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The Eternal and the mutant.

Sersi 10/10.

And thats a surprising/quick wrap; thank you Zop.

I mean it's all MHO but most everything Selene can do, Sersi can do but better. Sersi's also gone up against more impressive opponents.

Originally posted by zopzop
I mean it's all MHO but most everything Selene can do, Sersi can do but better. Sersi's also gone up against more impressive opponents.

I think Selene is better at BDSM, man.

And plenty of other things, but bdsm in particular.

not sure sersi would have an answer for life drain tbh. i don't see her taking selene out with tp, and selene's powers also counter sersi's pretty well. i might take selene for a small majority here.

If your wife was on vacation, who would you bang, leo?

Sersi or Selene?

You can only pick one.

Originally posted by leonidas
not sure sersi would have an answer for life drain tbh. i don't see her taking selene out with tp, and selene's powers also counter sersi's pretty well. i might take selene for a small majority here.
Sersi has true TK (not like Selene's that only works on certain inanimate objects). Sersi's shields are incredible (during the Avengers/Alpha Flight/Red Guard crossover event, she shield thousands of people individually and kept them safe through an interdimensional void while telepathically communicating with Shaman who was multiple dimensions away). Her strength is ridiculous (she's taken out immortal Hercules and Giant Man). She stalemated Exodus in TP (he would wreck Selene also).

Would Selene's life drain work on an immortal? Even if there was a chance of it working, Sersi can just shield herself then physically maul Selene who is nowhere near her in terms of physical stats.

Sersi's a tough one for Selene - her own real trump here is her life draining and mystical abilities. Sersi has no resistance to magic, though she does have very high control over her own molecules.

I'd say Sersi takes a slight majority after a very tough fight each time.

Originally posted by zopzop
Sersi has true TK (not like Selene's that only works on certain inanimate objects). Sersi's shields are incredible (during the Avengers/Alpha Flight/Red Guard crossover event, she shield thousands of people individually and kept them safe through an interdimensional void while telepathically communicating with Shaman who was multiple dimensions away). Her strength is ridiculous (she's taken out immortal Hercules and Giant Man). She stalemated Exodus in TP (he would wreck Selene also).

Would Selene's life drain work on an immortal? Even if there was a chance of it working, Sersi can just shield herself then physically maul Selene who is nowhere near her in terms of physical stats.

selene's tk will work on pretty all inanimate objects and her magic can affect organics. selene also has shields that are strong and sersi would need to drop them to attack anyway. sersi doesn't use her powers to mindrape people though she is a strong psi. her strength varies and you're citing her best showing when all she did was fly herc up, hit him and throw him down from the air. selene has a shadow form and is partially intangible so physical strength won't cut it here. she was also mostly insane when she went against the avengers and does not resort to physical brawls to win fights. i don't see her being able to transform selene into anything. too much molecular control for selene, plus deux ex machina style magic. selene also killed all the externals and drained their power. they are also immortal--or as immortal as the eternals anyway--so there is no reason at all she couldn't drain sersi.

i think this is very close, and the most "uncounterable" ability belongs to selene.

and selene is the hotter of the 2 i think too.

Originally posted by zopzop

Would Selene's life drain work on an immortal?

Even if there was a chance of it working, Sersi can just shield herself then physically maul Selene who is nowhere near her in terms of physical stats.

Yes, it does, as Leo said. Selene drained the Externals, baffling everyone involved, since they are immortal.
https://postimg.cc/sB77Y0qT
https://postimg.cc/XGxZxM8k
https://postimg.cc/TLTLr2rP

Granted, it's been recently retconned into them being in stasis, recovering from Selene's assault. Still, it works, even if they can recover years later.

As for a physical fight, Selene has mist form. Additionally, we've seen her completely ignore phsyical damage before. It doesn't seem to affect her the same way it does regular folks.
Originally posted by zopzop
She stalemated Exodus in TP (he would wreck Selene also).
Emma stalemated Exodus too. In fact, Emma sat on a couch in New York and blocked Sinister, Exodus, and Lady Mastermind(Regan) from psychically attacking her teammates in Antarctica. She monitored and blocked the ONE sentinel pervs from spying on the Xteen dorms at the same time.

Selene still casually mindwipe Emma, and put her to sleep.
https://m.imgur.com/a/Fq66ovI

Sure, Emma was younger, but it's the closest comparison we have.

This isn't cut and dry at all. I'm leaning towards Selene at the moment tbh.

Originally posted by leonidas
her strength varies and you're citing her best showing when all she did was fly herc up, hit him and throw him down from the air.
That's not all that happened. She picked him up, punched him out (you even see him crying out in pain), then flung him to the ground. He wasn't see again till the next issue. She also KOed Giant Man and took out Crystal.
https://i.postimg.cc/0bb0tPJz/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/qzSXSS8j/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/LJPBpDDR/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/FfQbsSCS/image.jpg

This isn't the first time she's owned him. She's even taken the wind out of his sails (figuratively speaking) with TK :
http://i.imgur.com/P34GYwc.jpg


In terms of raw power : Sersi
In terms of physical stats : Sersi
In terms of scale of power : Sersi
In terms of TK : Sersi
In terms of experience : Seris (Selene is thousands of years old, Sersi is HUNDREDS of thousands of years old)

Show me anything Selene has done that can compare to the following feat :
Sersi individually shields THOUSANDS of people in a line stretching for a "few KILOMETERS". The shield has to : protect them from the vacuum in the Void, provide breathable air, and regulate the temperature so they don't freeze to death. While she's doing this, she's maintaining telepathic contact with Shaman who is multiple dimensions away in mainstream reality.
Here's Jeffries aka Box in the last panel on page explaining the plan with the tether :
https://i.postimg.cc/BLR7pbQB/image.jpg
Here's Sersi executing the plan :
https://i.postimg.cc/c6YFZsLP/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/fJNBR63y/image.jpg

And more from the same era/series.

Here's Sersi shielding hundreds of people from a dimension full of volcanoes. The heat is so bad, even the Vision's synthetic skin starts to burn after a few seconds of contact with it. Not only is she shielding them AND regulating the temperature, she's allowing Fantasma to tap into her TP to contact Shaman, AND she's helping Vision physically pull the Box armor into her force field :
https://i.postimg.cc/V5p5989s/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/VdtvDV4q/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/rDLmbNYv/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/yJ1N6YKj/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/hJ2tXWPB/image.jpg

Again, a feat that sh|ts all over anything Selene has done.........Ever.

you're zopping again....

leo says:

zop says:



thanks for agreeing. the only thing you did wrong was say she punched him out which is dumb. he cried out so he was punched out?? lol because people in comics never cry out...? please, we have no idea if he was ko'd by her punch but it seems idiotic to think so since she seemed to try and finish him by throwing him to the ground... and he did disappear, but he wasn't the focus in that issue, plus it was a good showing for her because she's powerful and would beat herc in a battle because of her powers. so...good points...?

all of which is meaningless of course because selene isn't a cl100 brick who can't fly.

the feats you posted are good ones but still not sure how they are supposed to prove she wins. could selene replicate them? no. do i need to prove she can to suggest she can win this fight? no. she has enough psi power that she won't get mindraped--not sersi's style anyway. her own shields would stop tk attacks, her own molecular control keeps her from being transmuted, her shifting physical form prevents physical domination. sersi may or may not be able to counter selene's magic, but she sure as sh!t can't counter a life drain.

i'm not going to bother posting some of sersi's...lesser showings. she has PLENTY though. again, selene can counter pretty much everything sersi can throw at her, but sersi has no counter for being drained. /shrug

Originally posted by StyleTime

Emma stalemated Exodus too. In fact, Emma sat on a couch in New York and blocked Sinister, Exodus, and Lady Mastermind(Regan) from psychically attacking her teammates in Antarctica.
Oh really? Look at the version of Exodus Sersi fought and stalemated :
https://i.postimg.cc/qzB6QTg9/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/nXCjbG42/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/LqPJh40Z/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/7Gyfzvpt/image.jpg
See that? He has Jean, Wanda, Crystal, and Pietro held helpless against their will while holding off a team consisting of Cyclops, Storm, Bishop, Gambit, etc.. He then takes them down. Then Xavier had to step in and Black Knight finished it off. This version of Exodus would devour Emma's soul.

Show me Selene going up against a being of that level of power.

Originally posted by leonidas
you're zopping again....

leo says:

zop says:



thanks for agreeing. the only thing you did wrong was say she punched him out which is dumb. he cried out so he was punched out??
Yes you left out and extremely important detail : the fact that she PUNCHED him before flinging him to the ground. He's not seen again till the next issue. There were a few more pages after that scene and he's nowhere to be found. He was KOed.


Which is meaningless because everyone has low showings. Nice try though.

dude, i left nothing out:



i'm not saying he wasn't or was ko'd from the fall. were he ko'd by the punch that would be hilariously stupid given some of the shots he's tanked, from mjolnir to wwh. and i know he's certainly easily walked away from a LOT more than that fall as well, but fact is we never saw anything to prove it one way or the other.

and you seem to really want to make this about herc for some reason.

low showings can be used to balance cherry-picking the highest outliers but i won't bother. you somehow see this as a stomp. i say it's very close and i'll take selene for a slight majority here.

Originally posted by leonidas
dude, i left nothing out:

i'm not saying he wasn't or was ko'd from the fall. were he ko'd by the punch that would be hilariously stupid given some of the shots he's tanked, from mjolnir to wwh. and i know he's certainly easily walked away from a LOT more than that fall as well, but fact is we never saw anything to prove it one way or the other.

and you seem to really want to make this about herc for some reason.

Of course this is all about Herc. The same writer had him going toe to toe with Professor Hulk and tanking a sucker attack from Mjolnir by an Ares possessed Masterson Thor. And this wasn't a one time incident. She already floored him with one attack (again with him crying out in pain) with a TK enhanced backhand (which i posted earlier).

Her TK is so powerful she lifted millions of tons of water hundreds of feet in the air causing a mini tsunami that wiped out the Brooklyn Bridge :
https://i.postimg.cc/t1CLvNYz/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/wtfnCRNY/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/Kk1Cxc7k/image.jpg
Again, this dwarfs ANYTHING Selene has done TK (or otherwise).

again, so? you think she is gonna what, tk crush selene through her force fields?? i don't see that happening in any way shape or form. what's to stop selene from casting an illusion and simply draining her? her spells have fooled kulan gath. she has also used her magic to block tp, so that wouldn't be an option here. you still haven't provided any counter to life drain. her shields would protect her, or her shadow form would protect her long enough to drain sersi here and you've shown nothing to indicate otherwise.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
If your wife was on vacation, who would you bang, leo?

Sersi or Selene?

You can only pick one. Let's stick with reality please:

Zopzop or Carver9?

Zopzop is white and lanky, but Carver is sharp as a tack and dressed to the nines.

Originally posted by leonidas
again, so? you think she is gonna what, tk crush selene through her force fields?? i don't see that happening in any way shape or form.
What? I gave you multiple examples of Sersi's FAR superior TK. Show me counter examples of Selene doing anything anywhere near that impressive with her TK. Sersi's TK is so powerful, her matter manipulation skills overcame evil Vision's control of his molecules and transmuted him against his will :
https://i.postimg.cc/3kQknb9M/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/hX8fwb3X/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/f3wJht6B/image.jpg
Show me examples of Selene doing that vs someone that has control over his molecules.


Kulan Gath was up against a whole host of heroes and villains. It's not like she fought him straight up one vs one. Sersi is also a competent telepath. No one is minephucking anyone here. In fact, are there ANY examples of Selene fighting someone in a magical dual sans prep? I'll wait for scans.


I have. Sersi's CLEARLY superior TK. Selene is not getting through the those shields. And if anything, Sersi would bubble up Selene if she wanted to and Selene would be phucked.

geezus....strawman much? why would i need to show you selene overcoming someone's molecular control....? i have never claimed selene could transmute her. and why would i need to show a magical duel? lol sersi has no magic. she doesn't need to be able to do almost anything to win this, tbh. her illusions fooled gath through much of that arc and it had nothing to do with the fact that other were fighting him. i mean wtf? the eye of agamotto even listed her as one of the beings who could be the next sorcerer supreme. she has used her magic to transmute people and changed eliphas into an ever-living vampire. all she needs to do here though is fool sersi briefly then drain her. that would serve to both weaken sersi and empower selene. there's no mindphuckery involved at all--simple illusions will do.

and a bubble? lol selene would just use magic to teleport out of it:

https://imgur.com/a/xo2aiwk

i like the spell she cast there too--made him believe he was on fire. lol

she doesn't even need to touch sersi to drain her. she can cast a simple spell which here depowers amara and allows selene to drain her without effort:

https://imgur.com/a/A5f9r6I

illusions, magic, plus all her other abilities give her enough versatility to survive against sersi's greater overall power and use the abilities sersi can't counter to beat her. no defense against life drain, no matter how many strawmen you thrown up to bury the fact.

Originally posted by zopzop
Of course this is all about Herc. The same writer had him going toe to toe with Professor Hulk and tanking a sucker attack from Mjolnir by an Ares possessed Masterson Thor. And this wasn't a one time incident. She already floored him with one attack (again with him crying out in pain) with a TK enhanced backhand (which i posted earlier).

Her TK is so powerful she lifted millions of tons of water hundreds of feet in the air causing a mini tsunami that wiped out the Brooklyn Bridge :
https://i.postimg.cc/t1CLvNYz/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/wtfnCRNY/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/Kk1Cxc7k/image.jpg
Again, this dwarfs ANYTHING Selene has done TK (or otherwise).
Bro, Rachel has some of best TK feats in the herald tier. She opened a blackhole, a far greater feat, yet couldn't do shit to Selene with her TK. Selene straight up overpowered her back in the day, in fact. While Rachel has grown and had a good showing against her eventually, Selene is totally in this realm of power.

Let's not confuse Sersi's greater exposure for greater power. She headlined in an Avengers squad as a hero. Of course she has some nice showings to her name. Selene, in direct comparisons with other characters, fares just fine.

And Sersi still can't counter life drain...

Originally posted by leonidas
geezus....strawman much? why would i need to show you selene overcoming someone's molecular control....? i have never claimed selene could transmute her. and why would i need to show a magical duel? lol sersi has no magic. she doesn't need to be able to do almost anything to win this, tbh. her illusions fooled gath through much of that arc and it had nothing to do with the fact that other were fighting him. i mean wtf? the eye of agamotto even listed her as one of the beings who could be the next sorcerer supreme. she has used her magic to transmute people and changed eliphas into an ever-living vampire. all she needs to do here though is fool sersi briefly then drain her. that would serve to both weaken sersi and empower selene. there's no mindphuckery involved at all--simple illusions will do.

and a bubble? lol selene would just use magic to teleport out of it:

https://imgur.com/a/xo2aiwk

i like the spell she cast there too--made him believe he was on fire. lol


You realize that's not proof of teleportation right? Selene has the ability to hypnotize people and momentarily move at superspeed to make it appear like she's teleporting :
https://i.postimg.cc/BPTQPJFm/image.jpg



Can you post the page before this? What issue is this from. I need to see the whole thing in context.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Bro, Rachel has some of best TK feats in the herald tier. She opened a blackhole, a far greater feat, yet couldn't do shit to Selene with her TK. Selene straight up overpowered her back in the day, in fact. While Rachel has grown and had a good showing against her eventually, Selene is totally in this realm of power.

Let's not confuse Sersi's greater exposure for greater power. She headlined in an Avengers squad as a hero. Of course she has some nice showings to her name. Selene, in direct comparisons with other characters, fares just fine.

And Sersi still can't counter life drain...
Bro, Rachel was a clown back in the day. Post anything impressive she did before attaining the PF during that era. I'll wait.

What's more hilarious, Rachel just entered mainstream reality recently when Selene beat her. The second time Selene beat her, she took her by surprise.

Originally posted by zopzop
Bro, Rachel was a clown back in the day. Post anything impressive she did before attaining the PF during that era. I'll wait.

What's more hilarious, Rachel just entered mainstream reality recently when Selene beat her. The second time Selene beat her, she took her by surprise.
Her power was still there though, indicating Selene can deal with it.
Originally posted by zopzop
Oh really? Look at the version of Exodus Sersi fought and stalemated :
https://i.postimg.cc/qzB6QTg9/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/nXCjbG42/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/LqPJh40Z/image.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/7Gyfzvpt/image.jpg
See that? He has Jean, Wanda, Crystal, and Pietro held helpless against their will while holding off a team consisting of Cyclops, Storm, Bishop, Gambit, etc.. He then takes them down. Then Xavier had to step in and Black Knight finished it off. This version of Exodus would devour Emma's soul.

Show me Selene going up against a being of that level of power.
Neat, yet Emma stalemated him. Magneto straight up beat him.

Magneto and Doctor Doom, together, couldn't even fight Selene without waiting until she was weakened. She was literally transporting them to random spots on the planet, nearly killed Magneto, and casually slapped Doctor Doom around.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Neat, yet Emma stalemated him. Magneto straight up beat him.
Make a thread : Emma vs Exodus or Emma vs Sinister. I bet you anything the forum agrees she loses to either of them. What version of Exodus did she stalemate? The version Sersi stalemated was busting teams of Avengers and X-men.


Scans? Let's see this in context.

Prove it with scans from that era! I'll wait. Rachel couldn't even hold back a wall of wood!

Originally posted by zopzop

You realize that's not proof of teleportation right? Selene has the ability to hypnotize people and momentarily move at superspeed to make it appear like she's teleporting :
https://i.postimg.cc/BPTQPJFm/image.jpg



Can you post the page before this? What issue is this from. I need to see the whole thing in context.

here's the page before:

https://imgur.com/a/VGoIUcO

she'd been fooled by dani but it doesn't detract from the range and power of the spell. all she'd need to do is distract sersi with an illusion and drain her, almost exactly what happened with amara.

and if you think she used super speed to to appear on that ledge, and was simply outright lying in that other scan, well.... you're really trying to reach to absurd lengths to prove your point. you think she hypnotized everyone that was presnt? lol of course, i guess she could hypnotize sersi as well. that is a totally different ability from tp and i doubt sersi has any defense against being hypnotized. just one more option she could use to win this.

Originally posted by leonidas
here's the page before:

https://imgur.com/a/VGoIUcO

she'd been fooled by dani but it doesn't detract from the range and power of the spell.
I knew it. She attacked a distracted teenager. I love context.


Sersi is a telepath and she has extensive experience with illusions :
https://i.postimg.cc/mZyNgxmY/ZBZUQhP.png

And let's see the scope/scale of her telepathy, here she scans the entire planet in a matter of seconds :
https://i.postimg.cc/gJP8G4Rt/Ch4HmDX.jpg
Show me Selene matching this. I'll wait.

jfc, why do i bother....

one more strawman. how many times do you have to be told this isn't a FEAT MATCHING THREAD. goddamn man.... if she used her tp offensively with ANY regularity i'd pick her, but she doesn't and she has VERY few really good tp feats. the SCOPE of are powers are MEANINGLESS here.

and lol at context. the spell did precisely what i showed it did. distracted teenager? lol because that changes the effectiveness of the spell. and your support that she can beat an illusion is her saying she can? sigh.... at least i showed selene ACTUALLY teleporting, and not just saying she did.

and STILL no counter for life drain. you've done an admirable job of convincing me this is weighted more heavily in selene's favor than i initially thought.

Originally posted by zopzop
You realize that's not proof of teleportation right? Selene has the ability to hypnotize people and momentarily move at superspeed to make it appear like she's teleporting :

Selene can also teleport, including forcefully teleporting other people. See below.
Originally posted by zopzop
Make a thread : Emma vs Exodus or Emma vs Sinister. I bet you anything the forum agrees she loses to either of them. What version of Exodus did she stalemate? The version Sersi stalemated was busting teams of Avengers and X-men.

Scans? Let's see this in context.
Yes, I'd expect anyone who read the issue to call her vs Exodus a stalemate, since that's what happened in the actual comic.

The fight occurred over much of that issue, so I'm not posting every scan. But here's the relevant stuff.

When Magneto and Doom arrive, Doom says "she could destroy us in seconds." They even brought reprogrammed Sentinels as bodyguards, or at least that's what Magneto thought.
https://postimg.cc/FfBkCNYj
https://postimg.cc/H8GcHz4n

Selene toyed with them most of the issue, transporting them to various points across the planet. When Magneto engaged, she shadow phased right through his shield and drained him. Then she transported them to Venice to beat on Doom some, granted Doom had some minor success with a light based attack.
https://postimg.cc/62x4xzh3
https://postimg.cc/xqYNsxCp
https://postimg.cc/q6ktzRSH
https://postimg.cc/KKHZL5zN
https://postimg.cc/tn0pvCFn
https://postimg.cc/2bLCxBLf
.
It wasn't until they were in Antartica, where her powers are at their weakest apparently, that Doom felt they had a shot. Selene said she'd still beat them regardless, and with some justification. After transporting them back to Scotland, Magneto points out she was still depleted.
https://postimg.cc/F7TPFk8m

She casually dispatched Doom in spite of her weakened state. Doom says, "You're too fast. Too powerful. I cannot hope to win in simple combat."
https://postimg.cc/k6Nc02K0
https://postimg.cc/SJPWt6HX

Magneto was double crossed and taken out by the sentinels by this point, but the fact that he felt he needed the sentinels despite her weakened state says a lot...

And to pre-empt this response, Selene does start at full power in the match. Her drawing power from ley lines seems like a permanent thing. She literally lives on one, and it seems like she'd have to be transported to Antarctica to actually depower her, due to lack of shadows.
Originally posted by zopzop
Bro, Rachel was a clown back in the day. Post anything impressive she did before attaining the PF during that era. I'll wait.

What's more hilarious, Rachel just entered mainstream reality recently when Selene beat her. The second time Selene beat her, she took her by surprise.
This is Rachel after she got her TK upgraded somehow by losing the Phoenix. Selene still used her shadow form to phase through her TK. Rachel wins in the end, but again, she's a got a bottomless well to tap into.

https://postimg.cc/4KJ5tzMm

So, things we know. Selene can pass through anything that allows light through. As far as I know, Sersi's transparent shields qualify for this. Even if they don't, Selene has phased through TK from one of the strongest telekinetics out there. Additionally, Selene can drain immortals.

Why exactly can't Selene just shadow form over to Sersi, and drain the shit out of her? You still haven't addressed this. I'm not even getting into the fact that Selene can animate fire and rock golems and such to assist her. You keep posting feats of scale for Sersi, yet Selene has overcome opponents with the same or better feats. Selene didn't headline a big book, so individual feats of scale will be hard to come by, but she outperforms people who do have those feats.

nice. that's solid stuff. hadn't seen that battle with doom.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Selene can also teleport, including forcefully teleporting other people. See below.

Yes, I'd expect anyone who read the issue to call her vs Exodus a stalemate, since that's what happened in the actual comic.

The fight occurred over much of that issue, so I'm not posting every scan. But here's the relevant stuff.

When Magneto and Doom arrive, Doom says she "would destroy us in seconds" in a straight fight. They even brought reprogrammed Sentinels bodyguards, or at least that's what Magneto thought.
https://postimg.cc/FfBkCNYj
https://postimg.cc/H8GcHz4n

Selene toyed with them most of the issue, transporting them to various points across the planet. When Magneto engaged, she shadow phased right through his shield and drained him. Then she transported them to Venice to beat on Doom some, granted Doom had some minor success with a light based attack.
https://postimg.cc/62x4xzh3
https://postimg.cc/xqYNsxCp
https://postimg.cc/q6ktzRSH
https://postimg.cc/KKHZL5zN
https://postimg.cc/tn0pvCFn
https://postimg.cc/2bLCxBLf
.
It wasn't until they were in Antartica, where her powers are at their weakest apparently, that Doom felt they had a shot. Selene said she'd still beat them regardless, and with some justification. After transporting them back to Scotland, Magneto points out she was still depleted.
https://postimg.cc/F7TPFk8m

She casually dispatched Doom in spite of her weakened state. Doom says, "You're too fast. Too powerful. I cannot hope to win in simple combat."
https://postimg.cc/k6Nc02K0
https://postimg.cc/SJPWt6HX

Magneto was double crossed and taken out by the sentinels by this point, but the fact that he felt he needed the sentinels despite her weakened state says a lot...

And to pre-empt this response, Selene does start at full power in the match. Her drawing power from ley lines seems like a permanent thing. She literally lives on one, and it seems like she'd have to be transported to Antarctica to actually depower her, due to lack of shadows.
WTF is that art? Give me the comic name and issue #.


Who!? Aside from this Magneto/Doom fight which seems suspect as phuck. I want to look at the issue myself.

Originally posted by leonidas
nice. that's solid stuff. hadn't seen that battle with doom.
I accidently left out some scans/posted wrong link for RachelvsSelene after I double checked the urls.

Might want to look back over my post in case you read before I fixed them.


But yeah, I'm with you on this. Originally, I was actually thinking it'd be a close fight. Zopzop has actually had the reverse effect of what he intended. The more I argue for Selene, the more I think she might destroy Sersi.
Originally posted by zopzop

WTF is that art? Give me the comic name and issue #.


Who!? Aside from this Magneto/Doom fight which seems suspect as phuck. I want to look at the issue myself.
Doctor Doom and the Masters of Evil #4

It was a goofy mini, but kinda fun. A little heavy on the Doom wanking, but hey, it's Doom's comic. I thought Mysterio and crew had charm though.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Doctor Doom and the Masters of Evil #4

It was a goofy mini, but kinda fun in spots. A little heavy on the Doom wanking, but hey, it's Doom's comic.
ROFLMAO. Is it even canon?

Pathetic.

As a homosexual male Zop has faced a lot of discrimination in his day, but all that is nothing compared to being a Sersi fan

Originally posted by zopzop
ROFLMAO. Is it even canon?

Pathetic.
You're right. That would explain the goofiness I was mentioning. I didn't think it was an alternate reality when I read it though.

Is it non-canon? I honestly never bothered to look it up.

Not that the showing is necessary here. Sersi still runs into the same problem Leo and I keep mentioning.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
As a homosexual male Zop has faced a lot of discrimination in his day, but all that is nothing compared to being a Sersi fan
Standing up for a fellow NYker! Phuck the haters.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Not that the showing is necessary here. Sersi still runs into the same problem Leo and I keep mentioning.
https://i.postimg.cc/0Q8Hf3d7/giphy.gif
You can believe what you want but Sersi has gone up against far more impressive opponents and Sersi's power level sh|ts all over Selene's. I'm still waiting for scans of Selene doing anything impressive.

I knew I wasn't crazy. Doctor Doom and the Masters of Evil is canon. It was just done in a lighthearted style so younger audiences could enjoy it. It was pretty solid overall though. Managed to get Doom right.

Tobin wrote some of the Marvel Adventures line, so some folks got confused. He was asked in an interview how it felt writing for the mainstream Marvel universe when he wrote the series.
The lineups for some of the teams involved differs from the Adventures universe too.

Additionally, he confirmed it in a tweet.
https://postimg.cc/JDBjDXDJ

So Selene did slap Magneto and Doom around.

Originally posted by StyleTime
I knew I wasn't crazy. Doctor Doom and the Masters of Evil is canon. It was just done in a lighthearted style so younger audiences could enjoy it. It was pretty solid overall though. Managed to get Doom right.

Tobin wrote some of the Marvel Adventures line, so some folks got confused. He was asked in an interview how it felt writing for the mainstream Marvel universe when he wrote the series.
The lineups for some of the teams involved differs from the Adventures universe too.

Additionally, he confirmed it in a tweet.
https://postimg.cc/JDBjDXDJ

So Selene did slap Magneto and Doom around.
Even the writer doesn't know if it's canon anymore. According to the Marvel Universe Appendix site (Marvel uses this for all their Handbook entries)
https://i.postimg.cc/gxD4WTfw/image.jpg
it's not listed under Selene's canon appearances and that site has all her canon appearances up to late 2010. The Doom storyline was published in 2009, if it was canon it would be there.

It's a glorified wiki. Seriously, you can, right now, apply to be on the team. That appendix is done by regular people with dayjobs. It's impressive, and a great resource to start from, but it's by no means comprehensive, which they admit to themselves. They even list corrections and additions on the pages.

And there's a reason we don't typically use handbooks here, as the information isn't always accurate. They said Kimura can phase...

If you think it's been retconned, you'll need to point to the comic or event that did so. Some people overlooking an already obscure mini series doesn't make it non-canon.

Originally posted by StyleTime
It's a glorified wiki. Seriously, you can, right now, apply to be on the team. That appendix is done by regular people with dayjobs. It's impressive, and a great resource to start from, but it's by no means comprehensive, which they admit to themselves. They even list corrections and additions on the pages.

And there's a reason we don't typically use handbooks here, as the information isn't always accurate. They said Kimura can phase...

If you think it's been retconned, you'll need to point to the comic or event that did so. Some people overlooking an already obscure mini series doesn't make it non-canon.
Glorified wiki my @$$, did you not see the Official Handbook Entry page from Marvel that I posted? Marvel itself uses the site as a reference for their handbook entries.

The Doom and Masters of Evil events are not in Selene's entry and they cover her canon appearances up till 2010.

Also you posted links to a writer's comments that are viewed exactly as Handbook entries are here on the forum.

Originally posted by zopzop
Glorified wiki my @$$, did you not see the Official Handbook Entry page from Marvel that I posted? Marvel itself uses the site as a reference for their handbook entries.

The Doom and Masters of Evil events are not in Selene's entry and they cover her canon appearances up till 2010.

Also you posted links to a writer's comments that are viewed exactly as Handbook entries are here on the forum.
That doesn't conflict with what I said. No one has full knowledge of an entire universe just on hand. They reference the site because, like most wikis, it's a great starting point. It's not infallible, and they have also had to, literally, issue corrections later because the information isn't 100% complete or accurate.

They cover the appearances they know of. 2010 is the simply the latest appearance the author can point to. It doesn't mean he nailed all her previous appearances, which, again, they admit to.

Writer's comments are irrelevant when they contradict feats or events of a comic, which Tobin's doesn't. If he said Selene solo'd the Avengers beforehand, then yeah, we'd disregard his statement. That was never shown on panel, so we can't use it. Tobin stating it is canon is just him stating a fact. If you think it is no longer in continuity, then cool, show me the retcon.

Are we going to assume everything absent from that wiki is suddenly non-canon?

Originally posted by StyleTime
That doesn't conflict with what I said. No one has full knowledge of an entire universe just on hand. They reference the site because, like most wikis, it's a great starting point. It's not infallible, and they have also had to, literally, issue corrections later because the information isn't 100% complete or accurate.

They cover the appearances they know of. 2010 is the simply the latest appearance the author can point to. It doesn't mean he nailed all her previous appearances, which, again, they admit to.

Writer's comments are irrelevant when they contradict feats or events of a comic, which Tobin's doesn't. If he said Selene solo'd the Avengers beforehand, then yeah, we'd disregard his statement. That was never shown on panel, so we can't use it. Tobin stating it is canon is just him stating a fact. If you think it is no longer in continuity, then cool, show me the retcon.

Are we going to assume everything absent from that wiki is suddenly non-canon?
That story involved a major villain, Doom, wishing away his insecurities or whatever and it would be a pivotal point in his character history (assuming it even happened in mainstream Marvel continuity). How could it NOT be in any of the handbook entries of the major players in that story arc? They constantly update their site and yet it's still not in her canon entry (even though they have appearances that post date that showing). Wonder why?

It's entirely possible they weren't aware of it, similar to most folks here. Or they confused it with Tobin's Marvel Adventures work, which has also happened. The last handbook featured additions/corrections to old entries, so they don't catch everything.

I can't pinpoint the exact reason without talking to them directly, but there's explanations other than a silent retcon.