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I rate him right above Vader.

I will be monitoring this thread very closely.

If there is any hint that it is heading in the same direction as the other Snoke threads, it will be closed no questions asked.

I feel like he could/should be above Sidious' apprentices. But I'm not sure if he's on par with Sheev himself.

I would rate him around Krayt.

For sure above Vader though.

A glass cannon. His force knowledge more than likely is superior to Palpatines since he does know the secrets Palps was looking for, but if he needs his guards to protect him since he can't fight he more than likely can't apply that power in a 1 on 1 confrontation. It also connects to Serkis statements about him being very powerful but very vulnerable at the same time.

Originally posted by The Merchant
A glass cannon. His force knowledge more than likely is superior to Palpatines since he does know the secrets Palps was looking for, but if he needs his guards to protect him since he can't fight he more than likely can't apply that power in a 1 on 1 confrontation. It also connects to Serkis statements about him being very powerful but very vulnerable at the same time. Palpatine also had guards, so how exactly does this argument fly?

Again with knowledge, Vader had more knowledge than Luke, but Luke still won.

Palpatines guards were there just to feign weakness, he doesn't actually need them. Snoke however does according to the TLJ visual dictionary, they fight for him since he can't fight himself.

Strongest Force user in canon.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Palpatines guards were there just to feign weakness, he doesn't actually need them. Snoke however does according to the TLJ visual dictionary, they fight for him since he can't fight himself. Proof Palpatine's guards were just to "feign weakness"?

Snoke "can't fight for himself" and needs guards to do it for him? So if five tusken raiders storm Snoke's throne room, he can't defend himself and gets killed by them in the absence of his guards?

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Proof Palpatine's guards were just to "feign weakness"?

Snoke "can't fight for himself" and needs guards to do it for him? So if five tusken raiders storm Snoke's throne room, he can't defend himself and gets killed by them in the absence of his guards? Did Palpatine ever use his guards when it was revealed he also had powers and wasn't just Sheev the boy seducer?

Also Snoke seemed powerful in the Force but there's nothing showing he's on the level of Sheevatine. Comfortably below Sheev but above at least 2 Plo Koons worth of Force power would be a good start.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Did Palpatine ever use his guards when it was revealed he also had powers and wasn't just Sheev the boy seducer?

Also Snoke seemed powerful in the Force but there's nothing showing he's on the level of Sheevatine. Comfortably below Sheev but above at least 2 Plo Koons worth of Force power would be a good start. Not that we see, but it doesn't answer my question. Is there proof he only had guards to feign weakness? Who was he feigning weakness to?

You're positing that Snoke is more powerful than two Plo Koons but comfortably below Darth Sidious. This would then mean, presumably, that Snoke's guards are also above two Plo Koons, even more comfortably (because why have guards if you are even better than your guards?).

Can you substantiate any of this, or is it just based on a feeling? I am genuinely intrigued now.

Snoke can't fight for himself in the respect that he has no physical weaponry, this is why the guards are there; any attacker would have to get through his guards physically to get to Snoke and in that timeframe he could TK or FL them but any Force user thats strong enough to get to him with a lightsaber could feasibly cut him down a lot easier than if Snoke had a saber as well obviously

Originally posted by relentless1
Snoke can't fight for himself in the respect that he has no physical weaponry, this is why the guards are there; any attacker would have to get through his guards physically to get to Snoke and in that timeframe he could TK or FL them but any Force user thats strong enough to get to him with a lightsaber could feasibly cut him down a lot easier than if Snoke had a saber as well obviously So you believe the guards compliment Snoke rather than simply compensate for him? That would seem to make sense and I see no reason why we cannot apply the same logic to Sidious. One would need to confront his guards first before reaching Sidious himself.

Originally posted by Unbowed
Strongest Force user in canon.

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Not that we see, but it doesn't answer my question. Is there proof he only had guards to feign weakness? Who was he feigning weakness to?

You're positing that Snoke is more powerful than two Plo Koons but comfortably below Darth Sidious. This would then mean, presumably, that Snoke's guards are also above two Plo Koons, even more comfortably (because why have guards if you are even better than your guards?).

Can you substantiate any of this, or is it just based on a feeling? I am genuinely intrigued now. I never said Sheev had guards to feign weakness, I asked the question of if he ever actually used them in place of himself doing the dirty work when someone confronts him.

And with Sheev we know he doesn't need them, with Snoke the guy is a cripple so he would have more use out of them than Sheev. Maybe both don't "need them", but Snoke's are more certainly equipped to actually protect him (lightsaber resistant armor and weapons) than Sheev's are.


Like everything else on Snoke, it's based on feelings. Snoke's raw force powers do not mean his Guards get raised to the same level when they can do something that Snoke can't do; and that is engage in close quarters combat. Snoke could be 10 Sheevs in raw power and it still wouldn't raise the abilities of the Guards by proxy.
That was also just a general thought about the raw power of Snoke than an addendum on the Guard question since we know, or think we know he can't do lightsaber combat. He's obviously powerful in the Force so that's really the only thing we can base him on.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
I never said Sheev had guards to feign weakness, I asked the question of if he ever actually used them in place of himself doing the dirty work when someone confronts him.

And with Sheev we know he doesn't need them, with Snoke the guy is a cripple so he would have more use out of them than Sheev. Maybe both don't "need them", but Snokes are more certainly equipped to actually protect him (lightsaber resistant armor and weapons) than Sheev's are.


Like everything else on Snoke, it's based on feelings. Snoke's raw force powers do not mean his Guards get raised to the same level when they can do something that Snoke can't do; and that is engage in close quarters combat. Snoke could be 10 Sheevs in raw power and it still wouldn't raise the abilities of the Guards by proxy. Let's back up a moment. I originally said (to someone other than yourself) "Proof Palpatine's guards were just to "feign weakness"?" - you began responding to me from this point on. I said your response didn't answer my question. I answered your question, no, we have not seen Sidious employ his guards. You did not answer my question, despite engaging me in rhetoric.

How do we "know" Sheev doesn't need them? Doesn't need them for what exactly, and what is your evidence? He clearly needs them for something, unless he simply has them as extremely expensive, well trained sentient decorations. That Snoke's guards might be better does not mean he needs them any more than Sidious needs his own guards. That's like saying Snoke "needs" better military assets, ships, technology, soldiers and so on. It's less a matter of "need" and more a matter of "well, a better army is more preferable than to have a worse army", and in the same way, it is more preferable to have better guards than it is to have worse guards.

So like our other fine man said, the guards may simply compliment Snoke rather than only compensating for him. It is preferable to have guards than to have no guards at all.

Sidious guards attacked yoda or tried to and failed. This Sidious wank needs to stop. All guards are there to protect. That is their function.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vrl3im25428/Voa7OZWcYiI/AAAAAAAAIyw/mgN6MDbwPns/s1600/yoda-guards-star-wars-prequels-sm-1430729021.gif

An astute point, "quanchi112".

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
An astute point, "quanchi112". I do believe Snoke had the superior guards but both sets of guards provided the same function at the discretion of their master.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I do believe Snoke had the superior guards but both sets of guards provided the same function at the discretion of their master. Are you referring to any specific sets of guards, the guards on average, or not even the guards themselves but simply their equipment? And can you provide evidence for this claim, or is it just based on your feelings?

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Are you referring to any specific sets of guards, the guards on average, or not even the guards themselves but simply their equipment? And can you provide evidence for this claim, or is it just based on your feelings? Praetorian guards as opposed to the royal guard. Red vs red. The fight against Kylo and Rey as compared to Yodas easy dismissal of the royal guards. Praetorian showed how capable they were against two extremely powerful force users. No evidence in the films of the royal guard being as capable in combat.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Praetorian guards as opposed to the royal guard. Red vs red. The fight against Kylo and Rey as compared to Yodas easy dismissal of the royal guards. Praetorian showed how capable they were against two extremely powerful force users. No evidence in the films of the royal guard being as capable in combat. This implies that Yoda and the Kylo-Rey team share a level of parity to make this comparison valid. Is there any evidence for this?

There is no evidence for the royal guards being as capable, true, but there is no evidence that they are not as capable. It is an unknown, unless the aforementioned comparison checks out.

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Proof Palpatine's guards were just to "feign weakness"?

Snoke "can't fight for himself" and needs guards to do it for him? So if five tusken raiders storm Snoke's throne room, he can't defend himself and gets killed by them in the absence of his guards?

Idk abought feigning weakness but the fact Vader and Sidious were sith was NOT known through tout the empire, he did trust the imperial guards enough to see him use the force.

Also....in the book lords of the sith, while Vader and two imperial guards were struggling to fight a nest of indigenous beasts, Sidious was laughing his ass off killing them effortlessly.

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
This implies that Yoda and the Kylo-Rey team share a level of parity to make this comparison valid. Is there any evidence for this?

There is no evidence for the royal guards being as capable, true, but there is no evidence that they are not as capable. It is an unknown, unless the aforementioned comparison checks out. Well I saw even yoda required the aid of Kenobi against clone troopers. I see no reason to believe yoda could solo these praetorians alone based off Yodas film history.

They have superior showings so more evidence leads us to believe they are superior than anyone not even citing the Star Wars visual dictionary references of their formidability.

It's very simple.

Snoke has a hard time walking around due to injures sustained, this is confirmed. So his Guards do his melee fighting for him. So his Guards are needed in that aspect.

Palps can fight both melee and Force combat, this is shown. So he doesn't need his Guards, I'm pretty sure this is also noted somewhere in the current canon as it was before the wipe too. Sure his Guards are functional and can do fighting for him, but they aren't needed.

Ok...so we got that cleared up? Now back to the thread at hand.

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Idk abought feigning weakness but the fact Vader and Sidious were sith was NOT known through tout the empire, he did trust the imperial guards enough to see him use the force.

Also....in the book lords of the sith, while Vader and two imperial guards were struggling to fight a nest of indigenous beasts, Sidious was laughing his ass off killing them effortlessly. Again, this does not satisfy the criteria I asked for, which you rightly acknowledge.

Would you be kind enough to post the specific excerpt from Lords of the Sith you are referring to, that we may review it and draw a conclusion on the utility of Sidious' guardsmen?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
It's very simple.

Snoke has a hard time walking around due to injures sustained, this is confirmed. So his Guards do his melee fighting for him. So his Guards are needed in that aspect.
Just as Yoda has a hard time walking with a cane due to old age. He did not have to melee fight since his powers were adequate for his defense. At no point did he deploy his guards when she became aggressive. He waved them off.

Yes, Sidious can fight in melee and there is no evidence Snoke can but there is none he cannot draw upon the force to amp his physical deficiencies like yoda has.

Sidious felt confident in that situation in dismissing them due to his manipulation and Vader being there in defense of him. We see Vader block a saber strike that would have most likely killed him. So in a situation that was not under his control against overwhelming odds he would deploy his guards just like any other intelligent leader when they believed their life was in jeopardy.

Depends on the amount and skill of the guards.

Originally posted by BestDebaterEver
Let's back up a moment. I originally said (to someone other than yourself) "Proof Palpatine's guards were just to "feign weakness"?" - you began responding to me from this point on. I said your response didn't answer my question. I answered your question, no, we have not seen Sidious employ his guards. You did not answer my question, despite engaging me in rhetoric.

How do we "know" Sheev doesn't need them? Doesn't need them for what exactly, and what is your evidence? He clearly needs them for something, unless he simply has them as extremely expensive, well trained sentient decorations. That Snoke's guards might be better does not mean he needs them any more than Sidious needs his own guards. That's like saying Snoke "needs" better military assets, ships, technology, soldiers and so on. It's less a matter of "need" and more a matter of "well, a better army is more preferable than to have a worse army", and in the same way, it is more preferable to have better guards than it is to have worse guards.

So like our other fine man said, the guards may simply compliment Snoke rather than only compensating for him. It is preferable to have guards than to have no guards at all. I didn't ask the question to substantiate his point, I asked the question because I was wondering if Sheev ever threw them at his enemies instead of engaging himself. Your point seemed the most relevant to that topic.
I don't think he's feigning weakness (unless we go into his powers being a secret topic), but I don't think he needs them for personal protection. Them existing isn't a reflection on Sheev's personal power, or an inability on his part. Snoke would have more use for them in that aspect.


Because we've seen Sheev directly engage in solo threats without Guards against beings that would decimate his Guards. Even in the gif Quan posted, Yoda defeated Sheev's guards with a wrist flick while Sheev fought evenly or close against Yoda in close quarters combat and with the Force.
And he doesn't need them to protect him, obviously, that's what I mean. Anyone who actually presents a threat to Sheev would obliterate the Guard, but that doesn't mean he has to deal with every threat personally. We have seen them try and filter out people like Doctor Aphra and they are uber trained. In that sense they are essentially bouncers. I'm not sure if Disney has turned them into Assassins yet, but that is a possible use as well.


Very possible, I never said otherwise. However you can't deny that Snoke's Guards are better equipped to protect him than Sheev's are. In terms of combat, Snoke's Guards are created to shell up a potential weakness of his, whereas Sheev's are useless (in comparison) as he has no weaknesses in a certain area. So when you bring up the Guard angle, it's more relevant to Snoke than Sheev and you can't simply red herring the attention away from Snoke by mentioning Sheev, is all.

SW farts on wieners.

He may be right but he's also not proof of anything. He's an authority on not sourcing your claims.

I swear there's a quote out there basically saying the same thing, but I don't have it, so I'm not going to say it 100 percent exists.

Gaylad might have it though. If he doesn't have it, then I dunno.
Things would be so much easier if SW content was as easy to find as comics. It's easier to read through 100 comics to find two words than to find dl links for random books. But that's the pirate life for me, and may be the reason I never jumped head first into this Star Wars fad.

I don’t think the ones Yoda ***** slapped were the same as the later royal guards who went though intense training.

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
I don’t think the ones Yoda ***** slapped were the same as the later royal guards who went though intense training.

It doesn't matter. Also we don't have anything on their training in Canon, other than out of the millions of troops that they were the most skilled. Trained in various forms of combat.

But it's freaking Yoda, so....either way he wouldn't have any issues.

Eh, are people really trying to pretend like Palpatine...f*cking Palpatine...'needed' the Royal Guards to do his melee fighting for him, like Snoke did? Jesus christ.

facepalm

Originally posted by Galan007
Eh, are people really trying to pretend like Palpatine...f*cking Palpatine...'needed' the Royal Guards to do his melee fighting for him, like Snoke did? Jesus christ.

facepalm

Lol

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just as Yoda has a hard time walking with a cane due to old age.


No Dummy, its more like Vader who needs his mechanical suit to fight.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No Dummy, its more like Vader who needs his mechanical suit to fight. Vader needs his suit to live, lol. I gave my opinion so just accept it. It will not change but I will not argue Snoke uses a saber in a versus until I see evidence. I am extremely consistent.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Vader needs his suit to live, lol.


And to engage in Saber combat Dummy!

There is Zero comparison to Yoda here. Absolute Zero.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
And to engage in Saber combat Dummy!

There is Zero comparison to Yoda here. Absolute Zero. Of course since he cannot fight if he is dead. Must I really hold your hand? Both physically are old and cannot demonstrate normal gait on their own. You are free to disagree but yoda looks like a hobbies old hunchbag when he does not use the force. My opinion will not change and my reasoning is sound. Feel free to disagree but you thought Rey was going to own Snoke so it is safe to see you are out of touch with Disney Star Wars.

In all seriousness, Snoke is probably a Dooku level Force user, with zero lightsaber capabilities.

He is crippled. He needs a cane to walk without the force. Sure he is great when he uses the force but not without it. If you read my posts you would already know my position. I will not argue Snoke will use a saber despite my belief with the force he could because there is no evidence at this point in time.

He needs guards to fight, so how can he battle with a saber?

Explain

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
He needs guards to fight, so how can he battle with a saber?

Explain You made the claim he cannot use a light saber so unless you have evidence to support said claim you concede.

Originally posted by Trocity
In all seriousness, Snoke is probably a Dooku level Force user, with zero lightsaber capabilities. That's giving Snoke credit.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Vader needs his suit to live, lol. I gave my opinion so just accept it. It will not change but I will not argue Snoke uses a saber in a versus until I see evidence. I am extremely consistent.


No Dummy, Vader doesnt need Mehanical limbs to live.

You think ROTS Anakin has a mechanical arm to live

It was to fight you brain dead turd.

Above Vader, below Dooku.

Originally posted by RealistRacism
Above Vader, below Dooku. You place Dooku above Vader?

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is crippled. He needs a cane to walk without the force. Sure he is great when he uses the force but not without it. If you read my posts you would already know my position. I will not argue Snoke will use a saber despite my belief with the force he could because there is no evidence at this point in time.


Quit making desperate excuses for Snoke.

He has Zero Saber and physical feats, and canon has explained to us why.

Quit trying to enforce your own head canon. Yours is fanfic.


Yoda is old, not crippled. Vader was crippled and compensated with mechanical limbs. This isnt difficult to understand, so stop being butthurt and accept facts.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No Dummy, Vader doesnt need Mehanical limbs to live.

You think ROTS Anakin has a mechanical arm to live

It was to fight you brain dead turd. Without the suit he dies. Not the limbs but the entire suit. It was to survive and maintain life function. We see plenty of weak Star Wars bodies users not try to protect their old bodies in suits like Yoda. Try to grasp my point not what you think my point is.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Quit making desperate excuses for Snoke.

He has Zero Saber and physical feats, and canon has explained to us why.

Quit trying to enforce your own head canon. Yours is fanfic.


Yoda is old, not crippled. Vader was crippled and compensated with mechanical limbs. This isnt difficult to understand, so stop being butthurt and accept facts. Why would he use a saber when he did not need to? Did Sidious use a saber in rotj? No, because for what he intended his powers were fine until Vader turned on him but he never saw that coming.

I explained my reading and gave a Star Wars example to show you I am using critical thinking.


Yoda walks worse than Snoke did in TLJ. Yoda needed a cane Vader needed a suit to survive let alone fight. Vader was worse but both are crippled. My opinion remains the same your inability to deal with it continues.

Originally posted by Trocity
In all seriousness, Snoke is probably a Dooku level Force user, with zero lightsaber capabilities.
You cannot possibly be that dense. Snoke should be miles above Dooku's level based on scaling alone.

Dooku was considered a great prodigy by everyone including Yoda, and one of the most powerful masters in the order's history, and he gets much stronger as a Sith.

Then Anakin appears, and every Force user he ever meets creams their pants at his potential. In the 3 years of constant conflict between AOTC and ROTS he goes from the level of an above average knight to thoroughly trouncing Dooku. It takes Anakin just few years to achieve more than Dooku did in a lifetime.

Fast forward 20 years and Luke appears, and he's an even greater prodigy than Anakin. In ESB with just a few weeks of training he is able to hold his own against Vader, himself one of the strongest Sith in history. Everyone knows that 80% of the Emperor's power quote. By the time ROTJ rolls around Luke can completely overpower and defeat Vader, and he's basically just at the start of his career.

Then Kylo and Rey appear, and their potential and raw power absolutely terrifies Luke, who had met both Vader and Palpatine. Each successive generation of Chosen Ones grows much stronger at a much quicker pace. And Snoke can utterly dominate the latest generation with just a few hand gestures.

You know how Sidious lusted over Anakin's potential? Well Snoke couldn't give a shit about Rey's potential, he decides to just kill her. In the book he thinks to himself that she could grow amazingly powerful, but he just doesn't need it. He treats Kylo like a dog. That's because he considers himself to be above their level.

Snoke is above Jedi and Sith. All evidence points to it, people just don't like to admit it.

Maul Level

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Maul Level Reasoning?

I rate Snoke based on his feats!
I believe he is Darth Bane level!

Originally posted by Unbowed
You cannot possibly be that dense. Snoke should be miles above Dooku's level based on scaling alone.

Dooku was considered a great prodigy by everyone including Yoda, and one of the most powerful masters in the order's history, and he gets much stronger as a Sith.

Then Anakin appears, and every Force user he ever meets creams their pants at his potential. In the 3 years of constant conflict between AOTC and ROTS he goes from the level of an above average knight to thoroughly trouncing Dooku. It takes Anakin just few years to achieve more than Dooku did in a lifetime.

Fast forward 20 years and Luke appears, and he's an even greater prodigy than Anakin. In ESB with just a few weeks of training he is able to hold his own against Vader, himself one of the strongest Sith in history. Everyone knows that 80% of the Emperor's power quote. By the time ROTJ rolls around Luke can completely overpower and defeat Vader, and he's basically just at the start of his career.

Then Kylo and Rey appear, and their potential and raw power absolutely terrifies Luke, who had met both Vader and Palpatine. Each successive generation of Chosen Ones grows much stronger at a much quicker pace. And Snoke can utterly dominate the latest generation with just a few hand gestures.

You know how Sidious lusted over Anakin's potential? Well Snoke couldn't give a shit about Rey's potential, he decides to just kill her. In the book he thinks to himself that she could grow amazingly powerful, but he just doesn't need it. He treats Kylo like a dog. That's because he considers himself to be above their level.

Snoke is above Jedi and Sith. All evidence points to it, people just don't like to admit it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Same imo applies for Snoke.



Your fanfic has no place here.

Youve lost the Snoke vs Sheev debate. Was never really much of a debate to begin with.

Originally posted by Unbowed
Then Kylo and Rey appear, and their potential and raw power absolutely terrifies Luke, who had met both Vader and Palpatine. Each successive generation of Chosen Ones grows much stronger at a much quicker pace. And Snoke can utterly dominate the latest generation with just a few hand gestures.
Ehhh, this line of reasoning ignores a lot of context. Potential is nice but potential =/= practical application. As you yourself just noted, Anakin had the potential to be the strongest force user in history but he was still casually destroyed by Dooku the first time they fought. Potential has to be forged into something with training. Rey might have astounded Luke with her potential but we have little evidence that she could consciously harness that power by the time she confronted Snoke. She had after all received barely even just three lessons from a master.

If the cornerstone of your argument for Snoke's power level relies on his domination of Rey, you should probably rethink your stance.

Potential is irrelevant if it is primarily untapped. I mean, TPM Anakin still had the greatest confirmed *potential* in the entire damn mythos... But that gargantuan reservoir of unharnessed potential doesn't mean he wouldn't have been finger-flick-pwned by even the lowliest Padawans in the mythos, however.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Ehhh, this line of reasoning ignores a lot of context. Potential is nice but potential =/= practical application. As you yourself just noted, Anakin had the potential to be the strongest force user in history but he was still casually destroyed by Dooku the first time they fought. Potential has to be forged into something with training. Rey might have astounded Luke with her potential but we have little evidence that she could consciously harness that power by the time she confronted Snoke. She had after all received barely even just three lessons from a master.

If the cornerstone of your argument for Snoke's power level relies on his domination of Rey, you should probably rethink your stance.
Originally posted by Galan007


Potential is irrelevant if it is primarily untapped. I mean, TPM Anakin still had the greatest confirmed *potential* in the entire damn mythos... But that gargantuan reservoir of unharnessed potential doesn't mean he wouldn't have been finger-flick-pwned by even the lowliest Padawans in the mythos, however.
Excepting that even without training that potential manifests itself in moments of extreme physical or emotional duress. An adolescent Kylo almost killed Luke when fearing for his life, Rey managed to hold her own against Kylo and put Luke on his ass when angered, in the EU an infant Galen Marek snatched Vader's saber from him.

The point I'm making is, why didn't a much more powerful Kylo manage to do the same to Snoke in a fit of anger? Here is Snoke twisting a knife into Kylo's psyche, exposing and mocking Kylo's inner most fears and insecurities until Kylo loses control and lashes out. Yet all he manages to do is to be knocked on his ass in a split second.

Same with Rey. Even a hint of her unleashing her powers is enough to scare Luke, yet when Snoke is torturing her and all her friends are getting decimated she is completely helpless. Luke can barely handle her but against Snoke she is a babe in the woods.

The very fact that the director chose to kill him by subterfuge and have the film's set piece battle to be against the guards shows he was meant to be way, way above them, even as a team.

The quotes about the GFFA's knowledge of the Force coming from the unknown regions, Snoke being from there, and Snoke knowing secrets Sidious sought just seals the deal.

It points to the fact that the modern Jedi and Sith traditions are flawed, their understanding of the Force is incomplete, and their teachings were diluted with the passing of thousands of years. Basically, Snoke was there at the very source, while Luke, Yoda, Sidious and the rest are working with whatever knowledge filtered down throughout the millenia.

The Jedi and Sith are like the guys in the Early Middle Ages pouring over the scraps of knowledge that survived the fall of the Roman Empire, meanwhile Snoke is like someone who traveled forward through time straight from the Senate.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Your fanfic has no place here.

Youve lost the Snoke vs Sheev debate. Was never really much of a debate to begin with. Iyo not mine. Supported my reasoning you can continue to believe Kylo is more powerful and Rey killed him. You tend to ignore canon quite often tbh.

Originally posted by Unbowed
Excepting that even without training that potential manifests itself in moments of extreme physical or emotional duress. An adolescent Kylo almost killed Luke when fearing for his life, Rey managed to hold her own against Kylo and put Luke on his ass when angered, in the EU an infant Galen Marek snatched Vader's saber from him.

The point I'm making is, why didn't a much more powerful Kylo manage to do the same to Snoke in a fit of anger? Here is Snoke twisting a knife into Kylo's psyche, exposing and mocking Kylo's inner most fears and insecurities until Kylo loses control and lashes out. Yet all he manages to do is to be knocked on his ass in a split second.

Same with Rey. Even a hint of her unleashing her powers is enough to scare Luke, yet when Snoke is torturing her and all her friends are getting decimated she is completely helpless. Luke can barely handle her but against Snoke she is a babe in the woods.

The very fact that the director chose to kill him by subterfuge and have the film's set piece battle to be against the guards shows he was meant to be way, way above them, even as a team.

The quotes about the GFFA's knowledge of the Force coming from the unknown regions, Snoke being from there, and Snoke knowing secrets Sidious sought just seals the deal.

It points to the fact that the modern Jedi and Sith traditions are flawed, their understanding of the Force is incomplete, and their teachings were diluted with the passing of thousands of years. Basically, Snoke was there at the very source, while Luke, Yoda, Sidious and the rest are working with whatever knowledge filtered down throughout the millenia.

The Jedi and Sith are like the guys in the Early Middle Ages pouring over the scraps of knowledge that survived the fall of the Roman Empire, meanwhile Snoke is like someone who traveled forward through time straight from the Senate. This guy gets it.

All that says to me was that Luke was a chump

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
All that says to me was that Luke was a chump Luke was more powerful than Vader and who the emperor sought. He also turned Vader from the darkness.

Than what was the point of saying that?

Originally posted by Unbowed
Excepting that even without training that potential manifests itself in moments of extreme physical or emotional duress. An adolescent Kylo almost killed Luke when fearing for his life, Rey managed to hold her own against Kylo and put Luke on his ass when angered, in the EU an infant Galen Marek snatched Vader's saber from him.

The point I'm making is, why didn't a much more powerful Kylo manage to do the same to Snoke in a fit of anger? Here is Snoke twisting a knife into Kylo's psyche, exposing and mocking Kylo's inner most fears and insecurities until Kylo loses control and lashes out. Yet all he manages to do is to be knocked on his ass in a split second.

Same with Rey. Even a hint of her unleashing her powers is enough to scare Luke, yet when Snoke is torturing her and all her friends are getting decimated she is completely helpless. Luke can barely handle her but against Snoke she is a babe in the woods.

The very fact that the director chose to kill him by subterfuge and have the film's set piece battle to be against the guards shows he was meant to be way, way above them, even as a team.

The quotes about the GFFA's knowledge of the Force coming from the unknown regions, Snoke being from there, and Snoke knowing secrets Sidious sought just seals the deal.

It points to the fact that the modern Jedi and Sith traditions are flawed, their understanding of the Force is incomplete, and their teachings were diluted with the passing of thousands of years. Basically, Snoke was there at the very source, while Luke, Yoda, Sidious and the rest are working with whatever knowledge filtered down throughout the millenia.

The Jedi and Sith are like the guys in the Early Middle Ages pouring over the scraps of knowledge that survived the fall of the Roman Empire, meanwhile Snoke is like someone who traveled forward through time straight from the Senate. Kylo almost killed a Luke that was actively not trying to fight him, and was by his own admission emotionally compromised and barely in control of himself. Rey held her own against a Kylo who was bleeding profusely after having been shot in the stomach by a weapon that, 30 minutes earlier, was launching grown men in battle armor 10 feet into the air- a Kylo whom we're told in the very next film was also emotionally compromised and not in control of himself during the fight.

You're relying alot on interpretation and presumptions in fights that have a lot of unique circumstances involved within them.

facepalm

Originally posted by Darth Thor
facepalm


https://66.media.tumblr.com/32ce5790001e110f4a5003b25f05fe87/tumblr_p5jgho6Dod1r9xs4ro1_500.gif

Dont make me pull out Surturs meme of dead Snoke. That one is truly embarrassing.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Dont make me pull out Surturs meme of dead Snoke. That one is truly embarrassing.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-V7AmzVo9Z2w/Wr-I2UmEPFI/AAAAAAAAAW4/mS4lGAcplBQJZuKPpq0ezz-Xbw15FZpvgCJoC/w424-h318-n/001

And youre just a throwaway villain.

Like literally thrown away, like garbage.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
And youre just a throwaway villain.

Like literally thrown away, like garbage. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d6/73/93/d67393b0eb8b966613d9a0fccb52f377.gif

Get on topic.

http://metamedianews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/tumblr_p108zzwzrp1v0owm7o1_1280.gif

Originally posted by quanchi112
http://metamedianews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/tumblr_p108zzwzrp1v0owm7o1_1280.gif So much hate...

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
So much hate... I am balanced. Anyways my opinions on this topic have been stated. Everyone knows my position.

Yes, a position that cannot be budged.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
Yes, a position that cannot be budged. At this point without further evidence very true.