolute zero, which stopped his movement? Are you seriously trying THIS hard to lowball? Jesus...

And he has also grossly outpreformed Atom Smasher, and shown that he is nigh-immune to all-out PG-level strength...In the SAME series. But yeah, lets ignore stuff like that, lol.
Not only dropped him, he had a clear upper hand and was ragdolling him on a majority of the panels. He ko'd him later only by surprise(cheapshot). There's really no so. One clearly holds more weight.

Yes Icicle. A meta stopped him on his tracks. For a guy who's supposed to be virtually unstoppable he was easily beaten here.

He did out perform Al. By the same token he was severely outperformed by him in a similar situation.

Not ignoring. I'm merely cataloguing all his not so great showings which seem to outweigh his one or two great ones.

Originally posted by Galan007

How long are you going to cling to this?

Either the core was exerting some sort of esoteric weakening effect(which is why his "power was waning" and why the JSA were ALL sidelined and NONE of them were attempting to help CS), or it was flagrant PIS, as PG appeared to have overpowered two of those same aliens alone... And in the very next issue we learned that all-out PG-level strength can cause CS NO damage whatsoever.
Again you are disregarding his other not so great showings in order to categorize this as pis. Completely disagree. And you are adding facts to a scene which there's not even concrete proof of.

Originally posted by Galan007

Of course he doesn't. CS is a c-lister.

This is a forum battle, though.

Literally everything. Don't play coy, lol.

To the contrary, I have acknowledged EVERY bit of lowballing you have come up with, and provided MULTIPLE high-end showings for CS. You just ignore/downplay them, cuz reasons...
Seems to me ure lowballing his lows which outweigh his few highs.

And again you haven't answered simple questions that I've asked like three times now.
Who has he beaten worth of note? Which high tiered opponents has he taken down in an actual fight?

carver9
Couldve sworn Superboy ripped through BL Kal with his TK.

carver9
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/SuDcYXeO2CI/AAAAAAAAQno/Lt5ZuKqB7ko/s1600-h/Blackest+Night++Superman+3-5.jpg

NemeBro
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Never said this. Just that as CS looked better compared to KC Supes in the Gog arc, mainstream Supes did too in two other stories. As said, i would put them close together though if it comes down to "save the day"-mode there are few who could be able to follow. Mainstream Superman didn't really look better than CS in SCW, at least in terms of durability.

As you can see in your scan, SBP thrusted Aquaman's sword at CS, which literally shattered on impact. He was hurt sure, but he was basically being hit by possibly the physically strongest non-cosmic character in DC.

By comparison, SBP's heat vision at his weakest point in that entire arc cut through Superman like a hot knife through butter, and once he regained his strength he could manhandle Superman and a bunch of other heroes at once.

I think people are misrepresenting Galan a bit here. He's already said that he thinks that Superman is overall more formidable than CS, even if CS doesn't have the suit. He just thinks that CS without his suit is physically stronger, and that he is more durable. And if the Gog showing is his only unsuited showing? Yeah I can see why. The intention within the arc was fairly clear.

StyleTime
Citizen Steel is every bit as impressive as he's cracked up to be. My main hesitation here though, is the adamantium. In normal circumstances, sure, we can't transfer feats between characters. I see adamantium as basically it's own character though. Whether it's Wolverine stabbing Thanos or Lady Deathstrike piercing Monet with a touch, it seems like a feat for our favorite comic metal rather than the characters.

I lean to the side that Weapon H could cut CS personally, although there have been people immune to adamantium before.

leonidas
immune to adamantium? you mean people who couldn't be cut? i'm sure there have been a couple (besides ultron) but i can't think of anyone off hand. i def think CS could be cut by WH as well though.

-K-M-
Originally posted by leonidas
immune to adamantium? you mean people who couldn't be cut? i'm sure there have been a couple (besides ultron) but i can't think of anyone off hand. i def think CS could be cut by WH as well though.

Carver. And yes that is a comic book character not just our long term lovable poster

One Big Mob
https://i.imgur.com/GF3xEgn.jpg

-K-M-
How long were you waiting to post that?

Senor Cage
Originally posted by StyleTime
Citizen Steel is every bit as impressive as he's cracked up to be. My main hesitation here though, is the adamantium. In normal circumstances, sure, we can't transfer feats between characters. I see adamantium as basically it's own character though. Whether it's Wolverine stabbing Thanos or Lady Deathstrike piercing Monet with a touch, it seems like a feat for our favorite comic metal rather than the characters.

I lean to the side that Weapon H could cut CS personally, although there have been people immune to adamantium before.

Who are you going with?

One Big Mob
Originally posted by -K-M-
How long were you waiting to post that? I have a few better ones now. I just need to crop them

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by leonidas
immune to adamantium? you mean people who couldn't be cut? i'm sure there have been a couple (besides ultron) but i can't think of anyone off hand. i def think CS could be cut by WH as well though.

Colossus springs to mind.

leonidas
lol oh yeah, that is a pretty obvious one.... but he's not immune, rather logan isn't strong enough. it's always been my impression that anyone with enough strength and logan's claws could cut pretty much anything excepting maybe energy shields. superman with the claws would dice petey up like he was made of tissue paper for example.

Galan007
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Bottom line is unsuited CS is no well above Superman for obvious reasons already cited and reasons that can easily be looked up.

Speaking of KC Supes, it looked to me mainstream Clark looked better than him during The Kingdom. What with all the only one who was able to recover first from Gog's attack to be able to actually tank a blast that punched a hole into hypertime. Still I wouldn't go around proclaiming mainstream Supes is clearly superior to KC Supes. I would need more than that. Please.

KC Supes is indeed stronger than mainstream Superman(even the most avid Superman fans here agree with that.) Yet not even KC Supes + Thunderbolt + Alan Scott + Power Girl + Starman + Stargirl (etc.) could drop Gog.

...Then CS waltzes up, takes off his suit, and drops him with TWO punches. The intent of that showing is flagrantly clear -- it was obviously not something that Superman alone could have done. Again, you're just going out of your way to lowball that feat in this particular thread/discussion. What you're doing here isn't exactly subtle, lol.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Well then again unfortunately it really did not keep him in that supposed well above Superman level.Eh, wut? His only other unsuited showing doesn't lessen his unsuited showing against Gog in any way/shape/form. I suggest you reread the issue if you're seriously trying to pretend otherwise.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not only dropped him, he had a clear upper hand and was ragdolling him on a majority of the panels. He ko'd him later only by surprise(cheapshot). There's really no so. One clearly holds more weight. I'm fine with him appearing in over 100 issues, and only having 1 legit lower-end feat. Hardly enough to counterbalance his highs, lol.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Yes Icicle. A meta stopped him on his tracks. For a guy who's supposed to be virtually unstoppable he was easily beaten here. Stop going out of your way to lowball. This is some carv-level stuff right here.

Icicle was able to stop CS by freezing his metallic body to ~ absolute zero. Why are you pretending like that is some kind of low-end showing? Freeze attacks of that magnitude have stopped some of the most powerful beings in comics.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He did out perform Al. By the same token he was severely outperformed by him in a similar situation. Cool, so it's a wash. smile

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not ignoring. I'm merely cataloguing all his not so great showings which seem to outweigh his one or two great ones. You are lowballing. It's obvious.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Again you are disregarding his other not so great showings in order to categorize this as pis. Completely disagree. And you are adding facts to a scene which there's not even concrete proof of. I am simply mentioning the *only* two options. You just want to pretend like the alien was legitimately more powerful than CS, but that does NOT work for reasons I've already mentioned... Reasons you're opting to ignore in favor of lowballing.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Seems to me ure lowballing his lows which outweigh his few highs. Irony, much?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
And again you haven't answered simple questions that I've asked like three times now.
Who has he beaten worth of note? Which high tiered opponents has he taken down in an actual fight? He's a c-lister. His nature isn't to come in and drop every baddie he's up against, like Superman does.

That said, CS has MORE than enough showings for us to know the level at which he can operate in a FORUM battle. Baselessly lowballing does not change that. smile

Galan007
Originally posted by NemeBro
I think people are misrepresenting Galan a bit here. He's already said that he thinks that Superman is overall more formidable than CS, even if CS doesn't have the suit. He just thinks that CS without his suit is physically stronger, and that he is more durable. And if the Gog showing is his only unsuited showing? Yeah I can see why. The intention within the arc was fairly clear. It's just cele.

But yeah, CS isn't beating someone like Superman in a forum battle -- Supes is too fast/versatile for CS to ever legitimately challenge him. If it were a pure '*** for tat' slugfest, however, we have every reason to believe that an all-out/unsuited CS is above Superman's strength tier, and just as durable(if not moreso)... I really don't think I'm being illogical here. /shrug

Originally posted by StyleTime
Citizen Steel is every bit as impressive as he's cracked up to be. My main hesitation here though, is the adamantium. In normal circumstances, sure, we can't transfer feats between characters. I see adamantium as basically it's own character though. Whether it's Wolverine stabbing Thanos or Lady Deathstrike piercing Monet with a touch, it seems like a feat for our favorite comic metal rather than the characters.

I lean to the side that Weapon H could cut CS personally, although there have been people immune to adamantium before. That's fair. thumb up

Senor Cage
The Steel's are truly durable. Captain Steel (earth 2) was able to endure the fire pits of Apokolips. Insane.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Galan007
Please.

KC Supes is indeed stronger than mainstream Superman(even the most avid Superman fans here agree with that.) Yet not even KC Supes + Thunderbolt + Alan Scott + Power Girl + Starman + Stargirl (etc.) could drop Gog.

...Then CS waltzes up, takes off his suit, and drops him with TWO punches. The intent of that showing is flagrantly clear -- it was obviously not something that Superman alone could have done. Again, you're just going out of your way to lowball that feat in this particular thread/discussion. What you're doing here isn't exactly subtle, lol.
lol.. I'm not sure why you keep rehashing the showing. We've all seen it. You've repeated it multiple times. So with the way you're treating this showing, can a non holding back CS overpower a serious Alan Scott? Can he overpower a serious Thunderbolt? Just wondering how far you would take this showing.

This showing is no different than Lightning beating Scythe when earlier Alan Scott, Doctor Fate, Jay Garrick, Mr. Terrific, Wildcat, and her were getting obliterated. So now the "intent" of this showing "is flagrantly clear--it was obviously not something that" Alan Scott, Doctor Fate, or Jay Garrick "alone could have done"? Please....

Originally posted by Galan007

Eh, wut? His only other unsuited showing doesn't lessen his unsuited showing against Gog in any way/shape/form. I suggest you reread the issue if you're seriously trying to pretend otherwise.
You misunderstand. It didn't lessen that showing. It added nothing to the notion that a nonsuited CS is well above Superman.

Originally posted by Galan007

I'm fine with him appearing in over 100 issues, and only having 1 legit lower-end feat. Hardly enough to counterbalance his highs, lol.

Stop going out of your way to lowball. This is some carv-level stuff right here.

Icicle was able to stop CS by freezing his metallic body to ~ absolute zero. Why are you pretending like that is some kind of low-end showing? Freeze attacks of that magnitude have stopped some of the most powerful beings in comics.
Honestly that's closer to his norm when you look at the whole picture.

Interesting to see u say that considering the pedestal you seem to be putting him on. But maybe that is so. Still it doesn't help his case here.
http://oi64.tinypic.com/313fvyu.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/dmu0kx.jpg
http://oi65.tinypic.com/ose9sj.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007

Cool, so it's a wash. smile

You are lowballing. It's obvious.
A wash with Atom Smasher does not look good for him though with the level you have him correct?

How is it lowballing when he is not portrayed in the gog showing a majority of the time? I think you've got your definitions crossed.

Originally posted by Galan007

I am simply mentioning the *only* two options. You just want to pretend like the alien was legitimately more powerful than CS, but that does NOT work for reasons I've already mentioned... Reasons you're opting to ignore in favor of lowballing.

Irony, much?

He's a c-lister. His nature isn't to come in and drop every baddie he's up against, like Superman does.

That said, CS has MORE than enough showings for us to know the level at which he can operate in a FORUM battle. Baselessly lowballing does not change that. smile
Wrong. I'm bringing to the forefront the general trend of his showings when compared to others around his level. He most likely underperformed against the alien as opposed to let's say PG for example.
Here's a look at it again.
http://oi64.tinypic.com/w86gjn.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/16gye7q.jpg

Another comparison with PG.
http://i64.tinypic.com/2qtimog.jpg

Hell you made a big deal about him taking PG's "strongest punch"!
Here in another sparring session turned real with an enraged PG, Magog walks away like nothing after taking one to the face.
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2myq88y.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/16a44t1.jpg
http://oi68.tinypic.com/9puv0n.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/adj7yt.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/158348j.jpg

Correct. He's not a Superman.
Superman and Mammoth.
http://i.imgur.com/y4Y7aEC.jpg

Citizen Steel and Mammoth. sad
http://oi68.tinypic.com/1z18rad.jpg
http://oi68.tinypic.com/11ah8go.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/5lulpj.jpg
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2sb07zo.jpg



Suited, non-suited, enraged, serious, or whatever, he's no Superman let alone well above Superman.

Galan007
Originally posted by Senor Cage
The Steel's are truly durable. Captain Steel (earth 2) was able to endure the fire pits of Apokolips. Insane. thumb up

CS was also tanking blasts from Alan Scott's constructs(when Alan /w/ Starheart had gone bad and was trying to conqueror the earth):
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39334931_37238.jpg

Prof. T.C McAbe
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Citizen Steel toppled Gog by going for his ankle while the JSA tried to pull him down. And it was after Atom reduced his body to a mess, I even remember his arm barely holding out IIRC. Two completely different methods of approach on a body in completely different conditions.

There was a reason why Superman was able to casually rip off his head. Context is important. Also, there's a big difference in between pushing over a building and taking one down by removing a support beam. Steel is nowhere near as strong as Kurse from what I remember.

Edit: Here's the scene for people to decide for themselves:
http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107037_Justice_Society_of_America_022-04.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107038_Justice_Society_of_America_022-05.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107039_Justice_Society_of_America_022-08.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107041_Justice_Society_of_America_022-10.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16107079_Justice_Society_of_America_022-1213.jpghttp://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107042_Justice_Society_of_America_022-14.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16107044_Justice_Society_of_America_022-15.jpg

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by NemeBro

I think people are misrepresenting Galan a bit here. He's already said that he thinks that Superman is overall more formidable than CS, even if CS doesn't have the suit. He just thinks that CS without his suit is physically stronger, and that he is more durable. And if the Gog showing is his only unsuited showing? Yeah I can see why. The intention within the arc was fairly clear.
Not misrepresenting.

I'm of the mind that CS suited or un-suited is not "well above Superman" in strength or durability. No way.

Galan007
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
lol.. I'm not sure why you keep rehashing the showing. We've all seen it. You've repeated it multiple times. So with the way you're treating this showing, can a non holding back CS overpower a serious Alan Scott? Can he overpower a serious Thunderbolt? Just wondering how far you would take this showing.

This showing is no different than Lightning beating Scythe when earlier Alan Scott, Doctor Fate, Jay Garrick, Mr. Terrific, Wildcat, and her were getting obliterated. So now the "intent" of this showing "is flagrantly clear--it was obviously not something that" Alan Scott, Doctor Fate, or Jay Garrick "alone could have done"? Please.... Yeah, more lowballing. Expected.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
You misunderstand. It didn't lessen that showing. It added nothing to the notion that a nonsuited CS is well above Superman. Based on CS's only all-out/unsuited showing, he IS well beyond Superman in terms of raw slugfest strength.

Superman could not have duplicated that feat. Sorry, bud... Your lowballing cannot change that.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Interesting to see u say that considering the pedestal you seem to be putting him on. But maybe that is so. Still it doesn't help his case here.
http://oi64.tinypic.com/313fvyu.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/dmu0kx.jpg
http://oi65.tinypic.com/ose9sj.jpg How in the holy hell does Icicle stopping CS's movement by freezing his metallic skin with an absolute zero attack diminish CS's strength in any way/shape/form?

Again, this carv-level lowballing is getting old.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wrong. I'm bringing to the forefront the general trend of his showings when compared to others around his level. He most likely underperformed against the alien as opposed to let's say PG for example.
Here's a look at it again.
http://oi64.tinypic.com/w86gjn.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/16gye7q.jpg Yes, I posted this already. Nothing new.

In the very next issue we see that all-out PG-level strength cannot cause ANY damage whatsoever to CS:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39334978_JSA_All-Stars_014-011.jpg

...Yet you'd have me believe those no-name aliens can legitimately overpower CS, when PG evidently handled a few of them solo. Riiight, you're not lowballing or anything, lol. thumb up

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Another comparison with PG.
http://i64.tinypic.com/2qtimog.jpg This comparison means absolutely nothing.

Showings supersede statements... Especially when that statement comes from a BL who was notorious for talking shit to his opponents.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Hell you made a big deal about him taking PG's "strongest punch"!
Here in another sparring session turned real with an enraged PG, Magog walks away like nothing after taking one to the face.
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2myq88y.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/16a44t1.jpg
http://oi68.tinypic.com/9puv0n.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/adj7yt.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/158348j.jpg Cool. From a physical standpoint, Magog is nearly on par with KC Superman:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39334938_2748302.jpg

...I know, I know. In this thread you're claiming that mainstream Supes > KC Supes, but everyone else will be able to understand why a KC Superman-level being shrugging off some PG-level blows doesn't exactly diminish CS in the slightest. smile

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Correct. He's not a Superman.
Superman and Mammoth.
http://i.imgur.com/y4Y7aEC.jpg Lol @ how far back you had to go to dig this up. Your agenda is obvious. laughing out loud

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Citizen Steel and Mammoth. sad
http://oi68.tinypic.com/1z18rad.jpg
http://oi68.tinypic.com/11ah8go.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/5lulpj.jpg
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2sb07zo.jpg The next issue CS got even:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39334950_1816221.jpg

So meh.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Suited, non-suited, enraged, serious, or whatever, he's no Superman let alone well above Superman. *In your very biased opinion. smile

Galan007
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
The reason the JSA couldn't topple Gog is because he was literally rooted to the earth:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787514_2059933.jpg


That's why their best efforts as a team were only sufficient to make Gog stagger a bit:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787527_9253617.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787552_2663275.jpg

And again:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787557_4364224.jpg


That being said, Damage blasting a few holes in Gog's person didn't make him any less rooted to the earth. Thus CS waltzing up and doing in a mere two punches what the cumulative JSA were unable to do, and topple Gog, is amazingly impressive:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787558_3751185.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787568_524980.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/18787589_423150.jpg


You cannot lowball that showing.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, more lowballing. Expected.
You keep saying lowballing without actually addressing what was presented. If you want to handwave a point, then that's on u.
But with you own logic, Lightning is well beyond Alan Scott or Doctor fate. Hell well beyond the group as a whole.

Originally posted by Galan007

Based on CS's only all-out/unsuited showing, he IS well beyond Superman in terms of raw slugfest strength.

Superman could not have duplicated that feat. Sorry, bud... Your lowballing cannot change that.
Sorry I disagree. If you think CS is well beyond Superman strengthwise then that is you prerogative. Just very vey surprising stance imo. I mean specifically jarring to tell u the truth.

Originally posted by Galan007

How in the holy hell does Icicle stopping CS's movement by freezing his metallic skin with an absolute zero attack diminish CS's strength in any way/shape/form?

Again, this carv-level lowballing is getting old.
Not lowballing. Painting a larger picture of the norm.

Originally posted by Galan007

Yes, I posted this already. Nothing new.

In the very next issue we see that all-out PG-level strength cannot cause ANY damage whatsoever to CS:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39334978_JSA_All-Stars_014-011.jpg

...Yet you'd have me believe those no-name aliens can legitimately overpower CS, when PG evidently handled a few of them solo. Riiight, you're not lowballing or anything, lol. thumb up

This comparison means absolutely nothing.

Showings supersede statements... Especially when that statement comes from a BL who was notorious for talking shit to his opponents.
Again. All out PG in a sparring session against a friend, I tend to reserve my judgement for other settings. I do believe she upped her ante there. The same way she upped her ante against her training session(more serious PG) with Magog where he walked away like nothing as in what happened here.

Why is that so unbelievable? On panel they are. You are literally denying what's on panel. I'm not saying they are trans tier characters, but the bottom line is he was beaten there. And with the extra panel, PG may have fared better. That's not a knock on CS. That's a knock on the Idea that CS is well beyond Superman and by extension, beyond PG. A level where I've always maintained he's around in.

Originally posted by Galan007

Cool. From a physical standpoint, Magog is nearly on par with KC Superman:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39334938_2748302.jpg

...I know, I know. In this thread you're claiming that mainstream Supes > KC Supes, but everyone else will be able to understand why a KC Superman-level being shrugging off some PG-level blows doesn't exactly diminish CS in the slightest. smile
Uh no. Show me where I've stated that mainstream Supes > KC Supes.
I take "approaching" KC Superman's level as not quite similar to being "nearly on par". In any case, not sure what this scan is supposed to show.

Originally posted by Galan007

Lol @ how far back you had to go to dig this up. Your agenda is obvious. laughing out loud

The next issue CS got even:
https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/39334950_1816221.jpg

So meh.

*In your very biased opinion. smile I knew you'd find that funny. Low hanging fruit is my weakness. laughing
But still, getting dominated by Mammoth just continues to paint that overall picture of CS. He did get even... Somewhat(cheap shot). He really should have done something similar to him in the first place.

Just remember, I'm not biased to the opinion that CS can win. I'm totally opposed to the idea that he is well above Superman suited, un-suited, holding back, enraged, serious, or whatever other mindset he's in.

Now let me ask again if it's not too much trouble. For some reason you seem to skirting around these simple questions.
Who has he beaten worth of note? Which high tiered opponents has he taken down in an actual fight?

DarkSaint85
Can we just get a mod ruling please

-K-M-
https://i.redd.it/y3gijselpbf11.gif

celeyhyga17
https://media.giphy.com/media/isP4TLqhjm3zq/giphy.gif

DarkSaint85
Celey knows what's up haha

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Can we just get a mod ruling please Celey is prohibited from posting here anymore.

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