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Fight takes place in Sakaar arena. Hand to hand only.

Ragnarok Hulk vs. TDW Kurse

Kurse stomps.

He stomped Mjolnir Thor. Hulk has no chance.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Kurse stomps.

He stomped Mjolnir Thor. Hulk has no chance.

This. It was made pretty clear that Nurse is well beyond Thor physically. Something Hulk isn't.

Unquestionably Kurse

Hulk. He is bigger, stronger and more durable.

Kurse beats Hulk to death

My one issue with Kurse is his questionable durability, while it didn't seem to bother him much, he was so easily stabbed through the body with an old busted ass elven blade.

Not sure that same move would have gone through Hulk the same.

Originally posted by Robtard
My one issue with Kurse is his questionable durability, while it didn't seem to bother him much, he was so easily stabbed through the body with an old busted ass elven blade.

Not sure that same move would have gone through Hulk the same.
Well Thor did strike him a couple of times with little to no effect.

Originally posted by Robtard
My one issue with Kurse is his questionable durability, while it didn't seem to bother him much, he was so easily stabbed through the body with an old busted ass elven blade.

Not sure that same move would have gone through Hulk the same. Well, those weapons are hax.

I wouldn't use Loki stabbing Thor as proof a thug would stab him to death for his smartphone, for example.

This is easy to gauge. A punch from Thor spun Hulk 180 the same punches from an enraged Thor barely turned Kurses head.

A minute long ground and pound from an enraged Hulk didn't really do much to Thor, compared to the same from Nurse which left Thor visibly ****ed up.

There really is no room for debate on this one imo. We have two direct comparisons for thid. They both took a hook from Thor with completely different outcomes, and they both gave Thor a ground and pound with completely different outcomes.

Anybody who says Hulk is stronger is lying to themselves.

Originally posted by Robtard
My one issue with Kurse is his questionable durability, while it didn't seem to bother him much, he was so easily stabbed through the body with an old busted ass elven blade.

Not sure that same move would have gone through Hulk the same.



Was a bit silly yeah. But I would note that Hela was stabbed through the chest on Asgard as well. But it didnt actually do anything to her.


Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Hulk. He is bigger, stronger and more durable.



Stop being a fanboy. Hulk couldnt even take a A weaponless Thor in Ragnarok.

Originally posted by Robtard
My one issue with Kurse is his questionable durability, while it didn't seem to bother him much, he was so easily stabbed through the body with an old busted ass elven blade.

Not sure that same move would have gone through Hulk the same.

Thing is, Asgardian/elven weapons were built/designed to penetrate Asgardian level durability (otherwise, why bother?). We shouldn't look at Asgardian weapons penetrating Kurse as a basis of durability comparison between him and Hulk when we have a direct basis for comparison (Thor's punches). It is clear that Thor's punches were mostly ineffective against Kurse and clearly felt by Hulk.

Kurse wins. Dunno how many times they are gonna keep reposting the same battle.

Originally posted by Darth Thor

Hulk couldnt even take a A weaponless Thor in Ragnarok.
Isn't that bit of an exaggeration

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Isn't that bit of an exaggeration

Nope.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk


Isn't that bit of an exaggeration


By weaponless I meant no Mjolnir or Stormbreaker which is usually standard for Thor. So was including his Lightning punches.

That said he almost KOd Hulk with his first physical attack on him.

On top of that, Thor's arena gear was standard fodder made junk. Hulks was obviously custom made. Thor then processed to disarm and beat him with his own weapons. Thor could have murdered him if he had wished.

I hate that MCU didn't emphasize the Hulk gets stronger as he gets madder.
Hulk not afraid of Surtur but is afraid of Thanos with 1 gem?
Hulk not afraid when Thor was kicking his ass.

Hulk being scared of Thanos is a fan assumption that the Russos themselves have actually openly squashed. It has to do with the power/control dynamic between Hulk and Banner.

https://nerdist.com/russo-bros-hulk-infinity-war-answers-nerdist-news/

https://www.themarysue.com/hulk-sad-avengers-infinity-war/

Ruffalo has also stated similar:

https://www.firstpost.com/entertainment/mark-ruffalo-reveals-why-bruce-banner-couldnt-unleash-the-hulk-in-avengers-infinity-war-5161251.html

Originally posted by Robtard
My one issue with Kurse is his questionable durability, while it didn't seem to bother him much, he was so easily stabbed through the body with an old busted ass elven blade.

Not sure that same move would have gone through Hulk the same.

To be fair, Hulk has never been stabbed with an Asgardian/Elven blade.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Thing is, Asgardian/elven weapons were built/designed to penetrate Asgardian level durability (otherwise, why bother?). We shouldn't look at Asgardian weapons penetrating Kurse as a basis of durability comparison between him and Hulk when we have a direct basis for comparison (Thor's punches). It is clear that Thor's punches were mostly ineffective against Kurse and clearly felt by Hulk.

In the same aspect it could be argued that Kurse was an anti-asgardian weapon. Ergo, using the Thor argument is useless.

The Leviathan punch still sits above anything Kurse has shown.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Was a bit silly yeah. But I would note that Hela was stabbed through the chest on Asgard as well. But it didnt actually do anything to her.






Stop being a fanboy. Hulk couldnt even take a A weaponless Thor in Ragnarok.

Dont make me laugh. Thor was emotional and underestimated Kurse.

Furthermore, Thor never land a proper mjolnir strike.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
In the same aspect it could be argued that Kurse was an anti-asgardian weapon. Ergo, using the Thor argument is useless.

The Leviathan punch still sits above anything Kurse has shown.

When something is stated to be "Anti-Asgardian", it does not mean that it makes Asgardians weaker. It means that it is potent enough in what it does to affect Asgardians (or Asgardian-level durability). Unless, of course, there is evidence that point out that it does so (make Asgardians weaker).

W/c means Kurse being an "Anti-Asgardian" weapon actually helps my argument, not hurt it.

Ergo, the Thor argument is very valid.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
In the same aspect it could be argued that Kurse was an anti-asgardian weapon. Ergo, using the Thor argument is useless.

The Leviathan punch still sits above anything Kurse has shown.

It can't be argued because you just made that up. Entirely untrue and nowhere has that been stated or even remotely hinted at. Your just making stuff up so that your favored character can win.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
When something is stated to be "Anti-Asgardian", it does not mean that it makes Asgardians weaker. It means that it is potent enough in what it does to affect Asgardians (or Asgardian-level durability). Unless, of course, there is evidence that point out that it does so (make Asgardians weaker).

W/c means Kurse being an "Anti-Asgardian" weapon actually helps my argument, not hurt it.

Ergo, the Thor argument is very valid.

Am not saying it makes asgadian weaker. Am saying that it doesnt mean that Kurse can have the same effect on non-asgardians.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
It can't be argued because you just made that up. Entirely untrue and nowhere has that been stated or even remotely hinted at. Your just making stuff up so that your favored character can win.

Please dont make me laugh.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Am not saying it makes asgadian weaker. Am saying that it doesnt mean that Kurse can have the same effect on non-asgardians.

Um, and how does that work exactly? How can he affect Asgardians better than non-Asgardians w/o making Asgardians weaker or being an Asgardian-only weakness of some sort?

I mean do you think Asgardians/Dark Elves would have a different weapon against Frost giants or humans or Kree? Seems silly and I haven't ever seen that even hinted at in the movies.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Um, and how does that work exactly? How can he affect Asgardians better than non-Asgardians w/o making Asgardians weaker or being an Asgardian-only weakness of some sort?

I mean do you think Asgardians/Dark Elves would have a different weapon against Frost giants or humans or Kree? Seems silly and I haven't ever seen that even hinted at in the movies.

Perhaps in the same way that kryptonite defeats Superman.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Dont make me laugh. Thor was emotional and underestimated Kurse.

Furthermore, Thor never land a proper mjolnir strike.


Sure thing fanboy.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Sure thing fanboy.

I dont have Hulk on my profile pic son. You have Thor.

In other words, DONT MAKE ME LAUGH.

IOW you're a Thanos fanboy and all your arguments for him are automatically invalid?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I dont have Hulk on my profile pic son. You have Thor.

In other words, DONT MAKE ME LAUGH.


And I dont claim Thor can take Surtur or Hela or Thanos with Infinity Gems just because Thor is on my profile pic.

Heck I dont even claim hes above Superman or Silver Sufer.


Oh and I make actual arguments with some sense behind them.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Perhaps in the same way that kryptonite defeats Superman.

That has never been alluded to or even hinted at in the movies, however. And that would fall under the "make X weaker" characteristic.

Unless X has special qualities that affects something in a uniquely negative way is alluded to in a story, then isn't it incorrect to simply assume it exists?

Basically, no evidence = does not exist?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Please dont make me laugh.

What's there to laugh at? Was it stated or hinted at anywhere in any of the MCU movies? Yes or no? Do you have any reason, through interviews or anything else to come to that conclusion? Yes or no?

I bet the answer is no to both, hence, you completely made it up and it is an untrue statement.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
And I dont claim Thor can take Surtur or Hela or Thanos with Infinity Gems just because Thor is on my profile pic.

Heck I dont even claim hes above Superman or Silver Sufer.


Oh and I make actual arguments with some sense behind them.

Am not the one saying that Kurse wins because he defeated Thor

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
What's there to laugh at? Was it stated or hinted at anywhere in any of the MCU movies? Yes or no? Do you have any reason, through interviews or anything else to come to that conclusion? Yes or no?

I bet the answer is no to both, hence, you completely made it up and it is an untrue statement.

I never stated it to be so, perhaps you should work on your reading skills.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
That has never been alluded to or even hinted at in the movies, however. And that would fall under the "make X weaker" characteristic.

Unless X has special qualities that affects something in a uniquely negative way is alluded to in a story, then isn't it incorrect to simply assume it exists?

Basically, no evidence = does not exist?

I agree.

Nor has it been alluded that the sword which impaled Kurse has special attributes. As far as the movie goes its just a sword.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I agree.

Nor has it been alluded that the sword which impaled Kurse has special attributes. As far as the movie goes its just a sword.

As far as the movie goes, it's a dark elven sword that have been shown capable of injuring Asgardians.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
In the same aspect it could be argued that Kurse was an anti-asgardian weapon. Ergo, using the Thor argument is useless.

The Leviathan punch still sits above anything Kurse has shown.


Exactly what you said.

Originally posted by FrothByte
As far as the movie goes, it's a dark elven sword that have been shown capable of injuring Asgardians.

Agree to that too.

As far as the movie goes its just a common alien sword.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I agree.

Nor has it been alluded that the sword which impaled Kurse has special attributes. As far as the movie goes its just a sword.

A sword meant to kill Asgardians. Thus it means that it should work on Asgardians as a weapon meant to kill them would, otherwise what's the point?

Anyway, this is all irrelevant, as there is no stabbing that will happen here (Hulk is def not stabbing Kurse), so why even argue about it?

We have a single metric common to both that we can use for comparing durability relevant to this topic: Thor's punches.

And another metric for comparing how effective each characters punches are compared to each other: Thor's face.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Exactly what you said.

"In the same aspect"

I was following Nibe's line of argument, not saying that i believed it so.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
"In the same aspect"

I was following Nibe's line of argument, not saying that i believed it so.

To be fair to me, that wasn't my line of argument exactly.

My line of argument is for the weapons to be effective due to potency not thru some special "weakening" quality.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Agree to that too.

As far as the movie goes its just a common alien sword.

As far as the movie goes, it's a dark elf sword, made by dark elves, that injured a dark elf (Kurse), that was wielded by someone with superhuman strength (Loki).

Originally posted by Nibedicus
To be fair to me, that wasn't my line of argument exactly.

My line of argument is for the weapons to be effective due to potency not thru some special "weakening" quality.

Well then i misunderstood your argument sir.

Fine then.

Originally posted by FrothByte
As far as the movie goes, it's a dark elf sword, made by dark elves, that injured a dark elf (Kurse), that was wielded by someone with superhuman strength (Loki).

Sure thing.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Sure thing.

Which means it's not just an "ordinary sword" as far as us humans are concerned.

Dark Elves were shown to have tech on a similar level to the Asgardians it however was never stated Kurse was an anti-Asgardian weapon.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Which means it's not just an "ordinary sword" as far as us humans are concerned.

As far as humans arr concerned. Agree.

Thats why I said a common alien sword.

Also, it could be said it would as only due to Loki's strength that the blade pierced Kurse, since an Asgardian soldier tried to cut Kurse with what looked like an electrified sword but was just stuck in his armor. At 1:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oGAMiZoCu8

Now for some nitpicking
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
This is easy to gauge. A punch from Thor spun Hulk 180 the same punches from an enraged Thor barely turned Kurses head.

A minute long ground and pound from an enraged Hulk didn't really do much to Thor, compared to the same from Nurse which left Thor visibly ****ed up
Autocorrect sucks big time

Now getting to the topic. The first instance you're comparing to is from Avengers and the second one is from Ragnarok right?
Then isn't that a bit of picking and choosing? The problem with that is it allows anyone to pick whatever showing they feel like even though there are contradictory ones. For example you mentioned Thor turning Hulk 180 degrees with a punch in Avengers. Yet here in their fight in Ragnarok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcLmyi46VYA
You can see Thor delivering similar punches at 2:25 and 2:35 while clearly hurting Hulk, does not produce that much effect as they did in Avengers. Or his other barehanded blows for that matter
And then for the second one, as you said, Hulk gets Thor on the ground and beats in him but does no visible damage in Thor Ragnarok. But back in Avengers, Hulk gives him a nosebleed with one punch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLD9xzJ4oeU
And then Kurse also doesn't make Thor bleed till he throws the rock in his face
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we-cs8LvoCk
Then , in a slightly different comparison, Thor managed to stop Hulk's punch with one arm and started to push them back with two in Avengers, suggesting close strength, but then in Ragnarok knocked the large hammer out of Thor's hand by meeting the double handed hammer strike with his fist, which would mean clear superiority

In the end all these doesn't matter, but I am a sucker for the small details

Except I didn't pick and choose different circumstances. I picked the exact same attacks on two different characters. Then I picked him receiving similar attacks from two different characters. Both had different outcomes.

Now, I will agree with you on the nosebleed part. But you will not find a closer comparison of the two then what I gave forth.

It is fairly clear that the writer intended for Kurse to be a bigger physical threat then the Hulk. Or anything else that Thor has faced thus far.

Look. I understand you want Hulk to win guys, I get it. But as of right now, he simply does not have as good of feats against Thor as Kurse does. Fact.

Maybe this will be an easier pill for yalls gamma irradiated pride to swallow.

Kurse has better feats AGAINST THOR than Hulk does.

Does that help?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
As far as humans arr concerned. Agree.

Thats why I said a common alien sword.

There's no such thing as a "common alien sword" because aliens are all different, therefore there would be no such thing as a common alien.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Also, it could be said it would as only due to Loki's strength that the blade pierced Kurse, since an Asgardian soldier tried to cut Kurse with what looked like an electrified sword but was just stuck in his armor. At 1:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oGAMiZoCu8

Now for some nitpicking

Autocorrect sucks big time

Now getting to the topic. The first instance you're comparing to is from Avengers and the second one is from Ragnarok right?
Then isn't that a bit of picking and choosing? The problem with that is it allows anyone to pick whatever showing they feel like even though there are contradictory ones. For example you mentioned Thor turning Hulk 180 degrees with a punch in Avengers. Yet here in their fight in Ragnarok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcLmyi46VYA
You can see Thor delivering similar punches at 2:25 and 2:35 while clearly hurting Hulk, does not produce that much effect as they did in Avengers. Or his other barehanded blows for that matter
And then for the second one, as you said, Hulk gets Thor on the ground and beats in him but does no visible damage in Thor Ragnarok. But back in Avengers, Hulk gives him a nosebleed with one punch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLD9xzJ4oeU
And then Kurse also doesn't make Thor bleed till he throws the rock in his face
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we-cs8LvoCk
Then , in a slightly different comparison, Thor managed to stop Hulk's punch with one arm and started to push them back with two in Avengers, suggesting close strength, but then in Ragnarok knocked the large hammer out of Thor's hand by meeting the double handed hammer strike with his fist, which would mean clear superiority

In the end all these doesn't matter, but I am a sucker for the small details

All these are easily explained.

1. Hulk in Ragnarok had already been trained for an unknown number of years by Valkyrie whereas he was completely untrained in Avengers. That's a decent explanation why a simple cross from Thor spun him 180 in Avengers whereas his base and footwork were more solid in Ragnarok.

2. The punch that made Thor bleed in Avengers was a sucker punch. He was unprepared for it and it caught him square in the face. The ground and pound in Ragnarok was delivered while he knew he was in a fight, so even though they landed flush to his face it helps a lot if you're able to brace before impact. It might also be argued that Hulk in Avengers was an angrier Hulk (being mindphucked by Loki's scepter) than Ragnarok Hulk and thus stronger.

3. I don't see what the issue is here. Thor needed to use both arms to fully halt Hulk's overhand smash which seems to indicate that Thor's 2 arms is roughly equal to Hulk's 1 arm. So Hulk catching (in one hand) a hammer blow from Thor delivered by 2 hands is not too far off. The weight of the hammer should have added a bit more oomph to the hit but honestly at the strength level of these guys that extra weight would be miniscule. There's also the concept of forte and foible of weapons, or the strong and weak portions. Basically, the further away from your body you hit with the weapon (in this case at the very end of a hammer) the harder it will be for you to push with the attack. There's more momentum so the initial hit is harder, but as soon as that momentum is gone it will be hard for you to push further, as is the case of Thor hitting with that hammer.


In the end, the real clincher for me is this: body shots. Just look at how Thor's body punches affect Hulk vs. Kurse. Hulk obviously gets hurt by Thor's punches whereas Kurse barely flinches.

Plus a nose bleed isn't really a great indicator of damage. Been slightly nicked on the nose once and got a slight nose bleed and got into a full blown brawl in the ring (got a shiner, small fractured on my wrist and some teeth got a little loose) and didn't get a nosebleed at all. Sometimes we get it sometimes we don't.

Originally posted by FrothByte
There's no such thing as a "common alien sword" because aliens are all different, therefore there would be no such thing as a common alien.

Yes it can, since the owner of the sword was a common soldier.

Originally posted by FrothByte
All these are easily explained.

1. Hulk in Ragnarok had already been trained for an unknown number of years by Valkyrie whereas he was completely untrained in Avengers. That's a decent explanation why a simple cross from Thor spun him 180 in Avengers whereas his base and footwork were more solid in Ragnarok.

2. The punch that made Thor bleed in Avengers was a sucker punch. He was unprepared for it and it caught him square in the face. The ground and pound in Ragnarok was delivered while he knew he was in a fight, so even though they landed flush to his face it helps a lot if you're able to brace before impact. It might also be argued that Hulk in Avengers was an angrier Hulk (being mindphucked by Loki's scepter) than Ragnarok Hulk and thus stronger.

3. I don't see what the issue is here. Thor needed to use both arms to fully halt Hulk's overhand smash which seems to indicate that Thor's 2 arms is roughly equal to Hulk's 1 arm. So Hulk catching (in one hand) a hammer blow from Thor delivered by 2 hands is not too far off. The weight of the hammer should have added a bit more oomph to the hit but honestly at the strength level of these guys that extra weight would be miniscule. There's also the concept of forte and foible of weapons, or the strong and weak portions. Basically, the further away from your body you hit with the weapon (in this case at the very end of a hammer) the harder it will be for you to push with the attack. There's more momentum so the initial hit is harder, but as soon as that momentum is gone it will be hard for you to push further, as is the case of Thor hitting with that hammer.


In the end, the real clincher for me is this: body shots. Just look at how Thor's body punches affect Hulk vs. Kurse. Hulk obviously gets hurt by Thor's punches whereas Kurse barely flinches.

Ragnarok Thor》》》》》》》》》》 Sentimental Dark World Thor.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Ragnarok Thor》》》》》》》》》》 Sentimental Dark World Thor.

Only Thor at the end of Ragnarok, the one who unlocked his thundergod powers. Thor at the time he fought Hulk in the arena seems no more powerful than TDW Thor. In fact even less powerful since he didn't have Mjolnir.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Only Thor at the end of Ragnarok, the one who unlocked his thundergod powers. Thor at the time he fought Hulk in the arena seems no more powerful than TDW Thor. In fact even less powerful since he didn't have Mjolnir.

You forget that Thor got buffs in AoU. Thor never used his mjolnir properly against Kurse.

And I keep saying this, Thor's fight with Kurse wasnt at Thor's best. His mother just died, he was emotional. Personally, Thor wasnt fighting properly.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
You forget that Thor got buffs in AoU. Thor never used his mjolnir properly against Kurse.

And I keep saying this, Thor's fight with Kurse wasnt at Thor's best. His mother just died, he was emotional. Personally Thor wasnt fighting properly.

What buffs did he get in AOU?


As for him being distraught in TDW, remember that Odin had just died recently when Thor fought Hulk in Ragnarok.

Originally posted by FrothByte
What buffs did he get in AOU?

Destroying Sokovia is a massive power buff for instance, with Mjonir sure but a buff still.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Destroying Sokovia is a massive power buff for instance, with Mjonir sure but a buff still.

That's not a power buff. That's simply another feat for him that is consistent with the powerlevels he's been shown to have before.

Originally posted by FrothByte
That's not a power buff. That's simply another feat for him that is consistent with the powerlevels he's been shown to have before.

Ofcouse it is! How can it be consistent if it was the first time he ever destroyed an entire city?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Ofcouse it is! How can it be consistent if it was the first time he ever destroyed an entire city?

He previously destroyed acres of the Jotunheim world, and that was him without the assistance of an overloaded vibranium core. So yeah, it's pretty consistent.

Originally posted by FrothByte
He previously destroyed acres of the Jotunheim world, and that was him without the assistance of an overloaded vibranium core. So yeah, it's pretty consistent.

You know my opinion on Jotunheim.

The city was much bigger still.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
You know my opinion on Jotunheim.

The city was much bigger still.

Aye, the city was bigger... but let's not pretend the vibranium core didn't have anything to do with destroying that city.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Aye, the city was bigger... but let's not pretend the vibranium core didn't have anything to do with destroying that city.

And that ice is weaker than solid rock.

We don't know exactly what effect did the vib core had...speculation won't work.

All we know is that Thor's lightning destroyed Sokovia, which is a feat like none seen before.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
And that ice is weaker than solid rock.

We don't know exactly what effect did the vib core had...speculation won't work.

All we know is that Thor's lightning destroyed Sokovia, which is a feat like none seen before.

Ok so let me just get this straight. You believe Thor's lightning is strong enough to destroy an entire city?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok so let me just get this straight. You believe Thor's lightning is strong enough to destroy an entire city?

It appear so in AoU.

So you didn't understand the movie

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
It appear so in AoU.

Ok then I will hold you to that in future arguments, as I recall you not attributing sokovia's destruction purely to Thor in other arguments.

In any case, it matters little in this match, as Thor didn't use lightning attacks on Hulk and Kurse for the scenes that we are referring to.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok then I will hold you to that in future arguments, as I recall you not attributing sokovia's destruction purely to Thor in other arguments.

In any case, it matters little in this match, as Thor didn't use lightning attacks on Hulk and Kurse for the scenes that we are referring to.

Okay then, so Thor did had buffs.

Either way, Hulk has better strength and durability feats.

Kurse had a lucky shot at an emotional Thor, who wasnt fighting properly and never landed a proped hit. Kurse biggest feat was able to dodge and counter Thor's desperate attacks.

Kurse loses, he aint harming Hulk nor outpowering him.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Okay then, so Thor did had buffs.

Either way, Hulk has better strength and durability feats.

Kurse had a lucky shot at an emotional Thor, who wasnt fighting properly and never landed a proped hit. Kurse biggest feat was able to dodge and counter Thor's desperate attacks.

Kurse loses, he aint harming Hulk nor outpowering him.

Nope, Thor didn't have buffs. Not until the end of Ragnarok. You forget that Odin had just dies when Thor fought Hulk in the arena. So if he was emotionally distraught against Kurse, the same could be said when he fought Hulk.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
And that ice is weaker than solid rock.

We don't know exactly what effect did the vib core had...speculation won't work.

All we know is that Thor's lightning destroyed Sokovia, which is a feat like none seen before. Nope, Tony stated exactly what effect the core had.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Nope, Thor didn't have buffs. Not until the end of Ragnarok. You forget that Odin had just dies when Thor fought Hulk in the arena. So if he was emotionally distraught against Kurse, the same could be said when he fought Hulk.

You just said it did!

His father died of age, her mother was killed! There is a difference in that.

He knew Hulk's abilities; he didnt know Kurse's.

Either way, Hulk has better raw feats by now.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Nope, Tony stated exactly what effect the core had.

Would mind posting a clip? I dont remember AoU quite well.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander


Either way, Hulk has better strength and durability feats.



Hulk has better strength feats than Thanos, so I guess he beats Thanos in H2H too... Oh wait...

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Hulk has better strength feats than Thanos, so I guess he beats Thanos in H2H too... Oh wait...

Are you trolling now? There is a direct link between Thanos and Hulk.

Kurse has never fought someone like Hulk.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
You just said it did!

His father died of age, her mother was killed! There is a difference in that.

He knew Hulk's abilities; he didnt know Kurse's.

Either way, Hulk has better raw feats by now.

I never said it did. All I did was try and clarify your stance, I never agreed to it.

So following your reasoning, it means when Thor fought Thanos he wasn't at his best either because he just saw a bunch of his friends and family die?

Originally posted by FrothByte
I never said it did. All I did was try and clarify your stance, I never agreed to it.

So following your reasoning, it means when Thor fought Thanos he wasn't at his best either because he just saw a bunch of his friends and family die?

We dont know what happened before IW.

And again, Hulk's feats are better than Kurse's who never got properly engaged by Thor.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
We dont know what happened before IW.

And again, Hulk's feats are better than Kurse's who never got properly engaged by Thor.

Kurse has 1 feat that trumps all of Hulks: He beat up Thor way better than Hulk ever did.

And since this is a fight and not some weightlifting competition, this feat actually counts.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Kurse has 1 feat that trumps all of Hulks: He beat up Thor way better than Hulk ever did.

And since this is a fight and not some weightlifting competition, this feat actually counts.

He beat up Thor in a 1 min scene, where Thor is taken by surprise by Kurse's speed and combat skills. And again, Kurse never received a proper hit from Thor!

And lastly, Hulk's strength and durability 》 Dark World Thor.

Beating an emotional unprepared Thor doesnt mean Kurse can win against a stronger, bigger and more durable oponent like Hulk.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He beat up Thor in a 1 min scene, where Thor is taken by surprise by Kurse's speed and combat skills. And again, Kurse never received a proper hit from Thor!

And lastly, Hulk's strength and durability 》 Dark World Thor.

Beating an emotional unprepared Thor doesnt mean Kurse can win against a stronger, bigger and more durable oponent like Hulk.

The problem with that reasoning is that you would need quantifiable proof that Thor was weaker when he faced Kurse. Without that, it would be pure speculation and you'd have to allow people to argue speculative theories such as: Thor held back against Hulk, Thor was weakened by the obedience disk, etc.

As such, proof-for-proof (and without speculative theories), you would have to at least concede the fact that Kurse did far better against Thor, both in taking hits and inflicting damage.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
The problem with that reasoning is that you would need quantifiable proof that Thor was weaker when he faced Kurse. Without that, it would be pure speculation and you'd have to allow people to argue speculative theories such as: Thor held back against Hulk, Thor was weakened by the obedience disk, etc.

As such, proof-for-proof (and without speculative theories), you would have to at least concede the fact that Kurse did far better against Thor, both in taking hits and inflicting damage.

Then its clear that comparing both of Thor's fights isnt suitable since his fighting condition isnt the same for both scenarios.

The problem with using Thor as a comparison is that Thor is different from Hulk.

Thor handled Hulk so well because he was way faster and agile, which makes Hulk overwhelming strength useless. Kurse on the other hand is smaller than Hulk and faster. He is also more reasonable (aint a brute beast) and actually knows how to fight (He was dodging and blocking Thor's few blows).


To me it seems like a rock, papper, scissors scenario.

Kurse beIng more suited for fighting Thor doesnt mean he can take down the rock.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
The problem with using Thor as a comparison is that Thor is different from Hulk.

Thor handled Hulk so well because he was way faster and agile which makes Hulk overwhelming strength useless. Kurse on the other hand is smaller than Hulk and faster. He is also more reasonable (aint a brute beast) and actually knows how to fight (He was dodging and blocking Thor's few blows).

To me it seems like a rock, papper, scissors scenario.

Kurse beIng more suited for fighting Thor doesnt mean he can take down the rock.

But you cannot dismiss the fact that Kurse's hits had a visibly greater effect on Thor and Thor's hits had a much less visible effect on Kurse comparing to Hulk. At the very LEAST it makes Kurse a physical peer to Hulk. I would argue even stronger but I can accept peer.

And I also agree, Kurse is a MUCH better tactical fighter than Hulk. And this is why he did so well vs Thor (who uses his superior speed/skill and smaller size to dance around Hulk). Not only did he neutralize Thor's skill advantage, he also (tactically) separated Thor from Mjolnir and kept him off balance.

Thing is, we've seen how a superior fighter with comparable stats would do against Hulk in Thanos. And basically almost every MMA fight we've seen. Superior skill against a physical peer could only end in one result.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
But you cannot dismiss the fact that Kurse's hits had a visibly greater effect on Thor and Thor's hits had a much less visible effect on Kurse comparing to Hulk. At the very LEAST it makes Kurse a physical peer to Hulk. I would argue even stronger but I can accept peer.

And I also agree, Kurse is a MUCH better tactical fighter than Hulk. And this is why he did so well vs Thor (who uses his superior speed/skill and smaller size to dance around Hulk). Not only did he neutralize Thor's skill advantage, he also (tactically) separated Thor from Mjolnir and kept him off balance.

Thing is, we've seen how a superior fighter with comparable stats would do against Hulk in Thanos. And basically almost every MMA fight we've seen. Superior skill against a physical peer could only end in one result.


Agree. And you can't dismiss the fact that Hulk never blocked or dodged Thor's attacks, but rather took them head on.

Tactically and in terms of agility I give Kurse the win. Definetly.

The question here is, does Kurse have the strength to brawl and outpower Hulk the way Thanos did?

Another good question here is, can Kurse put down Hulk? I mean, not even a full Mjolnir to the face could bring down Hulk. Hulkbuster was able to K.O him because Hulk was distracted and not-raged.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1) Agree. And you can't dismiss the fact that Hulk never blocked or dodged Thor's attacks, but rather took them head on.

Tactically and in terms of agility I give Kurse the win. Definetly.

2) The question here is, does Kurse have the strength to brawl and outpower Hulk the way Thanos did?

3) Another good question here is, can Kurse put down Hulk? I mean, not even a full Mjolnir to the face could bring down Hulk. Hulkbuster was able to K.O him because Hulk was distracted and not-raged.

1) Well, Hulk being a rage monster means that he's more of a brawler. I doubt he'd do anything different with Kurse.

2) He doesn't need to overpower Hulk tbh. Just score better hits, more hits and get hit less often (or get hit in less critical places). Eventually, he should wear Hulk down the way Thanos did (but will take much longer of course). This is because we know 2 things:

a) Thor's punches can hurt the Hulk
b) Kurse's punches are stronger than Thor's, arguably a peer+ of Hulk's. W/c means that it would hurt Hulk much more than Thor's punches would.

3) Well, we've seen Hulk get KO'd (by Thanos), so it certainly is possible. I certainly don't think Kurse is equal to Thanos, of course, just stating that Hulk can certainly be KO'd.

The problem with that question is that we've never seen (w/o assistance) Hulk KO Thor nor have we seen vice versa. We do not have direct proof of either being able to KO the other. We do know it is possible for either to be KO'd, but we do not have a gauge how much of either is needed to accomplish it.

Best-evidence argument is to use Thor as a simple metric and determine who did better against Thor and go from there. That is my opinion, of course.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) Well, Hulk being a rage monster means that he's more of a brawler. I doubt he'd do anything different with Kurse.

2) He doesn't need to overpower Hulk tbh. Just score better hits, more hits and get hit less often (or get hit in less critical places). Eventually, he should wear Hulk down the way Thanos did (but will take much longer of course). This is because we know 2 things:

a) Thor's punches can hurt the Hulk
b) Kurse's punches are stronger than Thor's, arguably a peer+ of Hulk's. W/c means that it would hurt Hulk much more than Thor's punches would.

3) Well, we've seen Hulk get KO'd (by Thanos), so it certainly is possible. I certainly don't think Kurse is equal to Thanos, of course, just stating that Hulk can certainly be KO'd.

The problem with that question is that we've never seen (w/o assistance) Hulk KO Thor nor have we seen vice versa. We do not have direct proof of either being able to KO the other. We do know it is possible for either to be KO'd, but we do not have a gauge how much of either is needed to accomplish it.

Best-evidence argument is to use Thor as a simple metric and determine who did better against Thor and go from there. That is my opinion, of course.

1. Sure thing.

2. Thanos didn't wear down Hulk. He "Loki'ed" (Broke the floor with Hulk) Hulk

a. Thor's punches pushed back Hulk. Hurt him? Idk, he seemed fine.

b. Would that be enought to put Hulk down?

3. Yeah, but it required another 'Hulk' to do so (Thanos seems to be as strong or even stronger than Banner).

My problem with using that argument is that Thor and Hulk are different in nature.

To me, the best way of comparison in such a case is feats. Because Hulk is completely different in nature to Thor.

Hulk is fire and Thor is water remember

You know I respect your opinion. But in my opinion, Hulk has taken other brute beasts (Like Hulkbuster and Thanos) whereas Kurse hasn't.

Hulk lost to Hulkbuster, Thanos, was losing to Thor and honestly wasn't doing terribly well vs. Fenris. I don't see him doing to well against an obviously physically SUPERIOR being who is also faster and a better fighter. I just don't.

^ Spot on.

Hulk isn't beating Kurse.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Hulk lost to Hulkbuster, Thanos, was losing to Thor and honestly wasn't doing terribly well vs. Fenris. I don't see him doing to well against an obviously physically SUPERIOR being who is also faster and a better fighter. I just don't.

Hulkbuster was tied with Hulk. He knocked him out due to Hulk calming down.

When was Thanos losing against Thor?

Superior!? Prove Kurse can stop a Leviathan or punch Surtur arround!

There's a comma after Thanos, and oneshotting Asgards forcefield is more impressive than a Leviathan.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
There's a comma after Thanos, and oneshotting Asgards forcefield is more impressive than a Leviathan.

Based on?

Excellent points Froth I agree with all. Except this
Originally posted by FrothByte

3. I don't see what the issue is here. Thor needed to use both arms to fully halt Hulk's overhand smash which seems to indicate that Thor's 2 arms is roughly equal to Hulk's 1 arm. So Hulk catching (in one hand) a hammer blow from Thor delivered by 2 hands is not too far off. The weight of the hammer should have added a bit more oomph to the hit but honestly at the strength level of these guys that extra weight would be miniscule. There's also the concept of forte and foible of weapons, or the strong and weak portions. Basically, the further away from your body you hit with the weapon (in this case at the very end of a hammer) the harder it will be for you to push with the attack. There's more momentum so the initial hit is harder, but as soon as that momentum is gone it will be hard for you to push further, as is the case of Thor hitting with that hammer.


You misunderstood the instance I was referring to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcLmyi46VYA
At 2:23, when Thor swings the hammer, Hulk punches the head of the hammer and disarms Thor. That's what I was referring to

Kurse wins

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
2. To me it seems like a rock, paper, scissors fight. Thor would be the paper.

Thor is too agile and cunning for Hulk.

Kurse is agile enough, cunning enough and strong enough to engage counter Thor.

Hulk is massively strong and durable.

The only way I see Kurse having the edge is if he out-dances Hulk the way Thor did.

Otherwise, i don't see Kurse actually blocking and taking Hulk's brute attacks

3. Hmmm... Idk, Kurse seems more versatile. Hulk is just a brute.

It's a matter of perception. To me it's harder to gauge based on Thor, since as I mentioned, Hulk =/= to Thor.

Hulk just has massive feats like moving Surtur or punching the Leviathan on his corner, whereas we don't know how well Thor was fighting.

Kurse never got a proper mjolnir strike like Hulk did because he managed to split them. (We don't know if he would be able to cope with such a levels of power).

2. Yeah, figured you saw it that way. I see your point, but Kurse doesn't need to dodge Hulk the way Thor does. He can simply block Hulk's punches. And seeing as he is skilled and powerful enough to deflect a returning Mjolnir while his back is turned, that won't be too hard. I can certainly see Kurse blocking most of Hulk's hits while Hulk would likely eat almost all the Kure's hits.

3. Well, I don't disagree. Hulk certainly has the better strength showings of the two. But, like I said, Kurse had a limited showing and very few strength "feats" to go on and has never had his max strength tested. While we can basically scale both off Thor's punches/face (w/c would be the most precise metric IMO).

Kurse sent Thor flying more than a few hundred feet with a backhand (which is far weaker than any punch). Hulk never sent Thor flying that far with a punch.
So Kurse on average should be at least twice as strong as Hulk.

Originally posted by h1a8
Kurse sent Thor flying more than a few hundred feet with a backhand (which is far weaker than any punch). Hulk never sent Thor flying that far with a punch.
So Kurse on average should be at least twice as strong as Hulk.

Sigh.

While Kurse DID send Thor flying away (that is true), it does NOT quantifiably establish that Kurse is at least twice as strong as Hulk. That is quite the leap of logic there.

I don't disagree that it is possible. But your methodology for determining it sucks.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
2. To me it seems like a rock, paper, scissors fight. Thor would be the paper.

Thor is too agile and cunning for Hulk.

Kurse is agile enough, cunning enough and strong enough to engage counter Thor.

Hulk is massively strong and durable.

The only way I see Kurse having the edge is if he out-dances Hulk the way Thor did.

Otherwise, i don't see Kurse actually blocking and taking Hulk's brute attacks

3. Hmmm... Idk, Kurse seems more versatile. Hulk is just a brute.

It's a matter of perception. To me it's harder to gauge based on Thor, since as I mentioned, Hulk =/= to Thor.

Hulk just has massive feats like moving Surtur or punching the Leviathan on his corner, whereas we don't know how well Thor was fighting.

Kurse never got a proper mjolnir strike like Hulk did because he managed to split them. (We don't know if he would be able to cope with such a levels of power).


I mean you pretty much admit Kurse is faster and a better fighter than Hulk.

Ergo this should go pretty similar to how Hulk vs Thanos went.


As for Hulks massive strength feats, Thanos doesnt have those either

You and h1a8 both need to realise powerscaling Does Matter. Otherwise nothing makes sense going JUST by an individuals own feats.

Why is breaking an advanced alien forcefield less impressive than an advanced alien worm? Considering the bifrost was powering the field I find it more impressive. And Kurse did that casually.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Sigh.

While Kurse DID send Thor flying away (that is true), it does NOT quantifiably establish that Kurse is at least twice as strong as Hulk. That is quite the leap of logic there.

I don't disagree that it is possible. But your methodology for determining it sucks.

So we don't use direct comparisons against Thor?
Imagine Hulk trying to swat Mjolnir away instead of trying to catch it from the first Avengers movie. Would he be successful in just stopping it (not hitting it away)? My opinion says no.

Originally posted by h1a8
So we don't use direct comparisons against Thor?
Imagine Hulk trying to swat Mjolnir away instead of trying to catch it from the first Avengers movie. Would he be successful in just stopping it (not hitting it away)? My opinion says no.

Originally posted by h1a8
So we don't use direct comparisons against Thor?



Ironic statement given you dont wanna use direct comparisons against Hulk and Thor when it comes to bullets.

Kurse would put Hulk in a coma. It would go down almost exactly like his fight with Thanos. He's facing an opponent stronger, more durable and far more skilled.

Hulk needs to take self-defense classes if he doesn't want to keep getting beat up.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Destroying Sokovia is a massive power buff for instance, with Mjonir sure but a buff still.

This is fake news. Where do you get your conclusions from?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is fake news. Where do you get your conclusions from?

The truth is we have never seen the maximum output of any of these characters so to say it is a buff is faulty.

Thor had no reason to obliterate a city which is we haven't seen him do it. Jotunheim is a good indicator of what he was capable of.

In WW2 the British tried making some boats out of solid ice and they stood up to torpedoes better than metal. Melting was a problem though.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
2. Yeah, figured you saw it that way. I see your point, but Kurse doesn't need to dodge Hulk the way Thor does. He can simply block Hulk's punches. And seeing as he is skilled and powerful enough to deflect a returning Mjolnir while his back is turned, that won't be too hard. I can certainly see Kurse blocking most of Hulk's hits while Hulk would likely eat almost all the Kure's hits.

3. Well, I don't disagree. Hulk certainly has the better strength showings of the two. But, like I said, Kurse had a limited showing and very few strength "feats" to go on and has never had his max strength tested. While we can basically scale both off Thor's punches/face (w/c would be the most precise metric IMO).

2. Well that's the thing Nibedicus.

Can Kurse engage Hulk's brute attacks!? Beating Thor doesn't make him as strong as Hulk, or means he can replicate Thanos' feat.

3. There is also considering that per each strike Hulk gives Thor, Kurse gives 5.

If you check the fight between Kurse and Thor, Kurse was able to land more strikes in a shorter time than Hulk ever did.

Originally posted by h1a8
Kurse sent Thor flying more than a few hundred feet with a backhand (which is far weaker than any punch). Hulk never sent Thor flying that far with a punch.
So Kurse on average should be at least twice as strong as Hulk.

Are you looking for me to get a headache?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
2. Well that's the thing Nibedicus.

Can Kurse engage Hulk's brute attacks!? Beating Thor doesn't make him as strong as Hulk, or means he can replicate Thanos' feat.

3. There is also considering that per each strike Hulk gives Thor, Kurse gives 5.

If you check the fight between Kurse and Thor, Kurse was able to land more strikes in a shorter time than Hulk ever did.

2. Blocking would be just about as effective as dodging at this point, seeing as Kurse is at least a peer+ of Hulk in physical stats.

3. I seem to remember actually counting all strikes between their fights back then (had to in one debate I had) and the single ground pound did on Thor had about the same number of hits as the total number of strikes Kurse had on Thor throughout their entire fight (IIRC) and this happened at a shorter time frame while Thor's had his head was flat against the ground (meaning he had to absorb the full impact of each strike). Of course, I'm doing this by memory so I can't say for certain. But go ahead and count all the punches Thor took vs Kurse in their fight and the number of hits Thor had vs Hulk in Ragnarok.

Searched it. Found it. The debate was actually with you, too!

Here it is:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=653432&pagenumber=2

Originally posted by Nibedicus
That didn't happen on the ground and pound (GnP) tho. Basically every one of Hulk's GnP punches hit, Hulk also hit Thor more than twice the number of GnP hits Kurse had and even managed to land double arm strikes (w/c Kurse was unable to do due to Loki stopping him) as well as a jump-stomp at the start. In fact, on the GnP alone (w/c landed 20 seconds), he managed to basically match Kurse's overall total number of punches landed (Kurse landed a total of 14 hits including the rock throw, Hulk landed 13-14 GnP hits, 2 off screen including the ground stomp from my count).

Basically, Hulk landed as many direct, clean full power hits to a prone Thor as ALL of Kurse's hits combined and yet had much less of an effect on Thor.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is fake news. Where do you get your conclusions from?

AoU.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
2. Blocking would be just about as effective as dodging at this point, seeing as Kurse is at least a peer+ of Hulk in physical stats.

3. I seem to remember actually counting all strikes between their fights back then (had to in one debate I had) and the single ground pound did on Thor had about the same number of hits as the total number of strikes Kurse had on Thor throughout their entire fight (IIRC) and this happened at a shorter time frame while Thor's had his head was flat against the ground (meaning he had to absorb the full impact of each strike). Of course, I'm doing this by memory so I can't say for certain. But go ahead and count all the punches Thor took vs Kurse in their fight and the number of hits Thor had vs Hulk in Ragnarok.

Searched it. Found it. The debate was actually with you, too!

Here it is:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=653432&pagenumber=2

2. How can Kurse be a peer to Hulk if we never see him replicate feats like stopping a Leviathan?

Speculation?

3. Yeah? And you realize that in the Kurse scene, just before Loki stabbed him, Thor was fine?

On the other hand, in Ragnarok, Hulk's punches resulted in Thor going unconsious and ultimately turning God-mode.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
2. How can Kurse be a peer to Hulk if we never see him replicate feats like stopping a Leviathan?

Speculation?

3. Yeah? And you realize that in the Kurse scene, just before Loki stabbed him, Thor was fine?

On the other hand, in Ragnarok, Hulk's punches resulted in Thor going unconsious and ultimately making God-mode.

2. Peer+, based on his performance against Thor (and his punches) thru powerscaling.

We already discussed this.

3. We certainly have different interpretations on that scene. I see a Thor all beaten up and unable to stand or defend himself against Kurse. Without Loki's interference, it is clear that he would have lost that fight.

On the Hulk fight, he clearly was able to stand up and was perfectly still able to fight on his own without interference after suffering a full ground and pound. And he was not unconscious, he was dazed. Biiiig difference there. He easily recovered, retaliated and had Hulk on the ropes.

Dude. We already covered all this in the last debate. It looks like we went back to page 2 on that very thread and we're rehashing the same arguments.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
2. Peer+, based on his performance against Thor (and his punches) thru powerscaling.

We already discussed this.

3. We certainly have different interpretations on that scene. I see a Thor all beaten up and unable to stand or defend himself against Kurse. Without Loki's interference, it is clear that he would have lost that fight.

On the Hulk fight, he clearly was able to stand up and was perfectly still able to fight on his own without interference after suffering a full ground and pound. And he was not unconscious, he was dazed. Biiiig difference there. He easily recovered, retaliated and had Hulk on the ropes.

Dude. We already covered all this in the last debate. It looks like we went back to page 2 on that very thread and we're rehashing the same arguments.

2. Again, how can you powerscale something like that when you don't actually know how much power they are applying? Specially when the attacks are different

(The only similar attack between both scenes is when Thor is lying on the ground getting punched.)

3. This is important

Thor was unable to stand up, and yet he didn't "dazed" (to me he was unconcious); he was staring back at Kurse just fine.

Now Thor stood up to Hulk because he entered God-mode! Thor hadn't unlock that power back in Dark World. The fact that Thor stood up to Hulk is the result of him boosting up due to the God-Mode ability, not because Hulk didn't defeat his Pre-Ragnarok form.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
2. Again, how can you powerscale something like that when you don't actually know how much power they are applying? Specially when the attacks are different

(The only similar attack between both scenes is when Thor is lying on the ground getting punched.)

3. This is important

Thor was unable to stand up, and yet he didn't "dazed" (to me he was unconcious), he was staring just fine back at Kurse.

Now Thor stood up because he entered God-mode! Thor hadn't unlock that power back in Dark World. The fact that Thor stood up to Hulk is the result of him boosting up due to the God-Mode ability, not because Hulk didn't beat his Pre-Ragnarok form.

2. Because we can see the effect it is having on the character in question. Kurse's punches are provably shown to be more effective to Thor than Hulk's. Thus his punches are more effective.

3. Let me quote our last debate. Again, we already covered this man.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
He didn't "went unconscious", he was stunned (his eyes were clearly open as Hulk was punching him) but he recovered from it (in fact, we can see Thor slowly recovering from it as he unleashes his charged punch). There is really no indication that going God-mode that time made him recover from damage like he does when he touches his weapon and summons whatever healing power those things give him.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
2. Because we can see the effect it is having on the character in question. Kurse's punches are provably shown to be more effective to Thor than Hulk's. Thus his punches are more effective.

3. Let me quote our last debate. Again, we already covered this man.

Lets make this a single post since both lines of debate have merged now it seems.

Did Thor entered God-Mode after he was "stunned" by Hulk's punches?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Lets make this a single post since both lines of debate have merged now it seems.

Did Thor entered God-Mode after he was "stunned" by Hulk's punches?

Well, you know the answer to that.

I have a better question. What is God-Mode?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
2. How can Kurse be a peer to Hulk if we never see him replicate feats like stopping a Leviathan?

Speculation?

3. Yeah? And you realize that in the Kurse scene, just before Loki stabbed him, Thor was fine?

On the other hand, in Ragnarok, Hulk's punches resulted in Thor going unconsious and ultimately turning God-mode.

The boulder throw is higher than the leviathan feat.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Ironic statement given you dont wanna use direct comparisons against Hulk and Thor when it comes to bullets. Because it's not possible and also goes against the writer's intent.

Originally posted by h1a8

Because it's not possible and also goes against the writer's intent.


Of course its possible. Hulk has taken aircraft fire, and Thor has consistently proved himself as durable as Hulk.


You know your trolling of writers intentions is getting pretty annoying. I might have to get a mod to shut you down on that.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Of course its possible. Hulk has taken aircraft fire, and Thor has consistently proved himself as durable as Hulk.


You know your trolling of writers intentions is getting pretty annoying. I might have to get a mod to shut you down on that.

How has Thor proved this when he is not aircraft bullet proof?

Thor ran from the bullets. If Thor was resistant in the writer's mind then he wouldn't had Thor do such things.

In other words, writer thinks, "aircraft bullets will hurt Thor, so I will have him run from them."

You are saying that the writer is thinking, "Thor is resistant against aircraft bullets. But I'm going to have him run from the bullets to trick the audience."


Do what you like.

Originally posted by h1a8
The boulder throw is higher than the leviathan feat.
Because it's not possible and also goes against the writer's intent.

Let me guess, based on your numbers?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Well, you know the answer to that.

Did Thor enter God-Mode with Kurse?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I have a better question. What is God-Mode?

Have you entered full troll now?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Did Thor enter God-Mode with Kurse?

Dude, just straight debate man. This question-thing is kinda disrespectful. Let's not go that way.

You know the answers to those questions so present your argument.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Dude, just straight debate man. This question-thing is kinda disrespectful. Let's not go that way.

You know the answers to those questions so present your argument.

Just to make things clear.

Its evident then that Thor unlocked an ability never seen before. He was stunned by Hulk whereas Kurse didnt. Then he stood up with his eyes glowing blue and with a fist covered with electricity.

There is no evidence to suggest that without this ability Thor would have recovered from Hulk's beating. He was already stunned (To me he was going onconcious).

Kurse beat a pre-Ragnarok Thor whereas Hulk defeated Pre-Ragnarok Thor. From the moment Thor stood up with his eyes glowing he is another level from what we saw before.

So using Thor as a power scale isnt as viable.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Just to make things clear.

Its evident then that Thor unlocked an ability never seen before. He was stunned by Hulk whereas Kurse didnt. Then he stood up with his eyes glowing blue and with a fist covered with electricity.

There is no evidence to suggest that without this ability Thor would have recovered from Hulk's beating. He was already stunned (To me he was going onconcious).

Kurse beat a pre-Ragnarok Thor whereas Hulk defeated Pre-Ragnarok Thor. From the moment Thor stood up with his eyes glowing he is another level from what we saw before.

So using Thor as a power scale isnt as viable.

I don't remember the god-mode as ever being alluded as being able to heal Thor. Most damning evidence would be during the Neutron star "feat". He needed Stormbreaker to recover from it, else he'd have died. Had he the ability to to heal just by simply going God-mode, he would have while he was smoking on the floor (since he had no idea how much longer the axe would have taken).

Burden of proof is onto you if you want to show that god-mode somehow healed up all the damage Thor took from the beatdown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcLmyi46VYA

Also, Thor was not unconscious. He was dazed. His eyes were clearly open, his fists clenched after a hit (3:14) and all it did was make him think about Odin for a few seconds. If anything, from his expression (3:19), it actually looked like the ground and pound pissed him off and he just lightning-punched his way out of it. Kinda the same as how Hulk got pissed off and grabbed the hammer prior to the ground and pound.

It is very possible for Thor to simply fight out of and recover from a GnP. As it actually happens (albeit not too common) for people (happens in MMA) to be able to fight out of and recover from ground and pounds (even after being dazed).

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I don't remember the god-mode as ever being alluded as being able to heal Thor. Most damning evidence would be during the Neutron star "feat". He needed Stormbreaker to recover from it, else he'd have died. Had he the ability to to heal just by simply going God-mode, he would have while he was smoking on the floor (since he had no idea how much longer the axe would have taken).

Burden of proof is onto you if you want to show that god-mode somehow healed up all the damage Thor took from the beatdown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcLmyi46VYA

Also, Thor was not unconscious. He was dazed. His eyes were clearly open, his fists clenched after a hit (3:14) and all it did was make him think about Odin for a few seconds. If anything, from his expression (3:19), it actually looked like the ground and pound pissed him off and he just lightning-punched his way out of it. Kinda the same as how Hulk got pissed off and grabbed the hammer prior to the ground and pound.

It is very possible for Thor to simply fight out of and recover from a GnP. As it actually happens (albeit not too common) for people (happens in MMA) to be able to fight out of and recover from ground and pounds (even after being dazed).

Depends on your definition of healing. Also, who said anything about curing? The fact that God-Mode can for instance recover the stamina of Thor and enhance his durability doesnt mean it cures injuries.

And still, the fact that Thor used God Mode already makes the Hulk feat different from the one with Kurse.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1) Depends on your definition of healing. Also, who said anything about curing? The fact that God-Mode can for instance recover the stamina of Thor and enhance his durability doesnt mean it cures injuries.

2) And still, the fact that Thor used God Mode already makes the Hulk feat different from the one with Kurse.

1) Those are some very specific very not-alluded-to conditions for your argument to make sense, though.

2) It doesn't, as Thor recovering has nothing to do with the god-mode ability until proof is provided. Burden of proof and all that.

And he didn't "use" god-mode moreso than those powers were already within him from the very beginning (see also: avengers 2 also see: below), he just got dependent on the hammer.

Here is the script of the fight between Thor and Hulk that I found via google:

https://waltdisneystudiosawards.com/media/scripts/thor_ragnarok.pdf

Looks like he instinctively punched up as a defense mechanism (many fighters demonstrate this when they instinctively cover up after getting dazed/stunned).

Nothing in the script even mentions Thor being healed or getting stronger or getting new levels of durability. Personally, I don't see anything in the fight that alludes to that as well. And since it is very possible to recover from getting dazed, I will have to re-state my interpretation that it was simply Thor recovering and throwing off Hulk with a lightning punch.

Why is the leviathan more impressive than shutting down a forcefield powered by the bifrost?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) Those are some very specific very not-alluded-to conditions for your argument to make sense, though.

2) It doesn't, as Thor recovering has nothing to do with the god-mode ability until proof is provided. Burden of proof and all that.

And he didn't "use" god-mode moreso than those powers were already within him from the very beginning (see also: avengers 2 also see: below), he just got dependent on the hammer.

Here is the script of the fight between Thor and Hulk that I found via google:

https://waltdisneystudiosawards.com/media/scripts/thor_ragnarok.pdf

Looks like he instinctively punched up as a defense mechanism (many fighters demonstrate this when they instinctively cover up after getting dazed/stunned).

Nothing in the script even mentions Thor being healed or getting stronger or getting new levels of durability. Personally, I don't see anything in the fight that alludes to that as well. And since it is very possible to recover from getting dazed, I will have to re-state my interpretation that it was simply Thor recovering and throwing off Hulk with a lightning punch.

Doesnt matter how you want to dance this arround Nibe.

Fact is Thor used a new ability against Hulk whereas he didnt with Kurse.

That very fact makes both fights VERY DIFFERENT and ergo not to be compared.

He punched up with a charged fist product of the God Mode ability. He didnt used that ability against Kurse, therefore there is no evidence to suggest that the samething wouldnt have happened with Kurse.

It dissent matter because we have direct comparisons of the attacks he did do.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
It dissent matter because we have direct comparisons of the attacks he did do.

Thor uses God Mode in one scene whereas in the other he didnt.

Do you call that a direct comparison?

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Why is the leviathan more impressive than shutting down a forcefield powered by the bifrost? To play devil's advocate, you can't quantity the latter.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Doesnt matter how you want to dance this arround Nibe.

Fact is Thor used a new ability against Hulk whereas he didnt with Kurse.

That very fact makes both fights VERY DIFFERENT and ergo not to be compared.

He punched up with a charged fist product of the God Mode ability. He didnt used that ability against Kurse, therefore there is no evidence to suggest that the samething wouldnt have happened with Kurse.

It's not "dancing around" to ask for proof. "Dancing around" is what happens when you are asked to provide proof and you do not do so.

The new ability is hammerless lightning. We are not using his lightning to guage anything. We are using his (non-enhanced) punches and his durability. None of w/c were changed during the god-mode.

That's not the point. But I can see where the misunderstanding is now. I never meant/alluded to Thor being unable to bust out of Kurse's beatdown if he didn't have god-mode. He may very well have been able to.

The point is actually: recovery time after each separate beatdown and how long it took for Thor to get back on his feet. It took far longer to recover from Kurse's beatdown than Hulk. We covered this in our last debate:

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Bottom line is in the results (few seconds recovery vs half a minute).

A few seconds to recover from Hulk, half a minute to recover from Kurse's beatdown.

Kurse barely moving after receiving body shots from Thor @00:35:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJneSSYTZFo&t=100s


Hulk visibly wincing and clearly pained after receiving body shots from Thor @2:48:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u40lpOr07Vo


And that's really all we need to know that Kurse wins this.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
It's not "dancing around" to ask for proof. "Dancing around" is what happens when you are asked to provide proof and you do not do so.

The new ability is hammerless lightning. We are not using his lightning to guage anything. We are using his (non-enhanced) punches and his durability. None of w/c were changed during the god-mode.

That's not the point. But I can see where the misunderstanding is now. I never meant/alluded to Thor being unable to bust out of Kurse's beatdown if he didn't have god-mode. He may very well have been able to.

The point is actually: recovery time after each separate beatdown and how long it took for Thor to get back on his feet. It took far longer to recover from Kurse's beatdown than Hulk. We covered this in our last debate:



A few seconds to recover from Hulk, half a minute to recover from Kurse's beatdown.

There is no official description of the God-Mode attributes, at least i havent been able to find any. Therefore i cant bring evidence just like you cant.

All we know is that God-Mode seems to boost Thor's power.

So am not dancing arround anything. Am being objective.

Thor used a new ability against Hulk, which he didnt against Kurse. That alone is enough to make both feats different.

He used God-mode. That alters the feat and makes posible to attribute Thor's faster recovery to the new ability.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Why is the leviathan more impressive than shutting down a forcefield powered by the bifrost?

Because we can calculate the weight of the animal based on his proportions. The prison's shield strength on the other hand is an unknown.


One is a solid feat the other an assumption.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Have you entered full troll now?


I mean what is God-Mode to you you?

Because its clearly a fan made name as it was never mentioned in the film.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I mean what is God-Mode to you you?

Because its clearly a fan made name as it was never mentioned in the film.

Its the term used to describe Thor's Super Sayayin Blue ability. Its a fan name as you said.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Its the term used to describe Thor's Super Sayayin Blue ability. Its a fan name as you said.


Right so his Lightning ability.

Not his healing ability

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Right so his Lightning ability.

Not his healing ability

Thats speculation.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Thats speculation.

Basically you're inventing stuff and then using them in a debate?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
There is no official description of the God-Mode attributes, at least i havent been able to find any. Therefore i cant bring evidence just like you cant.

All we know is that God-Mode seems to boost Thor's power.

So am not dancing arround anything. Am being objective.

Thor used a new ability against Hulk, which he didnt against Kurse. That alone is enough to make both feats different.

He used God-mode. That alters the feat and makes posible to attribute Thor's faster recovery to the new ability.

Was not asking for official descriptions of God-mode attributes. Was asking for proof that God-mode enhances durability/toughness/etc or anything that would affect his recovery/resistance to injury/etc as that is the very premise of your argument.

How are you being objective when you can't provide evidence on something existing yet choose to argue it?

This is about Kurse vs Hulk and Thor is simply being used as a metric. We are using Thor's (non-enhanced) punches' effect on both and Thor's durability/ability to recover/resistance vs the punches of either. Neither one of those are affected by Thor's god-mode/lack thereof. This was already covered in our last debate.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Basically you're inventing stuff and then using them in a debate?

Basically you are not in this debate.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Basically you are not in this debate.

It's a public debate for the members of this forum. You want a private debate, I suggest using PMs.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Was not asking for official descriptions of God-mode attributes. Was asking for proof that God-mode enhances durability/toughness/etc or anything that would affect his recovery/resistance to injury/etc as that is the very premise of your argument.

How are you being objective when you can't provide evidence on something existing yet choose to argue it?

This is about Kurse vs Hulk and Thor is simply being used as a metric. We are using Thor's (non-enhanced) punches' effect on both and Thor's durability/ability to recover/resistance vs the punches of either. Neither one of those are affected by Thor's god-mode/lack thereof. This was already covered in our last debate.

Hulk beats Thor so badly he is stunned and even has visions of his dead father.

Hela beats Thor so badly he is static whilst she insults him and shames him.

Suddenly, in both scenes, Thor activates God-Mode. He punches Hulk and stands up just fine like if nothing had happen. He summons a massive lightning over Hela, and then walks to kill a bounch of dead asgardian soldiers like if he never faced Hela.

Clearly for some reason Thor's strength was recovered after the God-Mode activation. Coincidence? No, to me the God-Mode boosts Thor's abilities, including stamina/strength.

Do you want me to bring the clips?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Thats speculation.


Lol youre the one making up abilities and then throwing speculation accusations at me...

Whatever dude