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who wins

Obi and Grievous.

Greivous can take Maul or Savage.

Obi can take Maul or Savage.

Take your pick.

I'll go with Kenobi and Grievous. Good fight.

Kenobi solos if this is his RotS version.

Kenobi > Maul > Grievous > Savage

Originally posted by gold slorg
Kenobi > Maul > Grievous > Savage
Obi> Maul or Savage

Greivous>Maul or Savage

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Kenobi solos if this is his RotS version.

Against SOD Maul?? Absolutely not

You're right actually. Maul as of SoD, cut up some magnaguards and got kicked by Grievous, Kenobi's done for.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Greivous can take Maul or Savage.



They have faced each other 3 times.

In the first one Grievous landed a magnificent kick (after sending Magnaguards to tire him out first), and after the magnificent kick, did nothing else.

2nd time Maul physically blitzed Grievous.

3rd time Maul casually TKd Grievous off a cliff.

So 2/3 to Maul, and 1/3 inconclusive. So How does Grievous best Maul?

Originally posted by RealistRacism
You're right actually. Maul as of SoD, cut up some magnaguards and got kicked by Grievous, Kenobi's done for.


We get it. You hate Maul.

Logically - all what Maul has to do is Force crushing Grievous, then Kenobi gets murderstomped.

But what a civilized fight.

Kenobi and Grievous.

Kenobi solos.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Kenobi solos.

He tried and failed to do that before.

Yeah, before he was significantly more powerful to the point he even bewildered Count Dookie.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Yeah, before he was significantly more powerful to the point he even bewildered Count Dookie.

The same Dooku who threw him across a room. That Dooku?

Yeah, the very same that could barely follow his movements.

Dooku>Kenobi as a force user, as duellists they are equal.

At the time of their fight in the Invisible Hand, you are probably correct but after Obi Wan defeats Anakin, following the well know precedent that confrontation - either physical or psychological - affects one's connection with the force, and considering how much Anakin meant to Obi Wan, it's not far fetched to assume he surpassed the Count in terms of lightsaber prowess or achieved parity regarding his understanding of the force.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
They have faced each other twice


I didn't realize we counted fights when only one combatant had their weapon out. You might note that the op states both fighters will have their lightsabers, hence this "fight" you're talking about can be discounted.

Would love proof that Maul's exhaustion from a couple seconds of fighting affects his bout with grievous.


Kenobi causally bisected Maul:
https://youtu.be/SKlLMRuOx10?t=265

And yet I'm sure you'd argue maul could beat tpm Kenobi.
I wonder why?

Follow up question: what's the point of pushing someone when it doesn't hurt him?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwicjr2z9JjeAhUmh-AKHUEsBWwQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstarwars.wikia.com%2Fwiki%2FTalzin&psig=AOvVaw2T21qYAoV_vtyGQhpTMT43&ust=1540258550886519


Well, as the comic you've referred to shows us:
-> he can tank Maul's force attacks
-> he can physically bypass Maul's guard
-> He can react to Maul's lightsaber strikes
As other feats have shown us:
-> he's faster than maul
-> he's more durable than maul
-> he's stronger than maul
As their fights vs TCW Kenobi show us:
-> he's a better martial combatant than Maul

I'd say you can build a solid case for grievous beating Maul using the above.

Grievous isn't beating Maul, he was repeatedly stalemated by pre prime Kenobi and destroyed by ROTS Kenobi was on par with TCW season 4 Kenobi who was vastly superior to the Kenobi Grievous fought against]. Maul's growth in season 5 should put him well above Grievous . While it's obvious Kenobi is a better fighter Maul can match him, something Grievous never could do as of ROTS.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Kenobi solos.

Originally posted by CuckedCurry


Tried that before, didn't work.

Originally posted by StarWarsFan77
Absolutely right once again

Thanks chief

Grievous is not > Maul, lmao.

Grievous might not even take Savage, nevermind Maul.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I didn't realize we counted fights when only one combatant had their weapon out. You might note that the op states both fighters will have their lightsabers, hence this "fight" you're talking about can be discounted.



Nice try Troll. But Maul only got his weapon out AFTER Physically Blitzing Grievous. He was simply faster and stronger.

Your hatred of Maul never ceases to surprise me.


Originally posted by Rockydonovang


Would love proof that Maul's exhaustion from a couple seconds of fighting affects his bout with grievous.





Who said it was a couple of seconds? Lmao

You cant time comic book scans. All we know for sure is Grievous himself KNEW he needed every advantage to have a fair shot at Maul.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang


Kenobi causally bisected Maul:
https://youtu.be/SKlLMRuOx10?t=265

And yet I'm sure you'd argue maul could beat tpm Kenobi.
I wonder why?

Follow up question: what's the point of pushing someone when it doesn't hurt him?




Because Obi-Wan didnt slice him mid-combat Dummy.

Wel aside from the fact that you have to be absurdly naeive to believe he wasnt hurt in the least after disappearing for so much time, it was a clear case of BFR. You know the same way Kanan overpowered Rebels Maul.

Difference was though Kanan fell to the floor right after, whereas Maul looked to check of Grievous was gone. He could have jumped after him and finished him. But he assumed he was already done for (as per the dialogue), and needed to go help Talzin.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang


Well, as the comic you've referred to shows us:
-> he can tank Maul's force attacks
-> he can physically bypass Maul's guard
-> He can react to Maul's lightsaber strikes
As other feats have shown us:
-> he's faster than maul
-> he's more durable than maul
-> he's stronger than maul
As their fights vs TCW Kenobi show us:
-> he's a better martial combatant than Maul

I'd say you can build a solid case for grievous beating Maul using the above.

Tank? Tank Mauls Tk? Do you even know what Tank means?

Being pushed off a cliff, and assumed dead by your opponent is not tanking you dimwit! Thats like saying Ashoka tanked Vaders TK when she was thrown off a the Temple edge.

Wait wait, so being TKd so far you cant be seen is nothing, but being Kicked once a few feet back is DA SHIT! You couldnt make it more apparent what an ignorant fanboy you are. Just stop this.

Oh yeah, sure Grievous is stronger and faster than Maul which is why Maul Physically Blitzed Grievous... Duh yeah obvious.

Maul always held his own against TCW Kenobi. Every single time. But if you want to play the game of anyone whose ever gotten the better of Kenobi is > Maul, then I guess Ventress, Cad Bane and Death Watchs assassin are all > Maul... I mean seriously facepalm

A better martial combatant than frigging Darth Maul? Muhahahha..

Just stop it before you make a further fool out of yourself. Next you will be claiming Old Man Maul from Rebels was Maul at his combat peak... Oh wait!


They have fought 3 times. The first time was inconclusive (although both combatants make it clear they know Maul is superior). The second Maul physically Blitzed Grievous, and the Third Maul casually TKd Grievous our of the fight.

Literally all your stringing to is the 1 kick, which is ludicrous when comparing to Mauls clear victories over Grievous. Ludicrous and Massively Desperate.

Kenobi solos.

^ Kenobi aint Sidious kid.

> implying you need to be Sidious level to take these scrubs.

But the list!!

kbro is still an retard though.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
> implying you need to be Sidious level to take these scrubs.


Sidious, Yoda, Mace or Anakin. Pretty much the top-tier list, yeah.

Although even Mace wasnt exactly blitzing Maul with back up.



Originally posted by Vitiate
But the list!!


Oh the list is Legendary...

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I didn't realize we counted fights when only one combatant had their weapon out. You might note that the op states both fighters will have their lightsabers, hence this "fight" you're talking about can be discounted.

Would love proof that Maul's exhaustion from a couple seconds of fighting affects his bout with grievous.


Kenobi causally bisected Maul:
https://youtu.be/SKlLMRuOx10?t=265

And yet I'm sure you'd argue maul could beat tpm Kenobi.
I wonder why?

Follow up question: what's the point of pushing someone when it doesn't hurt him?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwicjr2z9JjeAhUmh-AKHUEsBWwQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstarwars.wikia.com%2Fwiki%2FTalzin&psig=AOvVaw2T21qYAoV_vtyGQhpTMT43&ust=1540258550886519


Well, as the comic you've referred to shows us:
-> he can tank Maul's force attacks
-> he can physically bypass Maul's guard
-> He can react to Maul's lightsaber strikes
As other feats have shown us:
-> he's faster than maul
-> he's more durable than maul
-> he's stronger than maul
As their fights vs TCW Kenobi show us:
-> he's a better martial combatant than Maul

I'd say you can build a solid case for grievous beating Maul using the above.


Canon Grievous loses to Maul no question. Its a different story when it comes to legends. And I'm not sure whether to take what you say about Maul seriously. If its true that you are Kbroskywalker from CV , I've seen you lowball Maul loads of times, even going far as to say Ven Zallow>Maul, but you could just be trolling ??

^ He is and he does.


Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Yeah, before he was significantly more powerful to the point he even bewildered Count Dookie.


Maul also grew significantly better.

Filoni confirmed he wasnt fully capable as a combatant with his chicken legs, and Shadow Conspiracy confirms Maul was at a new peak by the time he and Opress faced Sidious.

TCW, the gold standard of consistency.

Team 2. Maul and Kenobi are very close, but Grievous beats Savage and then they gang up on Maul.

Obi Wan and Grievous for sure. Obi gave the bros a good fight on his own

I wouldn't say, that Kenobi's team takes it for sure. Both teams are very balanced.

Hard to tell, really. Maul and Kenobi are more or less equals. Savage and Grievous are much harder to judge. Both are really inconsistent in their fights.

Savage is confirmed to be stronger which each season, but his showings are worse. For me, his powers were retconed during TCW a little bit. In season 3, Dooku, Obi-Wan and Ventress all have a difficulty to even block his strikes. In season 4 he's still strong, as he's able to everhelm Kenobi's defense (with a kind of a bit surprise on Savage's side and maul's mere presence which may be a distraction for Kenobi), but both Kenobi and Venttress are capable to block his strikes in final fight. In season 5 he's stomped by Maul, and overhelms Adi only due to his superior raw power in the Force. And then he lost to Kenobi, while having Maul's support.

Grievous is also very inconsistent. He has one or two fights, when he's capable to overhelm Kenobi a little bit, he also gives Maul much better fight then Savage did. But he also is inferior to Ventress by a very small margin. And to Kit Fisto as well, I would say.

On the other hand, as I remember Savage was confirmed by Filowni to be > B-team members, wasn't he?

I'm really not sure which team is better. A split perhaps?

^ Well if we go by Filonis statements then Ventress was confirmed > Grievous.

However going by Legends or Canon id give Sabers to Grievous over Savage. Just dont see Savage having the experience to deal with Grievous skill and speed with multiple blades. Savages only shot would be his monstrous TK Imo.

Agree Maul and Kenobi are roughly equal, but Kenobi always seems to have the edge.

Team two should win. When everyone else deserves respect, and Maul, Kenobi and Grievous are all easily contenders for 120 IQ or even more, no contest, Savage has an IQ of 80 at best.

Don't get me wrong, Savage is not as dumb or Yoda or Sidious, he is still several orders above them mentally, but in this fight he's a weak link and is prone to making himself killed by Kenobi or Grievous.

@Darth Thor
For me, it was Maul who always had the edge, excluding their final fight. During TPM Maul was clearly better. In their first remach Maul had some small advantage over Kenobi. Worth of notion is, that Kenobi was terribly beaten shortly before, but I don't think that Maul was in good shape as well, since it was short after he was restored by Talzin.
Another time they met - I believe it was in "The Sith Hunters", wasn't it? - Maul just Force choked Kenobi, when he charged at him.
Fourth time was on Florrum. Kenobi fought Maul on very equal terms, none could find any kind of advantage, until Savage killed Adi and joined, brothers then overhelmed Kenobi and forcedd him to retreat. Shortly later, he fought them again, was Force choked by Maul, severed Savage arm and was Force pushed by Maul. And he kicked Savage's ass during that fight a lot of times... which actualy prove, that Savage was out of his league and Kenobi did a great work. kenobi was unable to gain an advantage over Maul to the very end of that fight.
They also met on Mandalore, after a crush of Kenobi's ship. Maul just came, and Force choked him. But yeah, Kenobi could be injured or exhausted, while Maul was fresh and had some support.

And Grievous is inconsistent even in Legends. He was unable to stomp minor jedi like Flynn Kybo in "Star Wars: General Grievous"; he was stomped by Dooku in training sesion in CW season 2 and by Mace's Force powers in the same source; he also had a hard time against Ventress in their first fight for CIS' army leadership (she overhelmed him a little bit at the end of fight with combination of her skills and Force, but he defeated her due to his enormous physcial advantage) in a comic that was basing on CW. In LoE Dooku confirms Grievous inferiority to jedi Masters of Shaak Ti or Cin Drallig's caliber, let alone Mace, Obi-Wan or Yoda. But..
Grievous managed to defeat both Asajj and Durge in CW comic, defeated a group of jedi Masters, including Ki-Adi and Skaak Ti, stalemated Mace in LoE, defeated Shaak Ti and other masters in CW 2nd season, and did many many more.
In TCW he's inconsistend as well as we all know. Not sure if it's safe to assume, that he would be Savage superior in sabers, even in Legends.

^ I like the Maul/ Kenobi analysis.

I personally did see them as equals until their final fight in Rebels which was just a disgraceful finale for them.

^
I had a very similar thoughts about their final in the past. But now, I changed my mind. It wasn't their skills that was deciding factor in their fight. Both were broken in the past, but Kenobi still had a goal - to sacrifice himself to protect Luke, his hope. It was very jedi-like. Maul was a Sith, when he lost his powers, he lost everything. He lost his family, army, power, he was pursued. After events in the Temple on Malachor he lost even his last hope.
During his fight with Kenobi Maul was just an empty shell and has nothing to fight for. That's why he lost.

^ Thats all fine, but to have it last 3 moves... was just bad, and really anti climactic, and a really crappy ending for Maul, who in hindsight actually had a pretty great ending originally in TPM.

Should have just had Palpatine kill him in The Lawless or in SOD.

This honestly comes down to which version of Grievous. Legends Grievous would be a massive game breaker.

Obi loses here. Maul is gonna turn Grievous into a tin can.

Legends Grievous solos in sabers pretty comfortably. Savage dies in seconds and Grievous proceeds to beat Maul in a semi good fight.

Originally posted by CuckedCurry
Legends Grievous solos in sabers pretty comfortably. Savage dies in seconds and Grievous proceeds to beat Maul in a semi good fight.
Pass DMB whatever you're smoking, I hear he's running dry on the good stuff.

Originally posted by CuckedCurry
Legends Grievous solos in sabers pretty comfortably. Savage dies in seconds and Grievous proceeds to beat Maul in a semi good fight.

Grievous doesn't benefit from the plot force power.

https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_hpimlvi.png

Op didn't say it's lightsabre combat type.

Freedon please

How is Legends Grievous superior to Maul in sabers?

Thats some warped logic.

But lets play. Legends Grievous has zero feats matching someone of Mauls caliber. The speed and strength advantages (as per Legends only) are kinda null when both Dooku and Kenobi outclassed him in fencing, and he was stated to not even be a match for Cin Drallig

Maul jobs and costs his team the victory

Originally posted by carthage
Maul jobs and costs his team the victory

Lol what? I guess you missed that scene where Maul stomps Savage with ease in TCW. He definitely isn't the weakest.

@CuckedCurry

Doesn't he? Grievous was clearly slower then ROTS Obi-Wan, who was jumping arround him and easily took two of his hands. The same Grievous was inferior (LoE) or far inferior (old CW) to Dooku in terms of speed and techniqe.
He, in fact, stomped a group of Jedi, including two powerful Masters - Shaak Ti and Ki-Adi Mundi. The problem is, that they had no idea what they are dealing with and were exhousted, possibly hurt (perhaps even after a massive starship crush).
You had a good example in TCW: Kenobi, exhausted after a small ship crush, was even unable to stom Maul from choking him.

In terms of strenght...what does it gives to Grievous? It was useful against unarmed combat against Kenobi, but in a duel? He wasn't even able to overpower him in saber lock. It wasn't even helpful against physically inferior Dooku.

As Darth Power pointed, Dooku even stated, that jedi like Cin Drallig should be superior to Grievous on neutral ground.
Even Asajj Ventress in a comic that was basing on old CW, was able to overhelm Grievous in pure lightsaber combat at some point.

Originally posted by McP

You had a good example in TCW: Kenobi, exhausted after a small ship crush, was even unable to stom Maul from choking him.



I wouldn't call that ship crash small.

Originally posted by CuckedCurry
Concession accepted
Whoever taught you that move wasn't a very good teacher.

I'm pretty sure Quan started that on the entire internet in 07-08

Originally posted by CactusJoe
Whoever taught you that move wasn't a very good teacher.

Must have been the same person that taught you that Maul & Savage > Grievous in sabers

Originally posted by CuckedCurry
Must have been the same person that taught you that Maul & Savage > Grievous in sabers

Grievous being better than Maul in sabers is nonsense, even TPM Maul stalemated season 4 Kenobi who was far closer to his prime than any Kenobi Grievous stalemated and that's ignoring Maul's growth as a fighter, Grievous got shit stomped by ROTS Kenobi.

^
There are some sources that are a parot of both, Canon and Legends. Movies are the best example, but so is TCW. Do not forget, that a great Legend's sources like "Darth Plagueis" are linked to sources like TCW. Is it you, who determine Legends borders? Or is it somewhere confirmed?

Originally posted by CuckedCurry
Must have been the same person that taught you that Maul & Savage > Grievous in sabers


Ah Grievous fanboys. Have to pity them.

^
Actually, I hate the fact that I have to argue that Savage could be nearly as strong, as strong or even stronger then Grievous. God, I hate Opress, Ahsoka and many other Filoni's characters.

Maul is quite different story.

Originally posted by McP
^
There are some sources that are a parot of both, Canon and Legends. Movies are the best example, but so is TCW. Do not forget, that a great Legend's sources like "Darth Plagueis" are linked to sources like TCW. Is it you, who determine Legends borders? Or is it somewhere confirmed?

TCW can't fully be Legends though, parts of it can, but wholly it cannot.

^
Why?

https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/vzkq30L.png


What? https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/rsz_12hfclde.png


Your point being?


I'm going to presume that you like to ignore Canon because you feel like it portrays Grievous as weak. Let's see if it's true.


Which showings does Grievous have to his name that would make him superior to Maul?


There's literally zero explanation or reasoning behind this.


Grievous lost to Kenobi, so this is relevant how exactly?




https://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/Smileys/default/YBIrkTh.png

Who are you, my sweet child?

Originally posted by CuckedCurry
Who are you, my sweet child?
https://i.imgur.com/Ey1KJ7X.jpg

Originally posted by McP
^
Why?

You know you can quote right?

But anyway, reason being...contradictions. Like...big ones. The characters that TCW introduced cannot be within Legends, as it really messes up the timeline outside of TCW of where they were when in TCW they were pretty much with the main SW crew nearly the entire time.

There's also the point of when TCW starts, which really screws the timeline compared to how it was before, so none of the events really done previously can happen at the same time.

Grevious is really different, there's no real way to justify his TCW being the same as what he's shown in the Micro series or the novels or the comics pre-dating the show.

Aurra Sing is another example, in Canon she's apparently just a bounty hunter, she isn't a former Jedi like she was previously.

Nightsisters being another, as they are all apparently darksiders in Canon...which not all of them were in Legends and they were all destroyed from what I recall in Canon so another reason.

Mandalorians being pacifists with Jango being dubbed a non-Mandalorian and all that noise.

I'm sure there's more but yeah, that's it really.

A monkey wrench was kinda thrown into everything when TCW came along, I won't say before it didn't have problems, but TCW seems like the bigger fish. It all works when dealing with Canon only, but Legends is a whole other thing.

Smaller/side things can fit however, just not the big obvious things.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
You know you can quote right?
I know.

Well, to be fair, there are similar defferences in old CW. It doesn't seem to has as many contradictions as TCW mostly because CW is much shorter. But there is some BS like Barris builid her lightsaber during the Clone Wars. And, obviously, the whole season two. In contradicts LoE in many ways, and I think ROTS novel makes it clear (as highest source of Legend's canon as I remember) that LoE's version is more acurate. LoE also somehow retcons that duel on Hypori.

Anyway, I have your point, which I agree with.

And I could argue Grievous though.

Originally posted by McP
I know.

Well, to be fair, there are similar defferences in old CW. It doesn't seem to has as many contradictions as TCW mostly because CW is much shorter. But there is some BS like Barris builid her lightsaber during the Clone Wars. And, obviously, the whole season two. In contradicts LoE in many ways, and I think ROTS novel makes it clear (as highest source of Legend's canon as I remember) that LoE's version is more acurate. LoE also somehow retcons that duel on Hypori.

Anyway, I have your point, which I agree with.

And I could argue Grievous though.

As said, pre-TCW wasn't perfect but TCW really throws everything for a loop. It works fine for Canon only though as a whole.

Plus it's not like there isn't Legends material that basically covers the whole Clone Wars. Why do we need TCW for it if the material is already there for Legends? That's a big slap in the face to those who worked on all that material.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
TCW can't fully be Legends though, parts of it can, but wholly it cannot.


It is though. Just as much as the Lucas films are.


Originally posted by Zenwolf
As said, pre-TCW wasn't perfect but TCW really throws everything for a loop. It works fine for Canon only though as a whole.



The contradiction was that Legends EU always took TCW as part of Legends Canon, hence The Ones being a big part of Legends.

However TCW, much like the movies, always contradicted the EU of the time without hesitation.

However neither Legends EU or TCW has Greivous beating anyone in Mauls caliber. Legends Grievous is a beast, but hes not taking one of the deadliest and highly trained Sith in the history of the Sith Order.

The films don't contradict nearly as much as TCW.

I'm not saying he does, but there is a difference between TCW Grevious and the Grevious shown prior.

TCW is apart of Legends, I'm not saying it isn't, but it can't be all of it.

But me thinks this is trailing off the topic here.

Well of course the films wont contradict as much, because theres only 6 films but who knows how many episodes.

Still massive contradictions though like Palpatine still being alive post ROTJ.

Its all Lucas work though (films and TCW) which was always taken as word of God by legends eu.

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2q1zra/respect_general_grievous/

Originally posted by CactusJoe
https://i.imgur.com/Ey1KJ7X.jpg

Originally posted by Lumine
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2q1zra/respect_general_grievous/

Fine, but that material suck a little bit. Lets start with author's double standards:
1. He choosed to use a CW's version of Hypori battle instead of LoE's, when Grievous' victory doesn't seem to be as great:
"Power moves served you well on Hypori against Jedi such as Daakman Barrek and Tarr Seir. But I pity you should you have to face off against any of the Council Masters." He called into hand his courtly, curve-handled lightsaber and drew a rapid X in the air - a Makashi flourish. "Do I need to demonstrate what responses you can expect from Cin Drallig or Obi-Wan Kenobi? From Mace Windu or, stars help you, Yoda?"
That quote strongly implys, that Grievous did not meet anyone of Council's caliber on Hypori. It's either retconing Hypori battle or confirms that Ki-Adi and Shaak Ti were that tired, that they could not be consider as Council's caliber warriors.
*In some versions of LoE Dooku lists Shaak Ti instead of Cin Drallig.
2. He choosed to use CW's version of Palpatine's kidnaping, when Grievous stomped Shaak Ti, while they haven't met in LoE.
3. He choosed to use LoE, when it was stated that Count Dooku was sometimes hard-pressed by Grievous, but forgot his favourite CW show, where Grievous was stomped by Dooku.
4. He used LoE version for Grievous duel with Mace, but again forgot his CW show, where Mace stomped Grievous with Force crush.
Awful, pathetic double standard.

And, most of those walls of text from ROTS novel are irrelevant, since most of them are just hyperbolic. You have to determine Grievous' speed by compare his speed with his enemies speed. And in that way, Grievous is not faster then most of top Jedi Masters. Or, assuming that he is, he's far inferior technically, that they can still comptete and even gaining an advantage.

Indeed, in Lgends Grievous stomped Adi Gallia. But it was one of those showings, where he did that exactly in that way that Dooku demanded - by having intimidation, fear and surprise on his side. He actually surprised Gallia with his four arms and due to that was able to kill her.

He also defeated Ventress and Durge, for the same reason - they had no idea, what they were dealing. Fear, intimidation and surprise again. But it should be noted, that at the end, Ventress managed to temporary gain the upper hand:
https://i.imgur.com/vZbNBFm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LJvCNsO.jpg

Anyway, I don't want to lowball Grievous at all. In fact, there was a kind of retcon of many sources during a years. Either Count Dooku or Mace Windu aren't as strong as they were before. Dooku got many embarrassing looses, and Mace... it is strongly suggested, that he's also inferior to his former self. He couldn't stomp Talzin in lighstaber combat the way Sidious did when she was in Dooku's body - and was confirmed to be inferior to him. He also couldn't find an advantage over Maul in their brief fight (he had also show an inferior perception to that of Maul's, since he was unable to dodge that explosion from rocket and lost conscious for a little while (and all of that was with Ayla's support on his side). Mace should be really, really happy that Filoni did not use him more often.

As a big fan of Luceno and LoE, I honestly agree the fact, that Grievous was sometimes able to give Dooku a trouble or stalemate Mace at some point. Even those last episodes of TCW (those unfinished) shows us, that Grievous was able to beat Obi-Wan. And as I remember, those episodes are canon, am I wrong?
Grievous also lands a nice kicks on Obi-Wan and Maul in last season of TCW and in SoD. He indeed is a deadly enemy. But overall, most of his showngs clearly puts him below Obi-Wan or Maul. He might defeat them, but surely not for majority.

Originally posted by McP
Fine, but that material suck a little bit. Lets start with author's double standards:
1. He choosed to use a CW's version of Hypori battle instead of LoE's, when Grievous' victory doesn't seem to be as great:
"Power moves served you well on Hypori against Jedi such as Daakman Barrek and Tarr Seir. But I pity you should you have to face off against any of the Council Masters." He called into hand his courtly, curve-handled lightsaber and drew a rapid X in the air - a Makashi flourish. "Do I need to demonstrate what responses you can expect from Cin Drallig or Obi-Wan Kenobi? From Mace Windu or, stars help you, Yoda?"
That quote strongly implys, that Grievous did not meet anyone of Council's caliber on Hypori. It's either retconing Hypori battle or confirms that Ki-Adi and Shaak Ti were that tired, that they could not be consider as Council's caliber warriors.
*In some versions of LoE Dooku lists Shaak Ti instead of Cin Drallig.
2. He choosed to use CW's version of Palpatine's kidnaping, when Grievous stomped Shaak Ti, while they haven't met in LoE.
3. He choosed to use LoE, when it was stated that Count Dooku was sometimes hard-pressed by Grievous, but forgot his favourite CW show, where Grievous was stomped by Dooku.
4. He used LoE version for Grievous duel with Mace, but again forgot his CW show, where Mace stomped Grievous with Force crush.
Awful, pathetic double standard.

And, most of those walls of text from ROTS novel are irrelevant, since most of them are just hyperbolic. You have to determine Grievous' speed by compare his speed with his enemies speed. And in that way, Grievous is not faster then most of top Jedi Masters. Or, assuming that he is, he's far inferior technically, that they can still comptete and even gaining an advantage.

Indeed, in Lgends Grievous stomped Adi Gallia. But it was one of those showings, where he did that exactly in that way that Dooku demanded - by having intimidation, fear and surprise on his side. He actually surprised Gallia with his four arms and due to that was able to kill her.

He also defeated Ventress and Durge, for the same reason - they had no idea, what they were dealing. Fear, intimidation and surprise again. But it should be noted, that at the end, Ventress managed to temporary gain the upper hand:
https://i.imgur.com/vZbNBFm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LJvCNsO.jpg

Anyway, I don't want to lowball Grievous at all. In fact, there was a kind of retcon of many sources during a years. Either Count Dooku or Mace Windu aren't as strong as they were before. Dooku got many embarrassing looses, and Mace... it is strongly suggested, that he's also inferior to his former self. He couldn't stomp Talzin in lighstaber combat the way Sidious did when she was in Dooku's body - and was confirmed to be inferior to him. He also couldn't find an advantage over Maul in their brief fight (he had also show an inferior perception to that of Maul's, since he was unable to dodge that explosion from rocket and lost conscious for a little while (and all of that was with Ayla's support on his side). Mace should be really, really happy that Filoni did not use him more often.

As a big fan of Luceno and LoE, I honestly agree the fact, that Grievous was sometimes able to give Dooku a trouble or stalemate Mace at some point. Even those last episodes of TCW (those unfinished) shows us, that Grievous was able to beat Obi-Wan. And as I remember, those episodes are canon, am I wrong?
Grievous also lands a nice kicks on Obi-Wan and Maul in last season of TCW and in SoD. He indeed is a deadly enemy. But overall, most of his showngs clearly puts him below Obi-Wan or Maul. He might defeat them, but surely not for majority. Nice job.

Originally posted by McP
Fine, but that material suck a little bit. Lets start with author's double standards:
1. He choosed to use a CW's version of Hypori battle instead of LoE's, when Grievous' victory doesn't seem to be as great:
"Power moves served you well on Hypori against Jedi such as Daakman Barrek and Tarr Seir. But I pity you should you have to face off against any of the Council Masters." He called into hand his courtly, curve-handled lightsaber and drew a rapid X in the air - a Makashi flourish. "Do I need to demonstrate what responses you can expect from Cin Drallig or Obi-Wan Kenobi? From Mace Windu or, stars help you, Yoda?"
That quote strongly implys, that Grievous did not meet anyone of Council's caliber on Hypori. It's either retconing Hypori battle or confirms that Ki-Adi and Shaak Ti were that tired, that they could not be consider as Council's caliber warriors.
*In some versions of LoE Dooku lists Shaak Ti instead of Cin Drallig.
2. He choosed to use CW's version of Palpatine's kidnaping, when Grievous stomped Shaak Ti, while they haven't met in LoE.
3. He choosed to use LoE, when it was stated that Count Dooku was sometimes hard-pressed by Grievous, but forgot his favourite CW show, where Grievous was stomped by Dooku.
4. He used LoE version for Grievous duel with Mace, but again forgot his CW show, where Mace stomped Grievous with Force crush.
Awful, pathetic double standard.

And, most of those walls of text from ROTS novel are irrelevant, since most of them are just hyperbolic. You have to determine Grievous' speed by compare his speed with his enemies speed. And in that way, Grievous is not faster then most of top Jedi Masters. Or, assuming that he is, he's far inferior technically, that they can still comptete and even gaining an advantage.

Indeed, in Lgends Grievous stomped Adi Gallia. But it was one of those showings, where he did that exactly in that way that Dooku demanded - by having intimidation, fear and surprise on his side. He actually surprised Gallia with his four arms and due to that was able to kill her.

He also defeated Ventress and Durge, for the same reason - they had no idea, what they were dealing. Fear, intimidation and surprise again. But it should be noted, that at the end, Ventress managed to temporary gain the upper hand:
https://i.imgur.com/vZbNBFm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LJvCNsO.jpg

Anyway, I don't want to lowball Grievous at all. In fact, there was a kind of retcon of many sources during a years. Either Count Dooku or Mace Windu aren't as strong as they were before. Dooku got many embarrassing looses, and Mace... it is strongly suggested, that he's also inferior to his former self. He couldn't stomp Talzin in lighstaber combat the way Sidious did when she was in Dooku's body - and was confirmed to be inferior to him. He also couldn't find an advantage over Maul in their brief fight (he had also show an inferior perception to that of Maul's, since he was unable to dodge that explosion from rocket and lost conscious for a little while (and all of that was with Ayla's support on his side). Mace should be really, really happy that Filoni did not use him more often.

As a big fan of Luceno and LoE, I honestly agree the fact, that Grievous was sometimes able to give Dooku a trouble or stalemate Mace at some point. Even those last episodes of TCW (those unfinished) shows us, that Grievous was able to beat Obi-Wan. And as I remember, those episodes are canon, am I wrong?
Grievous also lands a nice kicks on Obi-Wan and Maul in last season of TCW and in SoD. He indeed is a deadly enemy. But overall, most of his showngs clearly puts him below Obi-Wan or Maul. He might defeat them, but surely not for majority. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/general-grievous-respect-thread-1620576/

Originally posted by Lumine
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/general-grievous-respect-thread-1620576/

You can use my prievous asnwer to this as well. Double standards again. Anything, to just prove, that author's favourite character is a boss. That sad, tbh. And perhaps I'll copy Maul's or Obi-Wan's respect thread here next time, discussion will be more like you like it.

Originally posted by McP
You can use my prievous asnwer to this as well. Double standards again. Anything, to just prove, that author's favourite character is a boss. That sad, tbh. And perhaps I'll copy Maul's or Obi-Wan's respect thread here next time, discussion will be more like you like it. I'm not on either side. Just trying to give a link to help those in discussion.

Ouch, since it's Grievous' thread, I thought it's your answer for GG's superiority. Nevermind then.

Originally posted by McP
Ouch, since it's Grievous' thread, I thought it's your answer for GG's superiority. Nevermind then. people underestimate Greivous, just wanted to make it clear that he isn't a sitting duck.

Originally posted by McP
Fine, but that material suck a little bit. Lets start with author's double standards:
1. He choosed to use a CW's version of Hypori battle instead of LoE's, when Grievous' victory doesn't seem to be as great:
"Power moves served you well on Hypori against Jedi such as Daakman Barrek and Tarr Seir. But I pity you should you have to face off against any of the Council Masters." He called into hand his courtly, curve-handled lightsaber and drew a rapid X in the air - a Makashi flourish. "Do I need to demonstrate what responses you can expect from Cin Drallig or Obi-Wan Kenobi? From Mace Windu or, stars help you, Yoda?"
That quote strongly implys, that Grievous did not meet anyone of Council's caliber on Hypori. It's either retconing Hypori battle or confirms that Ki-Adi and Shaak Ti were that tired, that they could not be consider as Council's caliber warriors.
*In some versions of LoE Dooku lists Shaak Ti instead of Cin Drallig.
2. He choosed to use CW's version of Palpatine's kidnaping, when Grievous stomped Shaak Ti, while they haven't met in LoE.
3. He choosed to use LoE, when it was stated that Count Dooku was sometimes hard-pressed by Grievous, but forgot his favourite CW show, where Grievous was stomped by Dooku.
4. He used LoE version for Grievous duel with Mace, but again forgot his CW show, where Mace stomped Grievous with Force crush.
Awful, pathetic double standard.

And, most of those walls of text from ROTS novel are irrelevant, since most of them are just hyperbolic. You have to determine Grievous' speed by compare his speed with his enemies speed. And in that way, Grievous is not faster then most of top Jedi Masters. Or, assuming that he is, he's far inferior technically, that they can still comptete and even gaining an advantage.

Indeed, in Lgends Grievous stomped Adi Gallia. But it was one of those showings, where he did that exactly in that way that Dooku demanded - by having intimidation, fear and surprise on his side. He actually surprised Gallia with his four arms and due to that was able to kill her.

He also defeated Ventress and Durge, for the same reason - they had no idea, what they were dealing. Fear, intimidation and surprise again. But it should be noted, that at the end, Ventress managed to temporary gain the upper hand:
https://i.imgur.com/vZbNBFm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LJvCNsO.jpg

Anyway, I don't want to lowball Grievous at all. In fact, there was a kind of retcon of many sources during a years. Either Count Dooku or Mace Windu aren't as strong as they were before. Dooku got many embarrassing looses, and Mace... it is strongly suggested, that he's also inferior to his former self. He couldn't stomp Talzin in lighstaber combat the way Sidious did when she was in Dooku's body - and was confirmed to be inferior to him. He also couldn't find an advantage over Maul in their brief fight (he had also show an inferior perception to that of Maul's, since he was unable to dodge that explosion from rocket and lost conscious for a little while (and all of that was with Ayla's support on his side). Mace should be really, really happy that Filoni did not use him more often.

As a big fan of Luceno and LoE, I honestly agree the fact, that Grievous was sometimes able to give Dooku a trouble or stalemate Mace at some point. Even those last episodes of TCW (those unfinished) shows us, that Grievous was able to beat Obi-Wan. And as I remember, those episodes are canon, am I wrong?
Grievous also lands a nice kicks on Obi-Wan and Maul in last season of TCW and in SoD. He indeed is a deadly enemy. But overall, most of his showngs clearly puts him below Obi-Wan or Maul. He might defeat them, but surely not for majority. nice counter

^

And

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Nice job.




I agree.

Originally posted by CuckedCurry
Freedon please

"Sorry, little one."

"TCW shows us..." Let me stop you right there chief.