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What happens in an actual 1 vs. 1 fight between a serious Luke and spirit Kun on Yavin IV?

Out of all threads you made, this is the worst

Oh wow, just read this.

That is the point lol. On his own spirit Kun is canonically much weaker

Exar Kun is not capable of taking Luke if he was alive.

How would Kun win if he was dead?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Oh wow, just read this.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Oh wow, just read this. Doesn't that first reason pretty much describe Obi-Wan moreso than Anakin?

Also any breakdown that tears down Kun is a great breakdown to me.

Kun has some esoteric bullshit, but in a battle of pure power, he is an insect.

Kun one-shots again

Kun empowered Kyp to defeat a Luke twice as powerful as he'd been in DE. Both the techniques Kun uses and the power he has makes this a moot question. JA Luke was literally defenseless against Kun, so even if you argue Luke is stronger he can't win.

A quote explicitly says that JA Luke is too powerful for Exar Kun to handle.

Ayyy, this should be good.

I'm willing to bet all of DMB's weed that this quote won't actually imply anything close to Elim's statement.

I'm 99% certain I know what he's referring to.

Well according to the JA sourcebook when Kun masqueraded as Anakin and was exposed he was too weak to do anything to Luke so he had to bail. I think Kuns Amp of Kyp might have him just unleashing Kyps potential rather than him empowering him. Or maybe it was a combination of both who knows~

He bailed because the illusion drained all of his energy... hence he drained Gantoris right after.

Does Spirit Kun benefit of his Yavin 4 amps?

He couldn't use them as an amp, he used them to anchor his spirit. Like every damn Sith spirit ever does.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He couldn't use them as an amp, he used them to anchor his spirit. Like every damn Sith spirit ever does.

What are you talking about there? He didn't anchor his spirit; the Jedi did. Initially he wanted to escape by leaving his body.

I never implied that spirit Kun>flesh Kun because he uses the temple's energies. All I said is that Kun needs those energies to fight because he is too weak.

What? The Jedi trapped Kun's spirit on Yavin IV with a wall of light, Kun then had no choice but to anchor his spirit to the focal points of the temples on the planet.

AP is winning...

Originally posted by AncientPower
What? The Jedi trapped Kun's spirit on Yavin IV with a wall of light, Kun then had no choice but to anchor his spirit to the focal points of the temples on the planet.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He couldn't use them as an amp,

Where does it say that?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Where does it say that?

Because it wouldn't qualify as an amp due to the fact that Exar Kun spirit<Exar Kun flesh.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd


So apparently Gnost-Dural is infallible, that's actually really helpful.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Where does it say that?

Dark Side Sourcebook:


There's also the fact Spirit Kun's amplification of Kyp was far greater than the power Kyp drew from the Great Temple during the Suncrusher feat.

The quote literally says Kun is drawing on the "remarkable energies" of Yavin's DS nexus. It quite clearly states he's amped. Sure, he's drawing on those energies to resist being torn apart as well, but that doesn't suddenly mean he can't use them for other methods.

Your continued mental gymnastics are amusing.

"Merge with the Dark Side"
"Drawing on the incredible focusing energies"

Feel free to explain why:

1.Kun's own power was a far greater amplification than that of the Great Temple for Kyp.
2.Kun's outright stated to be completely inert without draining energy from the students, despite this 'amp' being ever present.

Don't worry, I'll wait.

Originally posted by AncientPower
1.Kun's own power was a far greater amplification than that of the Great Temple for Kyp.

Citation

Pretty sure Exar wasn't just adding to Kyp's power with his own; he was drawing out his potential. So it's possibly:

Kyp (who has had more time to grow into his power) + unlocked potential + Exar Kun's own power (which = spirit Kun + nexus)



Citati-wait, then doesn't Luke win? mmm

I don't see much evidence for Exar Kun winning this, frankly.

- It's outright stated that when Luke arrives, he is too powerful for Exar Kun to handle.

- In the confrontation, Luke never actually attacks Kyp or Exar, is blindsided by Exar's sorcery from the flanks, and Kyp's power is directly mentioned to be the primary cause of his defeat, with Exar mainly banking on sorcery and drawing out Kyp's potential. He played a role close to what Leia did for Luke in the last duel of DE.

- spirit Luke, presumably not drawing on the dark side nexus on Yavin at all, makes spirit Kun run away just by charging at him even after Exar was boasting about how he had several thousand years to adjust to being a spirit and so would be more powerful.

- DE Luke will be more willing to fight seriously than JA Luke, and he was just some elementary BM from a trainee Leia away from disarming the reborn Palpatine, who is miles above even full power Kun.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Citation.



Originally posted by The Ellimist
Pretty sure Exar wasn't just adding to Kyp's power with his own; he was drawing out his potential. So it's possibly:

Kyp (who has had more time to grow into his power) + unlocked potential + Exar Kun's own power (which = spirit Kun + nexus)

The whole basis of that argument is this quote:



As if 'full might' doesn't just mean Kyp going all-out. It also completely fails to factor in this:



Even worse, when an enraged Kyp attacks a prepared Horn with telekinesis, he can absorb it. When Kyp is empowered by Kun's spirit, he gets slammed into the wall, let's also not forget that Kun was multitasking too:



More over, sources confirm that Kun was making Kyp stronger and bolstered him when he attacked Luke:



Nor does it factor in this:




Originally posted by The Ellimist
Citati-wait, then doesn't Luke win? mmm

Depends, is this spirit Kun at the height of his power or is this spirit Kun without having drained any of the students?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I don't see much evidence for Exar Kun winning this, frankly.

I'm shocked.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
- It's outright stated that when Luke arrives, he is too powerful for Exar Kun to handle.

Yes, because his spirit has no Force reserves and has to feed on latent emotional energy, and the reserves of the students:



Originally posted by The Ellimist
- In the confrontation, Luke never actually attacks Kyp or Exar, is blindsided by Exar's sorcery from the flanks, and Kyp's power is directly mentioned to be the primary cause of his defeat, with Exar mainly banking on sorcery and drawing out Kyp's potential. He played a role close to what Leia did for Luke in the last duel of DE.

He's using any efensive technique he knows and that fails utterly. Meaning he's defenseless against said techniques. Noting that Luke is actually prepared with 'all the power of the Force' prior to them attacking him:



Originally posted by The Ellimist
- spirit Luke, presumably not drawing on the dark side nexus on Yavin at all, makes spirit Kun run away just by charging at him even after Exar was boasting about how he had several thousand years to adjust to being a spirit and so would be more powerful.

You mean that Luke tries to tackle his spirit, Kun is taken off-guard by his attempt, but Kun doesn't really care?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
- DE Luke will be more willing to fight seriously than JA Luke, and he was just some elementary BM from a trainee Leia away from disarming the reborn Palpatine, who is miles above even full power Kun.

That'd be relevant if:

1.As I've mentioned prior to this, Luke had summoned 'all the power of the Force' and sought any defensive technique, prior to them attacking him. Then being incapable of striking back once Kun joined the attacked, indicating that Luke may well have been capable of attacking Kyp in return if not for Kun stopping him by adding his own attack.

2.Luke hadn't been stated to have doubled in power since DE.

3.Kun hadn't already expended energy summoning the Suncrusher prior to this contest.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Feel free to explain why:

1.Kun's own power was a far greater amplification than that of the Great Temple for Kyp.
This right there confirms Kun had his own power, thanks. BTW, why would it be a far greater amplification?

Originally posted by AncientPower
2.Kun's outright stated to be completely inert without draining energy from the students, despite this 'amp' being ever present.
Citation needed for him being "completely inert". Seems like he didn't have trouble casting dark side tendrils or choking the air out of Luke's praxeum.

How did you possibly read that and miss the obvious fact that Kun was feeding on emotions and, in the case of Gantoris, draining their energy completely?

So your response to the fact that Kyp and Exar were tag teaming Luke is to point out that Kyp and Exar were tag teaming Luke?

BTW, you need a stronger citation for your only excuse for the above - that Exar Kun had been drained by drawing out the sun crusher. Corran Horn has literally no grounds to know how each event would have drained him, and Kyp himself doesn't seem particularly fatigued. The fact of the matter is that Kyp Durron is clearly the main contender in that fight according to several sources that describe Exar Kun's involvement in the context of bolstering Kyp's talents to help him win. That isn't a feat for Exar being able to win in a 1-1 fight, given that he runs away when Luke's spirit attacks him (which apparently was just because he was "caught by surprise" even though you don't seem to care that Luke was caught by surprise in his fight against the duo...hmmm...).

Not that any of this even matters because you've seemingly acknowledged that Exar Kun would be totally helpless without external power sources anyway. Funnily enough Luke's spirit wasn't dormant even though he has no such nexuses.

Originally posted by AncientPower
How did you possibly read that and miss the obvious fact that Kun was feeding on emotions and, in the case of Gantoris, draining their energy completely? So what you're arguing is that Kun was and could grow more powerful in that story due to external energies?

Yet, there's no possible way he could have drew on power from the dark side nexus?

Originally posted by MythLord
This right there confirms Kun had his own power, thanks. BTW, why would it be a far greater amplification?


Citation needed for him being "completely inert". Seems like he didn't have trouble casting dark side tendrils or choking the air out of Luke's praxeum.

You should probably read the post prior to that. Kun is forced into a slumber because he's too weak even with his spirit anchored, he can subside on the emotional energy of Force-users to prevent that. He slowly built up strength by feeding on Gantoris' emotion to make an illusion of Anakin Skywalker, when it failed his energy was drained and he was forced to taunt Gantoris into even greater hate, but Gantoris turns on him so he drains him outright. In the case of Kyp, his hate was strong enough to make his spirit quite powerful and it's the energies of Gantoris with the emotional energy provided by Kyp that Kun uses in turn to amplify Kyp. He bolsters Kyp's power slowly over time and with Kun's power he takes Luke out:





Originally posted by One Big Mob
So what you're arguing is that Kun was and could grow more powerful in that story due to external energies?

Yet, there's no possible way he could have drew on power from the dark side nexus?

He was using the amp to anchor his spirit, as all Sith spirits did. As I've already shown, Exar Kun's spirit whilst using the emotions of Kyp Durron and the energies he obtained from draining Gantoris was a far greater amplification of Kyp than the Great Temple's focal point was.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
So your response to the fact that Kyp and Exar were tag teaming Luke is to point out that Kyp and Exar were tag teaming Luke?

BTW, you need a stronger citation for your only excuse for the above - that Exar Kun had been drained by drawing out the sun crusher. Corran Horn has literally no grounds to know how each event would have drained him, and Kyp himself doesn't seem particularly fatigued. The fact of the matter is that Kyp Durron is clearly the main contender in that fight according to several sources that describe Exar Kun's involvement in the context of bolstering Kyp's talents to help him win. That isn't a feat for Exar being able to win in a 1-1 fight, given that he runs away when Luke's spirit attacks him (which apparently was just because he was "caught by surprise" even though you don't seem to care that Luke was caught by surprise in his fight against the duo...hmmm...).

Not that any of this even matters because you've seemingly acknowledged that Exar Kun would be totally helpless without external power sources anyway. Funnily enough Luke's spirit wasn't dormant even though he has no such nexuses.

Except for the fact that Luke still has the strength to attempt to strike back at Kyp. It's only when Kun intervenes and attacks Luke that he's overwhelmed properly.

Wait, so I've provided two paragraphs stating that Kun's borrowed energy can be drained quite quickly. But you're saying that Horn postulating that Kun aiding Kyp with far more strenuous activities; such as the Suncrusher feat, is suddenly baseless? It's common sense, Ell. Horn's only stating the obvious. Which is also why Kun's spirit is described as largely dormant after the fact, in two sources no less. Unless you think downing Luke is less impressive a feat than controlling animals and using an illusion on Streen. It's also telling that Kun was outright maintaining his control over Luke's spirit the whole time, which is why Luke can only return to his body when Kun's spirit is destroyed.

I've already established that an enraged Kyp couldn't overwhelm a prepared Horn. Yet when amped by Kun, whilst Kun's multitasking with his power no less, they blast Horn with TK so hard that he's knocked out. That's a pretty massive difference.

So yes, Kun's spirit without Force-users to feed off of like a parasite is pretty helpless. Indeed:



Ah, the glorious implications.

de lukd sotmps

Luke

>Literally disproving far more credible Luke reppers on the thread.
>Still claiming Luke can win.

@Ap Having an opinion on a public forum is banned now. Yikes.

No, but ignoring the arguments put forth by myself and Ellimist; the biggest NJO/LotF/FotJ authority on this board, is pretty inconsiderate.

@Ap I'm not ignoring anything, merely providing my own opinion, I'm enjoying the debate.