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Aquaman

You shouldve excluded him from the list.

Cyborg

Depends on the versions, but generally Aquaman or Wonder Woman is the most redundant.

Aquaman's physical stats are exceeded by Superman and WW, and his telepathy isn't as good as J'onn's even if he doesn't turn in to a mewling child every time someone attacks him mentally. If they were fighting something with a massive army, or someone magical, and Aquaman had one of his more versatile tridents, then you could make an argument for him.

Diana, unless they're fighting gods or something, doesn't bring anything to the team bar diversity, though I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Her fighting skill is exceeded by Batman, and her magic weapons are generally equalled by Arthur's tridents.

Then there's Batman, as I'm sure someone else will say.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Depends on the versions, but generally Aquaman or Wonder Woman is the most redundant.

Aquaman's physical stats are exceeded by Superman and WW, and his telepathy isn't as good as J'onn's even if he doesn't turn in to a mewling child every time someone attacks him mentally. If they were fighting something with a massive army, or someone magical, and Aquaman had one of his more versatile tridents, then you could make an argument for him.

Diana, unless they're fighting gods or something, doesn't bring anything to the team bar diversity, though I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Her fighting skill is exceeded by Batman, and her magic weapons are generally equalled by Arthur's tridents.

Then there's Batman, as I'm sure someone else will say.

True but then there are times Arthur's TP has succeeded where Jonn's has failed. Not because its bertter per say but because it works differently. The Dimensional entity that Jonn couldnt even read for example but Arthur could TP dominate. MMH struggles telepathically vs most white martians but Arthur can just shit them down.

Again not saying I dissagree, I'm an AQ fan and I agree he's probably the most redundant.

Aquaman by far. Doesn't really bring muhc


Green Lantern is also kinda useless but he is strong.
Cyborg has the tech, which only Batman can really match
WonderWoman doesn't bring anything but a lasso
MM has his TP that no one can really replicate
Superman is the shield/hammer. No one can do it as good
Batman is the brains and plot devise
Flash is godly in speed and retcon. And he the strong member

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Aquaman by far. Doesn't really bring muhc


Green Lantern is also kinda useless but he is strong.
Cyborg has the tech, which only Batman can really match
WonderWoman doesn't bring anything but a lasso
MM has his TP that no one can really replicate
Superman is the shield/hammer. No one can do it as good
Batman is the brains and plot devise
Flash is godly in speed and retcon. And he the strong member Green Lantern has on-demand crowd control which none of the other Leaguers can match IMHO.

http://66.media.tumblr.com/0295cf5be44480880ee3d72374e3250d/tumblr_mlpoqgWFwc1s4hiu6o8_400.jpg

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Aquaman by far. Doesn't really bring muhc


Green Lantern is also kinda useless but he is strong.


REALLY
GL is like the most versatile member and as such the least redundant. He has a ring that can do anything he can think of. If there's anything the JLA needs to do that none of their powersets cover he's wearing the gap fill/answer/solve.

That's far from useless.

Originally posted by beatboks
REALLY
GL is like the most versatile member and as such the least redundant. He has a ring that can do anything he can think of. If there's anything the JLA needs to do that none of their powersets cover he's wearing the gap fill/answer/solve.

That's far from useless.

This as for the thread AM they should give him hydrokinesis

Originally posted by Sin I AM
This as for the thread AM they should give him hydrokinesis

The water hand era sorta did for a while. Plus magic immunity, a link the the collective unconscious of man, dimensional travel etc.

Not that he wielded it much but so did posiedens trident pre 52. Yet after gifted it (IIRC for saving the sea god from Hades) he put it under armed guard in Atlantis and almost never carried or used it.

Lets be honest here. The answer is Batman.

There, I said it.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lets be honest here. The answer is Batman.

There, I said it. Go back to the Movie vs

Flash.

Hear me out.

Superman is needed as the figurehead. Plus, his stats - stronger than everyone here, nearly as fast, etc etc.

Batman is needed for his resources (that JL satellite can't be paid on Clark's salary, and mythical Greek treasures can't be used as legal tender with the plumber). He is also there to 'think like a bad guy's.

Hal is....you need him for the cosmic adventures.

Aquaman? Water covers 70% of the world. He has a giant ass army. Access to magic. Some TP.

MM coordinates everyone, plus you need a Worf.

WW is the magical brick.

Cyborg is the tech brick.

Firstly, you need a running surface for Flash. So he's out of any space adventures. Superman is nearly as fast, to the point he's faster than others. Batman is a better forensics guy. Cyborg is a better supercomputer

^^^that is some ridiculously awesome dumbass reasoning, i love it thanks Ds.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lets be honest here. The answer is Batman.

There, I said it.
Honestly, its a higher number than i expected.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lets be honest here. The answer is Batman.

There, I said it.

Beat me to it.

PeT1t0lQn5Q

Batman belongs to the Outsiders.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash.

Hear me out.

Superman is needed as the figurehead. Plus, his stats - stronger than everyone here, nearly as fast, etc etc.

Batman is needed for his resources (that JL satellite can't be paid on Clark's salary, and mythical Greek treasures can't be used as legal tender with the plumber). He is also there to 'think like a bad guy's.

Hal is....you need him for the cosmic adventures.

Aquaman? Water covers 70% of the world. He has a giant ass army. Access to magic. Some TP.

MM coordinates everyone, plus you need a Worf.

WW is the magical brick.

Cyborg is the tech brick.

Firstly, you need a running surface for Flash. So he's out of any space adventures. Superman is nearly as fast, to the point he's faster than others. Batman is a better forensics guy. Cyborg is a better supercomputer

Flash is the heart, you shit.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Flash is the heart, you shit.

Pfft. Heart has no place in it. Besides, isn't WW meant to be all about love? To the extent she got chosen for the Star Sapphires? Superman is the farmboy who's all about family values, etc.

They need someone with some knowledge of the 'real world', to me. I.e. if Luthor stages a corporate takeover, or some insidious business/political shenanigans. That's where Bats comes in. He's their link as well to the government, through Amanda Waller.

For all their 'humanness', Bats is the one guy who gives them a human face, more so than Barry, Hal or Cyborg. He's the reader, in essence.

SO awesome!

Originally posted by beatboks
True but then there are times Arthur's TP has succeeded where Jonn's has failed. Not because its bertter per say but because it works differently. The Dimensional entity that Jonn couldnt even read for example but Arthur could TP dominate. MMH struggles telepathically vs most white martians but Arthur can just shit them down.

Again not saying I dissagree, I'm an AQ fan and I agree he's probably the most redundant.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Hell, if Johns had given Arthur's TP half as much attention as he did his physical stats (or even just included PAD's version of the character's feats), you could make a very strong argument for him being a lot more useful than he currently is.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Flash is the heart, you shit.

Shut it, Johns.

Originally posted by beatboks
The water hand era sorta did for a while. Plus magic immunity, a link the the collective unconscious of man, dimensional travel etc.

Not that he wielded it much but so did posiedens trident pre 52. Yet after gifted it (IIRC for saving the sea god from Hades) he put it under armed guard in Atlantis and almost never carried or used it.

Yea..i know. They seemed to have ditched his extra powers in favor of giving Mera a boost...which is fine. I just don't think his current incarnation is much help to Atlantis let alone the JLA. He hasn't received the Odinson treatment but he did get neutered a bit in the current ongoing.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash.

Hear me out.

Superman is needed as the figurehead. Plus, his stats - stronger than everyone here, nearly as fast, etc etc.

Batman is needed for his resources (that JL satellite can't be paid on Clark's salary, and mythical Greek treasures can't be used as legal tender with the plumber). He is also there to 'think like a bad guy's.

Hal is....you need him for the cosmic adventures.

Aquaman? Water covers 70% of the world. He has a giant ass army. Access to magic. Some TP.

MM coordinates everyone, plus you need a Worf.

WW is the magical brick.

Cyborg is the tech brick.

Firstly, you need a running surface for Flash. So he's out of any space adventures. Superman is nearly as fast, to the point he's faster than others. Batman is a better forensics guy. Cyborg is a better supercomputer

Nice post

^^^Nice and funny, yeah!
I especially liked how he expects ppl to believe Supes, WW, and Aquaman couldnt finance the league if called upon.

Superman could, but he wants/needs to work as an anonymous reporter. What do you expect, he just crushes coal into diamonds and sells? How many can he do, before the market is saturated in diamonds and it crashes? The Cullinan diamond, one of the most expensive, was $400 million - that won't even pay for a Hall of Justice.

What is your next big idea, he sells Kryptonian tech?

The Amazons are next. WW sure seems the type to sell her heritage off, right? Pawning the family jewels? Lol. Besides, they're a warrior society. What treasures have they got?

Which leaves Aquaman. Assuming he's allowed by his kingdom to sell their wares to air breathers and land dwellers (Atlantis doesn't even have any trade links, precisely because they're mostly at war, or Arthur has been deposed etc), there's the whole 'the JL are financed by a guy who two issues ago was branded a terrorist organization by the US'.

Great thinking

Originally posted by -Pr-
Shut it, Johns.

You petty fu ck.

I hope Barry speeds along and snaps your neck uhuh

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lets be honest here. The answer is Batman.

There, I said it.

No.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Go back to the Movie vs

Yes because financing the league requires him to report it on his taxes, thus exposing his carefully kept secret ID.

What is your next big idea, WW needs to pretend to be Diana Prince as she takes dictation for Lyle Wagoner?

Great thinking

Originally posted by -Pr-
I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Hell, if Johns had given Arthur's TP half as much attention as he did his physical stats (or even just included PAD's version of the character's feats), you could make a very strong argument for him being a lot more useful than he currently is.
To differentiate between Aquaman and J'onn, they should make Arthur's TP as biological with a good emphasis on that. As in, he affects the physical brain, he doesn't use conventional 'TP' energy. Like brain TK, sort to speak. Kind of the way he did against the White Martian.

^^^Not enough emphasis is put on that crucial difference by writers.

This would make perfect sense. I mean lets face it most of the use of Arthur's TP is on sea creatures that dont have higher brain function. He commands fish that dont think. I always thought of it as his tp simply working on the oldest parts of the brain that revolve around autonomic response or instinct. This idea makes as much or more sense though.

^^^Ouch.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Flash.

Hear me out.

Superman is needed as the figurehead. Plus, his stats - stronger than everyone here, nearly as fast, etc etc.

Batman is needed for his resources (that JL satellite can't be paid on Clark's salary, and mythical Greek treasures can't be used as legal tender with the plumber). He is also there to 'think like a bad guy's.

Hal is....you need him for the cosmic adventures.

Aquaman? Water covers 70% of the world. He has a giant ass army. Access to magic. Some TP.

MM coordinates everyone, plus you need a Worf.

WW is the magical brick.

Cyborg is the tech brick.

Firstly, you need a running surface for Flash. So he's out of any space adventures. Superman is nearly as fast, to the point he's faster than others. Batman is a better forensics guy. Cyborg is a better supercomputer
Someone has hacked this account.

^^^nah, he’s just practicing his stand up.


At its most basic, yeah.
I like to think streets make great leaders, as they can direct traffic, and are usually better tacticians than the powerhouses.
Superman on the JLA w.out Bats to tell him to use his powers creatively would be useless.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Sounds like youre downplaying his tactical skills

What tactical skills can a man have that can be compares to God? Clark as been showned to be far more tactical, smarter than Bruce in all categories. Bruce is only relevant because of pis/Cis. No more.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Just because Riv was joking about Superman being useless and not being able to use his powers creatively without Batman doesn't mean you should post dumb things like this friendo.

Bruce is not only the better tactician than Superman, he's also just smarter.
Fixed.

Fair enough my man, but the point stands that SquallX is unironically devaluing Batman's intelligence and tactical ability compared to the rest of the League.

Superman is smarter than Batman in terms of pure intelligence and his understanding of things like advanced scientific concepts. You can put that down to his Kryptonian brain and his perfect recall etc, but it's still there.

He's not the strategist or tactician Bruce is, though. Nobody is. Even people like Diana and Arthur, who have actually waged war, don't think the way Bruce does. They, for lack of a deeper explanation, don't have the level of cynicism Bruce has that allows him to plan for contingencies only he would even think of in the first place.

And yes, there is the whole "we need a human on the team to humanise them, and to be that guy the enemy doesn't take seriously", but batman still offers far more than say, hawkeye and widow do in the avengers.

That said, he needs the League to ground him as much as they need him. He'd be a lot worse off without someone like Superman keeping him relatively in check.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman is smarter than Batman in terms of pure intelligence and his understanding of things like advanced scientific concepts. You can put that down to his Kryptonian brain and his perfect recall etc, but it's still there.

He's not the strategist or tactician Bruce is, though. Nobody is. Even people like Diana and Arthur, who have actually waged war, don't think the way Bruce does. They, for lack of a deeper explanation, don't have the level of cynicism Bruce has that allows him to plan for contingencies only he would even think of in the first place.

And yes, there is the whole "we need a human on the team to humanise them, and to be that guy the enemy doesn't take seriously", but batman still offers far more than say, hawkeye and widow do in the avengers.

That said, he needs the League to ground him as much as they need him. He'd be a lot worse off without someone like Superman keeping him relatively in check.

I agree with most of this. The only DC character who considers more contingencies than Bruce is Vril Dox Jnr. That is because hes equally as cynical as Bruce but has even less lines he wont cross. Mind you NOONE is "humanising" him.

^^^And here i thought you were being tongue in cheek.
Turns out it was foot in mouth.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You're not talking about just "removing PIS". You're talking about removing a key part of how fiction itself works.

And Barry would still need to put the clues together. It doesn't matter how fast he is, he still needs to be capable of it, and he's not as good a detective as Bruce.

I know pis plays a big part in fiction as a whole, but for characters like Batman who has no powers, it is use so excessively, that characters Bruce should be useless against are rendered useless.

Barry is a forensic scientist, he is just as good as Bruce. Add in the speed force, Bruce cannot outwit him when it comes to searching for clues and solving a crime.

I approve Squall's post on Batman if it wasn't already obvious.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Nobody's saying Batman doesn't get away with a lot due to PIS, but you're talking about the other end of the spectrum in your post. You need to come back towards the middle.

Batman Vs Superman in a fight? Who wins?

Bruce ends up winning because of pis/cis, and the human triumphant over God aspect.

Originally posted by Bentley
It turns out Flash is the most useless member of the JLA:
TLDNR

You're throwing their characters out of the window, though.

And removing a large part of Batman's powerset, his mind.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're throwing their characters out of the window, though.

And removing a large part of Batman's powerset, his mind.
Pretty sure he doesnt care.

Batman,for me, is the reader. 'if I had access to this network of superheroes, what would I do?'

CIS, in effect, is turned off for him by default. Interact with Superman on the daily? I would carry a Kryptonite ring with me in a lead lined pocket ohhhhh Batman does that.

He thinks like a villain. Take loved ones hostage? I'd get Catwoman to take Lois hostage ohhhhh Batman does that.

CIS is on for his team mates - because it isn't stupidity, per se, but rather, they don't think like that. Hal was part of the armed forces - imagine going into battle with plans to take your wingman down. He wouldn't think like that, Batman does. Barry is part of the police force etc etc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Batman,for me, is the reader. 'if I had access to this network of superheroes, what would I do?'

CIS, in effect, is turned off for him by default. Interact with Superman on the daily? I would carry a Kryptonite ring with me in a lead lined pocket ohhhhh Batman does that.

He thinks like a villain. Take loved ones hostage? I'd get Catwoman to take Lois hostage ohhhhh Batman does that.

CIS is on for his team mates - because it isn't stupidity, per se, but rather, they don't think like that. Hal was part of the armed forces - imagine going into battle with plans to take your wingman down. He wouldn't think like that, Batman does. Barry is part of the police force etc etc.
TBH, i was hoping for (but not at all expecting) more posts like yours, and some earlier ones re: Aquaman, that would draw the conclusion that none of the JLA are actually useless, that they all serve a purpose in making the Big 7 line up the most iconic and imitated in comics.

Would you care to BZ me? Batman and Superman have known each other for....let's say 5 years?

So Batman has 5 years' prep.

You can rep Superman, but you are only allowed to stay within character. So bell rings, you have your superspeed etc, but in character, you don't snatch Batman - your friend-'s head off. Superman goes into battle and takes a punch or two. Then unleashes.

However, if things are not going your way (so for example, I'm-somehow-beating you to death), you're not going to be an idiot and stand there taking it. No 'Gee whiz Bruce! You're smashing my face in!!!'

No. You get to use whatever you want, within the confines of Superman being in character (i.e. what he has actually done).

Me? I get to do whatever Batman has done. So no, I'm not suddenly shouting Shazam and gaining powers, but I get to use whatever has been shown to be in my possession/tactics etc.

That should remove pis and cis, right? You should be able to laugh my feeble attacks off. Am sure you have a wealth of Superman scans to use in your favour.

Your third point was either ignorance,or you read my post wrong.

Luthor and Metallo. Two of his longstanding enemies. TOTALLY comparable to Bruce, one of the guys he consistently calls his friend

Note your post? 'Any other bad guys'. Superman fights bad guys (or at least, bad guys he's met before) like that.

Does he fight friends like that?

Wait! You say. Why would Superman fight his friends??

That's the point. Batman thinks like a villain. And plans to fight his friends. So yeah, he has first strike advantage here.

Oh SHIT, the BZ gauntlet was thrown.

Lol. BZs definitely remove PIS, and hopefully remove CIS, lol. That's why I threw it down in this case.

If Squall truly believes Superman is hampered by writers, and Batman's only chance is due to writers writing him favourably (which is of course, always possible) then attempting to write a confrontation without Batman bias, as it were, should show how easy it is.

'Match starts, Superman laughs at the Kryptonite batarang, then HVs Bruce's face off. The end.'. That kinda thing.

Originally posted by SquallX
I know pis plays a big part in fiction as a whole, but for characters like Batman who has no powers, it is use so excessively, that characters Bruce should be useless against are rendered useless.

Barry is a forensic scientist, he is just as good as Bruce. Add in the speed force, Bruce cannot outwit him when it comes to searching for clues and solving a crime.

See, now you're saying what should be, rather than what is. Batman has enough consistent showings to prove his worth at this point.

That's a really weak argument. I can fix a computer, but even if you slap the speed force on me, I'm not going to be building Apollo rockets any time soon. Barry is smart, sure, but he's not on Bruce's level when it comes to pure detective work. Why? Because it's about more than evidence.

Originally posted by SquallX
Batman Vs Superman in a fight? Who wins?

Bruce ends up winning because of pis/cis, and the human triumphant over God aspect.

No, Superman wins.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He thinks like a villain.

Great point. He really does.

He's also a psychopath.

^^^good point. He really is.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. BZs definitely remove PIS, and hopefully remove CIS, lol. That's why I threw it down in this case.

If Squall truly believes Superman is hampered by writers, and Batman's only chance is due to writers writing him favourably (which is of course, always possible) then attempting to write a confrontation without Batman bias, as it were, should show how easy it is.

'Match starts, Superman laughs at the Kryptonite batarang, then HVs Bruce's face off. The end.'. That kinda thing.
Seems right.

You’re obviously willing to stand by the strength of YOUR argument.

Originally posted by SquallX
Batman Vs Superman in a fight? Who wins?

Bruce ends up winning because of pis/cis, and the human triumphant over God aspect. Superman typically does, unless that's changed in recent years. Last I checked Bats had not one win against Superman in canon, but that was years ago.

Who cares though? We aren't talking about which hero beats the others in a fight. We are talking about their relative contributions to the team. And Batman does provide something the others do not.

^^^Squallix was in a roll, though. Off topic, but rolling.